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Re: Tremblant 70.3 Rolling Start: Best Ever? [DieselPete] [ In reply to ]
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DieselPete wrote:
As an athlete who is preparing to enter my first 70.3 and for whom the greatest psychological barrier to participation is concern about the swim, I want to add that I find the idea of a rolling start as described to be far more inviting than a mass start or waves by age group. I've done a some open water races with a few hundred people and in waves of about fifty so I'm not completely inexperienced regarding open water and getting bumped around a bit. But I don't really look forward to charging into the water with 300 people.

I understand why the top AG competitors would want to know where they are relative to their competition but it seems the vast majority would want a smooth event, less bumping in the water and a better chance to set a best time or personal course record.

I probably would have done a first triathlon long ago if the swim start was something like seven competitors every seven seconds based on your projection of your finish time. That is far more inviting to me than any other options I have seen or read about.

Thanks for this input. I feel this format is getting better and better. I would like to see a release rate of around 2 athlete every 3 seconds which gives a race organizer one hour to send off 2400 athlete. Also I would suggest for the back half that they are not asked to line up 1 hour in advance. 2400 athletes over 1 hour would also reduce bike density vs 2400 over 40 minutes. This mainly only works on single loop swim courses.
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Re: Tremblant 70.3 Rolling Start: Best Ever? [Gary] [ In reply to ]
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I was pissed as well. The drafting was brutal. It was the most blatant I have ever seen. They officials were doing a good job but just need more of them. It wasn't an issue with too many riders but too many cheaters. Most weren't trying to move up or drop back but just sitting in. I got swallowed up at one point and then had to hammer to work my way past going up the long climb on the highway. As I was coming back through town they were still all together. I will just never understand it.
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Re: Tremblant 70.3 Rolling Start: Best Ever? [TOTRI] [ In reply to ]
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TOTRI wrote:
I was pissed as well. The drafting was brutal. It was the most blatant I have ever seen. They officials were doing a good job but just need more of them. It wasn't an issue with too many riders but too many cheaters. Most weren't trying to move up or drop back but just sitting in. I got swallowed up at one point and then had to hammer to work my way past going up the long climb on the highway. As I was coming back through town they were still all together. I will just never understand it.

I think at the end of the day, if you have 2400 athletes in 40 minutes, that is still more dense than during wave starts over an hour. On a down note, when you have wave start, the strong athletes from 20-24, 25-29 all the way up to 45-49 are all spead between their age group waves, so you don't get them clustered together. They get strung apart. The mop riders from each age group are also strung apart, but there is a "picking up effect" as stronger riders from a previous wave pick up semi strong riders from the wave in front. With the rolling start, largely you have similar ability riders leaving the water together meaning it will be harder to break them apart. I think you need to send all the riders in over 80 minutes to get the best spacing. Releasing them all in 40 minutes is twice the density of 80 minutes. But do race organizers have the option of starting over a longer period like this. Not possible at all venues. I don't know the answer at Tremblant.

Dev
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Re: Tremblant 70.3 Rolling Start: Best Ever? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I just think the penalty for drafting is too light. Make the first penalty 15min and the 2nd being a DQ. 5min isn't too much of a risk if you can potentially pick up 10-15 by sitting in for the ride. Not to mention what it does by saving your legs for the run.

People are choosing to draft. The mindset to jump on a wheel as it passes you won't change much if the reward is greater than the risk of getting caught.
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Re: Tremblant 70.3 Rolling Start: Best Ever? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Will the full change to a rolling start also?

I was in the first age group to go in the water last year, as a 1:25 swimmer, I got destroyed the entire swim. It was the most unpleasant experience I could imagine. I also did Arizona last year, which had a rolling start, the bottle necked the entry to the water with two entry spots that could only fit one person at a time... it was a great swim, barely any contact and set a PR.

I'd love to do IMMT again, but I won't put myself through that swim again.
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Re: Tremblant 70.3 Rolling Start: Best Ever? [DrunkIrishman] [ In reply to ]
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IMMT Full is a rolling start as well.
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Re: Tremblant 70.3 Rolling Start: Best Ever? [TOTRI] [ In reply to ]
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I have done a few rolling starts before, this one was good. No real complaints. Everyone seemed to seed themselves fairly well which helps.

