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Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now
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Outgoing (meaning, soon to be fired) Louisville basketball coach Rick Pitino -- one of the superstar coaches of college b-ball -- was found to have pocketed an estimated 98% of the university's $38 million contract with athletic shoe and apparel maker Adidas for his players to wear the company's products. This revelation came to light in the wake of the FBI's ongoing investigation into corruption in college basketball.

In the two most recent seasons, Pitino reportedly received $3 million from Adidas under a personal services agreement while only $35,000 went to the basketball program. Louisville is college basketball royalty and one of the biggest of the big-time programs, having won the NCAA national championship over Michigan in the 2012-2013 season. It would make sense, then, that Adidas would want to develop a strong relationship with Pitino and his program, where a basketball recruit was alleged to have received $100,000 to play for the school.

Adidas and Louisville recently reached agreement on a new and even more lucrative contract, one which is worth $165 million total, and will pay $78 million in cash and apparel to the university's basketball program. Though not specific as to amounts, a portion of the payout is supposed to go to the basketball team's coaches.

Additionally, athletic director Tom Jurich's daughter was hired by Adidas earlier this year, and the school's governing board expressed its concern over the lack of information about the contract provided to them by the AD. His job appears to be on the line as well.

Upon news of the FBI investigation into Louisville's basketball program, the board quickly voted to initiate proceedings to fire Pitino 'for cause' -- most likely in an attempt to avoid paying the the coach's $44 million buyout. Pitino was placed on unpaid leave last week.

"The New York native and former NBA coach was placed on unpaid administrative leave last week after he was implicated in an alleged scheme to bribe the family of an elite recruit with $100,000 in funding provided by an Adidas executive, Jim Gatto, who was arrested as part of the FBI's investigation. Gatto was charged with wire fraud conspiracy, two counts of wire fraud, and money laundering conspiracy."

...

"According to acting U.S. attorney in Manhattan Joon H. Kim, the FBI investigation was launched in 2015 and focuses on 'the criminal influence of money on coaches and student-athletes who participate in intercollegiate basketball governed by the N.C.A.A.'

Specifically, the FBI is investigating two schemes: one in which recruits and their families were paid to go to particular universities and another in which player advisors were paid to persuade those players to sign with certain managers, agents, and financial advisors."

Pitino 'pocketed 98%' of U of L's $39 million Adidas deal | Daily Mail Online

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Oh man, the ncaa is going to come down so hard on cleveland state.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [AndysStrongAle] [ In reply to ]
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AndysStrongAle wrote:
Oh man, the ncaa is going to come down so hard on cleveland state.

Hahahahahahahaha! You make a good point, sir, sad to say.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
Oh man, the ncaa is going to come down so hard on cleveland state.

Hahahahahahahaha! You make a good point, sir, sad to say.

My school was given the ncaa death sentence 14 years ago for something much less but still extremely bad. It will be interesting to see the outcomes.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.





Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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For anyone that followed the Brian Bowen recruitment, it was pretty obvious it was crooked. He was a life long Spartan fan from Saginaw and it was long assumed he would play for MSU. His recruitment went well beyond signing day largely being a fight between MSU, Oregon and Creighton(?). Suddenly out of nowhere, he's enrolled at Loiusville when he had no connection to the school and had never even taken an official visit.

Between Bowen and Wiggins, I'm no longer disappointed when Izzo misses out on a big name recruit.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.

Yeah, UNC's violations were pretty egregious. Outlandishly egregious, is more like it. If I were an alumnus, or a still-matriculating student, I'd be pretty ticked at what all of that says about how highly the school values the degrees it awards to its graduates. And I wonder what the accrediting councils think of all this?

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.


Yeah, UNC's violations were pretty egregious. Outlandishly egregious, is more like it. If I were an alumnus, or a still-matriculating student, I'd be pretty ticked at what all of that says about how highly the school values the degrees it awards to its graduates. And I wonder what the accrediting councils think of all this?

I'm sure many UNC alumni and students are upset by it, but I haven't met one UNC basketball fan who is. After all, this wasn't an NCAA/sports issue, it was an internal academic issue that has been handled properly by the UNC administration.


There is a lot to be written in pink. As Dean Smith used to say - it's the "Carolina Way".

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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I think I heard that ruling was coming down at noon today.



jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.



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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
I think I heard that ruling was coming down at noon today.



jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.

If they don't get the NCAA version of the death penalty -- maybe for 10 years or even a shutdown of the sports programs found to be in such serious violation (plus an equally long bar of employment, at an NCAA-affiliated school, to the academics and advisers who willingly participated in the fraud) -- there's something wrong.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
Thom wrote:
I think I heard that ruling was coming down at noon today.



jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.


If they don't get the NCAA version of the death penalty -- maybe for 10 years or even a shutdown of the sports programs found to be in such serious violation (plus an equally long bar of employment, at an NCAA-affiliated school, to the academics and advisers who willingly participated in the fraud) -- there's something wrong.

Let me prepare you then - there is something wrong.

The NCAA is not going to give its golden child UNC the death penalty. After all, ol' Roy knew nothing about it daggumit.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [AndysStrongAle] [ In reply to ]
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AndysStrongAle wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
Oh man, the ncaa is going to come down so hard on cleveland state.

Hahahahahahahaha! You make a good point, sir, sad to say.

My school was given the ncaa death sentence 14 years ago for something much less but still extremely bad. It will be interesting to see the outcomes.

Morehouse or McMurray? Baylor's entire athletics program should get it as should UNC and Louisville.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
And I wonder what the accrediting councils think of all this?

I think this was the direction it was going in a few years ago. NCAA really doesn't have much power outside of athletics and said they were stuck between a rock and a hard place as they have no authority in academics. I think the accrediting councils were starting to go after the school and review the schools status. The academic guys sure don't care about athletics, but they do care about research money. So I am assuming nothing was done.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Wow that's a lot more than most politcians get in donations and they have to use it for their re-election campaigns. He could have got lots over the table, how much is enough? Greed.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
Oh man, the ncaa is going to come down so hard on cleveland state.


Hahahahahahahaha! You make a good point, sir, sad to say.


My school was given the ncaa death sentence 14 years ago for something much less but still extremely bad. It will be interesting to see the outcomes.


Morehouse or McMurray? Baylor's entire athletics program should get it as should UNC and Louisville.


St. Bonaventure. Our coach, AD and President thought it was a good idea to put in a welding certificate in place of an associates degree, playing an ineligible player. Quick summary of events: Whistle blower turned it into the board, board gave it to the NCAA, revoked scholarships and post season play (most players transferred anyway). Coach, president and AD fired. Chairman of the Board hung himself. Sad all around. Took the school 10 years to get back to it mid-major powerhouse potential.
Last edited by: AndysStrongAle: Oct 6, 17 6:55
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
Outgoing (meaning, soon to be fired) Louisville basketball coach Rick Pitino -- one of the superstar coaches of college b-ball -- was found to have pocketed an estimated 98% of the university's $38 million contract with athletic shoe and apparel maker Adidas for his players to wear the company's products. This revelation came to light in the wake of the FBI's ongoing investigation into corruption in college basketball.

In the two most recent seasons, Pitino reportedly received $3 million from Adidas under a personal services agreement while only $35,000 went to the basketball program. Louisville is college basketball royalty and one of the biggest of the big-time programs, having won the NCAA national championship over Michigan in the 2012-2013 season. It would make sense, then, that Adidas would want to develop a strong relationship with Pitino and his program, where a basketball recruit was alleged to have received $100,000 to play for the school.

Adidas and Louisville recently reached agreement on a new and even more lucrative contract, one which is worth $165 million total, and will pay $78 million in cash and apparel to the university's basketball program. Though not specific as to amounts, a portion of the payout is supposed to go to the basketball team's coaches.

Additionally, athletic director Tom Jurich's daughter was hired by Adidas earlier this year, and the school's governing board expressed its concern over the lack of information about the contract provided to them by the AD. His job appears to be on the line as well.

Upon news of the FBI investigation into Louisville's basketball program, the board quickly voted to initiate proceedings to fire Pitino 'for cause' -- most likely in an attempt to avoid paying the the coach's $44 million buyout. Pitino was placed on unpaid leave last week.

"The New York native and former NBA coach was placed on unpaid administrative leave last week after he was implicated in an alleged scheme to bribe the family of an elite recruit with $100,000 in funding provided by an Adidas executive, Jim Gatto, who was arrested as part of the FBI's investigation. Gatto was charged with wire fraud conspiracy, two counts of wire fraud, and money laundering conspiracy."

...

"According to acting U.S. attorney in Manhattan Joon H. Kim, the FBI investigation was launched in 2015 and focuses on 'the criminal influence of money on coaches and student-athletes who participate in intercollegiate basketball governed by the N.C.A.A.'

Specifically, the FBI is investigating two schemes: one in which recruits and their families were paid to go to particular universities and another in which player advisors were paid to persuade those players to sign with certain managers, agents, and financial advisors."

Pitino 'pocketed 98%' of U of L's $39 million Adidas deal | Daily Mail Online

This all went down last week. Pitino was put on unpaid leave, effectively fired, and now he is suing for breach of contract. I imagine Calipari is very happy right now he doesn't have an Adidas deal.

