Go read HankRearden's post on the National Monuments thread.

I have no idea what Hank's post has to do with this.

I also can't see the merit in this argument:

The rule has been criticized by industry groups who say tip pooling is necessary to address the compensation gap between servers, who have been earning more as food prices increase, and untipped colleagues in the kitchen.

Having a hard time seeing a justification for the rule change, or even a reason why the administration is interested enough to take action on something like this.

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Did the dems put it in place? If so, it must go.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Why in heck should the feds be involved in this kind of minutia? Can't we just let employers and employees work out solutions themselves? Is it really necessary for the feds to involve themselves into every corner that seems to call for a "good idea"? Does the Constitution give them the authority to involve themselves in employee-employer minutia?

---

Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

In any good restaurant the waiters already tip out the non-tip help.

---

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

This. Good luck being a good server if your food runner doesn't prioritize you and your busser is helping someone else because they tip out more.

I also don't understand why the gov needs to get involved in this. Seems ridiculous.

---

Long Chile was a silly place.

It's been a long time since I was a busboy, but that was a tipped position, and paid at the tipped minimum wage. I think when they talk about kitchen help they mean people like dishwashers and cooks, who aren't tipped, and are paid at the regular minimum wage. Servers don't tip out kitchen help. (In my experience, anyway.)

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I guess it's different up here. I bussed then served and bar tended. The servers and bar tenders got the tips and tipped out accordingly to bussers, kitchen staff, food runners, dish washers, etc. The best servers were the best because they tipped out handsomely and people worked hard for them. The greedy ones never lasted long, and interestingly.enough the good servers still took home the most (despite tipping out more).

---

Long Chile was a silly place.

I agree. I don't know why the govt. is involved in something like this, but I feel that way about many issues.

I believe they originally got involved because employers and managers were taking a cut of the tips. People leave tips intending them for the employees and they end up in the owners' pockets.

Government is involved in all sorts of ways with wages and working conditions, so this isn't a stretch at all.

Your reaction may be (and mine was) who the hell would work at a place that steals your tips? But some people need a job, even a really shitty job with a really shitty owner.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Uhm its all about their income tax, so yes the fed fells the need to get involved.

Part of the tipping thing was a way to get servers more money with less taxes, then the Govt. saw they were losing revenue, and started predicting how much servers made in tips and charge them a tax, so then servers said hey you better tip me cause I am getting underpaid by my employer and taxed for the income you need to pay me.

So the fed had to decide how to handle this... How the changes in this law and pooling the money impacts the taxes... oh wait I bet under the new rules since the house pools the tips and hands them out they can report how much was paid out on w2's like regular income. Don't know just rambling.

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Yeah, I get the impression from a lot of the posters hear, they were not working at the local Denny's or Ihop, but talking about some slightly higher end restaurants.

Just leaves me back to why do we do this silly dance.

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Uhm for someone who doesn't tip you sure are the authority on tips.

---

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Don't buy into the myth.

I don't like tipping, I don't understand tipping. I rarely eat at restaurants, when I do I hate that tip line, so to ease my anxiety I give a 20 - 25% tip every time (Usually do a quick 20% calc in my head then round up)

Was at a brew pup for the holidays a few days ago, 1 beer. Bill came it was $4.80ish, I added $2 to the total.

But its one of the reasons I don't eat out often, just another thing that makes restaurants even more expensive then shown and makes the experience less relaxing for me.

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

No.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Yes. See my post below.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

What post?

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Well that clears nothing up.

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Just in case anyone really wants to understand this topic -

The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) set minimum wage that must be paid to all employees. Currently, minimum wage is $7.25/hour. Tipped employees may be paid a different minimum wage, currently $2.13/hour so long as the employer can show the employee receives at least $7.25/hr. In that case, the employer can take a tip credit and comply with the FLSA.

Before the Obama Rule, the employer could pool tips and distribute them to cooks, dish washers, and other kitchen employees. But, if they did so, they still had to demonstrate servers paid $2.13/hour were making at least $7.25/hour.

The Obama Rule banned tip pooling and said tips can only be given to servers. To get around this, several employers were having cooks and dish washers run out food so they were considered "servers." But, this created another problem.

In the past 30 years, compensation for servers has increased 300%. During that same period, compensation for cooks has increased 20%. The Obama Rule widened that gap.

If that rule is repealed, the employer can again pool tips. However, if the employer takes the tips from the servers, they cannot take the tip credit and must pay the servers at least $7.25/hour. That ain't gonna happen. So, all you people thinking the employer is going to pocket the tips, it ain't that easy. It wasn't an issue before the Obama Rule and it won't be if it is repealed.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I just posted it.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Cool thanks

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Trump owns hotels with restaurants in them, it really isn't that hard to make the connection. I am, of course very cynical when it comes to politicians and motives.

Not related to the tip splitting,

But I don't get why we don't just pay the people a fair wage.

I mean, I go out to eat with my wife, we both order Salad, and a lower end meal have water and maybe a desert we split. Bill lets say $40. Another couple walks in, orders a couple of beers, Surf and Turf, and Desert. They finish when I do. There bill $120. I tip a generous 25% so leave $10. the other guy is cheap and tips 15% and leaves $18.

Is the server more satisfied with the $10 tip for the hour work or the $18? Which communicates they did a good job $10 or $18 for the same work? Next week their area has only 1 table open, they can pick my wife and I or the other couple who would they prefer the 25% $10 tip or the 15% $18?

I just don't understand.

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Here is an example for you that may help but keep in mind I enjoy tipping.

We have a favorite restaurant. Nothing fancy; bar and grill type menu but they have a nice patio that allows dogs and has live music on fridays. We go every Friday, always call ahead to make sure our favorite server is working and get seated in her area. She always remembers our name, brings water and a treat for our dog, she remembers what is happening in our lives, she extends happy hour for us, allows special orders and offers honest meal and wine suggestions. All with a huge, positive smile.

Our dinner is usually $75-100. I generally leave her $50. Why, because she makes our experience outstanding.

Unfortunately she is gone now. Here replacements are average and we are back to being occasional customers. Since the service is average, we tip in the same manner.

My advice to you: if you are going to over think like you tend to do, don't go out. If you go out and someone makes your experience exceptional, reward them well with a good tip and frequent patronage. If they treat you like a cog in the wheel, leave a minimum tip.

---

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Boy do I over think everything, Thats why I have 5 work shirts (yes 1 for mon, 1 for tue ... ) Getting dressed in the morning got a whole lot simpler.

Oh on the tipping, I have said often I rarely go out, when I do I calculate 20% and round up. Unless the service is horrible, I tip about 5% or 10% round down, and then write on the receipt, something like sorry, bad service.

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Good plan!

---

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

If it weren't for all the monkeying with wages that goes on then tipping would be exactly what you describe. Instead we have 15-20% as a baseline and then are expected to go above if the service is really good. If a tip was really a tip, then you would just pay your bill if you got lousy service. If the service was average you might leave a buck or two, if it was exceptional you might leave 15-20%. That is where the argument for tipping or not comes in, it is not a tip anymore if extra is expected regardless of service.