Mean education level of its adults. You can also get some insight by splitting that between men and women. Number of kids in an average family.

You can describe a country that is in the bottom quartile of any (or multiple) metric as "poor". I think that's less dismissive than the adjective used by the Donald.

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Less is more.

third world?



population density, if you want to move there (and if it's a small country; clearly population varies a lot in the US)

edit - just figured out this is probably Trump-related

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Alabama?

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

Third world and underdeveloped come to mind.

Seems like citizen's perceived quality of life would be a good metric. Access to quality healthcare, but that goes hand in hand with life expectancy. Access to clean water.

Shithole

Yes, Haiti is poor, weak and underdeveloped. But it's people are not shittier than those from places that are richer.
Sadly, there are too many people in positions of power who do think this way. I suppose, by extension, regular people from 'Anytown, Midwest' are shittier than the genteel millionaires from the UES (that the Upper East Side for you rubes earning less than a $1m/yr.)

And BTW, Trying to use that data to justify what he said is sad and pathetic.

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Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

So you equate calling a "nation" a shithole, to saying it's people are "shitty"?
That's a bit of an extrapolation. I would certainly call the USA a "great" nation, I wouldn't equate that to mean the people are great in general (bunch of USAssholes if you ask me;). There are a lot of people here that are pretty shitty (my opinion), including a disproportionate number in positions of government.

So i would interpret calling a country a "shithole" to saying the quality of life is not good, a lot of people there would much rather be somewhere else. I don't interpret that to mean the people are necessarily at fault. I would certainly agree "shithole" is not diplomatic or "nice", but that doesn't mean it isn't apt. Likewise, there are certainly countries that are militarily weak and underdeveloped where in many ways the quality life is somewhat good. For example some people might say that about Cuba because of the excellent public health and literacy. They may lack a great extent of modern conveniences, but their simple life is one some may find very good.

BTW, trying to ignore data and interpret everything in an emotional context (what you said made me feel bad, so it must be wrong and/or bad) is sad and pathetic.

Do you think Trump's greatest flaw is that he is an asshole (makes some people feel bad) or that he is a liar (ignores and fabricates data)?

The fact that he is an asshole doesn't really bother me, it is his ignorance of information (data). So, although I understand why some (snowflakes) would find his comments offensive, I have no emotional reaction to the fact that he called poor, underdeveloped countries shitholes, because 1) it is basically true and 2) the proof in the pudding is that if you went to Haiti today (after Trump's comments) and started offering immediate green card status to the US, 95 out of 100 people would probably take them and consider themselves lucky to live in a country lead by Donal J Trump.

#winning

#1 in Football, #789473944 in anything else.

Yeah, just ask Toyota and Mazda, Airbus, Boeing, Mercedes Benz, Remington, Hyundai and Kia. They have all built factories in Alabama, Toyota/Mazda announced their choice of Northern Alabama for their new car plant last week. Toyota/Mazda chose Alabama over 13 other locations, beating out NC, GA, MI, IN, and OH and 8 other states.

Keep on thinking that Alabama is a "sh#thole", we need to keep the rift raff out of one of the best kept secrets in the US.

What adjectives would you use to describe country X, or any country which has very low (say bottom quartile) metrics?

I would suggest it is corrupt because most poor countries are that way.

What are some other good objective metrics to describe a country?

First, judging it's military strength is probably the least important metric. For the vast majority of people, who cares how many fighter jets you have? For me, the relevant ones are,

1) What is the employment rate.
2) What is the average education level.
3) What percentage of families are together
4) Are the people happy?

So, to sum up, anyone offended by Trump's comments is a snowflake, you don't care that he's damaging the US's reputation around the world.

You beat me to it. Plus, Gulf Shores is one of the absolute best places in the entire United States.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Give me a break. Obama was supposed to elevate the reputation around the planet and, in 8 years, the US became more hated than before he took office. NO, that was NOT Obama's fault. I am pointing out a President has very little to do with how the US is hated (or loved) around the world.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

So, his "body of work", which includes a laundry list of racist-tinged, offensive and derogatory comments, doesn't constitute a data set worthy of consideration on it's own merits (no emotion involved )? Sure, some third world countries could be accurately described as shitholes, and this comment doesn't rise to the level of full-on racism, but given his history, it does impart at least a whiff of it.

