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Re: Guns in Airports [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Is travelling with ammo banned as well?

Pure ignorance question, is ammo dangerous without the gun?

Even an empty shell casing will get you an immediate appointment with the TSA supervisor.

************************
#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012
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Re: Guns in Airports [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
len wrote:
I have lost my swiss army knife multiple times because I forget I have it get to the xray machine and when I am emptying my pockets its too late, into the bin it goes. I would suspect some of these people just forgot they had the pistol strapped on or in the bag. Risk of having pistol and being injured by it vs successful self defense likely doesn't favor self defense as you say.


I'm sure that it's true that lots of these people just forgot they had their weapon on their person or in their bag. However, that's like saying, "I don't have evil intentions, I'm just too stupid or careless with my deadly registered firearm to keep track of where it is."

Seriously? Forgot you had a pistol in your duffel bag? Forgot you were wearing a pistol? If you can't keep track of your firearm, I'm not sure you deserve to keep one.

I completely agree. Also, if people are too dumb or stupid to drive a car without getting into an accident they shouldn't be allowed to have one. DUI? Confiscate car and no license forever. Texting while driving? Same thing. Driving your Tesla 10mph over the speed limit? Gone forever.

Methinks that you are viewing this example differently because a firearm is involved. I don't think you should.

People are dumb with their responsibilities sometimes...err...a lot.


----------------------------------------------------------------

My training
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Re: Guns in Airports [stal] [ In reply to ]
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stal wrote:
slowguy wrote:
len wrote:
I have lost my swiss army knife multiple times because I forget I have it get to the xray machine and when I am emptying my pockets its too late, into the bin it goes. I would suspect some of these people just forgot they had the pistol strapped on or in the bag. Risk of having pistol and being injured by it vs successful self defense likely doesn't favor self defense as you say.


I'm sure that it's true that lots of these people just forgot they had their weapon on their person or in their bag. However, that's like saying, "I don't have evil intentions, I'm just too stupid or careless with my deadly registered firearm to keep track of where it is."

Seriously? Forgot you had a pistol in your duffel bag? Forgot you were wearing a pistol? If you can't keep track of your firearm, I'm not sure you deserve to keep one.


I completely agree. Also, if people are too dumb or stupid to drive a car without getting into an accident they shouldn't be allowed to have one. DUI? Confiscate car and no license forever. Texting while driving? Same thing. Driving your Tesla 10mph over the speed limit? Gone forever.

Methinks that you are viewing this example differently because a firearm is involved. I don't think you should.

People are dumb with their responsibilities sometimes...err...a lot.

Except we are not talking about someone having an accident with a gun while using it in a lawful place. We are talking about a device that many states require be locked up and that's mere presence in certain areas is expressly forbidden and illegal.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Guns in Airports [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
stal wrote:
slowguy wrote:
len wrote:
I have lost my swiss army knife multiple times because I forget I have it get to the xray machine and when I am emptying my pockets its too late, into the bin it goes. I would suspect some of these people just forgot they had the pistol strapped on or in the bag. Risk of having pistol and being injured by it vs successful self defense likely doesn't favor self defense as you say.


I'm sure that it's true that lots of these people just forgot they had their weapon on their person or in their bag. However, that's like saying, "I don't have evil intentions, I'm just too stupid or careless with my deadly registered firearm to keep track of where it is."

Seriously? Forgot you had a pistol in your duffel bag? Forgot you were wearing a pistol? If you can't keep track of your firearm, I'm not sure you deserve to keep one.


I completely agree. Also, if people are too dumb or stupid to drive a car without getting into an accident they shouldn't be allowed to have one. DUI? Confiscate car and no license forever. Texting while driving? Same thing. Driving your Tesla 10mph over the speed limit? Gone forever.

Methinks that you are viewing this example differently because a firearm is involved. I don't think you should.

People are dumb with their responsibilities sometimes...err...a lot.

Except we are not talking about someone having an accident with a gun while using it in a lawful place. We are talking about a device that many states require be locked up and that's mere presence in certain areas is expressly forbidden and illegal.

This is how toddlers end up killing people. Amazing that people can be so careless.

Also, most cars are designed for transporation, most guns are designed to kill. Theres a clear reason why they are treated differently, even though both are dangerous.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Guns in Airports [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:


This is how toddlers end up killing people. Amazing that people can be so careless.

