London bridge, borough market and vauxhall
I am sure its a random coincidence
I am sure its a random coincidence
Lavender Room
Login required to started new threads
Login required to post replies
Re: 3 Attacks in London [Andrewmc]
[ In reply to ]
Somebody's probably gonna ask where Trump is.
Re: 3 Attacks in London [Andrewmc]
[ In reply to ]
ugh - this is getting all too common. haven't seen any word of fatalities yet.
have to wonder if this timing is related to the election.
____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan
http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
have to wonder if this timing is related to the election.
____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan
http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
Re: 3 Attacks in London [Andrewmc]
[ In reply to ]
I'm watching the t.v coverage on CNN and there's just no way of knowing at this point if it's a terror attack and who could possibly be behind this.
Re: 3 Attacks in London [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
I can hear sirens. Lots of ambulances will be directed towards my house as i'm 300m from one of the larger london hospitals and a trauma center.
More than one dead apparently
More than one dead apparently
Re: 3 Attacks in London [Andrewmc]
[ In reply to ]
7 dead so far is the report..... The UK actually has more power to deal with this shit than the US they need to implement it
Re: 3 Attacks in London [Andrewmc]
[ In reply to ]
sorry to see this. Manchester, now this. Your gmen are good, ours are good, but I don't see it being mostly put down till the vast majority of Muslims decide to become activists against radicalism in their religion.
Re: 3 Attacks in London [dave_w]
[ In reply to ]
but I don't see it being mostly put down till the vast majority of Muslims decide to become activists against radicalism in their religion.
They have to do more than simply say "these terrorists have nothing to do with Islam" and move on. There has to be Muslims starting to cooperate with police and actively point to those spreading fundamentalism and to those who seem to have become radicalized.
My bet is that whoever did this was the following will come out.
a) He was known to police and likely being watched
b) Many will come forward to say how they saw him become radicalized
c) He attended a Mosque that preaches radical views
Just a wild guess though.
They have to do more than simply say "these terrorists have nothing to do with Islam" and move on. There has to be Muslims starting to cooperate with police and actively point to those spreading fundamentalism and to those who seem to have become radicalized.
My bet is that whoever did this was the following will come out.
a) He was known to police and likely being watched
b) Many will come forward to say how they saw him become radicalized
c) He attended a Mosque that preaches radical views
Just a wild guess though.
Re: 3 Attacks in London [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
Sanuk wrote:
but I don't see it being mostly put down till the vast majority of Muslims decide to become activists against radicalism in their religion. They have to do more than simply say "these terrorists have nothing to do with Islam" and move on. There has to be Muslims starting to cooperate with police and actively point to those spreading fundamentalism and to those who seem to have become radicalized.
My bet is that whoever did this was the following will come out.
a) He was known to police and likely being watched
b) Many will come forward to say how they saw him become radicalized
c) He attended a Mosque that preaches radical views
Just a wild guess though.
What makes you so sure it was Muslim(s).
Re: 3 Attacks in London [cerveloguy]
[ In reply to ]
What makes you so sure it was Muslim(s).
Since I haven't heard any confirmations yet I am guessing. I'm torn between this being carried out by either Buddhists or Muslims and I'm torn but going way out on a limb...
Since I haven't heard any confirmations yet I am guessing. I'm torn between this being carried out by either Buddhists or Muslims and I'm torn but going way out on a limb...
Re: 3 Attacks in London [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
Sanuk wrote:
but I don't see it being mostly put down till the vast majority of Muslims decide to become activists against radicalism in their religion. They have to do more than simply say "these terrorists have nothing to do with Islam" and move on. There has to be Muslims starting to cooperate with police and actively point to those spreading fundamentalism and to those who seem to have become radicalized.
My bet is that whoever did this was the following will come out.
a) He was known to police and likely being watched
b) Many will come forward to say how they saw him become radicalized
c) He attended a Mosque that preaches radical views
Just a wild guess though.