And as far as choosing Trumps greatest flaw, that's a fool's erand - there are simply too many to choose from.

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"The will to win means nothing without the will to prepare" - Juma Ikangaa

http://www.litespeed.com

Well this president is doing his best to prove you wrong.

Come again? http://www.pewglobal.org/...ericas-global-image/

I mean, unless you're Russian...

Sure, lots of companies love building stuff in third world countries ;)

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

Right, 3rd world countries make cheap textiles and products too environmentally hazardous but easy to do like recycling electronics. Technology jobs that build cars, airliners, spacecraft and other high tech products aren't made in third world countries. Nice try my northern amigo, hope the cold weather isn't slowing down your thought process too badly!

A country that needs our help.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

I think by "around the world" he meant "Alabama."

In terms of life expectancy, which I would argue is more important than military strength, it’s the U.S that could use the help from 30 other countries.

Why? We die early because we live lives of excess. It is a choice. Would you rather not have that choice? Really?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

In honor of TheForge, I must insist that nobody here has any right to make any comment about any country unless they are a citizen of that country. Carry on....

Golden!

Plus, Halvard is from Norway, so he's on Trump's "most wanted" list! Poetic justice...

Well, Trump is an ignorant prick and they tend to stick together, so ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I am guessing when you called him an ignorant prick he wasn’t upset because all he heard was “Mmph mmph blmph” because of the droopy orange balls in your mouth.

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

As someone who lived in Alabama for 21 years, I actually laughed out loud at this...

Congratulations, you're competing in car assembly with Detroit with the new robotic factories that require like 12 people to build 1000 cars/day :)

Please. Using Ukraine as a typical example is ridiculous. Could you pick an even worse case on the planet (maybe Syria)? Overwhelmingly most war zones are due to internal strife (civil wars, military coups), not because of too little military spending. Even the strongest military in history can't stabilize small countries. BTW, wasn't Haiti's last invasion in 1934? (I can't see your link due to a firewall). Here:



I'm hard-pressed to see how massive military spending in the Middle East makes it better than South America, or how higher military spending in Africa beats Western Europe. I'll stick to boring criteria like life expectancy, GDP/capita, educational level, crime rates, etc., if that is okay....

agreed.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

It's funny how JSA will throw stuff and see what sticks...maybe it's his training as an attorney?
OK, going to say that we are hated more than ever after Obama without evidence but we will see. Maybe no one will bother checking.
Ooops, someone did. OK, let's talk shit about someone quick. The discussion patterns are so freaking predictable on this forum now.

Massachusetts

One village idiot leaves/banned and there is always a fight for who will take the new top spot. The jockeying this week is on.
This is as predictable as anything in this forum.

In terms of life expectancy, which I would argue is more important than military strength, it’s the U.S that could use the help from 30 other countries.

Why? We die early because we live lives of excess. It is a choice. Would you rather not have that choice? Really?

The countries with higher life expectancies also live lives of relative excess. The reasons for the lower rates in the U.S are because of far more deaths at a young age and the leading causes are motor vehicle accidents, drugs and firearms.

So, if you want help from us or any of the other developed 29 countries ahead of you, we would be more than happy to assist.

How many space systems does Detroit build? How many modern airliners are built in Detroit? Compare the quality that is associated with Mercedes Benz with Detroit cars, then say how we are "competing" with Detroit.

The actual competition was between a few southern states and Iowa, with the final decision between North Carolina and Alabama. Alabama won, mainly because it was capable of expanding rapidlt, in land, in resources and employees. NC was unable to guarantee that land would be available for expansion and that local employees could meet labor demands.

Easy...good score....just bringing up the point that the days of factories being huge job engines are gone. Nothing as lonely as an Amazon "fulfillment center" either. You want the people designing the cars, not just those who lube and troubleshoot the factory robots.

The space and military industries in Alabama are legit. You're doing well! Keep it up, 'Bama!

What are some other good objective metrics to describe a country?


An interesting index is the "happiness index".

Often their is an inverse correlation between GDP, relative wealth and that 'happiness" number.

Having spent some time in 3rd world and developing countries, it's rare to find people who are truly unhappy. Yet my neighbor, who lives in an $800,000 house, with a BMW, and Toyota parked in the drive-way, as he leans over and fiddles with his snow-blower, is Mr. negative-and-unhappy! There are a lot of people like him living in 1st World countries and few of them living in 3rd world and developing countries! Just an observation I've made from my travels, and those World Happiness Indexes I've seen.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

FTFY (from the perspective of someone outside the US).