_____
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Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [AndysStrongAle] [ In reply to ]
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AndysStrongAle wrote:
windywave wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
Oh man, the ncaa is going to come down so hard on cleveland state.


Hahahahahahahaha! You make a good point, sir, sad to say.


My school was given the ncaa death sentence 14 years ago for something much less but still extremely bad. It will be interesting to see the outcomes.


Morehouse or McMurray? Baylor's entire athletics program should get it as should UNC and Louisville.


St. Bonaventure. Our coach, AD and President thought it was a good idea to put in a welding certificate in place of an associates degree, playing an ineligible player. Quick summary of events: Whistle blower turned it into the board, board gave it to the NCAA, revoked scholarships and post season play (most players transferred anyway). Coach, president and AD fired. Chairman of the Board hung himself. Sad all around. Took the school 10 years to get back to it mid-major powerhouse potential.

Um you didn't get the death penalty
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
Wow that's a lot more than most politcians get in donations and they have to use it for their re-election campaigns. He could have got lots over the table, how much is enough? Greed.

Addidas/Nike bears a lot of the blame here. They are hurting. They cannot compete with the Nike schools. Some of these top recruits will only go to Nike schools. So many universities are switching to Nike, bc of basketball alone. I know this, bc my university did just that (UT Vols). If addidas can sign just one of these recruits to a contract once they go pro, they get paid.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
windywave wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
Oh man, the ncaa is going to come down so hard on cleveland state.


Hahahahahahahaha! You make a good point, sir, sad to say.


My school was given the ncaa death sentence 14 years ago for something much less but still extremely bad. It will be interesting to see the outcomes.


Morehouse or McMurray? Baylor's entire athletics program should get it as should UNC and Louisville.


St. Bonaventure. Our coach, AD and President thought it was a good idea to put in a welding certificate in place of an associates degree, playing an ineligible player. Quick summary of events: Whistle blower turned it into the board, board gave it to the NCAA, revoked scholarships and post season play (most players transferred anyway). Coach, president and AD fired. Chairman of the Board hung himself. Sad all around. Took the school 10 years to get back to it mid-major powerhouse potential.


Um you didn't get the death penalty

Ok, true, I'll get you there. But for a small non power 5 school, it may as well have been.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [AndysStrongAle] [ In reply to ]
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AndysStrongAle wrote:
windywave wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
windywave wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
Oh man, the ncaa is going to come down so hard on cleveland state.


Hahahahahahahaha! You make a good point, sir, sad to say.


My school was given the ncaa death sentence 14 years ago for something much less but still extremely bad. It will be interesting to see the outcomes.


Morehouse or McMurray? Baylor's entire athletics program should get it as should UNC and Louisville.


St. Bonaventure. Our coach, AD and President thought it was a good idea to put in a welding certificate in place of an associates degree, playing an ineligible player. Quick summary of events: Whistle blower turned it into the board, board gave it to the NCAA, revoked scholarships and post season play (most players transferred anyway). Coach, president and AD fired. Chairman of the Board hung himself. Sad all around. Took the school 10 years to get back to it mid-major powerhouse potential.


Um you didn't get the death penalty

Ok, true, I'll get you there. But for a small non power 5 school, it may as well have been.

It was exponentially better than the death penalty. SMU still hasn't recovered
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
I think I heard that ruling was coming down at noon today.


[/quote]
The ruling has been delayed. The school announced "scheduling conflicts". Basically, Notre Dame is in town to play us in football & there are a lot of activities going on in Chapel Hill all weekend long. I assume the administration didn't want to put a damper on things.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [TheRef65] [ In reply to ]
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"This all went down last week. Pitino was put on unpaid leave, effectively fired, and now he is suing for breach of contract. I imagine Calipari is very happy right now he doesn't have an Adidas deal. "

What would Caliper have to worry about? He is pure as the driven snow. I don't recall any school he has been at ever getting in trouble while he was there.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [TheRef65] [ In reply to ]
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TheRef65 wrote:

. I imagine Calipari is very happy right now he doesn't have an Adidas deal.

Bill Self has an Adidas deal
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
"This all went down last week. Pitino was put on unpaid leave, effectively fired, and now he is suing for breach of contract. I imagine Calipari is very happy right now he doesn't have an Adidas deal. "

What would Caliper have to worry about? He is pure as the driven snow. I don't recall any school he has been at ever getting in trouble while he was there.

According to most news sources, Nike is the acknowledged king of college basketball, spending enormous amounts to ensure their shoes and apparel are worn by as many NCAA Division I teams as possible. Anyone who thinks those teams and Nike have been pure as the driven snow when it comes to deals and contract tie-ins they have with each other hasn't been following college sports over the years very closely.

Adidas is hoping to break the hammerlock Nike has on college b-ball and was doing whatever it took to muscle Nike out of a few of the major-major Division I schools. I'm sure part of Pitino's payout involved him trying to convince a few of his peers at the other schools to jump on the Adidas bandwagon. Of course, he'd have been paid some sort of referral or finder's fee for doing so, which he'd have gladly pocketed.

It's no different at UNC or any other major university Division I college basketball or football program. These schools ought to just strongarm the NCAA and openly pay these athletes for their services. But they won't, because the rules as they stand now allow them to "pay" most of these kids a pittance compared to their worth to the schools' athletic programs, enriching their bottom line and also fattening the wallets of ADs and coaches in real cash.

Most of the big schools with successful b-ball and football programs rely on the revenue generated by those two programs to slide a little money over to all the other sports teams and programs on campus, none of which make any money and which probably cost more than they bring in, so I have no problem with the revenue side of the house in basketball and football at the college level, just the hypocrisy and the way in which the athletes are used and not fairly compensated for their labors (and the whole "but they get a free-ride scholarship" thing is also part of the hypocrisy).

There are plenty of stories, past and present, of basketball and football players who have "graduated" from a big college and who never even attended a class or, if they did, never did anything in class -- yet received passing grades and even a diploma or degree. Some couldn't even read when they went into college and still couldn't read when they left. It's crazy.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
j p o wrote:
"This all went down last week. Pitino was put on unpaid leave, effectively fired, and now he is suing for breach of contract. I imagine Calipari is very happy right now he doesn't have an Adidas deal. "

What would Caliper have to worry about? He is pure as the driven snow. I don't recall any school he has been at ever getting in trouble while he was there.


According to most news sources, Nike is the acknowledged king of college basketball, spending enormous amounts to ensure their shoes and apparel are worn by as many NCAA Division I teams as possible. Anyone who thinks those teams and Nike have been pure as the driven snow when it comes to deals and contract tie-ins they have with each other hasn't been following college sports over the years very closely.

Adidas is hoping to break the hammerlock Nike has on college b-ball and was doing whatever it took to muscle Nike out of a few of the major-major Division I schools. I'm sure part of Pitino's payout involved him trying to convince a few of his peers at the other schools to jump on the Adidas bandwagon. Of course, he'd have been paid some sort of referral or finder's fee for doing so, which he'd have gladly pocketed.

It's no different at UNC or any other major university Division I college basketball or football program. These schools ought to just strongarm the NCAA and openly pay these athletes for their services. But they won't, because the rules as they stand now allow them to "pay" most of these kids a pittance compared to their worth to the schools' athletic programs, enriching their bottom line and also fattening the wallets of ADs and coaches in real cash.

Most of the big schools with successful b-ball and football programs rely on the revenue generated by those two programs to slide a little money over to all the other sports teams and programs on campus, none of which make any money and which probably cost more than they bring in, so I have no problem with the revenue side of the house in basketball and football at the college level, just the hypocrisy and the way in which the athletes are used and not fairly compensated for their labors (and the whole "but they get a free-ride scholarship" thing is also part of the hypocrisy).

There are plenty of stories, past and present, of basketball and football players who have "graduated" from a big college and who never even attended a class or, if they did, never did anything in class -- yet received passing grades and even a diploma or degree. Some couldn't even read when they went into college and still couldn't read when they left. It's crazy.

Your pink-dar isn't working today, is it?
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [TeamBarenaked] [ In reply to ]
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TeamBarenaked wrote:
TheRef65 wrote:


. I imagine Calipari is very happy right now he doesn't have an Adidas deal.


Bill Self has an Adidas deal

And he and Kansas were never mentioned in the the report put out by the FBI, unlike Louisville, Arizona St. Texas A&M and other schools.
Not saying they are entirely clean but there is evidence put out that implicates other schools.



-----------------------------------------------------------
Pain or damage don't end the world, or despair, or beatings. The world ends when you're dead, until then you're due for more punishment. Stand it like a man. And give some back.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]
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bluemonkeytri wrote:

Your pink-dar isn't working today, is it?

But Calipari's schools don't get in trouble while he is there.

He gets the hell out of town and they get in trouble after he is gone for what happened while he was there. Much like Pitino, I am sure he did not know about the bad things going on and they were just cases of a couple bad apples.

