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Re: Pardon my ignorance [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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The problem with calling everyone who disagrees with The Left "nazis" is that when, as is apparently the case here, actual nazis are identified it somewhat weakens the impact.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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I've heard Adam Carolla opine on several occasions that there's no better time to be a racist than when everybody's racist.

He ain't wrong.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
I'm following a doxing situation on FB presently. A guy from nearby my old residence has been identified in a photo standing next to the accused killer. A quick view of his FB page left little doubt as to his identity and sympathies. He listed his current employer on that page, which is now being reviewed on FB and Google with poor ratings and "If you want a Nazi building your stuff, this is the place" type comments.

I'm somewhat ambivalent about how this plays out, even presuming they have identified the right guy and the business doesn't take a hit.

So it's okay to act like a Nazi (or support those actions) when going after a "presumed" Nazis?

This is great stuff.
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [Old Hickory] [ In reply to ]
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Old Hickory wrote:
sphere wrote:
I'm following a doxing situation on FB presently. A guy from nearby my old residence has been identified in a photo standing next to the accused killer. A quick view of his FB page left little doubt as to his identity and sympathies. He listed his current employer on that page, which is now being reviewed on FB and Google with poor ratings and "If you want a Nazi building your stuff, this is the place" type comments.

I'm somewhat ambivalent about how this plays out, even presuming they have identified the right guy and the business doesn't take a hit.

So it's okay to act like a Nazi (or support those actions) when going after a "presumed" Nazis?

This is great stuff.

Yes. See, when you're enemy is history's worst villain then everything is justified. This works both ways, btw.

The dude driving that car may have thought the people he was running over were violent Antifa idiots so therefore he was justified.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [Old Hickory] [ In reply to ]
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Nazis also ate bread and soup. Eating bread and soup doesn't make one Nazi-like. But this isn't inherently Nazi behavior, outing someone for their abhorrent beliefs and behavior.

Like I said, I'm not entirely comfortable, but then, isn't it better for them, and us, to know their views and actions, than not, as employers, neighbors, and associates?

I strenuously oppose punishing employers, or anyone for that matter, for things beyond their knowledge or control. Giving a company a bad review for that reason crosses that line, but then, it's a relatively innocuous way to immediately draw the employer's attention to it, which, as an employer, is something I'd like to know about.

It certainly is playing with fire, though, and fire has a way of spreading.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Last edited by: sphere: Aug 14, 17 11:49
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
Nazis also ate bread and soup. Eating bread and soup doesn't make one Nazi-like. But this isn't inherently Nazi behavior, outing someone for their abhorrent beliefs and behavior.

Like I said, I'm not entirely comfortable, but then, isn't it better for them, and us, to know their views and actions, than not, as employers, neighbors, and associates?

I strenuously oppose punishing employers, or anyone for that matter, for things beyond their knowledge or control. Giving a company a bad review for that reason crosses that line, but then, it's a relatively innocuous way to immediately draw the employer's attention to it, which, as an employer, is something I'd like to know about.

It certainly is playing with fire, though, and fire has a way of spreading.

Sure. Which group of people (you don't like) will be next?
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [Old Hickory] [ In reply to ]
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The rally was in a public place. He appeared in public, in support of a neo-Nazi organization. His Facebook profile is public, and includes racist imagery and sentiments. It also named his employer. All public information.

You're presumably upset that people are directing his public profile and behavior toward his employer?

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [Old Hickory] [ In reply to ]
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Old Hickory wrote:

Sure. Which group of people (you don't like) will be next?

Next for what, exactly?

I went to a candlelight vigil for the dead/injured people. Not normally my type of thing, but my wife wanted to go, so I went with her.

I was surprised. I thought it would be mostly BLM and antifa types. And there were some of those.

But I'd estimate that Jewish people were the largest single group. I'm basing that off a large number of Star of David symbols on candles, etc. Nothing promotes common cause more than effing Nazis.
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [Old Hickory] [ In reply to ]
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Most people do not hold ideas where the total eradication of a sub set of humans is a desireable outcome

He is entitled to his views. His employer is entitled to think that if an employee is calling people "ni$$$s, spi$s or ki$es" on line that there may be a risk sending them to jobs or even simply coming to work
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
The rally was in a public place. He appeared in public, in support of a neo-Nazi organization. His Facebook profile is public, and includes racist imagery and sentiments. It also named his employer. All public information.

You're presumably upset that people are directing his public profile and behavior toward his employer?

I'm simply pointing out that you are using (or supporting) Nazi tactics to go after private citizens you think are Nazi.
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [Old Hickory] [ In reply to ]
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Old Hickory wrote:
sphere wrote:
The rally was in a public place. He appeared in public, in support of a neo-Nazi organization. His Facebook profile is public, and includes racist imagery and sentiments. It also named his employer. All public information.

You're presumably upset that people are directing his public profile and behavior toward his employer?


I'm simply pointing out that you are using (or supporting) Nazi tactics to go after private citizens you think are Nazi.

What is "Nazi" about directing people to public websites and profiles identifying someone who publically attended a rally?

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Old Hickory wrote:


Sure. Which group of people (you don't like) will be next?


Next for what, exactly?

I went to a candlelight vigil for the dead/injured people. Not normally my type of thing, but my wife wanted to go, so I went with her.

I was surprised. I thought it would be mostly BLM and antifa types. And there were some of those.

But I'd estimate that Jewish people were the largest single group. I'm basing that off a large number of Star of David symbols on candles, etc. Nothing promotes common cause more than effing Nazis.

Or Russians. Don't forget those effing Russians hacked our election.
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [Old Hickory] [ In reply to ]
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You're simply pointing out something incorrectly and for no useful purpose.

All of it is public information made available by the Nazi sympathizer. Please show me how this is akin to Nazi behavior.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
Old Hickory wrote:
sphere wrote:
The rally was in a public place. He appeared in public, in support of a neo-Nazi organization. His Facebook profile is public, and includes racist imagery and sentiments. It also named his employer. All public information.

You're presumably upset that people are directing his public profile and behavior toward his employer?


I'm simply pointing out that you are using (or supporting) Nazi tactics to go after private citizens you think are Nazi.


What is "Nazi" about directing people to public websites and profiles identifying someone who publically attended a rally?

It does seem innocent to just be looking around to see where someone lives, works, and plays all because they were photographed at a rally. Yep.
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
You're simply pointing out something incorrectly and for no useful purpose.

All of it is public information made available by the Nazi sympathizer. Please show me how this is akin to Nazi behavior.

See post # 154
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
CW in NH wrote:
Agreed, it was the stupidity of his comment that the victim was not of a protected class. It's a pervasive thought that only minoritites are protected and the majority are not. I'm not sure if it's intentional or borne of ignorance. The fact that windy is a lawyer, I think, I'd lean towards option 1.


No, he isn't.

I thought it was well established that Wendy couldn't pass the bar. :)
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [Old Hickory] [ In reply to ]
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Old Hickory wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Old Hickory wrote:
sphere wrote:
The rally was in a public place. He appeared in public, in support of a neo-Nazi organization. His Facebook profile is public, and includes racist imagery and sentiments. It also named his employer. All public information.

You're presumably upset that people are directing his public profile and behavior toward his employer?


I'm simply pointing out that you are using (or supporting) Nazi tactics to go after private citizens you think are Nazi.


What is "Nazi" about directing people to public websites and profiles identifying someone who publically attended a rally?


It does seem innocent to just be looking around to see where someone lives, works, and plays all because they were photographed at a rally. Yep.

Whether it's a great use of one's time to do that looking around is one thing. You still haven't explained how it';s a Nazi thing to do.

This guy apparently was perfectly happy for the world to know about his beliefs. He posted them on a public FB profile where any and everyone can see it. He attended a widely publicized rally to yell and scream about his beliefs, which was certain to be photographed, video'd, covered by news, etc.

