Hello Tom-

If you enjoyed the movie and are interested in the book on which it was based, check out this interview with the former CIA agent that wrote the book:

http://www.npr.org/....php?storyId=5041385


I haven't seen the movie, but after hearing this guy talk, I'm interested.

Ken

The sub-plot of the young men being indoctrinated as terrorists is 100% spot-on text book. High marks for technical accuracy here. Unfortunately, the theme couldn't be as developed as it deserved- it could be a movie on its own, but the treatment of the topic within the movie is very, very good. The depiction of the use of a "Munro effect" shaped charge warhead IED is chilling in its realism.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Of course there is no bisiness/oil/government collusion!! PAH! that would NEVER happen and Dick Cheney would never meet with big oil executives to formulate national energy policy!!! Not in this country.

And CIA agents are never hung out to dry by their superiors for political gain. Just ask Valerie Plame.

Thanks for the review Tom, sounds like a great movie. Can't wait to see it....might do a Walk the Line/Syriana double bill this weekend while the missus is at the mall. I hate the frickin mall.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

I'm with you on the mall, and I want to see Walk the Line too.

Happy Holidays Matt.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Damn you Demerly...c'mon fight me like a man!!! ;-)

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

I saw it yesterday then spent 3 hours sitting over beers talking about it. Lots of whys, whos and whats. Our conclusion was that this could have easily been three movies—one about terrorists, one about big oil, and one about Bob—and they would have had time to answer all of our lingering questions. But, we agreed that the very point of the movie was to leave us a little confused—a little morally and emotionally unsure of who was right and wrong. There were so many contextual misdirects and deadends that by the time the movie ended I wasn't sure if I'd missed half the movie. But that's the point. The relationship between big oil (and I happen to believe it is likely closer than most think) and government agencies, both foreign and domestic, is such a mess of a tangled knot it can't be undone.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but it reminds me of that last line from "Three Days of the Condor" from Cliff Robertson -

Higgins: It's simple economics. Today it's oil, right? In ten or fifteen years, food. Plutonium. Maybe even sooner. Now, what do you think the people are gonna want us to do then?
Joe Turner: Ask them?
Higgins: Not now - then! Ask 'em when they're running out. Ask 'em when there's no heat in their homes and they're cold. Ask 'em when their engines stop. Ask 'em when people who have never known hunger start going hungry. You wanna know something? They won't want us to ask 'em. They'll just want us to get it for 'em!

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"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin
"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here." - Alvy Singer, "Annie Hall"

In almost all cases these little fables attribute more organization, co-ordination, expediency to conspiracy theories than could ever be real.

If you work for a Fortune 500 company- think about how hard it is to change the toilet paper acquisition process. Let alone co-ordinate a multi-national, military/business/banking/oil/political conspiracy.

The desire and motive may exist in some organizations and individuals, but the capability simply isn't there.

One walk though CIA Headquarters and you realize it is like any other large bureaucracy: Slow, convoluted, staffed by a lot of dedicated people, a few generally disinterested ones, they have a museum, a gift shop, and a place to wait in line for your pay check. They don't have an invisibile man program, LSD testing labs or aliens on slabs in the basement.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Ah...Three Days Of The Condor, one of my favorite movies ever. One of the first I bought on VHS MANY years ago! Looking forward to seeing "Syriana".

On the other hand, this is also the government that was able to deftly sell arms to the Iranians in return for cash and hostage releases, and then use the proceeds to illegally fund the Contras.

Quite a bit of jujitsu there, don't you think, and only enough bureaucracy to get them caught?

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"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin
"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here." - Alvy Singer, "Annie Hall"

I can't wait to see that movie.

A little bit of conspiracy and letting our own hang out to dry, read about this guy. Something else to make you think a little. I didn't read through this whole article, but have read about him before.



http://www.military.com/...F_0804_Idema,00.html

So my buddy suggests we take our wives out to see Syriana, a double date, thinking a guy-gal thriller ala "Mr & Mrs Smith". You know, beautiful faces with a love story and lots of gunfire. Another Oceans 11, this time set in the Middle East.

