Does the First Amendment apply to things one says as an employee of a business, and thus provide protection from being fired?

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

I understand your point about being an employee and honestly I don't know how 1st Amendment applies to radio. I think that having a job that pays you to speak probably is a bit different than the average employee conversation in the break room, but even with that I think it would be pathetic if you got fired from any job for that statement. It seems to me that being a talk radio station that they should allow him to say what he wants as long as it is not outside the law. I listened to Howard Stern make jokes about Columbine tragedy just after the event here in CO and he didn't lose his job. If the things this guys says make enough people angry then market forces will cause his removal.

I just think it is scary and pathetic that a comment like this can result in being fired and the management of that station is weak for giving in to CAIR. I haven't read there was an overall outcry against his statement by the general public, just CAIR. This is hyper sensitive PC reaction only because it was directed at Islam.

Please read the article you linked to. Then read your posts. You missed quite a few pieces of the puzzle.

Well I did read the article and I am not sure what pieces you are talking about. The pieces are talks show host made comments on his show, CAIR took offense to comments, CAIR pressures radio station, Radio station demands apology, Host rightly says FU, station fires host. What did I miss?

No--it doesn't. As one professor I had stated--"You have a right to free speech, but you don't have a right to a job."

If you bring embarrassment on your employer from things you say while on the payroll (or even off in some cases)--you can be fired. Just ask Jimmy the Greek and Rush Limbaugh.

It was a rhetorical question, but thanks.

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

just out of curiosity, do you believe in the content of his statement?

---

_________
kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

What I believe doesn't have anything to do with this issue. I do believe that he has the right to say it, just like Stern had the right to make his incendiary comments. I also believe that tri_bri2 and Ken are right when they say he has no right to the job but I think this comment was a long way from grounds for firing.

Your question highlights my point that this is not about what he said or his right to say it but about the fact he said something about Islam.

Understood. I was just trying to agree with you for once!

I think this comment was a long way from grounds for firing

jeez, if that's a long way, how far would he have to go to get fired in your opinion? it seems pretty inflamatory to me and does not seem to serve any valid purpose. if you owned the station, would you allow you hosts to make outlandish statements against racial, religious and ethnic groups without firing them?

---

_________
kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

5280 = Brian



I see the same complete lack of logic in his debating style.

---

----------------------------------------------------------
"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

I don't disagree it was inflamatory, we agree 100%. My issue is that he was only fired because CAIR pressured the station. If I was the owner of the station I would tell CAIR that I understand the issue they have raised but that I am not going to fire him for it. If what he said angers enough people he will lose his job through financial pressures because advertisers will complain. If you can't keep advertisers because you shoot your mouth off then you lose your job.

I don't disagree with you on the content of the statement, my issue is he was only fired (at least from what I have read) because one special interest group pressured them to do it. There have been many hosts who say stuff on the edge and in the end the market weeds out the ones that are over the line.

Excellent post. As someone who has attacked me in the past because you disagree with me I am not sure I care too much what you think and generally see your style of debate as an ongoing troll as evidenced in this post.

This part:
"WMAL president and general manager Chris Berry told the industry publication Radio & Records: "Some of Michael's statements about Islam went over the line — and this isn't the first time that he has been reprimanded for insensitive language and comments. I asked Michael for an on-air acknowledgement that some of his remarks were overly broad and inexplicably he refused.""

This wasn't his first reprimand for on air comments.

No I got that piece, and I can't speak to those since they don't provide any detail to the comments or the history. It just makes me wonder why they didn't fire him before? They fired him this time because CAIR pressured them to and that is just seems weak to me. I don't think we should fire every person who says things we don't like.

I don't think we should fire every person who says things we don't like.


What about a person who denies the holocaust on the radio? What about a person who says that GW Bush is a crossdressing homosexual? What about a person who says that Christians are hate-filled fascists? Would you really be outraged if these persons got fired? I doubt it...