Thanks, I work with both industries and its amazing how they are supporting small businesses and breaking new ground in science and research fields.

It's also fascinating how Alabama has the only Mercedes Benz plant in the U.S. and has achieved a quality level that MB is proud of. They even sponsor a marathon every year that goes through the plant grounds!

+1 Obama did advance relations with Russia even mocking those that disagreed with his policy. fwiw how’s that working out.

Your n=1 analysis really added to the discussion.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

It perfectly cancelled out your own n=1 sample set.

Which means Francois carries the day, and you lose.

It's so awesome when the internet works.

Yeah, but Francois (and possibly you) comes from a country with an elitist and racist immigration policy, so pardon me for not giving any credit to his (and possibly your) opinion.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

And also, remember before Obama there was George W Bush who really created a substantially negative view of the rest of the world towards the US when he chose to invade Iraq in the name of fighting weapons of mass destruction when there was no evidence there were any. The whole world knew that and it was obvious he went to Iraq for different reasons. At the same time it did a lot of harm to Brits and Tony Blair too. At that time, the US was also the nation that did not want to participate in the Kyoto climate change program - another thing viewed as heavily negative by the rest of the world.

Obama had a very different policy and gained much respect from the majority of other nations. He supported science, saving the planet, not going into new unnecessary wars, and diplomacy. It brought the US back as a leading nation. With Trump, we are becoming the one kid in the class that no longer gets invited to birthday parties. First the kid got invited but turned a few down, now the other kids have stopped inviting it. Europe and Asia are moving forward without the US in global policy, China is jumping into the gap the US is leaving and is fully embracing the opportunity. It will every hard to reverse this trend - other nations have no respect for Trump and by the time new leadership gets elected it may very well be too late as the US no longer can be trusted.

You couldn't have said it better. It'll take a Democratic president or two to undo the damage that Trump has done.

I think you are missing the point. While everyone was busy having fits about how Trump described under developed third world countries, he was busy forgiving a bunch of fines levied against major financial institutions for what was effectively "fraud" (although they never admitted to fraud, they agreed to billions in penalites) and nobody really seemed to notice.

Trump and the Republicans are going to keep winning until people actually get interested in things that matter. Likewise, you aren't going to win this argument, 30-40% of people in this country (including many who think he is a complete fool) would either outright agree with how he characterized these countries, or would say yes, it is mean, it is lacking class, but it is still true.

let's continues to argue about the adjectives to describe Haiti, tranny rights and what to do with the children of illegal immigrants while first the Republicans decided to add $1.5 trillion to the deficit to give a tax break to billionaires. You know they are coming for SS next, or maybe you won't even notice because you will be too busy getting offended about his latest tweet or how much golf he plays.

But let’s conveniently forget that Trump simply extended the waivers Obama already granted for paying the fines associated with the LIBOR scandal.

No Obama just got involved in a civil war in Syria and authorized an illegal war in Libya. Also loved killing civilians with drones and making relations worse across the Middle East.

And those same intelligence agencies you know hold up as being the center of truth regarding Russia are the same ones that told Bush there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Please make up your mind, it gets so hard listening to Democrats change the story to fit their ideals.

So you equate calling a "nation" a shithole, to saying it's people are "shitty"?
That's a bit of an extrapolation. I would certainly call the USA a "great" nation, I wouldn't equate that to mean the people are great in general (bunch of USAssholes if you ask me;). There are a lot of people here that are pretty shitty (my opinion), including a disproportionate number in positions of government.

So i would interpret calling a country a "shithole" to saying the quality of life is not good, a lot of people there would much rather be somewhere else. I don't interpret that to mean the people are necessarily at fault. I would certainly agree "shithole" is not diplomatic or "nice", but that doesn't mean it isn't apt. Likewise, there are certainly countries that are militarily weak and underdeveloped where in many ways the quality life is somewhat good. For example some people might say that about Cuba because of the excellent public health and literacy. They may lack a great extent of modern conveniences, but their simple life is one some may find very good.[/quote]
When the comment includes the idea that you don't want people from that country coming to your country I think the extrapolation is actually pretty logical.