opening: a foggy urban battle scene - now quiet . . .
JSA uses his bayonet to clean his fingernails and says "Obama - what an asshat - can't use an aircraft carrier to clean ma nail"

then Romney comes on and says "Syria is important to the region because Syria is Iran's way to the sea." BTW, look at a map sometime to see how funny Romney's gaffe was.

Oh I know. Someone forgot all the times they've threatened to close the Strait of Hormuz.

I think everyone is missing the point. the President did a playground tactic making fun of Romney and avoided answering the reall question being asked.

The point was not that we need as many ships as in 1917, but that you had to go back that far to see such a small number of ships. Romney's point was that we are already below the number of ships recommended for the navy, and we are going to be quite a bit lower if Obama gets his defense cuts.

Obama really got him with his jab, but did not have an answer on why we have less ships then are required and are still shrinking. Better to make some snide remark than give us a substantive answer. What a great example for our country.

How about this:


In 2010, Marinette Marine employed 190 employees in its Marinette shipyard and was on the verge of closure. However, when the Navy LCS project, which was commissioned under George Bush, was awarded to Marinetee Marine, the shipyard was saved and in two years expanded to over 950 employees with a target of goal of 1500 employees by the end of 2013. But now the 55 ship LCS program is at risk under President Obama's proposed military cuts. While Mitt Romney wants to see our Navy grow in size and strength, President Obama sees Navy ships as despensable like "bayonets and horses." President Obama does not understand that these ships not only represent military security abroad, but, economic security at home as tens of thousands of jobs rely on this contract. Don't give President Obama the chance to loose even more jobs. Tell him he has lost enough.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

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See my post above this. Pretty sad that you do not know about the shipyard in your own state. Of course, you do live in Madison.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

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Okay, I see it.

Sounds like the Libya question from the previous debate. Obama was focusing on what Romney said instead of what the real issue was. Which doesn't help. But maybe Romney should be setting things up better. Looking back on the transcript, he did mention that the Navy needs 313 ships to carry out their CURRENT mission but only has 285. That's a good point. Then he fucked it all up. That got lost because of his 1916 crap.

wouldn't it be pure outright socialism if we kept these folks building ships we don't need?

Yep. Romney had the perfect opportunity to blast O on this one and blew it. But, like I said, this will be used on the campaign trail and will be used effectively with the target audience.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

What source do you have that says we do not need them? Do you know anything about the LCS?

EDIT TO ADD: These are union jobs, btw. That sould make you all warm and tingly.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Hrm. That's actually pretty good for some political spinstering. I still think it's a bunch of bullshit, but it could work. I'd leave the part out about them being saved in 2010 due to a contract award though:).

ding ding! Romney is right on the actual point, Obama thinks he "won", and maybe he did with his base. My take is that it was another snarky moment that cuts into Obama's "likeability" and ultimately, his favorable ratings, and those things matter more with folks in the middle.

You are proposing we need more then Obama is willing to budget - do you have a link to a Navy request for more.

Not definitive answer, but some info to work with.


http://www.slate.com/...he_u_s_military.html

I posted it earlier on two different threads. In 2010, the Navy awarded the LCS contract to both Lockheed Martin and Austal. Instead of a winner-take-all bid, the 20 ship award was split in two with each contractor taking 10 ships (there are 2 different models, which is how the bid was split). Lockheed Martin is the general contractor, but, in reality, your home-state company, Marinette Marine, is doing all the building from start to finish. The total LCS program, approved by the Department of the Navy, is for 55 ships total. Not only is that 55 ship goal in jeopardy, but, the contractually awarded 20 ships are in jeopardy and it aint b/c we don't need them.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Total numbers of the Army doesn't really help, though. The key stat is that out of 565,000 in the Army, only about 50,000 are infantry...a very small number. There are about 20,000 Marine infantry. Our tooth to tail ratio has gotten insane. You can't just draft somebody and make a competent infantryman out of them overnight...it is a skill that has to be taught, trained, and kept current, just like any other. The real problem that neither candidate is really trying to address is the fact that our military has been turned into a jobs program, and not one of defending the nation.

Spot

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

I found some more comments for you guys to get outraged about. Who would call them battleships? I hope you military buffs take this dude to task for using a term incorrectly even though we know what he means:

"To compare modern American battleships and Navy with bayonets, I just don't understand that comparison"

You are quite naive if you think defense is all about national security, it's about job creation. Watch what happens when the military tries to close a base.

everybody becomes a Socialist when it's their pet special interest group on the chopping block

I don't think you know what the word "Socialist" means.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I should have gone pink - I was using socialism as the right wing likes to use the term -

I work for Lockheed Martin and maintaining LCS is a very, very big deal to me, personally

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

well then we should keep you working then - now that you put it that way.

You would feel better about randymar if he worked at GM instead of Lockheed Martin, wouldn't you?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

 it's just me being a prick - but again, everybody has their projects they don't want cut . . .

You DO realize that the low point of our ship count since the 19th century was in 2007 (278), since then we have added 9 New destroyers and 2 littoral combat ships while decommissioning some old frigates. Our count has risen to 285 since Obama took over and more ships are coming, so even though this argument that Obama is crippling the navy is absolutely absurd, it's also wrong.
My unreliable, liberal source is http://www.history.navy.mil/...ches/org9-4.htm#2000

When it comes to the bitching about visiting Israel, Reagan never visited Israel as president and GW didn't go until his second term in 2008, Papa Bush never went as president either. Irrelevant? Yes, but don't attack someone for not doing it ENOUGH when your guys never did it.

The real question that wasn't answered last night, or even asked by the moderator was the issue of Europe and the situation in the EU. Our economic growth and stability of worldwide credit markets are more in the hands of the EU right now than our own. Every day there continues to be uncertainty in the EU and contraction in the eurozone it squeezes our recovery further. There was not ONE question about candidates views on the issues of Spain, Greece, or the future of the EU. This was ridiculous. An unstable, contracting EU is the number one worldwide economic issue right now and we will not grow at 3%+ until they get there shit together and we need to help leverage and facilitate this. Instead we were talking about the size of our WW1 fleet as if the lusitania was just sunk by the kaiser, the ocean apparently doesn't touch Iran anymore and Romney talked about Mali as if a dirt poor, landlocked country that is 90% Muslim having an Al-qaeda presence is shocking. Maybe we should attack them since they have a few uranium mines too. I will sign back up for that, i've always wanted to see that camel train carrying the salt into timbuktu. White gold baby!

With the crises in the EU going on and directly effecting the US economy, Mali should never be mentioned more than Greece, Spain or Germany. Absurd.

I did appreciate Romney calling out the Chinese for being counterfeiting, fraudulent thieves. Counterfeiting and intellectual theft by the Chinese is a much, much bigger issue than we give it credit for.