---

_______________________________________________

Let's look at MattinSF threat should they fire Pat? As I stated above, Howard Stern said some crappy things after Columbine and my buddy Ward Churchill says some really crappy stuff but you can't just go around firing people who you disagree with. Why do you think that is ok? Do I like what these people say? No!

In the same way I don't think they should fire that Ahole Churchill for what he said they shouldn't fire this guy.

he refused to apologize for calling Islam "a terrorist organization."

C'mon. You can justify that? Will the next supported statement be that Catholicism is a "pedophile organization"?

Conservative radio host Michael Graham

Doesn't sound too conservative to me. Sounds like he says whatever he wants without thinking. Oh wait conservative in this regard means Republican?

If I was the owner of the station I would tell CAIR that I understand the issue they have raised but that I am not going to fire him for it. If what he said angers enough people he will lose his job through financial pressures because advertisers will complain. If you can't keep advertisers because you shoot your mouth off then you lose your job.

Meanwhile your financial source is gone (advertisers), and company name is drug through the mud ... all too keep someone that said something stupid that could do little else but offend a large number of people. Can I work for you?

Howard Stern's employers look at what revenue he brought to the table v. the risks and decided he was worth it.

--------------------------------

Free speech doesn't mean "consequence free".

---

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

you can't just go around firing people who you disagree with. Why do you think that is ok?

Why the hell not? If I owned a radio station, I wouldnt pay people to say stupid and hate-filled crap on the air. Let them find another media to express their 1st Amendment rights.

---

_______________________________________________

wow, I don't know how many ways to say it I am not justifying or defending what he said, I simply state that it is dangerous to fire people because we don't like what they say and because a group pressures you to.

Meanwhile your financial source is gone (advertisers), and company name is drug through the mud ... all too keep someone that said something stupid that could do little else but offend a large number of people. Can I work for you? First, I haven't read anything that shows his comments were causing them to lose advertisers, just that CAIR raised an issue. How do you know that he isn't a profitable time slot? I don't know either but it is just your assumption he was losing advertisers.

Howard Stern's employers look at what revenue he brought to the table v. the risks and decided he was worth it. And that makes it right? I am confused, this guy was fired based on the fact he offended people, no one has said anything about his profitability, just that what he said was offensive so if you apply the same standard then Stern should have been canned because what he said was offensive.

Ok

I simply state that it is dangerous to fire people because we don't like what they say and because a group pressures you to.

Certainly it is dangerous to fire people becuase you don't like what they say. Firing someone for expressing a differing view, and fire someone because they slandered millions of people by referring to Islam as a "terrorist organization" are two COMPLETELY different things.

This is not a hard decision, nor complicated matter.

What's preventing a group of Islamic people from filing a class action lawsuit against the station?

As someone else pointed out, it's not the first time he said offensive things. Again, drastically offensive comments and differing viewpoints are two different things.

The station weighs the pros and cons, and makes a decision. If the guy has enough following, he'll be right back on a new radio station. Isn't that how it works? One man's trash is another man's treasure?

---

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

they slandered millions of people by referring to Islam as a "terrorist organization" are two COMPLETELY different things. I didn't hear the show but taking the statement as it stands I don't see this as a slander of millions. I see this statement as being focused on the leaders of the religion and the structure, but again I don't have the context.

What's preventing a group of Islamic people from filing a class action lawsuit against the station? for what?

What is funny is that the reaction to his statements by CAIR and the radio station have resulted in them being published way beyond the reach of his local show.

Certainly it is dangerous to fire people becuase you don't like what they say.

Why is it dangerous? There isn't exactly a sharp line between "don't like what they say" and "offensive"

What's preventing a group of Islamic people from filing a class action lawsuit against the station?

They'd never win it, that's not the issue.



The station weighs the pros and cons, and makes a decision.

Basically that's it. They wanted to have a conservative talk show host, not a rabid Michael Savage clone. So they fired the guy. Maybe another station wants that kind of commentary and will hire him..

---

_______________________________________________