As to the OP, I cannot say for certain that Louisville is the most corrupt, but it might be a case of where you could only tie them and not beat them.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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This is the same school that hired Bobby Petrino as a football coach. The A.D. isn't looking good.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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jepvb wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Thom wrote:
I think I heard that ruling was coming down at noon today.



jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.


If they don't get the NCAA version of the death penalty -- maybe for 10 years or even a shutdown of the sports programs found to be in such serious violation (plus an equally long bar of employment, at an NCAA-affiliated school, to the academics and advisers who willingly participated in the fraud) -- there's something wrong.

Let me prepare you then - there is something wrong.

The NCAA is not going to give its golden child UNC the death penalty. After all, ol' Roy knew nothing about it daggumit.

Not the death penalty but I think the NCAA is chomping at the bit to come down hard on UNC and make a statement. However, by their own bylaws this is an academic issue and largely outside of their jurisdiction (aside from the interference by a women's basketball staffer with an academic advisor). I think they are going to announce significant penalties, and UNC will take them to court and win. Jay Bilas, who's both an attorney and basketball analyst, wrote a great piece on this a few months ago. Lots of biased and uninformed people writing about this situation; Jay's article was the most unbiased and rationale summary I've read.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [Patrick E] [ In reply to ]
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Patrick E wrote:
jepvb wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Thom wrote:
I think I heard that ruling was coming down at noon today.



jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.


If they don't get the NCAA version of the death penalty -- maybe for 10 years or even a shutdown of the sports programs found to be in such serious violation (plus an equally long bar of employment, at an NCAA-affiliated school, to the academics and advisers who willingly participated in the fraud) -- there's something wrong.


Let me prepare you then - there is something wrong.

The NCAA is not going to give its golden child UNC the death penalty. After all, ol' Roy knew nothing about it daggumit.


Not the death penalty but I think the NCAA is chomping at the bit to come down hard on UNC and make a statement. However, by their own bylaws this is an academic issue and largely outside of their jurisdiction (aside from the interference by a women's basketball staffer with an academic advisor). I think they are going to announce significant penalties, and UNC will take them to court and win. Jay Bilas, who's both an attorney and basketball analyst, wrote a great piece on this a few months ago. Lots of biased and uninformed people writing about this situation; Jay's article was the most unbiased and rationale summary I've read.

Thank you. BK and others are very misinformed about this case.

There is no doubt that there was wrong doing at UNC. But the wrongdoing is outside the purview of the NCAA. It is an accreditation issue related to SACS/COC at best. That's why the NCAA pivoted and tried to go after an institutional control issue and change the definition of impermissible benefits. The NCAA has egg on their face due to all this and continues to throw noodles against the walls to see what sticks.

You don't want the National Collegiate Athletic Association getting involved on the academic side, that would be a giant overstep. If you want to learn more, go read the articles about how the NCAA refused to let UNC even respond to some of the allegations and then brings up additional allegations before the next hearing. This investigation began in 2011. It is absurd it is still going on


At the end of the day, the NCAA bylaws are a bunch of crap. AJ Green sells his jersey and gets suspended within a few days. Others go on for years. Sometimes punishments are retroactive. Want to change the bylaws? Well, the power ultimately rests with the college and university Presidents. It's quite the circle jerk.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [Trispoke] [ In reply to ]
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Trispoke wrote:
Patrick E wrote:
jepvb wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Thom wrote:
I think I heard that ruling was coming down at noon today.



jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.


If they don't get the NCAA version of the death penalty -- maybe for 10 years or even a shutdown of the sports programs found to be in such serious violation (plus an equally long bar of employment, at an NCAA-affiliated school, to the academics and advisers who willingly participated in the fraud) -- there's something wrong.


Let me prepare you then - there is something wrong.

The NCAA is not going to give its golden child UNC the death penalty. After all, ol' Roy knew nothing about it daggumit.


Not the death penalty but I think the NCAA is chomping at the bit to come down hard on UNC and make a statement. However, by their own bylaws this is an academic issue and largely outside of their jurisdiction (aside from the interference by a women's basketball staffer with an academic advisor). I think they are going to announce significant penalties, and UNC will take them to court and win. Jay Bilas, who's both an attorney and basketball analyst, wrote a great piece on this a few months ago. Lots of biased and uninformed people writing about this situation; Jay's article was the most unbiased and rationale summary I've read.


Thank you. BK and others are very misinformed about this case.

There is no doubt that there was wrong doing at UNC. But the wrongdoing is outside the purview of the NCAA. It is an accreditation issue related to SACS/COC at best. That's why the NCAA pivoted and tried to go after an institutional control issue and change the definition of impermissible benefits. The NCAA has egg on their face due to all this and continues to throw noodles against the walls to see what sticks.

You don't want the National Collegiate Athletic Association getting involved on the academic side, that would be a giant overstep. If you want to learn more, go read the articles about how the NCAA refused to let UNC even respond to some of the allegations and then brings up additional allegations before the next hearing. This investigation began in 2011. It is absurd it is still going on


At the end of the day, the NCAA bylaws are a bunch of crap. AJ Green sells his jersey and gets suspended within a few days. Others go on for years. Sometimes punishments are retroactive. Want to change the bylaws? Well, the power ultimately rests with the college and university Presidents. It's quite the circle jerk.

I love the rationalizing and excuse-making and dancing-on-a-dime that goes on for some of these schools -- all of which seem to have at least one or two alumni patrolling this thread. ;-) Here, let's simply things:

THEY'RE CROOKED AND THEY CHEATED. What a shock.

COLLEGE B-BALL AND FOOTBALL ARE MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESSES FOR UNC, LOUISVILLE AND OTHER MAJOR COLLEGES. What a shock.

THEY'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO AVOID NCAA PENALTIES TO KEEP THAT MONEY ROLLING IN. What a shock.

Did that about sum it up?

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
big kahuna wrote:
Trispoke wrote:
Patrick E wrote:
jepvb wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Thom wrote:
I think I heard that ruling was coming down at noon today.



jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.


If they don't get the NCAA version of the death penalty -- maybe for 10 years or even a shutdown of the sports programs found to be in such serious violation (plus an equally long bar of employment, at an NCAA-affiliated school, to the academics and advisers who willingly participated in the fraud) -- there's something wrong.


Let me prepare you then - there is something wrong.

The NCAA is not going to give its golden child UNC the death penalty. After all, ol' Roy knew nothing about it daggumit.


Not the death penalty but I think the NCAA is chomping at the bit to come down hard on UNC and make a statement. However, by their own bylaws this is an academic issue and largely outside of their jurisdiction (aside from the interference by a women's basketball staffer with an academic advisor). I think they are going to announce significant penalties, and UNC will take them to court and win. Jay Bilas, who's both an attorney and basketball analyst, wrote a great piece on this a few months ago. Lots of biased and uninformed people writing about this situation; Jay's article was the most unbiased and rationale summary I've read.


Thank you. BK and others are very misinformed about this case.

There is no doubt that there was wrong doing at UNC. But the wrongdoing is outside the purview of the NCAA. It is an accreditation issue related to SACS/COC at best. That's why the NCAA pivoted and tried to go after an institutional control issue and change the definition of impermissible benefits. The NCAA has egg on their face due to all this and continues to throw noodles against the walls to see what sticks.

You don't want the National Collegiate Athletic Association getting involved on the academic side, that would be a giant overstep. If you want to learn more, go read the articles about how the NCAA refused to let UNC even respond to some of the allegations and then brings up additional allegations before the next hearing. This investigation began in 2011. It is absurd it is still going on


At the end of the day, the NCAA bylaws are a bunch of crap. AJ Green sells his jersey and gets suspended within a few days. Others go on for years. Sometimes punishments are retroactive. Want to change the bylaws? Well, the power ultimately rests with the college and university Presidents. It's quite the circle jerk.


I love the rationalizing and excuse-making and dancing-on-a-dime that goes on for some of these schools -- all of which seem to have at least one or two alumni patrolling this thread. ;-) Here, let's simply things:

THEY'RE CROOKED AND THEY CHEATED. What a shock.

COLLEGE B-BALL AND FOOTBALL ARE MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESSES FOR UNC, LOUISVILLE AND OTHER MAJOR COLLEGES. What a shock.

THEY'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO AVOID NCAA PENALTIES TO KEEP THAT MONEY ROLLING IN. What a shock.

Did that about sum it up?

So you don't understand the issue? Got it.

They are big, make millions, thus they must be corrupt. Got it.

Just curious, what NCAA rule did UNC break in their case. What is basketball? Football? Judo? All athletics? Tell us more
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [Trispoke] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Trispoke wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Trispoke wrote:
Patrick E wrote:
jepvb wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Thom wrote:
I think I heard that ruling was coming down at noon today.



jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.


If they don't get the NCAA version of the death penalty -- maybe for 10 years or even a shutdown of the sports programs found to be in such serious violation (plus an equally long bar of employment, at an NCAA-affiliated school, to the academics and advisers who willingly participated in the fraud) -- there's something wrong.


Let me prepare you then - there is something wrong.

The NCAA is not going to give its golden child UNC the death penalty. After all, ol' Roy knew nothing about it daggumit.


