Our pack actually recognized this and had a seperate mom & dad heat so they could make cars alongside their kids. That room would be full of slowtwitch dads for sure.

Dad's overengineering their kids car is going to happen regadless, just like doping in sports, some will do it while others will not.

A good solution to the "you didn't do it, you dad did" aregument is to do a photo cronicle of the den working on their cars together to show they actually had some hands on time without their pesky dads. Each den would show off their poster/slide show and there would be an award for teamwork given to the entire den for the best group workers.

On the flip side of your argument, this is where I learned about friction and powdered graphite, spray lubricants, aerodymanics, auto design, how to safely use a torch to melt lead sinkers, how to spray paint, how to use a chisel, power sander, band saw and table saw in the correct manner. The overengineering was the best part for me because it got me to ask a lot of new questions and opened doors for me.

Dave

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Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach

My Daughters troop actually had several build days, and like 2 kids showed up and one of those the parent dropped off the kid and did not stick around to help.

The other thing that is fun to watch is weigh in nite. It is sad to see some of these kids come in with wheels falling out ext.. A group of us set up a table and help fix the cars that are not ready to race I would say 3 of us will "repair" 30 cars that night.

For the OP NOTE: if you use superglue be very very very very careful. Yes I have superglued a wheel to the axle.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

What's the kind of car that has the CO2 cartridge in the back that runs on a string? I remember making one in 7th grade and it was the coolest. I have no idea how fast they went, but it was insane. I remember going the light route on design and the car cracked in half in the competition from hitting the finish line pads. COOL.

One last comment (well at least for now).

My pinewood derby experience was 1yr. My dad and i built a very simple car (I think I cut 2 wedges off the block). In playing around the day of the race, my dad noticed the car rolled straighter backward. So thats how we raced it. The first time on everyone was yelling the cars on backward.. It was a wedge shape with the flat wall going first. (of course by turning it around we also moved the CG back but we did not know that then)..

We won our pack race, with the backward wedge car.. so much for aero...

One of my disappointments of having 3 girls was going to be no pinewood derby bonding experience for me....

I was very happy when my daughter brought the note home that they were doing Pinewood derby.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Did u just call me a douche bag? Hold on the doorbells ringing with bearings from Phil Wood for my sons car's wheel's.

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__________________________________________________
Official Polar Ambassador
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Excellent, make sure you explain the benefit of those bearings to your son in an attempt to teach him something. It will be helpful for him when he some day works for my son.

Really, he just turned 6 years old and he had a little hand in making it and is proud of it. I did let him do what he could. I can see when the motor skills are a bit more devaloped like at 8-10 years old and letting the kid carve or saw under a watchful eye. I dont know about him working for your son he is at a 8 year old math level. All kids are different and have different personalities. I cant raise him like my 4 year old. If my 6 year old had a block with wheels dripping with paint all over it his confidence would be ruined. Now my 4 year old would not give a shit and be proud of whatever he raced his self esteem is not easly shattered.

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__________________________________________________
Official Polar Ambassador
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Exactly...and as a Tiger cub, there's going to be a limited amount of stuff they can actually do. BUT, that doesn't mean you can't use the process to teach them about the other things you listed. As they get older, the more and more they can do, but it's still fun for it to be a collaborative effort. Some of the most fun we have had in building the cars is in planning what he wants it to be :-)

It's funny, of the 4 cars we've built, I think my boy has had the most fun with the first car we made together when he was a Wolf Cub. About all he did on that one was trace the outline (simple wedge), sand (a little), and then do the final "decorating" with a paint pen. At that age they really don't have the manual dexterity yet to be able to attach the wheels even. Guess what?...that car, which was basically thrown together (i.e. no polishing of the axles, but the weight WAS as far back as possible) is still the fastest car we've built...and it's still his favorite (probably because he won his Den with it!)

Another area that has been a real learning experience has been in working on the car to improve it between the Pack level and District level competitions. Last year he had a really slow car at the Pack level (didn't even make it to the finals of his den), mostly because he didn't want to put much work into it (he was being lazy) and I wasn't going to do it for him. I asked him if he wanted to see if we could make it faster for the districts. He was ready to just give up and not bother with the district competition (it's open entry), but I convinced him to give it a shot. That resulted in a whole load of father/son sessions polishing wheel openings and axles (those are hard to do solo if you don't have a drill press) along with getting the alignment improved, etc. In the districts, his car ran MUCH better and he was beating cars that had waxed him at the pack level. Even though he didn't end up winning anything, that was a HUGE lesson in what can be accomplished with a small bit of "extra attention to detail".