And? I bet someone knew he had a vehicle too. What are they supposed to do? Arrest anyone with unpopular views who has a car?
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
Re: 3 Attacks in London [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
slowguy wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
but I don't see it being mostly put down till the vast majority of Muslims decide to become activists against radicalism in their religion. They have to do more than simply say "these terrorists have nothing to do with Islam" and move on. There has to be Muslims starting to cooperate with police and actively point to those spreading fundamentalism and to those who seem to have become radicalized.
My bet is that whoever did this was the following will come out.
a) He was known to police and likely being watched
b) Many will come forward to say how they saw him become radicalized
c) He attended a Mosque that preaches radical views
Just a wild guess though.
And? I bet someone knew he had a vehicle too. What are they supposed to do? Arrest anyone with unpopular views who has a car?
Unpopular views?
Re: 3 Attacks in London [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
My bet is that whoever did this was the following will come out.
a) He was known to police and likely being watched
b) Many will come forward to say how they saw him become radicalized
c) He attended a Mosque that preaches radical views
Just a wild guess though.
And? I bet someone knew he had a vehicle too. What are they supposed to do? Arrest anyone with unpopular views who has a car?
Not sure what this has to do with someone who has a car. I listed 3 items that have typically been discovered after the fact. In many cases, the police come forward to say they have been watching someone who returned from a country like Syria or Libya and that they were watching them. There are an estimated 23,000 people in the UK the police are currently watching, that is a problem.
Then, we will hear from friends or neighbors who will suddenly remember and share that he was quiet and recently changed his views, becoming more radical. At the same time, we typically find out that the Mosque he attends has a history of spreading radical views.
We could continue to ignore red flags and have the weekly terrorist attacks around the world, or find ways to prevent them and actually do something worthwhile. Right now, it seems we are being very reactive, too afraid to offend a religion instead of facing reality.
a) He was known to police and likely being watched
b) Many will come forward to say how they saw him become radicalized
c) He attended a Mosque that preaches radical views
Just a wild guess though.
And? I bet someone knew he had a vehicle too. What are they supposed to do? Arrest anyone with unpopular views who has a car?
Not sure what this has to do with someone who has a car. I listed 3 items that have typically been discovered after the fact. In many cases, the police come forward to say they have been watching someone who returned from a country like Syria or Libya and that they were watching them. There are an estimated 23,000 people in the UK the police are currently watching, that is a problem.
Then, we will hear from friends or neighbors who will suddenly remember and share that he was quiet and recently changed his views, becoming more radical. At the same time, we typically find out that the Mosque he attends has a history of spreading radical views.
We could continue to ignore red flags and have the weekly terrorist attacks around the world, or find ways to prevent them and actually do something worthwhile. Right now, it seems we are being very reactive, too afraid to offend a religion instead of facing reality.
Re: 3 Attacks in London [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
Snitches get stitches
Re: 3 Attacks in London [windywave]
[ In reply to ]
windywave wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
but I don't see it being mostly put down till the vast majority of Muslims decide to become activists against radicalism in their religion. They have to do more than simply say "these terrorists have nothing to do with Islam" and move on. There has to be Muslims starting to cooperate with police and actively point to those spreading fundamentalism and to those who seem to have become radicalized.
My bet is that whoever did this was the following will come out.
a) He was known to police and likely being watched
b) Many will come forward to say how they saw him become radicalized
c) He attended a Mosque that preaches radical views
Just a wild guess though.
And? I bet someone knew he had a vehicle too. What are they supposed to do? Arrest anyone with unpopular views who has a car?
Unpopular views?
I agree with slowguy. There are a lot of people with radical views and intensified hatred who would not turn terrorist. We don't have thought police and we have free speech.
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers
Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Re: 3 Attacks in London [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
Quote:
Not sure what this has to do with someone who has a car.The London Bridge attack was a guy in a van.