Also, most cars are designed for transporation, most guns are designed to kill. Theres a clear reason why they are treated differently, even though both are dangerous.

That's pinko commie talk right there.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Guns in Airports [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:

This is how toddlers end up killing people. Amazing that people can be so careless.

Also, most cars are designed for transporation, most guns are designed to kill. Theres a clear reason why they are treated differently, even though both are dangerous.

I didn't want to engage in hyperbole, but, I almost cited the example of jingling car keys in front of a toddler to distract them or stop them from crying and ask whether it would be fine to do the same with a Glock 19 ...

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Guns in Airports [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
veganerd wrote:

This is how toddlers end up killing people. Amazing that people can be so careless.

Also, most cars are designed for transporation, most guns are designed to kill. Theres a clear reason why they are treated differently, even though both are dangerous.

I didn't want to engage in hyperbole, but, I almost cited the example of jingling car keys in front of a toddler to distract them or stop them from crying and ask whether it would be fine to do the same with a Glock 19 ...

Dude, thats how you raise boys to be men!

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Guns in Airports [stal] [ In reply to ]
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stal wrote:
slowguy wrote:
len wrote:
I have lost my swiss army knife multiple times because I forget I have it get to the xray machine and when I am emptying my pockets its too late, into the bin it goes. I would suspect some of these people just forgot they had the pistol strapped on or in the bag. Risk of having pistol and being injured by it vs successful self defense likely doesn't favor self defense as you say.


I'm sure that it's true that lots of these people just forgot they had their weapon on their person or in their bag. However, that's like saying, "I don't have evil intentions, I'm just too stupid or careless with my deadly registered firearm to keep track of where it is."

Seriously? Forgot you had a pistol in your duffel bag? Forgot you were wearing a pistol? If you can't keep track of your firearm, I'm not sure you deserve to keep one.


I completely agree. Also, if people are too dumb or stupid to drive a car without getting into an accident they shouldn't be allowed to have one. DUI? Confiscate car and no license forever. Texting while driving? Same thing. Driving your Tesla 10mph over the speed limit? Gone forever.

Methinks that you are viewing this example differently because a firearm is involved. I don't think you should.

People are dumb with their responsibilities sometimes...err...a lot.

Yes, people are dumb with their responsibilities. When they're dumb with simple day to day things, thats fine. When they're too dumb or irresponsible to keep track of where their firearms are located, they shouldn't keep firearms.

It's not difficult. It's a weapon. You take it out of your lockbox, take it to the range, shoot, bring it home, clean it, put it away. You don't leave it in a duffle bag for some unspecified amount of time so that you forget it was there and accidentally take it to the airport. If you're carrying on your person, and you're so unaware of it that you forget you're carrying, then you're not paying enough attention, and you're not safe.

If you don't understand this, then I'd suggest you don't take the responsibility of owning and carrying a weapon seriously enough.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Guns in Airports [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Also, most cars are designed for transporation, most guns are designed to kill. Theres a clear reason why they are treated differently, even though both are dangerous.

Of all the guns in the US, how many have actually killed a person? (Not counting military, police, or suicides) vs How many cars have actually killed someone?
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Re: Guns in Airports [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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efernand wrote:
Quote:
Also, most cars are designed for transporation, most guns are designed to kill. Theres a clear reason why they are treated differently, even though both are dangerous.

Of all the guns in the US, how many have actually killed a person? (Not counting military, police, or suicides) vs How many cars have actually killed someone?

I dunno. That doesnt detract from my point though.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Guns in Airports [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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efernand wrote:
Quote:
Also, most cars are designed for transporation, most guns are designed to kill. Theres a clear reason why they are treated differently, even though both are dangerous.

Of all the guns in the US, how many have actually killed a person? (Not counting military, police, or suicides) vs How many cars have actually killed someone?

Why on earth would you exclude militaryx police, or suicide when talking about gun deaths?!? Why not exclude vechicles driven for work too? Then the rates would drop substabtially just like they would with all the guns you want to exclude from the figures.

This covers rates per population, not rates per gun or vehicle.

Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 33,736
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.6



All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 33,594
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.5

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Guns in Airports [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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Just pointing out the fallacy of the guns are designed to (only) kill, since the vast majority don't. And as your stats point out, cars kill as many people as guns, so it seams they are quite adept at killing, so it could be claimed that they are designed to kill, but also happen to function well as transportation also.
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Re: Guns in Airports [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Just pointing out the fallacy of the guns are designed to (only) kill

Thats not what i said. I said..


Quote:
most guns are designed to kill.

Because they are. Im betting everyone in the lr (and elsewhere) will agree with that, except for you, apparently.

Quote:
Just pointing out the fallacy of the guns are designed to (only) kill, since the vast majority don't.


What i wrote is not a fallacy, but ironically, what you wrote is. Its a non-sequitur. Just because something isnt used for X, does not mean it wasnt designed to do X. By your logic, nuclear weapons arent designed to kill since most do not.

Nearly all of the guns in existence are designed to kill.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Guns in Airports [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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How many cars have actually killed someone?

Cars don't kill.

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Re: Guns in Airports [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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efernand wrote:
Just pointing out the fallacy of the guns are designed to (only) kill, since the vast majority don't. And as your stats point out, cars kill as many people as guns, so it seams they are quite adept at killing, so it could be claimed that they are designed to kill, but also happen to function well as transportation also.

Veganerd already ripped apart the first part of your post, but the rest is trash as well. Sure, it could be claimed that cars are designed to kill, but only by an idiot. Cars kill a lot of people because of the sheer number of people using cars and the amount of time they’re using them in close proximity to each other.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Guns in Airports [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
most guns are designed to kill.

Because they are. Im betting everyone in the lr (and elsewhere) will agree with that, except for you, apparently.

No. 100% no. No way in hell everyone in the LR (or elsewhere) agrees with that. I would say that most democrats agree with you said. I would say that most libertarians don't. I would say that most republicans don't.

Guns are not designed to kill. They are designed to sling lead at a target under a specific set of circumstances. Guns are a tool and like most tools it can be used to kill.

My firearms are designed to compete in their various disciplines (bullseye, 3 gun, PRS, etc). They have not, and hopefully will never, be used to kill someone unless in self defense.

The fact that you think "everyone" thinks guns are designed to kill shows your ignorance about firearm design and use. This failure to understand and outright fear of firearms are the fundamental reasons why "Anti gunners" and "Gunners" will never agree.


----------------------------------------------------------------

My training
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Re: Guns in Airports [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
JSA wrote:
stal wrote:
slowguy wrote:
len wrote:
I have lost my swiss army knife multiple times because I forget I have it get to the xray machine and when I am emptying my pockets its too late, into the bin it goes. I would suspect some of these people just forgot they had the pistol strapped on or in the bag. Risk of having pistol and being injured by it vs successful self defense likely doesn't favor self defense as you say.


I'm sure that it's true that lots of these people just forgot they had their weapon on their person or in their bag. However, that's like saying, "I don't have evil intentions, I'm just too stupid or careless with my deadly registered firearm to keep track of where it is."

Seriously? Forgot you had a pistol in your duffel bag? Forgot you were wearing a pistol? If you can't keep track of your firearm, I'm not sure you deserve to keep one.


I completely agree. Also, if people are too dumb or stupid to drive a car without getting into an accident they shouldn't be allowed to have one. DUI? Confiscate car and no license forever. Texting while driving? Same thing. Driving your Tesla 10mph over the speed limit? Gone forever.

Methinks that you are viewing this example differently because a firearm is involved. I don't think you should.

People are dumb with their responsibilities sometimes...err...a lot.


Except we are not talking about someone having an accident with a gun while using it in a lawful place. We are talking about a device that many states require be locked up and that's mere presence in certain areas is expressly forbidden and illegal.


This is how toddlers end up killing people. Amazing that people can be so careless.

Also, most cars are designed for transporation, most guns are designed to kill. Theres a clear reason why they are treated differently, even though both are dangerous.

No. 100% no. Most cars are not designed for transportation at all. Are Porsche 911's designed for transportation? No, they are designed as a status symbol and for people to be able to drive VERY FAST and illegally. There is no reason, whatsoever, to own a street legal Porsche other than to drive faster than is safe.

If you think cars are designed for transportation than we would all be driving around a Camry or a Pickup. Cars are toys/tools just like firearms which can be used/misused under different (albeit sometimes overlapping) circumstances.

As I mentioned...people are dumb about their responsibilities. This applies to firearms and cars.


----------------------------------------------------------------

My training
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Re: Guns in Airports [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:

Yes, people are dumb with their responsibilities. When they're dumb with simple day to day things, thats fine. When they're too dumb or irresponsible to keep track of where their firearms are located, they shouldn't keep firearms.

It's not difficult. It's a weapon. You take it out of your lockbox, take it to the range, shoot, bring it home, clean it, put it away. You don't leave it in a duffle bag for some unspecified amount of time so that you forget it was there and accidentally take it to the airport. If you're carrying on your person, and you're so unaware of it that you forget you're carrying, then you're not paying enough attention, and you're not safe.

If you don't understand this, then I'd suggest you don't take the responsibility of owning and carrying a weapon seriously enough.

No, when people are dumb with simple day to day things it's not fine. Plenty of folks die at the hands of simple day to day things. A white supremacist fuck plowed his car into an innocent protester in Charlottesville. A 6 year old kid figured out how to back his moms car over his kid brother a few months back here in Utah. Lots of very, very bad things happen every year with day to day objects (more than lives lost by assault weapons) and don't even get me started by lives lost by misuse of greasy foods.

No, firearms are not only meant to be taken out of a lockbox to the range and brought home and put back into the lockbox. A statement like this shows a clear misunderstanding of the use and design of firearms as it pertains to most firearm owners and especially CCW holders.

I take the responsibility of owning and carrying a weapon very seriously. Most do. Unfortunately sometimes people do stupid things. Firearm owners included.

Want proof? Resurrect the darwin thread. Stupid people are everywhere.


----------------------------------------------------------------

My training
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Re: Guns in Airports [stal] [ In reply to ]
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stal wrote:
veganerd wrote:
JSA wrote:
stal wrote:
slowguy wrote:
len wrote:
I have lost my swiss army knife multiple times because I forget I have it get to the xray machine and when I am emptying my pockets its too late, into the bin it goes. I would suspect some of these people just forgot they had the pistol strapped on or in the bag. Risk of having pistol and being injured by it vs successful self defense likely doesn't favor self defense as you say.


I'm sure that it's true that lots of these people just forgot they had their weapon on their person or in their bag. However, that's like saying, "I don't have evil intentions, I'm just too stupid or careless with my deadly registered firearm to keep track of where it is."

Seriously? Forgot you had a pistol in your duffel bag? Forgot you were wearing a pistol? If you can't keep track of your firearm, I'm not sure you deserve to keep one.


I completely agree. Also, if people are too dumb or stupid to drive a car without getting into an accident they shouldn't be allowed to have one. DUI? Confiscate car and no license forever. Texting while driving? Same thing. Driving your Tesla 10mph over the speed limit? Gone forever.

Methinks that you are viewing this example differently because a firearm is involved. I don't think you should.

People are dumb with their responsibilities sometimes...err...a lot.


Except we are not talking about someone having an accident with a gun while using it in a lawful place. We are talking about a device that many states require be locked up and that's mere presence in certain areas is expressly forbidden and illegal.


This is how toddlers end up killing people. Amazing that people can be so careless.

Also, most cars are designed for transporation, most guns are designed to kill. Theres a clear reason why they are treated differently, even though both are dangerous.

No. 100% no. Most cars are not designed for transportation at all. Are Porsche 911's designed for transportation? No, they are designed as a status symbol and for people to be able to drive VERY FAST and illegally. There is no reason, whatsoever, to own a street legal Porsche other than to drive faster than is safe.

If you think cars are designed for transportation than we would all be driving around a Camry or a Pickup. Cars are toys/tools just like firearms which can be used/misused under different (albeit sometimes overlapping) circumstances.

As I mentioned...people are dumb about their responsibilities. This applies to firearms and cars.

Listen dummy. Is your car designed to move? Thats TRANSPORTATION.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Guns in Airports [stal] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Guns are not designed to kill. They are designed to sling lead at a target under a specific set of circumstances.[/quote

And kill its inended target. You better tell the military their primary weapons arent desinged to kill people. They will be quite upset! So will the hunters!

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Guns in Airports [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
Quote:
Guns are not designed to kill. They are designed to sling lead at a target under a specific set of circumstances.[/quote

And kill its inended target. You better tell the military their primary weapons arent desinged to kill people. They will be quite upset! So will the hunters!