That said, one of the funniest lines in the pinewood derby based comedy "Down and Derby" (not a stellar movie...direct to video I think) is when 3 boys are sitting on the curb after each of their fathers on the cul-de-sac have basically "taken over" the car building projects. One of the boy says to the others: "I can't wait until I'm an adult...and I can build my OWN car." ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

CERAMIC BEARINGS

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Erik
Strava

Bearings of any sort are illegal. You can only use what's in the kit.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

just jokes.

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Erik
Strava

I'm betting a parent gave some help on this one:

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell

Polish the axles until they gleam.

Powder graphite the axles.

Sand the burrs off the wheels.

Make the cars body as low as possible.

Make it as heavy as it is legal to be.

The classic wedge shape is hard to beat.

Talk the leaders into having an unlimited dad races the night before. Throw out the rules and race like a demon.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

All good points here. But the best way to do the axles and wheels is with a drill press. Chuck the axles in and polish with 600 to 2000 grit and then finally with a car wax. Do the same with the wheels. You can mount them on a small diameter screw and hold it down with the nut and then insert into drill press. But be careful, as others have said and do not change the shape of the wheel. But an important step is to get the wheel and axle kits and spin them in you hand. You will be amazed at the differences. Most places sells these in packs of 10s. I used to go through about 20 to find 4 good wheels. The last piece of advice is to take a belt sander mount it upside down in a vise, with a very well worn piece of paper in it and run the car on it for a while. Do not let the axles get hot, so you have to do it for 20sec remove, do it 20s, ect. We always had great luck with this.

All good except if you're going to use wax, you should go with the wax they use on jet airplanes.

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

We leave for his final derby in 15 minutes...believe it or not, he did the majority of the work on this car, including the overall design and laying out those cool stripes ;-)

BTW, the car stand was a project I had his den do last year as part of earning their "Craftsman" Webelos pin :-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Very cool! I've spent a lot of time talking with my wife about the time I shared with my parents and how much of an impact it has had on who I am. It is great to see all of you parents that care and give so much :)

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

Is that a Lego's cockpit?

Fucking Smurf-tastic! I give it 100 cool points.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Richard Pety, 1970-71 Plymoth Superbird, yeah my spelling sucks, but you know what car this is. 426 Hemi, Dodge, Plymoth It doesnt matter how you spell it, IT'S A HEMI!!!

Yep :-) Seeing as how the designer is a world class Lego/Bionicle freak (He actually prefers Legoland to Disneyland), I don't think he knows how to design ANYTHING without there being at least one Lego piece on it ;-)

Update on the event. That's a freakin' fast car. At the pack event his car did not lose a single race and had set the fastest time of the day all the way through the preliminary round of the "King of the Hill" competition (the winners of each den plus the 3 next fastest cars). Prior to the finals, the boys are allowed to relube the wheels, since depending on the number of boys in each den, they can have differing numbers of runs on the cars to that point. Well, in the finals, another car took a HUGE leap in performance and started beating my boy's car, even though his car actually went the fastest it had all day!

So...the final tally was: 1st place in the Webelos II den, and 2nd Place in "King of the Hill". I was sort of disappointed for him due to how dominating his car had been all day...but I've got to give him credit, he took it in stride and was happy just with the fact that was the best placing he'd done in his pack before.

Next up...District derby! I think we'll be "running in" the wheels a bit more before them...and working on his "relubing" technique ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Wow. Ours is pretty simple.

That is a cool car.

i never did pinewood derby as a scout. we did the space derby for a while (same concept, except the 'cars' had rubberband powered propellers and hung from fishing line) which was actually a lot of fun. Less engineering went into it and they go a heck of a lot faster then the pinewood cars. The other one was the rain gutter regatta, where you built wood boats and raced them side by side in rain gutters by blowing against the sail through a straw. I'd say it was a lot more exciting, as it was head to head competition between kids.

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sometimes you just have to eat the cake

Thanks! I thought he did a good job on it too...and, in actuality it's pretty simple. The main portion of the car is basically just a narrow slab with a slanted nose. The "cockpit" is an "add-on", i.e. a Lego piece :-)

Those things sticking out the back that look like rocket engines are really just a portion of some cylindrical lead weights that are embedded from the rear...one of our "tricks" for getting the weight as far back as possible...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I hate to say it, but as an MIT grad (those of us who are taught to do things on their own and have our own science experiments growing up) we often end up working for the guys who went to Harvard (who's fathers taught them to win at all cost and buy pre-made kits). We like to think we are better people though.