Quote:
...or find ways to prevent them and actually do something worthwhile.So I ask you again. Do what? Even if this guy was known to law enforcement, known to have radical views, etc, what would you propose to do about him? He didn't build a bomb or buy guns or anything else that is criminal, up to the point at which he ran people over with his van. What do you propose we do to stop that and be less reactive?
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
Re: 3 Attacks in London [windywave]
[ In reply to ]
windywave wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
but I don't see it being mostly put down till the vast majority of Muslims decide to become activists against radicalism in their religion. They have to do more than simply say "these terrorists have nothing to do with Islam" and move on. There has to be Muslims starting to cooperate with police and actively point to those spreading fundamentalism and to those who seem to have become radicalized.
My bet is that whoever did this was the following will come out.
a) He was known to police and likely being watched
b) Many will come forward to say how they saw him become radicalized
c) He attended a Mosque that preaches radical views
Just a wild guess though.
And? I bet someone knew he had a vehicle too. What are they supposed to do? Arrest anyone with unpopular views who has a car?
Unpopular views?
Yes. Unpopular views. Views you and I might very well disagree with, but which are not illegal to hold.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
Re: 3 Attacks in London [JSA]
[ In reply to ]
JSA wrote:
windywave wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
but I don't see it being mostly put down till the vast majority of Muslims decide to become activists against radicalism in their religion. They have to do more than simply say "these terrorists have nothing to do with Islam" and move on. There has to be Muslims starting to cooperate with police and actively point to those spreading fundamentalism and to those who seem to have become radicalized.
My bet is that whoever did this was the following will come out.
a) He was known to police and likely being watched
b) Many will come forward to say how they saw him become radicalized
c) He attended a Mosque that preaches radical views
Just a wild guess though.
And? I bet someone knew he had a vehicle too. What are they supposed to do? Arrest anyone with unpopular views who has a car?
Unpopular views?
I agree with slowguy. There are a lot of people with radical views and intensified hatred who would not turn terrorist. We don't have thought police and we have free speech.
This is for both you and Slowguy. I fundamentally disagree with the fact that inciting terrorist attacks is just advocating an unpopular view. There is a line. Whether it should be punished or silenced is a different discussion entirely, but to term it as an unpopular view is moronic IMO.
Re: 3 Attacks in London [windywave]
[ In reply to ]
windywave wrote:
This is for both you and Slowguy. I fundamentally disagree with the fact that inciting terrorist attacks is just advocating an unpopular view. There is a line. Whether it should be punished or silenced is a different discussion entirely, but to term it as an unpopular view is moronic IMO.Rarely, if ever, do guys who carry out attacks like this incite terrorist attacks. They are the sheep who carry out the attacks, not the ring leaders.
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers
Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Re: 3 Attacks in London [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
So I ask you again. Do what? Even if this guy was known to law enforcement, known to have radical views, etc, what would you propose to do about him?
- find out which Mosque is preaching radical views and shut it down.
- if someone goes to a country like Syria and fights to join with ISIS, cancel their passport when they are out of the country.
- improve intelligence by working with Muslims to identify those at risk. If they are known by police and identified by others as holding extreme views, then you have to find a way to arrest them and if it is true, deport them.
There has to be far more pressure on the Muslim community. They can't be given a free pass when they withhold information from police.
- find out which Mosque is preaching radical views and shut it down.
- if someone goes to a country like Syria and fights to join with ISIS, cancel their passport when they are out of the country.
- improve intelligence by working with Muslims to identify those at risk. If they are known by police and identified by others as holding extreme views, then you have to find a way to arrest them and if it is true, deport them.
There has to be far more pressure on the Muslim community. They can't be given a free pass when they withhold information from police.
Re: 3 Attacks in London [JSA]
[ In reply to ]
JSA wrote:
windywave wrote:
This is for both you and Slowguy. I fundamentally disagree with the fact that inciting terrorist attacks is just advocating an unpopular view. There is a line. Whether it should be punished or silenced is a different discussion entirely, but to term it as an unpopular view is moronic IMO.