Do you know anyone in the military? Do you know any hunters? If you do, they probably think you misunderstand firearms and treat the issue with a kid glove around you as to not trigger your irrational emotions.

99% of military weapons never kill anybody and are used for training purposes.

99% of hunting weapons never kill animals and sit around in a safe.

99% of firearms are designed to sling lead at a target under a specific set of circumstances and not to kill something. (edited to 99 from 100 as some are designed to kill)

Is an over/under shotgun optimized for shooting sporting clays meant to kill something? You probably think so. 100% of sporting clay shooters would think you're an idiot.

Firearms are a tool. Tools can be misused.


----------------------------------------------------------------

My training
Last edited by: stal: Oct 25, 17 17:43
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Re: Guns in Airports [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
stal wrote:
veganerd wrote:
JSA wrote:
stal wrote:
slowguy wrote:
len wrote:
I have lost my swiss army knife multiple times because I forget I have it get to the xray machine and when I am emptying my pockets its too late, into the bin it goes. I would suspect some of these people just forgot they had the pistol strapped on or in the bag. Risk of having pistol and being injured by it vs successful self defense likely doesn't favor self defense as you say.


I'm sure that it's true that lots of these people just forgot they had their weapon on their person or in their bag. However, that's like saying, "I don't have evil intentions, I'm just too stupid or careless with my deadly registered firearm to keep track of where it is."

Seriously? Forgot you had a pistol in your duffel bag? Forgot you were wearing a pistol? If you can't keep track of your firearm, I'm not sure you deserve to keep one.


I completely agree. Also, if people are too dumb or stupid to drive a car without getting into an accident they shouldn't be allowed to have one. DUI? Confiscate car and no license forever. Texting while driving? Same thing. Driving your Tesla 10mph over the speed limit? Gone forever.

Methinks that you are viewing this example differently because a firearm is involved. I don't think you should.

People are dumb with their responsibilities sometimes...err...a lot.


Except we are not talking about someone having an accident with a gun while using it in a lawful place. We are talking about a device that many states require be locked up and that's mere presence in certain areas is expressly forbidden and illegal.


This is how toddlers end up killing people. Amazing that people can be so careless.

Also, most cars are designed for transporation, most guns are designed to kill. Theres a clear reason why they are treated differently, even though both are dangerous.


No. 100% no. Most cars are not designed for transportation at all. Are Porsche 911's designed for transportation? No, they are designed as a status symbol and for people to be able to drive VERY FAST and illegally. There is no reason, whatsoever, to own a street legal Porsche other than to drive faster than is safe.

If you think cars are designed for transportation than we would all be driving around a Camry or a Pickup. Cars are toys/tools just like firearms which can be used/misused under different (albeit sometimes overlapping) circumstances.

As I mentioned...people are dumb about their responsibilities. This applies to firearms and cars.


Listen dummy. Is your car designed to move? Thats TRANSPORTATION.

Driving a Porsche 911 at 100+ mph down a highway is not simple TRANSPORTATION. It's illegal, reckless and murder if you happen to hit someone.

It's a tool. Tools can be misused. People are dumb. I suggest you stop hating tools and start hating the tools that misuse them.


----------------------------------------------------------------

My training
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Re: Guns in Airports [stal] [ In reply to ]
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Its pretty clear you are trolling...im willing to give you the benefit of doubt.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Guns in Airports [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
Its pretty clear you are trolling...im willing to give you the benefit of doubt.

Yes. Totally trolling.

Suggest you go back to your hatred of inanimate objects while we all move on to more important issues.


----------------------------------------------------------------

My training
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Re: Guns in Airports [stal] [ In reply to ]
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stal wrote:
veganerd wrote:
Its pretty clear you are trolling...im willing to give you the benefit of doubt.

Yes. Totally trolling.

Suggest you go back to your hatred of inanimate objects while we all move on to more important issues.

You’re either trolling, or you’re too dumb to understand that inanimate objects, when made by men, still have a designed purpose. Whether a rifle issued to a Soldier is ever used to actually kill someone doesn’t have fuck all to do with whether it was designed to kill someone.

Automobiles are designed by people to transport. They may also be designed to transport fast, or in luxury, or in style, but the basic purpose is transportation. Likewise, the basic purpose of most firearms is to shoot a person or animal, injuring or killing them.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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