Not the death penalty but I think the NCAA is chomping at the bit to come down hard on UNC and make a statement. However, by their own bylaws this is an academic issue and largely outside of their jurisdiction (aside from the interference by a women's basketball staffer with an academic advisor). I think they are going to announce significant penalties, and UNC will take them to court and win. Jay Bilas, who's both an attorney and basketball analyst, wrote a great piece on this a few months ago. Lots of biased and uninformed people writing about this situation; Jay's article was the most unbiased and rationale summary I've read.


Thank you. BK and others are very misinformed about this case.

There is no doubt that there was wrong doing at UNC. But the wrongdoing is outside the purview of the NCAA. It is an accreditation issue related to SACS/COC at best. That's why the NCAA pivoted and tried to go after an institutional control issue and change the definition of impermissible benefits. The NCAA has egg on their face due to all this and continues to throw noodles against the walls to see what sticks.

You don't want the National Collegiate Athletic Association getting involved on the academic side, that would be a giant overstep. If you want to learn more, go read the articles about how the NCAA refused to let UNC even respond to some of the allegations and then brings up additional allegations before the next hearing. This investigation began in 2011. It is absurd it is still going on


At the end of the day, the NCAA bylaws are a bunch of crap. AJ Green sells his jersey and gets suspended within a few days. Others go on for years. Sometimes punishments are retroactive. Want to change the bylaws? Well, the power ultimately rests with the college and university Presidents. It's quite the circle jerk.


I love the rationalizing and excuse-making and dancing-on-a-dime that goes on for some of these schools -- all of which seem to have at least one or two alumni patrolling this thread. ;-) Here, let's simply things:

THEY'RE CROOKED AND THEY CHEATED. What a shock.

COLLEGE B-BALL AND FOOTBALL ARE MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESSES FOR UNC, LOUISVILLE AND OTHER MAJOR COLLEGES. What a shock.

THEY'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO AVOID NCAA PENALTIES TO KEEP THAT MONEY ROLLING IN. What a shock.

Did that about sum it up?


So you don't understand the issue? Got it.

They are big, make millions, thus they must be corrupt. Got it.

Just curious, what NCAA rule did UNC break in their case. What is basketball? Football? Judo? All athletics? Tell us more

To compete an athlete must be eligible.

The classes were fraudulent

The players were therefore ineligible

The University was complicit in the fraud

Institutional Control did not exist

Death Penalty ensues.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [windywave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
windywave wrote:
Trispoke wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Trispoke wrote:
Patrick E wrote:
jepvb wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Thom wrote:
I think I heard that ruling was coming down at noon today.



jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.


If they don't get the NCAA version of the death penalty -- maybe for 10 years or even a shutdown of the sports programs found to be in such serious violation (plus an equally long bar of employment, at an NCAA-affiliated school, to the academics and advisers who willingly participated in the fraud) -- there's something wrong.


Let me prepare you then - there is something wrong.

The NCAA is not going to give its golden child UNC the death penalty. After all, ol' Roy knew nothing about it daggumit.


Not the death penalty but I think the NCAA is chomping at the bit to come down hard on UNC and make a statement. However, by their own bylaws this is an academic issue and largely outside of their jurisdiction (aside from the interference by a women's basketball staffer with an academic advisor). I think they are going to announce significant penalties, and UNC will take them to court and win. Jay Bilas, who's both an attorney and basketball analyst, wrote a great piece on this a few months ago. Lots of biased and uninformed people writing about this situation; Jay's article was the most unbiased and rationale summary I've read.


Thank you. BK and others are very misinformed about this case.

There is no doubt that there was wrong doing at UNC. But the wrongdoing is outside the purview of the NCAA. It is an accreditation issue related to SACS/COC at best. That's why the NCAA pivoted and tried to go after an institutional control issue and change the definition of impermissible benefits. The NCAA has egg on their face due to all this and continues to throw noodles against the walls to see what sticks.

You don't want the National Collegiate Athletic Association getting involved on the academic side, that would be a giant overstep. If you want to learn more, go read the articles about how the NCAA refused to let UNC even respond to some of the allegations and then brings up additional allegations before the next hearing. This investigation began in 2011. It is absurd it is still going on


At the end of the day, the NCAA bylaws are a bunch of crap. AJ Green sells his jersey and gets suspended within a few days. Others go on for years. Sometimes punishments are retroactive. Want to change the bylaws? Well, the power ultimately rests with the college and university Presidents. It's quite the circle jerk.


I love the rationalizing and excuse-making and dancing-on-a-dime that goes on for some of these schools -- all of which seem to have at least one or two alumni patrolling this thread. ;-) Here, let's simply things:

THEY'RE CROOKED AND THEY CHEATED. What a shock.

COLLEGE B-BALL AND FOOTBALL ARE MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESSES FOR UNC, LOUISVILLE AND OTHER MAJOR COLLEGES. What a shock.

THEY'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO AVOID NCAA PENALTIES TO KEEP THAT MONEY ROLLING IN. What a shock.

Did that about sum it up?


So you don't understand the issue? Got it.

They are big, make millions, thus they must be corrupt. Got it.

Just curious, what NCAA rule did UNC break in their case. What is basketball? Football? Judo? All athletics? Tell us more


To compete an athlete must be eligible.

The classes were fraudulent

The players were therefore ineligible

The University was complicit in the fraud

Institutional Control did not exist

Death Penalty ensues.

If only life was so simple then millions of dollars and 6 years of investigations wouldn't be needed. But, again, it isn't that simple.

I suggest you look into 'institutional control' as defined by the NCAA and then ask if that is applicable. Keep in mind that upon investigation, UNC fired the professors and those complacent, disciplined several more. And we are talking about one small program in a giant University with probably 150 programs.

Then, as stated above, ask yourself if you want the NCAA meddling on the academic side of higher education. I suspect you don't know much about higher education administration or accreditation, compliance, etc. I spent a majority of my career in higher ed. It would scare the shit out of any administrator if the NCAA was able to overreach into that area. That's at the crux of this fight
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [Trispoke] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Trispoke wrote:
windywave wrote:
Trispoke wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Trispoke wrote:
Patrick E wrote:
jepvb wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Thom wrote:
I think I heard that ruling was coming down at noon today.



jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.


If they don't get the NCAA version of the death penalty -- maybe for 10 years or even a shutdown of the sports programs found to be in such serious violation (plus an equally long bar of employment, at an NCAA-affiliated school, to the academics and advisers who willingly participated in the fraud) -- there's something wrong.


Let me prepare you then - there is something wrong.

The NCAA is not going to give its golden child UNC the death penalty. After all, ol' Roy knew nothing about it daggumit.


Not the death penalty but I think the NCAA is chomping at the bit to come down hard on UNC and make a statement. However, by their own bylaws this is an academic issue and largely outside of their jurisdiction (aside from the interference by a women's basketball staffer with an academic advisor). I think they are going to announce significant penalties, and UNC will take them to court and win. Jay Bilas, who's both an attorney and basketball analyst, wrote a great piece on this a few months ago. Lots of biased and uninformed people writing about this situation; Jay's article was the most unbiased and rationale summary I've read.


Thank you. BK and others are very misinformed about this case.

There is no doubt that there was wrong doing at UNC. But the wrongdoing is outside the purview of the NCAA. It is an accreditation issue related to SACS/COC at best. That's why the NCAA pivoted and tried to go after an institutional control issue and change the definition of impermissible benefits. The NCAA has egg on their face due to all this and continues to throw noodles against the walls to see what sticks.

You don't want the National Collegiate Athletic Association getting involved on the academic side, that would be a giant overstep. If you want to learn more, go read the articles about how the NCAA refused to let UNC even respond to some of the allegations and then brings up additional allegations before the next hearing. This investigation began in 2011. It is absurd it is still going on


At the end of the day, the NCAA bylaws are a bunch of crap. AJ Green sells his jersey and gets suspended within a few days. Others go on for years. Sometimes punishments are retroactive. Want to change the bylaws? Well, the power ultimately rests with the college and university Presidents. It's quite the circle jerk.


I love the rationalizing and excuse-making and dancing-on-a-dime that goes on for some of these schools -- all of which seem to have at least one or two alumni patrolling this thread. ;-) Here, let's simply things:

THEY'RE CROOKED AND THEY CHEATED. What a shock.

COLLEGE B-BALL AND FOOTBALL ARE MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESSES FOR UNC, LOUISVILLE AND OTHER MAJOR COLLEGES. What a shock.

THEY'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO AVOID NCAA PENALTIES TO KEEP THAT MONEY ROLLING IN. What a shock.

Did that about sum it up?


So you don't understand the issue? Got it.

They are big, make millions, thus they must be corrupt. Got it.

Just curious, what NCAA rule did UNC break in their case. What is basketball? Football? Judo? All athletics? Tell us more


To compete an athlete must be eligible.

The classes were fraudulent

The players were therefore ineligible

The University was complicit in the fraud

Institutional Control did not exist

Death Penalty ensues.


If only life was so simple then millions of dollars and 6 years of investigations wouldn't be needed. But, again, it isn't that simple.

I suggest you look into 'institutional control' as defined by the NCAA and then ask if that is applicable. Keep in mind that upon investigation, UNC fired the professors and those complacent, disciplined several more. And we are talking about one small program in a giant University with probably 150 programs.