Rarely, if ever, do guys who carry out attacks like this incite terrorist attacks. They are the sheep who carry out the attacks, not the ring leaders.
no shit. . . . My beef is with the "holy" men inciting this garbage.
Re: 3 Attacks in London [windywave]
[ In reply to ]
windywave wrote:
JSA wrote:
windywave wrote:
This is for both you and Slowguy. I fundamentally disagree with the fact that inciting terrorist attacks is just advocating an unpopular view. There is a line. Whether it should be punished or silenced is a different discussion entirely, but to term it as an unpopular view is moronic IMO.
Rarely, if ever, do guys who carry out attacks like this incite terrorist attacks. They are the sheep who carry out the attacks, not the ring leaders.
no shit. . . . My beef is with the "holy" men inciting this garbage.
Neither slowguy nor I are talking about the people who do the inciting. We are both talking about those who carry out the attacks, who are known to frequent websites that promote the attacks, but have done nothing illegal until the attacks are carried out.
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers
Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Re: 3 Attacks in London [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
Sanuk wrote:
So I ask you again. Do what? Even if this guy was known to law enforcement, known to have radical views, etc, what would you propose to do about him? - find out which Mosque is preaching radical views and shut it down.
- if someone goes to a country like Syria and fights to join with ISIS, cancel their passport when they are out of the country.
- improve intelligence by working with Muslims to identify those at risk. If they are known by police and identified by others as holding extreme views, then you have to find a way to arrest them and if it is true, deport them.
There has to be far more pressure on the Muslim community. They can't be given a free pass when they withhold information from police.
As before, you're really just not much of a fan of actual freedom of thought or travel or many of the freedoms our country is built on.
Who do you propose gets to decide if a religious institution's ideas are radical enough to justify govt shutting them down? That couldn't possibly go wrong.
"Find a way to arrest them and ...deport them" because they hold extreme views? WTF?
Pretty sure Canada generally believes in free speech, religious practice, thought, etc more than this.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
Re: 3 Attacks in London [JSA]
[ In reply to ]
JSA wrote:
windywave wrote:
JSA wrote:
windywave wrote:
This is for both you and Slowguy. I fundamentally disagree with the fact that inciting terrorist attacks is just advocating an unpopular view. There is a line. Whether it should be punished or silenced is a different discussion entirely, but to term it as an unpopular view is moronic IMO.
Rarely, if ever, do guys who carry out attacks like this incite terrorist attacks. They are the sheep who carry out the attacks, not the ring leaders.
no shit. . . . My beef is with the "holy" men inciting this garbage.
Neither slowguy nor I are talking about the people who do the inciting. We are both talking about those who carry out the attacks, who are known to frequent websites that promote the attacks, but have done nothing illegal until the attacks are carried out.
Technically they have broken the law when they've taken an affirmative action towards the crime. They should indict the radical preachers as co-conspirators
windywave wrote:
JSA wrote:
windywave wrote:
JSA wrote:
windywave wrote:
This is for both you and Slowguy. I fundamentally disagree with the fact that inciting terrorist attacks is just advocating an unpopular view. There is a line. Whether it should be punished or silenced is a different discussion entirely, but to term it as an unpopular view is moronic IMO.
Rarely, if ever, do guys who carry out attacks like this incite terrorist attacks. They are the sheep who carry out the attacks, not the ring leaders.
no shit. . . . My beef is with the "holy" men inciting this garbage.
Neither slowguy nor I are talking about the people who do the inciting. We are both talking about those who carry out the attacks, who are known to frequent websites that promote the attacks, but have done nothing illegal until the attacks are carried out.
Technically they have broken the law when they've taken an affirmative action towards the crime. They should indict the radical preachers as co-conspirators
No they haven't. If I plan a bank robbery, scope it out, obtain all the supplies, drive to the bank, then change my mind and do not follow through, I have committed no crime.
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers
Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR