Then we have the terrorists. I imagine my son in that 3rd world shit hole risking his life every day to stand between the innocent families of that country trying to live a normal life, and the terrorist scum that would kill them. I perceive terrorists as vastly worse than the enemy combatant, and orders of magnitude worse than the criminal.

The difference is that you see him as a criminal. I don't. In our civil world, our opponent, in this context, is criminals. To curb them we have and system designed to both protect their rights and also protect society by deterring and rehabilitating those criminals. In war we have enemy combatants, otherwise decent types that have managed to get (earn?) themselves politicians that don't like our politicians, as a result we and our buddies are trying to kill them and their buddies. Nothing personal, just another tragic and disappointing aspect of humanity.

Then we have the terrorists. I imagine my son in that 3rd world shit hole risking his life every day to stand between the innocent families of that country trying to live a normal life, and the terrorist scum that would kill them. I perceive terrorists as vastly worse than the enemy combatant, and orders of magnitude worse than the criminal.

We all know you're feeling some oats, what with Duffy and Forge out of the forum, but there's no need for you to take over as the forum blowhard.

The issue/choice was not to bring him home to serve his time. The issue is that he never got an actual trial to begin with. You don't serve time without having been tried in a court of law, at least not in a civilized democratic nation supposedly based on rule of law. He was held without trial, finally convicted/pled guilty in front of a military commission, and his imprisonment and "conviction" have been widely criticized by the UN and a whole slew of human rights organizations. He's the first person since WWII to have been convicted of war crimes as a minor by a military court. Maybe he was tortured or maybe not, it's really beside the point. His right to fair trial was withheld from him, and his own government participated in the denial of his rights.

Here's the problem. If he had been properly arrested and tried, with testimony that wasn't subject to so much doubt, and held in conditions that comport with those of most law abiding civilized nations, he might have been convicted and served the rest of his life in prison. Instead, we tried to cut corners, and now he'll be free and he'll get money because he was denied his fundamental rights as a citizen of Canada.

Why don't you read about what happened to him?

Perfectly said. The Canadian government embarassed itself in how this child was treated, but people refuse to see that point. This will be the ultimate case study in how NOT to treat your own citizens held in foreign prisons.

If I see Omar on the streets of Edmonton, I will shake his hand and wish him well.

He got 10MM for sleep deprivation? You have to be fucking kidding me.

You seem to want to push an agenda without really making an attempt to understand.

The Supreme Court here ruled in 2010 wrote the following;

"The deprivation of [Khadr's] right to liberty and security of the person is not in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.The interrogation of a youth detained without access to counsel, to elicit statements about serious criminal charges while knowing that the youth had been subjected to sleep deprivation and while knowing that the fruits of the interrogations would be shared with the prosecutors, offends the most basic Canadian standards about the treatment of detained youth suspects. Canada's participation in the illegal process in place at Guantanamo Bay clearly violated Canada's binding international obligations,"

This was also reported.

For three weeks ahead of an interview with a Foreign Affairs official in 2004, Khadr was subjected to the, "frequent flyer program" a method of sleep deprivation in which Khadr was moved to a different cell every three hours. The court said the Canadian official knew about this before conducting the interview. Sleep deprivation is widely viewed as a form of torture. Indeed, members of the Canadian Forces are prohibited from using sleep deprivation as a tactic of interrogation.

So, you get a 15-year old they think tossed a grenade, arrest him, using different tactics to get an admission of guilt, and then throw him in prison for 10 years without a chance to defend himself.

That's not quite the same as saying he gets $10 million for sleep deprivation.

noble effort, mate, but i think you could have stopped there.

youre right. We should torture these fuckers and let them be held without trial. That's the right thing to do. Especially if they are minors.