Then, as stated above, ask yourself if you want the NCAA meddling on the academic side of higher education. I suspect you don't know much about higher education administration or accreditation, compliance, etc. I spent a majority of my career in higher ed. It would scare the shit out of any administrator if the NCAA was able to overreach into that area. That's at the crux of this fight

So taking fraudulent HS classes bad taking them in college fine? The NCAA isn't meddling in academics, they will be punishing a school for having ineligible players.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
big kahuna wrote:
Trispoke wrote:
Patrick E wrote:
jepvb wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Thom wrote:
I think I heard that ruling was coming down at noon today.



jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.


If they don't get the NCAA version of the death penalty -- maybe for 10 years or even a shutdown of the sports programs found to be in such serious violation (plus an equally long bar of employment, at an NCAA-affiliated school, to the academics and advisers who willingly participated in the fraud) -- there's something wrong.


Let me prepare you then - there is something wrong.

The NCAA is not going to give its golden child UNC the death penalty. After all, ol' Roy knew nothing about it daggumit.


Not the death penalty but I think the NCAA is chomping at the bit to come down hard on UNC and make a statement. However, by their own bylaws this is an academic issue and largely outside of their jurisdiction (aside from the interference by a women's basketball staffer with an academic advisor). I think they are going to announce significant penalties, and UNC will take them to court and win. Jay Bilas, who's both an attorney and basketball analyst, wrote a great piece on this a few months ago. Lots of biased and uninformed people writing about this situation; Jay's article was the most unbiased and rationale summary I've read.


Thank you. BK and others are very misinformed about this case.

There is no doubt that there was wrong doing at UNC. But the wrongdoing is outside the purview of the NCAA. It is an accreditation issue related to SACS/COC at best. That's why the NCAA pivoted and tried to go after an institutional control issue and change the definition of impermissible benefits. The NCAA has egg on their face due to all this and continues to throw noodles against the walls to see what sticks.

You don't want the National Collegiate Athletic Association getting involved on the academic side, that would be a giant overstep. If you want to learn more, go read the articles about how the NCAA refused to let UNC even respond to some of the allegations and then brings up additional allegations before the next hearing. This investigation began in 2011. It is absurd it is still going on


At the end of the day, the NCAA bylaws are a bunch of crap. AJ Green sells his jersey and gets suspended within a few days. Others go on for years. Sometimes punishments are retroactive. Want to change the bylaws? Well, the power ultimately rests with the college and university Presidents. It's quite the circle jerk.

I love the rationalizing and excuse-making and dancing-on-a-dime that goes on for some of these schools -- all of which seem to have at least one or two alumni patrolling this thread. ;-) Here, let's simply things:

THEY'RE CROOKED AND THEY CHEATED. What a shock.

COLLEGE B-BALL AND FOOTBALL ARE MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESSES FOR UNC, LOUISVILLE AND OTHER MAJOR COLLEGES. What a shock.

THEY'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO AVOID NCAA PENALTIES TO KEEP THAT MONEY ROLLING IN. What a shock.

Did that about sum it up?

Did you even read the two responses above? How about Jay bilas's story? He's clearly no UNC fanboy; he's in fact a duke grad. No rationalising or excuse making involved - they were flat out wrong and it's embarrassing for anyone associated with the school. The point is under the NCAA's own rules the academic issues are outside their purview. And these classes were taken by athletes and non-athletes alike. In fact the majority of students taking these classes were not athletes so these were not impermissible benefits. Sorry that facts are getting the way of your narrative.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
big kahuna wrote:
Trispoke wrote:
Patrick E wrote:
jepvb wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Thom wrote:
I think I heard that ruling was coming down at noon today.



jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.


If they don't get the NCAA version of the death penalty -- maybe for 10 years or even a shutdown of the sports programs found to be in such serious violation (plus an equally long bar of employment, at an NCAA-affiliated school, to the academics and advisers who willingly participated in the fraud) -- there's something wrong.


Let me prepare you then - there is something wrong.

The NCAA is not going to give its golden child UNC the death penalty. After all, ol' Roy knew nothing about it daggumit.


Not the death penalty but I think the NCAA is chomping at the bit to come down hard on UNC and make a statement. However, by their own bylaws this is an academic issue and largely outside of their jurisdiction (aside from the interference by a women's basketball staffer with an academic advisor). I think they are going to announce significant penalties, and UNC will take them to court and win. Jay Bilas, who's both an attorney and basketball analyst, wrote a great piece on this a few months ago. Lots of biased and uninformed people writing about this situation; Jay's article was the most unbiased and rationale summary I've read.


Thank you. BK and others are very misinformed about this case.

There is no doubt that there was wrong doing at UNC. But the wrongdoing is outside the purview of the NCAA. It is an accreditation issue related to SACS/COC at best. That's why the NCAA pivoted and tried to go after an institutional control issue and change the definition of impermissible benefits. The NCAA has egg on their face due to all this and continues to throw noodles against the walls to see what sticks.

You don't want the National Collegiate Athletic Association getting involved on the academic side, that would be a giant overstep. If you want to learn more, go read the articles about how the NCAA refused to let UNC even respond to some of the allegations and then brings up additional allegations before the next hearing. This investigation began in 2011. It is absurd it is still going on


At the end of the day, the NCAA bylaws are a bunch of crap. AJ Green sells his jersey and gets suspended within a few days. Others go on for years. Sometimes punishments are retroactive. Want to change the bylaws? Well, the power ultimately rests with the college and university Presidents. It's quite the circle jerk.

I love the rationalizing and excuse-making and dancing-on-a-dime that goes on for some of these schools -- all of which seem to have at least one or two alumni patrolling this thread. ;-) Here, let's simply things:

THEY'RE CROOKED AND THEY CHEATED. What a shock.

COLLEGE B-BALL AND FOOTBALL ARE MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESSES FOR UNC, LOUISVILLE AND OTHER MAJOR COLLEGES. What a shock.

THEY'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO AVOID NCAA PENALTIES TO KEEP THAT MONEY ROLLING IN. What a shock.

Did that about sum it up?

UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking and disturbing, and was profoundly disappointing for those of who thought that the percentage of B-ball players that graduated was something to be proud of, but apparently not.

But, I think it's safe to say that any Div 1 powerhouse in either football or basketball is, for all intents and purposes, simply a farm team for the pros (to include UNC). The quaint notion of the student athlete at the big schools has been dead for probably 50+ years, if not more. There is now too much money for the schools and the NCAA to upset the apple cart. Any team that is competitive for a national championship in either football or basketball is more than likely guilty of some fairly major infractions. I haven't really watched much college sports for quite a long time, to include watching my alma mater, because the whole premise is simply a falsehood. It seems to me, and this is just spit balling here, but the influx of huge dollars from TV changed college sports forever, and not in a good way.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Great points, all, sir. Well said.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [Patrick E] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Patrick E wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Trispoke wrote:
Patrick E wrote:
jepvb wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Thom wrote:
I think I heard that ruling was coming down at noon today.



jepvb wrote:
The happiest program to hear about the Adidas scandal is UNC - now everyone has forgotten that at least 2 of their national championships were won using players who weren't taking classes.


Still waiting for the NCAA to come down hard on the 'Heels.


If they don't get the NCAA version of the death penalty -- maybe for 10 years or even a shutdown of the sports programs found to be in such serious violation (plus an equally long bar of employment, at an NCAA-affiliated school, to the academics and advisers who willingly participated in the fraud) -- there's something wrong.


Let me prepare you then - there is something wrong.

The NCAA is not going to give its golden child UNC the death penalty. After all, ol' Roy knew nothing about it daggumit.


Not the death penalty but I think the NCAA is chomping at the bit to come down hard on UNC and make a statement. However, by their own bylaws this is an academic issue and largely outside of their jurisdiction (aside from the interference by a women's basketball staffer with an academic advisor). I think they are going to announce significant penalties, and UNC will take them to court and win. Jay Bilas, who's both an attorney and basketball analyst, wrote a great piece on this a few months ago. Lots of biased and uninformed people writing about this situation; Jay's article was the most unbiased and rationale summary I've read.


Thank you. BK and others are very misinformed about this case.

There is no doubt that there was wrong doing at UNC. But the wrongdoing is outside the purview of the NCAA. It is an accreditation issue related to SACS/COC at best. That's why the NCAA pivoted and tried to go after an institutional control issue and change the definition of impermissible benefits. The NCAA has egg on their face due to all this and continues to throw noodles against the walls to see what sticks.

You don't want the National Collegiate Athletic Association getting involved on the academic side, that would be a giant overstep. If you want to learn more, go read the articles about how the NCAA refused to let UNC even respond to some of the allegations and then brings up additional allegations before the next hearing. This investigation began in 2011. It is absurd it is still going on


At the end of the day, the NCAA bylaws are a bunch of crap. AJ Green sells his jersey and gets suspended within a few days. Others go on for years. Sometimes punishments are retroactive. Want to change the bylaws? Well, the power ultimately rests with the college and university Presidents. It's quite the circle jerk.