It's not Nazi to call attention to the beliefs of someone who publicly broadcasts their beliefs.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [Perseus] [ In reply to ]
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Perseus wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Personally, I fucking hate the concept of hate crimes legislation. Somehow, if this guy ran over pedestrians because he's a psycho, it's better than if he did it because he didn't like their skin color. Ridiculous.


I agree. We judge peoples actions. Their motives only matter in determining if something was an accident, or if it was a premeditated crime.

That's ridiculous. We punish motives all the time, for reasons that go beyond whether something was an accident or premeditated.

For example, how should the abused spouse who deliberately and with premeditation hires a hitman to kill her husband in order to stop the abuse be punished as opposed to the same actions but motivated entirely by greed?

This isn't the only example. The list could go on. People are punished differently every day, and a primary factor in determining the level of punishment is the motivation underlying the crime.
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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That escalated quickly.

Quote:

Ridgeville man out of a job following photo next to Charlottesville murder suspect

A Ridgeville man is out of a job after a New York Times photograph of him standing next to James Alex Fields, Jr.— the man who authorities say killed a 32-year-old woman and injured 19 other people by driving a car through a crowd of protesters — circulated on social media.

Charleston-area residents lambasted Nigel Krofta, 27, on social media Monday for his participation in the Charlottesville white supremacist rally where Heather Heyer, 32, was killed, and two on-duty Virginia state troopers died in a helicopter crash.

"I have been through it all. I am not ashamed of standing for what I believe in," Krofta said Monday in a Facebook message exchange with The Post and Courier. "Every man has a duty to determine for himself what he believes is right and wrong."

Social media users also were quick to criticize the commercial and industrial supplier where he worked.




Krofta's Facebook profile indicates he resides in Ridgeville and is a welder and mechanic at Limehouse & Sons Inc. His page also trumpets racist and neo-Nazi ideologies — all of which are ideals, Krofta said Monday, he firmly stands behind.


"If you look on Facebook and anyone commenting who have known me in person know that I am a good person, but they have also known my beliefs I am very open about them," Krofta said in the Facebook exchange.

"Even people from park circle and the Mill knew that. And it wasn't until this weekend did people feel the need to say something to virtue signal," he added.

"They think they are strong and moral yet only when its convenient for them. They can attack my livelihood all they want, but I am not a materialist so it doesn't matter whether I am poor and homeless or have a steady comfy life," Krofta said in the message.

The backlash Krofta faces comes at a time of mounting tension across the nation, as protests and rallies decrying the racist ideologies he stands for are held in cities from coast to coast.

Following swift backlash and outrage across social media from Lowcountry residents, Krofta's former employer published a statement on Facebook condemning "the actions of the people involved in this horrific display that has taken place in Charlottesville, VA."

"We also do not knowingly hire criminals but when it comes to our attention that we have someone within our organization that fits this description we deal with it in a timely manner," the post says.

Responding to Facebook users who questioned if "he" was fired, Limehouse & Sons wrote "he is no longer an employee" as of Monday afternoon.



Quote:
Limehouse & Sons Inc.
3 hours ago

In light of what has just come to our attention, we here at Limehouse & Sons Inc. would like to take this time to assure our friends and our customers that we do not condone the actions of the people involved in this horrific display that has taken place in Charlottesville, VA. We also do not knowingly hire criminals but when it comes to our attention that we have someone within our organization that fits this description we deal with it in a timely manner and we turn it over to the proper authorities, people like this have no place in our society.


It was not immediately clear whether Krofta left of his own volition or was terminated.

On Krofta's profile, he refers to himself as "unashamed, unabashed white devil." Krofta also publicly shared other posts and propaganda. His political views, as listed on his Facebook page, simply lists: "Zenophobe, Narcissist, Bigot, Misogynist, Racist, Nazi, Ignorant, Right-Winger, Anti-Semite, Islamophobe, Fascist, Dumbass."

Charleston County records indicate Krofta has a minor criminal history, with three arrests in 2013 for charges including public intoxication and congregating for an unlawful purpose.