Bingo! Go google what his oldman has done and the hatred the old lady has spewed out . Not hard to imagine her salivating at the mouth with glee every time a terrorist blows himself up somewhere around the world. Then watch the CBC interview with Khader the other night where he implies he is still involved with them..'they are still my family' etc. So what??..... presumably he will be free to share the loot with his parents?!.Ok then..Fucking joke - (and this is the opinion of a left of centre Canadian liberal :) so can only imagine how the poor cons in this country must be dealing with this ..lol

The difference is that you see him as a criminal. I don't. In our civil world, our opponent, in this context, is criminals. To curb them we have and system designed to both protect their rights and also protect society by deterring and rehabilitating those criminals. In war we have enemy combatants, otherwise decent types that have managed to get (earn?) themselves politicians that don't like our politicians, as a result we and our buddies are trying to kill them and their buddies. Nothing personal, just another tragic and disappointing aspect of humanity.

Then we have the terrorists. I imagine my son in that 3rd world shit hole risking his life every day to stand between the innocent families of that country trying to live a normal life, and the terrorist scum that would kill them. I perceive terrorists as vastly worse than the enemy combatant, and orders of magnitude worse than the criminal.

“Sleep deprivation involved keeping detainees awake for up to 180 hours, usually standing or in stress positions, at time with their hands shackled above their heads. At least five detainees experienced disturbing hallucinations during prolonged sleep deprivation and, in at least two of those cases, the CIA nonetheless continued the sleep deprivation.”

And how do you perceive child combatants that may or may not have actually done what they are accused of doing?

And yet 15 is still not a child, but carry on with your delusion.

Yes, all they did was deprive him of sleep. That's it.

They didn't hold him without charges for years. Hold him without trial for years and they certainly didn't do things like this to keep him awake...



Oh and 15 is a minor. Otherwise our military would accept soldiers that young.

Sorry have to firmly disagree with this statement having a 15 year old myself...

So if you're 15 year old picked up a gun and shot someone no harm no foul? I'm not saying they are mature adults, but they aren't kids.

So if you're 15 year old picked up a gun and shot someone no harm no foul? I'm not saying they are mature adults, but they aren't kids.

Now try and imagine your son 9 years old abducted and taken to that part of the world then brainwashed and forced to be a terrorist, then found half dead and held with out trial, and only after being sleep deprived he signed a statement saying he did it when in fact there's no real evidence that he did, how would that make you feel? This kid was only 9 when his brainwashing began, he was under rubble and rocks when he was found half dead, first reports by the soldiers was that a middle aged man threw the grenade, sorry but there is no evidence that this kid did anything and until I find out otherwise I refuse to call him a terrorist.

"Sleep deprived". From the reports I read, I've been thru harsher sleep deprivation conditions many times. If we called it "torture" at the time, we said it with a grin on our faces.

But it's not up to you to decide what is and what isn't torture. We have laws that say differently and the Supreme Court's job is to apply those laws for this exact reason. You don't want to make legal decisions based on what others "feel", it's arbitrary and could lead to problems.

"How would I feel". Of course that would be awful, but as I said before in this thread, sympathy is finite. We should be sympathetic towards the entirely innocent kids that go thru incredible hardship, many not surviving. Once we've helped all those kids out, then if we have sympathy and the capacity to help left remaining, then we can apply it to more gray areas of kids that got brainwashed into being evil. The latter is an awfully long list tho. I'd argue that most of the world's terrorists can be lumped into " as kids, they got brainwashed into evil".

I have never seen anyone in Canada who is sympathetic to terrorists. I do know a lot of people however, who want our country to abide by the laws of our country. If a Canadian was in Afghanistan, and one of the local population wanted to collect on a bounty so fingered our citizen as a terrorist, then the U.S picked him up and sent him off to Gitmo, I would hope he is given a fair trial and a chance to defend himself.

That may be an extreme example but it points out to the real issue, a Canadian citizen, deprived of his right to a fair trial. If the government made the laws and then bends those laws in cases they don't like, there is no point in having the laws at all. If it cost us $10.5 million to make that point, then it has to be done so that it won't happen again.

The difference is that you see him as a criminal.

15 is not a child.