I love the rationalizing and excuse-making and dancing-on-a-dime that goes on for some of these schools -- all of which seem to have at least one or two alumni patrolling this thread. ;-) Here, let's simply things:

THEY'RE CROOKED AND THEY CHEATED. What a shock.

COLLEGE B-BALL AND FOOTBALL ARE MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESSES FOR UNC, LOUISVILLE AND OTHER MAJOR COLLEGES. What a shock.

THEY'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO AVOID NCAA PENALTIES TO KEEP THAT MONEY ROLLING IN. What a shock.

Did that about sum it up?


Did you even read the two responses above? How about Jay bilas's story? He's clearly no UNC fanboy; he's in fact a duke grad. No rationalising or excuse making involved - they were flat out wrong and it's embarrassing for anyone associated with the school. The point is under the NCAA's own rules the academic issues are outside their purview. And these classes were taken by athletes and non-athletes alike. In fact the majority of students taking these classes were not athletes so these were not impermissible benefits. Sorry that facts are getting the way of your narrative.

Like I said: dancing on a dime and rationalizing. And as far as Bilas goes, I'm reminded of The Bard's Henry VI: "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

In legal parlance, what Mr. Lawyer Jay Bilas is yammering about would be called "getting off on a technicality." And all that lawerly parsing and fine-print-tea-leaves-reading is part of the problem with major college football and basketball.

It's simple: They're all dirty, big papa. Everyone knows it, but I guess there's prestige for alumni and students when a university wins one of those NCAA national championships, so they're willing to give a pass to behaviors that are egregiously, outlandishly UNETHICAL and possibly CRIMINAL and which bring dishonor and shame on the entire university.

Like I also said, those Division I schools should just come clean, band together and strongarm the NCAA and put these kids on the payroll and be open and aboveboard about things, rather than to keep pushing this facade of the "student-athlete," at least in the aforementioned two sports.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This editorial sums up my feelings pretty well.

https://pilotonline.com/...6e-2a8b1be25a49.html

I'll let the legal experts who know the ins and outs of NCAA authority comment on whether the NCAA actually has jurisdiction here. I respect Bilas' opinion. I'm sure the NCAA has attorneys who can make a reasonable argument on the other side.

What irks me is UNC's handling of all of this. The editorial points out what everyone is forgetting - UNC could've taken care of this themselves. Any self-respecting university would have. And for an institution that has preached the "Carolina Way" for so many decades, this is what many of us expected. Instead, what did Carolina do? They lawyered up, and kept those National Championship banners flying in the Dean Dome. In other words, they didn't do anything. Sure, we've been promised that the administration has handled this internally. But as far as ramifications for the athletic department - zilch.

Its pathetic, and everyone UNC fan should be ashamed. But most that I know aren't. It's all about the victories, at any cost.

I pray that if this ever happened at UVA, they would do the right thing. Until then, I'll keep believing that my alma mater has some shred of integrity left when it comes to athletics. We now know that was never the case at UNC.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Good editorial. If I was a UNC athlete, I'd be embarrassed by it all.

I'm very interested to see the final results, but first we really need to see what the NCAA comes up with as penalties. I think we all know what they should pay a high price, but will the NCAA crucify one of their biggest revenue schools? Can they win if they did?

If I was a betting man I would say its already been negotiated and UNC will lose few scholarships and receive a light slap on the wrist.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [AndysStrongAle] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
AndysStrongAle wrote:
Good editorial. If I was a UNC athlete, I'd be embarrassed by it all.

I'm very interested to see the final results, but first we really need to see what the NCAA comes up with as penalties. I think we all know what they should pay a high price, but will the NCAA crucify one of their biggest revenue schools? Can they win if they did?

If I was a betting man I would say its already been negotiated and UNC will lose few scholarships and receive a light slap on the wrist.

From the link:
The NCAA’s response will reveal a lot about how it punishes schools that make a mockery of the organization’s stated goal that college athletes should be considered students first.

This urinates me off to no end!!! The NCAA does not treat any institution equally! PERIOD! They punish with zero consistency. I will be honest, I am a UTK graduate. I love me some basketball. The NCAA fucked us so hard with both Bruce Pearl and Donnie Tendal. Did Donnie deserve it? Yes, some punishment is acceptable. But does anyone here know that they gave him a 10 year show cause!? Bruce Pearl did lie to his superiors. Okay, I get that. But to give him a 3 year ban for a fucking grill out? Sorry rant off.

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spot wrote:

UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........

Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
japarker24 wrote:
spot wrote:


UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........


Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?

I'm a UNC grad and an academic administrator (not at UNC). Most people seem to think that something like this has to be a huge conspiracy and tons of people knew about it and were complicit. But I can grant any student academic credit and a good grade with a keystroke. I have the authority to change grades and devise any directed individual study that I would want to. That is what happened in the African American studies program. Only takes a couple people for this to happen.

Not condoning it, but I can see quite easily how it occurred. This really is outside the area the NCAA has rules about. The students were not ineligible by NCAA rules. SACS does have authority over this, and they put them on probation. But the fact of the matter is that SACS doesn't want to really censor UNC either.


****************

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [NCtri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
NCtri wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
spot wrote:


UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........


Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?

I'm a UNC grad and an academic administrator (not at UNC). Most people seem to think that something like this has to be a huge conspiracy and tons of people knew about it and were complicit. But I can grant any student academic credit and a good grade with a keystroke. I have the authority to change grades and devise any directed individual study that I would want to. That is what happened in the African American studies program. Only takes a couple people for this to happen.

Not condoning it, but I can see quite easily how it occurred. This really is outside the area the NCAA has rules about. The students were not ineligible by NCAA rules. SACS does have authority over this, and they put them on probation. But the fact of the matter is that SACS doesn't want to really censor UNC either.

How do you arrive at a determination that they were eligible to participate when the classes were fraudulent?
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [NCtri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
NCtri wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
spot wrote:


UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........


Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?


I'm a UNC grad and an academic administrator (not at UNC). Most people seem to think that something like this has to be a huge conspiracy and tons of people knew about it and were complicit. But I can grant any student academic credit and a good grade with a keystroke. I have the authority to change grades and devise any directed individual study that I would want to. That is what happened in the African American studies program. Only takes a couple people for this to happen.

Not condoning it, but I can see quite easily how it occurred. This really is outside the area the NCAA has rules about. The students were not ineligible by NCAA rules. SACS does have authority over this, and they put them on probation. But the fact of the matter is that SACS doesn't want to really censor UNC either.

I don't dispute that this whole scandal was caused by a few bad apples. But if the UNC administration didn't know about it then, they certainly do now.

And what has this UNC administration done to punish the athletic teams that participated in this mess (and won national championships)? Nothing.

I thought UNC was a "public Ivy"? What about the "Carolina Way"? Didn't Charles Kuralt call UNC "the University of the people"?

What a load of crap - UNC is trash.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [NCtri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
NCtri wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
spot wrote:


UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........


Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?


I'm a UNC grad and an academic administrator (not at UNC). Most people seem to think that something like this has to be a huge conspiracy and tons of people knew about it and were complicit. But I can grant any student academic credit and a good grade with a keystroke. I have the authority to change grades and devise any directed individual study that I would want to. That is what happened in the African American studies program. Only takes a couple people for this to happen.

Not condoning it, but I can see quite easily how it occurred. This really is outside the area the NCAA has rules about. The students were not ineligible by NCAA rules. SACS does have authority over this, and they put them on probation. But the fact of the matter is that SACS doesn't want to really censor UNC either.

You. You're the reason why tuition's so high. It's all your fault!!

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
japarker24 wrote:
spot wrote:

UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........

Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?

Yeah, I do. If that means I was naive, so be it.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jepvb wrote:
NCtri wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
spot wrote:


UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........


Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?


I'm a UNC grad and an academic administrator (not at UNC). Most people seem to think that something like this has to be a huge conspiracy and tons of people knew about it and were complicit. But I can grant any student academic credit and a good grade with a keystroke. I have the authority to change grades and devise any directed individual study that I would want to. That is what happened in the African American studies program. Only takes a couple people for this to happen.

Not condoning it, but I can see quite easily how it occurred. This really is outside the area the NCAA has rules about. The students were not ineligible by NCAA rules. SACS does have authority over this, and they put them on probation. But the fact of the matter is that SACS doesn't want to really censor UNC either.

I don't dispute that this whole scandal was caused by a few bad apples. But if the UNC administration didn't know about it then, they certainly do now.

And what has this UNC administration done to punish the athletic teams that participated in this mess (and won national championships)? Nothing.

I thought UNC was a "public Ivy"? What about the "Carolina Way"? Didn't Charles Kuralt call UNC "the University of the people"?

What a load of crap - UNC is trash.

That's a tad harsh. As I said previously, I would bet money that any Div 1 school with a shot a national championship probably has similar skeletons in the closet. If UNC is trash, so are all the rest of them.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [windywave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
windywave wrote:
NCtri wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
spot wrote:


UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........


Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?