So the girls hate it, complaining of no sex scenes, not even a single kiss! We've obviously married the right gals. They're asking, what's with Bob's wife? Where was she? And another co-worker asks if Matt's kid was assassinated in the pool? That was the most obvious part of the whole movie.

My friend Rob suggested that the vulnerable Muslim youth (soon to be converted in an Al Qaida camp into terrorists) were portrayed as handsome and therefore easy to feel sorry for.

I figured George Clooney, with his leftist Hollywood buddies, would do a smear job on W and his oil buddies and the "Dynasty". I wasn't disappointed! I came away wondering why Bob was so tongue-tied after he pulled over the "good Prince" just before he was vaporized. What exactly was he going to say after all?

Summary: Not what you think going in, but quite entertaining.

" If you work for a Fortune 500 company- think about how hard it is to change the toilet paper acquisition process. Let alone co-ordinate a multi-national, military/business/banking/oil/political conspiracy.

The desire and motive may exist in some organizations and individuals, but the capability simply isn't there."

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Oh come on. It's frighteningly easy as long as you don't want to change the whole organisation. It's very easy to put a system in place to redirect funding as long as you have a few key people in the right places.

As long as your manager will sign it off, you can do almost anything in a big organisation.

Just saw the movie. Have to say it was well done, well structured, much like Traffic.

What I thought was interesting was that because the movie is done with interwoven plotlines which are confusing to the viewer, I think Gaghan is also trying to convey how confusing it is in reality, in that very few people see the big picture, and in fact, even want to know the big picture, if for no other reason than to have plausible deniability. I think this myopia also allows people to continue to indulge in their own fantasies of how the world really works or how they wish it would work (as in we're fighting for Iraqi freedom, etc.).

I think it's probably more plausible than you believe, as I noted, as Iran-Contra might suggest. I think you will agree however that the one thread which is undeniable is the willingness of institutions, governmental or otherwise, to engage in any activity necessary to maintain their survival, regardless of morality or long-term wisdom.

Does that mean I think we sanction the assassinations of rulers we deem "unfriendly"? Probably. It's not as if we haven't done it in the past (think Allende or Diem). I think the question of whether we do so to satisfy somewhat amorphous political/ideological aims or to further commercial interests is probably more an open question than it ever has been, but I may be naive in this way or overly cynical, depending on how you see it. I see the same thing occur when I see people who will simultaneously argue that what is in our commercial interest is justifiable regardless of misery inflicted, yet at the same time arguing we care about the freedom of others.

Interesting movie, will spur me to read Baer's book.

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"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin
"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here." - Alvy Singer, "Annie Hall"

You can make all of the conclusions you'd like... but this movie SUCKED! BORING. You would have to talk about it for three hours following just to try to convince yourself that you did not waste the $20 on a bad geo-political story. Do not try to elevate this weak movie. It is about how oil drives everything, much like oil drives political decisions made in the present day. Do not give Clooney any credit for provocative thought, just more hollywood "left coast" BS. This may be one of the worst movies of the year as the ticket sales show. Do not rent this movie let alone go to the theater and waste hard earned cash, instead, buy some GU's and go for a long run, you will be better for it.

I thought it was boring, I was expecting more shoot em up scenes. I actually fell asleep during the movie, but to each his own.

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http://home.pacbell.net/diana_do/knowjack.htm

Might go see it if George Clooney was not in it.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

We rushed back from the Mall (:-() to see walk the line only to be told it was a typo in the paper and wasn't showing yet! Darn it!