The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Last edited by: sphere: Aug 14, 17 14:27
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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AlanShearer wrote:
Perseus wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Personally, I fucking hate the concept of hate crimes legislation. Somehow, if this guy ran over pedestrians because he's a psycho, it's better than if he did it because he didn't like their skin color. Ridiculous.


I agree. We judge peoples actions. Their motives only matter in determining if something was an accident, or if it was a premeditated crime.


That's ridiculous. We punish motives all the time, for reasons that go beyond whether something was an accident or premeditated.

For example, how should the abused spouse who deliberately and with premeditation hires a hitman to kill her husband in order to stop the abuse be punished as opposed to the same actions but motivated entirely by greed?

This isn't the only example. The list could go on. People are punished differently every day, and a primary factor in determining the level of punishment is the motivation underlying the crime.

I think you know very well that accommodating the concept of self defense is substantially different from the concept at play with hate crimes.

Hate crimes legislation, as far as I can tell, typically considers hate thought motivation as an aggravating circumstance. And as far as I can tell, it's pretty much the only aggravating or mitigating circumstance that relies entirely on an assessment of what the accused was thinking when he committed the crime. Typically, aggravating factors are things like taking a leadership role in the crime, being a repeat offender, or attacking a particularly vulnerable victim. Typically, mitigating factors are pretty much the opposite. Minor role in the crime, the victim had culpability as well, lack of prior record, etc.

It seems like only "hate crimes" factors are specifically about the emotional reason behind the crime.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
Old Hickory wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Old Hickory wrote:
sphere wrote:
The rally was in a public place. He appeared in public, in support of a neo-Nazi organization. His Facebook profile is public, and includes racist imagery and sentiments. It also named his employer. All public information.

You're presumably upset that people are directing his public profile and behavior toward his employer?


I'm simply pointing out that you are using (or supporting) Nazi tactics to go after private citizens you think are Nazi.


What is "Nazi" about directing people to public websites and profiles identifying someone who publically attended a rally?


It does seem innocent to just be looking around to see where someone lives, works, and plays all because they were photographed at a rally. Yep.


You still haven't explained how it';s a Nazi thing to do.

I have but all you want is an argument. Not me.
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [Old Hickory] [ In reply to ]
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Old Hickory wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Old Hickory wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Old Hickory wrote:
sphere wrote:
The rally was in a public place. He appeared in public, in support of a neo-Nazi organization. His Facebook profile is public, and includes racist imagery and sentiments. It also named his employer. All public information.

You're presumably upset that people are directing his public profile and behavior toward his employer?


I'm simply pointing out that you are using (or supporting) Nazi tactics to go after private citizens you think are Nazi.


What is "Nazi" about directing people to public websites and profiles identifying someone who publically attended a rally?


It does seem innocent to just be looking around to see where someone lives, works, and plays all because they were photographed at a rally. Yep.


You still haven't explained how it';s a Nazi thing to do.


I have but all you want is an argument. Not me.

No, you really haven't, but I don't give enough of a shit about what you think to try to harass you into making a cogent point.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [Old Hickory] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
See post # 154


In this thread?

There's nothing in post #154 explaining how "outing" (they're not hiding) Nazis on social media is anything akin to Naziism.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Last edited by: sphere: Aug 14, 17 14:44
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
Quote:
See post # 154


In this thread?

There's nothing in post #154 explaining how "outing" (they're not hiding) Nazis on social media is anything akin to Naziism.

Not to mention, post 154 seems to have been written by Duffy.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Pardon my ignorance [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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AlanShearer wrote:
JSA wrote:
CW in NH wrote:
Agreed, it was the stupidity of his comment that the victim was not of a protected class. It's a pervasive thought that only minoritites are protected and the majority are not. I'm not sure if it's intentional or borne of ignorance. The fact that windy is a lawyer, I think, I'd lean towards option 1.


No, he isn't.


I thought it was well established that Wendy couldn't pass the bar. :)


I did pass the bar thank you I just don't practice. FYI you're autocorrect is fucking up my name
Last edited by: windywave: Aug 14, 17 15:28
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