I'm a UNC grad and an academic administrator (not at UNC). Most people seem to think that something like this has to be a huge conspiracy and tons of people knew about it and were complicit. But I can grant any student academic credit and a good grade with a keystroke. I have the authority to change grades and devise any directed individual study that I would want to. That is what happened in the African American studies program. Only takes a couple people for this to happen.

Not condoning it, but I can see quite easily how it occurred. This really is outside the area the NCAA has rules about. The students were not ineligible by NCAA rules. SACS does have authority over this, and they put them on probation. But the fact of the matter is that SACS doesn't want to really censor UNC either.


How do you arrive at a determination that they were eligible to participate when the classes were fraudulent?

What is the impact on a regular full-time student who participated in one of these classes? I am asking honestly, what you think the impact is? Does their degree mean less? Should they come back to college and take the course over? Does the college not grant them 3 hours of course credit? Is it the student's fault? Do they shoulder the blame?

And in your estimation what made the class fraudulent? Was it all of the classes? Some of them? Where is the line between academic fraud and a shitty professor? I've been involved in numerous academic fraud cases. The range is really wide.

This is why it is a very complex case and not as simple as you want it to be. And lastly, what does the NCAA bylaws say on the matter?
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [Trispoke] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Trispoke wrote:
windywave wrote:
NCtri wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
spot wrote:


UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........


Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?


I'm a UNC grad and an academic administrator (not at UNC). Most people seem to think that something like this has to be a huge conspiracy and tons of people knew about it and were complicit. But I can grant any student academic credit and a good grade with a keystroke. I have the authority to change grades and devise any directed individual study that I would want to. That is what happened in the African American studies program. Only takes a couple people for this to happen.

Not condoning it, but I can see quite easily how it occurred. This really is outside the area the NCAA has rules about. The students were not ineligible by NCAA rules. SACS does have authority over this, and they put them on probation. But the fact of the matter is that SACS doesn't want to really censor UNC either.


How do you arrive at a determination that they were eligible to participate when the classes were fraudulent?

What is the impact on a regular full-time student who participated in one of these classes? I am asking honestly, what you think the impact is? Does their degree mean less? Should they come back to college and take the course over? Does the college not grant them 3 hours of course credit? Is it the student's fault? Do they shoulder the blame?

And in your estimation what made the class fraudulent? Was it all of the classes? Some of them? Where is the line between academic fraud and a shitty professor? I've been involved in numerous academic fraud cases. The range is really wide.

This is why it is a very complex case and not as simple as you want it to be. And lastly, what does the NCAA bylaws say on the matter?

I'll take both of UNC's independent investigations for 100 Alex.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [windywave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
windywave wrote:
Trispoke wrote:
windywave wrote:
NCtri wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
spot wrote:


UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........


Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?


I'm a UNC grad and an academic administrator (not at UNC). Most people seem to think that something like this has to be a huge conspiracy and tons of people knew about it and were complicit. But I can grant any student academic credit and a good grade with a keystroke. I have the authority to change grades and devise any directed individual study that I would want to. That is what happened in the African American studies program. Only takes a couple people for this to happen.

Not condoning it, but I can see quite easily how it occurred. This really is outside the area the NCAA has rules about. The students were not ineligible by NCAA rules. SACS does have authority over this, and they put them on probation. But the fact of the matter is that SACS doesn't want to really censor UNC either.


How do you arrive at a determination that they were eligible to participate when the classes were fraudulent?

What is the impact on a regular full-time student who participated in one of these classes? I am asking honestly, what you think the impact is? Does their degree mean less? Should they come back to college and take the course over? Does the college not grant them 3 hours of course credit? Is it the student's fault? Do they shoulder the blame?

And in your estimation what made the class fraudulent? Was it all of the classes? Some of them? Where is the line between academic fraud and a shitty professor? I've been involved in numerous academic fraud cases. The range is really wide.

This is why it is a very complex case and not as simple as you want it to be. And lastly, what does the NCAA bylaws say on the matter?

I'll take both of UNC's independent investigations for 100 Alex.

That's what I thought. As usual, you have nothing to add to a thread. Maybe you can join us at the big kids table for a discussion one day.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [Trispoke] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Trispoke wrote:
windywave wrote:
Trispoke wrote:
windywave wrote:
NCtri wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
spot wrote:


UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........


Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?


I'm a UNC grad and an academic administrator (not at UNC). Most people seem to think that something like this has to be a huge conspiracy and tons of people knew about it and were complicit. But I can grant any student academic credit and a good grade with a keystroke. I have the authority to change grades and devise any directed individual study that I would want to. That is what happened in the African American studies program. Only takes a couple people for this to happen.

Not condoning it, but I can see quite easily how it occurred. This really is outside the area the NCAA has rules about. The students were not ineligible by NCAA rules. SACS does have authority over this, and they put them on probation. But the fact of the matter is that SACS doesn't want to really censor UNC either.


How do you arrive at a determination that they were eligible to participate when the classes were fraudulent?

What is the impact on a regular full-time student who participated in one of these classes? I am asking honestly, what you think the impact is? Does their degree mean less? Should they come back to college and take the course over? Does the college not grant them 3 hours of course credit? Is it the student's fault? Do they shoulder the blame?

And in your estimation what made the class fraudulent? Was it all of the classes? Some of them? Where is the line between academic fraud and a shitty professor? I've been involved in numerous academic fraud cases. The range is really wide.

This is why it is a very complex case and not as simple as you want it to be. And lastly, what does the NCAA bylaws say on the matter?

I'll take both of UNC's independent investigations for 100 Alex.

That's what I thought. As usual, you have nothing to add to a thread. Maybe you can join us at the big kids table for a discussion one day.

Um donkey fucker both the Martin Report and Weinstein report found significant fraud, to the point where the only reason the department chair avoided indictment was because he cooperated with investigators. What about the hundreds of unexplained impermissible grade changes that disproportionately happened to athletes? Prima facie evidence for athletes eligibility being in question. The rot in academia is deep which is why no academics want the charade exposed.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spot wrote:
jepvb wrote:
NCtri wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
spot wrote:


UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........


Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?


I'm a UNC grad and an academic administrator (not at UNC). Most people seem to think that something like this has to be a huge conspiracy and tons of people knew about it and were complicit. But I can grant any student academic credit and a good grade with a keystroke. I have the authority to change grades and devise any directed individual study that I would want to. That is what happened in the African American studies program. Only takes a couple people for this to happen.

Not condoning it, but I can see quite easily how it occurred. This really is outside the area the NCAA has rules about. The students were not ineligible by NCAA rules. SACS does have authority over this, and they put them on probation. But the fact of the matter is that SACS doesn't want to really censor UNC either.


I don't dispute that this whole scandal was caused by a few bad apples. But if the UNC administration didn't know about it then, they certainly do now.

And what has this UNC administration done to punish the athletic teams that participated in this mess (and won national championships)? Nothing.

I thought UNC was a "public Ivy"? What about the "Carolina Way"? Didn't Charles Kuralt call UNC "the University of the people"?

What a load of crap - UNC is trash.


That's a tad harsh. As I said previously, I would bet money that any Div 1 school with a shot a national championship probably has similar skeletons in the closet. If UNC is trash, so are all the rest of them.

I don't think it is harsh at all. What I'm focused on is how UNC has handled this since the story broke. Yeah, of course the academic fraud was really bad. But I'll give UNC the benefit of the doubt and assume that the fraud was carried on by a few professors, TAs, academic advisors - that seems to be the case. What makes UNC trash is that the top level administrators have done everything in their power to sweep this under the rug since the revelations were made - basically lawyering up, delaying the NCAA investigation for as long as possible, and doing nothing internally to punish the athletic teams that benefitted from this fraud - mainly, the basketball and football teams.

It shows UNC's true colors and makes their whole "Carolina Way" mantra complete BS.

I'm not sure how you define having "a shot at a national championship". I assume you are referring to revenue sports only. I wouldn't bet money that all competitive schools in basketball and football have skeletons in the closet. Moreover, I absolutely wouldn't bet money that all competitive schools would handle themselves the way UNC has if similar incidents occurred at their school. Hell, Louisville imposed sanctions on itself after the prostitution scandal a couple years ago. If Louisville is doing a better job of imposing discipline on itself than you are, you are seriously messed up - that's UNC.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jepvb wrote:
spot wrote:
jepvb wrote:
NCtri wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
spot wrote:


UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........


Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?


I'm a UNC grad and an academic administrator (not at UNC). Most people seem to think that something like this has to be a huge conspiracy and tons of people knew about it and were complicit. But I can grant any student academic credit and a good grade with a keystroke. I have the authority to change grades and devise any directed individual study that I would want to. That is what happened in the African American studies program. Only takes a couple people for this to happen.

Not condoning it, but I can see quite easily how it occurred. This really is outside the area the NCAA has rules about. The students were not ineligible by NCAA rules. SACS does have authority over this, and they put them on probation. But the fact of the matter is that SACS doesn't want to really censor UNC either.


I don't dispute that this whole scandal was caused by a few bad apples. But if the UNC administration didn't know about it then, they certainly do now.

And what has this UNC administration done to punish the athletic teams that participated in this mess (and won national championships)? Nothing.

I thought UNC was a "public Ivy"? What about the "Carolina Way"? Didn't Charles Kuralt call UNC "the University of the people"?