I got swarmed by one bike pack out on 117. I was screaming and mocking all of them, and they didn't care. The big hill on 117 blew them apart and I flew by all of them again (because they can't ride unless they are in a peloton), but they caught back up to me again on Montee Ryan heading back in.

There were a lot of officials, and a lot of people in the tents. Bigger penalties for blatant drafting would help I suspect, but then it becomes a grey area of what is blatant and what isn't. The officials riding road bikes that were picking guys off were amazing, I only saw one but he rode right into the middle of the pack in front of me, sat there for a bit and then a bunch from that pack stopped at the tent. Is this new? If it is, keep doing it. Very effective, way better than a motorcycle.
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Re: Tremblant 70.3 Rolling Start: Best Ever? [McNabb] [ In reply to ]
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They had people on road bikes last year, which I thought was awesome. There was a point last year where I had 4 or 5 sitting on my wheel for a while. They eventually pulled past me and I was bitching at them for drafting. The last guy told me not to worry, which annoyed me even more, until he rode up and gave all of them drafting penalties. He came back to me and told me he was doing loops on 117 and people had no clue he was an official. I know I didn't!
Last edited by: TOTRI: Jun 28, 17 8:51
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Re: Tremblant 70.3 Rolling Start: Best Ever? [McNabb] [ In reply to ]
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McNabb wrote:
I have done a few rolling starts before, this one was good. No real complaints. Everyone seemed to seed themselves fairly well which helps.

I got swarmed by one bike pack out on 117. I was screaming and mocking all of them, and they didn't care. The big hill on 117 blew them apart and I flew by all of them again (because they can't ride unless they are in a peloton), but they caught back up to me again on Montee Ryan heading back in.

There were a lot of officials, and a lot of people in the tents. Bigger penalties for blatant drafting would help I suspect, but then it becomes a grey area of what is blatant and what isn't. The officials riding road bikes that were picking guys off were amazing, I only saw one but he rode right into the middle of the pack in front of me, sat there for a bit and then a bunch from that pack stopped at the tent. Is this new? If it is, keep doing it. Very effective, way better than a motorcycle.

I was thinking that having marshals on those silent electric scooters that can go 50 kph might add to the mix!
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Re: Tremblant 70.3 Rolling Start: Best Ever? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
McNabb wrote:
I have done a few rolling starts before, this one was good. No real complaints. Everyone seemed to seed themselves fairly well which helps.

I got swarmed by one bike pack out on 117. I was screaming and mocking all of them, and they didn't care. The big hill on 117 blew them apart and I flew by all of them again (because they can't ride unless they are in a peloton), but they caught back up to me again on Montee Ryan heading back in.

There were a lot of officials, and a lot of people in the tents. Bigger penalties for blatant drafting would help I suspect, but then it becomes a grey area of what is blatant and what isn't. The officials riding road bikes that were picking guys off were amazing, I only saw one but he rode right into the middle of the pack in front of me, sat there for a bit and then a bunch from that pack stopped at the tent. Is this new? If it is, keep doing it. Very effective, way better than a motorcycle.


I was thinking that having marshals on those silent electric scooters that can go 50 kph might add to the mix!

3rd year doing the 70.3 in Tremblant-and while I like your idea of the electric scooters, I think a few snipers is a better option...
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Re: Tremblant 70.3 Rolling Start: Best Ever? [TOTRI] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't know either! I just thought he was a spectator or medical/race support. Then he started picking people off, it was brilliant. I only saw one out on 117, but putting a dozen of these guys out there who just slot into the middle of the packs and hand out penalties would be really effective.
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Re: Tremblant 70.3 Rolling Start: Best Ever? [TOTRI] [ In reply to ]
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TOTRI wrote:
The rolling start was great from my perspective. Made for a less chaotic start for those that aren't the strongest swimmers.

There were roughly 500 more starters this year than last and I didn't find it was any more crowded on the bike or run course than last year.

Sorry for the odd way of asking a question so off topic. But it seems you did IMMT 70.3 this year. Did they have regular Gatorade on course or Gatorade Endurance? I'm doing IMMT and getting conflicting info on to which is being used.

I still lapped everyone on the couch!
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Re: Tremblant 70.3 Rolling Start: Best Ever? [Jloewe] [ In reply to ]
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Regular Gatorade was at the 70.3.
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