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"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

[reply]You can make all of the conclusions you'd like... but this movie SUCKED! BORING. You would have to talk about it for three hours following just to try to convince yourself that you did not waste the $20 on a bad geo-political story. Do not try to elevate this weak movie. It is about how oil drives everything, much like oil drives political decisions made in the present day. Do not give Clooney any credit for provocative thought, just more hollywood "left coast" BS. This may be one of the worst movies of the year as the ticket sales show. Do not rent this movie let alone go to the theater and waste hard earned cash, instead, buy some GU's and go for a long run, you will be better for it.[/reply]

you must have been the guy sitting next to me, who said to his pal as they got up to leave at the end, 'boy whoever wrote that movie has quite an imagination'

Go ahead and keep your head buried in that sand, just let me know if you see any oil while your under there. We could use it.

The movie was brilliant. It could have been judgemental. It wasn't. It showed the harsh reality that is so frightening most people can't handle it, and that is this : our entire modern way of life depends on a natural resource found under the countries of people that hate us.

I 'm as leftie as they come( or so I'm told, I think anyone who doesn't kiss limbaughs ass gets that label these days), but I came away from this movie understanding that exxon/mobil may be making what may seem to be obscene profits at times, but on the other hand, my way of life, and yours ( you spolied pampered pussies riding around on carbon fiber kids toys that cost more than some peoples cars) , depends on those companies, and the crap they have to pull to keep the economy flowing.

And the government sure as hell better intervene to keep those companies rich. It used to be said 'what's good for GM is good for america'

swap exxon/mobil for GM and you're got the 21st century version of that statement.

and by the way I count myself amongst those spoiled pampered pussies.
although I can't afford carbon fiber yet.

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"the trouble with normal is - it always gets worse"

- Cockburn

"but I came away from this movie understanding that..."

I don't think you should come away from any work of fiction with an understanding of anything. Poor wording, but I agree with your general assessment.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

[reply][b]"but I came away from this movie understanding that..."[/b]

I don't think you should come away from any work of fiction with an understanding of anything. Poor wording, but I agree with your general assessment.[/reply]

technically a work of fiction. but it wasn't mary poppins or the wizard of oz was it?

Whatever you call it, it's based in reality, and the writers observances of real life, not his imagination.

if we don't gain some understanding from a move like this, what is the point of it in the first place?

it's certainly not 'holday fare' as someone lamented earlier.

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"the trouble with normal is - it always gets worse"

- Cockburn

Yes, but so was "Fahrenheit 9/11". Not all facts presented were in context, and the filmmaker had a point of view and pushed that angle. I watched "control room" this week, and would say the same about it. Al Jazeera is not the independant voice of the muslim world as it presents itself as being, regardless of the factual events presented.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

It's very easy to put a system in place to redirect funding as long as you have a few key people in the right places.

You are right on. I worked in a Fortune 500 company and a co-worker, fresh out of getting his accounting designation, managed to wire $250K of a client's money, into his own bank account, after working there less than a year. A few well placed photo-copies, a few lapses in internal controls, and presto. He only got caught by a fluke. He also worked alone.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

interesting. you ever been a part of the CIA? because the author who was a career agent, says it is no fantasy.

and he may be a liar.

or maybe not.

you like to read? read the ugly american. and then tell me that is also a fantasy.

learn and it shall set you free....

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Where would you want to swim ?

regardless of your political thoughts on what is real or not, this movie was terrible. It made you want to walk out. Several people were asleep around us. This will be the last minute that I waste on this sleeper. Oh yea, fairly good cinematography.

We all take baggage into seeing movies - stress, sleep deprivation, actor prejudices; find more within the theatre - the dude with the hat in front of you, the girl on her cell phone, etc... so it is understandable that you might have found this movie boring, terrible, whatever.

With no reference to you U2, I would say the film makers assumed a general level of audience intelligence, significantly higher than say - The Dukes of Hazzard - and never dumbed it down. It was well acted and well done. Confusing, yes. But great fodder for after show discussions. Boring? Not at all. I would say this is one of those movies everyone should see.

My $.02

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http://www.cervelo.com