What a load of crap - UNC is trash.


That's a tad harsh. As I said previously, I would bet money that any Div 1 school with a shot a national championship probably has similar skeletons in the closet. If UNC is trash, so are all the rest of them.


I don't think it is harsh at all. What I'm focused on is how UNC has handled this since the story broke. Yeah, of course the academic fraud was really bad. But I'll give UNC the benefit of the doubt and assume that the fraud was carried on by a few professors, TAs, academic advisors - that seems to be the case. What makes UNC trash is that the top level administrators have done everything in their power to sweep this under the rug since the revelations were made - basically lawyering up, delaying the NCAA investigation for as long as possible, and doing nothing internally to punish the athletic teams that benefitted from this fraud - mainly, the basketball and football teams.

It shows UNC's true colors and makes their whole "Carolina Way" mantra complete BS.

I'm not sure how you define having "a shot at a national championship". I assume you are referring to revenue sports only. I wouldn't bet money that all competitive schools in basketball and football have skeletons in the closet. Moreover, I absolutely wouldn't bet money that all competitive schools would handle themselves the way UNC has if similar incidents occurred at their school. Hell, Louisville imposed sanctions on itself after the prostitution scandal a couple years ago. If Louisville is doing a better job of imposing discipline on itself than you are, you are seriously messed up - that's UNC.

"Plausible deniability." That's what the top leadership at UNC -- in the academic/administrative realm as well as over at the athletic department -- seem to be betting on.

This reminds me of Richard Nixon and the Watergate scandal in the way Nixon tried to claim he knew nothing, nothing, of what CREEP ("Committee to Reelect the President") and the plumbers were up to.

I'm sure the admin leaders and the academic deans at UNC were shocked, shocked I tell you, that some rogue professor and a few TAs were doing all that stuff, right? ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jepvb wrote:
spot wrote:
jepvb wrote:
NCtri wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
spot wrote:


UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........


Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?


I'm a UNC grad and an academic administrator (not at UNC). Most people seem to think that something like this has to be a huge conspiracy and tons of people knew about it and were complicit. But I can grant any student academic credit and a good grade with a keystroke. I have the authority to change grades and devise any directed individual study that I would want to. That is what happened in the African American studies program. Only takes a couple people for this to happen.

Not condoning it, but I can see quite easily how it occurred. This really is outside the area the NCAA has rules about. The students were not ineligible by NCAA rules. SACS does have authority over this, and they put them on probation. But the fact of the matter is that SACS doesn't want to really censor UNC either.


I don't dispute that this whole scandal was caused by a few bad apples. But if the UNC administration didn't know about it then, they certainly do now.

And what has this UNC administration done to punish the athletic teams that participated in this mess (and won national championships)? Nothing.

I thought UNC was a "public Ivy"? What about the "Carolina Way"? Didn't Charles Kuralt call UNC "the University of the people"?

What a load of crap - UNC is trash.


That's a tad harsh. As I said previously, I would bet money that any Div 1 school with a shot a national championship probably has similar skeletons in the closet. If UNC is trash, so are all the rest of them.


I don't think it is harsh at all. What I'm focused on is how UNC has handled this since the story broke. Yeah, of course the academic fraud was really bad. But I'll give UNC the benefit of the doubt and assume that the fraud was carried on by a few professors, TAs, academic advisors - that seems to be the case. What makes UNC trash is that the top level administrators have done everything in their power to sweep this under the rug since the revelations were made - basically lawyering up, delaying the NCAA investigation for as long as possible, and doing nothing internally to punish the athletic teams that benefitted from this fraud - mainly, the basketball and football teams.

It shows UNC's true colors and makes their whole "Carolina Way" mantra complete BS.

I'm not sure how you define having "a shot at a national championship". I assume you are referring to revenue sports only. I wouldn't bet money that all competitive schools in basketball and football have skeletons in the closet. Moreover, I absolutely wouldn't bet money that all competitive schools would handle themselves the way UNC has if similar incidents occurred at their school. Hell, Louisville imposed sanctions on itself after the prostitution scandal a couple years ago. If Louisville is doing a better job of imposing discipline on itself than you are, you are seriously messed up - that's UNC.

Findings are out. Sorry to burst your bubble.

GDTBATH!!!!

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:
spot wrote:
jepvb wrote:
NCtri wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
spot wrote:


UNC grad here. Yes, what UNC did was absolutely shocking ..........


Also, a UNC grad. Do you really believe the bold part?


I'm a UNC grad and an academic administrator (not at UNC). Most people seem to think that something like this has to be a huge conspiracy and tons of people knew about it and were complicit. But I can grant any student academic credit and a good grade with a keystroke. I have the authority to change grades and devise any directed individual study that I would want to. That is what happened in the African American studies program. Only takes a couple people for this to happen.

Not condoning it, but I can see quite easily how it occurred. This really is outside the area the NCAA has rules about. The students were not ineligible by NCAA rules. SACS does have authority over this, and they put them on probation. But the fact of the matter is that SACS doesn't want to really censor UNC either.


I don't dispute that this whole scandal was caused by a few bad apples. But if the UNC administration didn't know about it then, they certainly do now.

And what has this UNC administration done to punish the athletic teams that participated in this mess (and won national championships)? Nothing.

I thought UNC was a "public Ivy"? What about the "Carolina Way"? Didn't Charles Kuralt call UNC "the University of the people"?

What a load of crap - UNC is trash.


That's a tad harsh. As I said previously, I would bet money that any Div 1 school with a shot a national championship probably has similar skeletons in the closet. If UNC is trash, so are all the rest of them.


I don't think it is harsh at all. What I'm focused on is how UNC has handled this since the story broke. Yeah, of course the academic fraud was really bad. But I'll give UNC the benefit of the doubt and assume that the fraud was carried on by a few professors, TAs, academic advisors - that seems to be the case. What makes UNC trash is that the top level administrators have done everything in their power to sweep this under the rug since the revelations were made - basically lawyering up, delaying the NCAA investigation for as long as possible, and doing nothing internally to punish the athletic teams that benefitted from this fraud - mainly, the basketball and football teams.

It shows UNC's true colors and makes their whole "Carolina Way" mantra complete BS.

I'm not sure how you define having "a shot at a national championship". I assume you are referring to revenue sports only. I wouldn't bet money that all competitive schools in basketball and football have skeletons in the closet. Moreover, I absolutely wouldn't bet money that all competitive schools would handle themselves the way UNC has if similar incidents occurred at their school. Hell, Louisville imposed sanctions on itself after the prostitution scandal a couple years ago. If Louisville is doing a better job of imposing discipline on itself than you are, you are seriously messed up - that's UNC.


Findings are out. Sorry to burst your bubble.

GDTBATH!!!!

Initial reports are that the NCAA is doing nothing to UNC - I'm shocked!


https://pilotonline.com/...c8-126be03aa327.html


I'm so glad I have nothing to do with that school - what a complete cesspool.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jepvb wrote:

Initial reports are that the NCAA is doing nothing to UNC - I'm shocked!


Because they can't. They don't have jurisdiction. That has been clear from the very beginning.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:

Initial reports are that the NCAA is doing nothing to UNC - I'm shocked!


Because they can't. They don't have jurisdiction. That has been clear from the very beginning.

Tell that to PSU
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


Initial reports are that the NCAA is doing nothing to UNC - I'm shocked!



Because they can't. They don't have jurisdiction. That has been clear from the very beginning.

Um, yeah that's why my statement was in pink. It means I am actually not shocked.

Upon a quick review the report seems to state what everyone thought it would state - UNC cheated deliberately, and there is nothing the NCAA can do about it.

You must be so proud.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [windywave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
windywave wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


Initial reports are that the NCAA is doing nothing to UNC - I'm shocked!



Because they can't. They don't have jurisdiction. That has been clear from the very beginning.


Tell that to PSU

I didn't agree with how that was handled.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [Trispoke] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There you have it...

http://www.espn.com/...academics-fraud-case


Tons of wrongdoing but outside the purview of the NCAA. They don't get to define what happens in the classroom.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [Trispoke] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
AAU should boot UNC out
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [Trispoke] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Trispoke wrote:
There you have it...

http://www.espn.com/...academics-fraud-case


Tons of wrongdoing but outside the purview of the NCAA. They don't get to define what happens in the classroom.

UNC has just created the blueprint for cheating related to athlete eligibility: Create fake classes for athletes, but make sure that all students at the college are able to take said fake classes. The latter point is very important because this is what makes the NCAA unable to act.

Mind you - the above is what UNC actually argued in this investigation, and it worked.

Shameless.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jepvb wrote:

You must be so proud.

Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


You must be so proud.


Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........


Its a real shame you can't be proud of your own alma mater. I'm certainly proud of mine.

You keep on believing that every other D1 school does the same thing UNC did if it makes you feel better.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
Last edited by: jepvb: Oct 13, 17 9:20
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [Trispoke] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Trispoke wrote:
There you have it...

http://www.espn.com/...academics-fraud-case


Tons of wrongdoing but outside the purview of the NCAA. They don't get to define what happens in the classroom.

Or in this case, what doesn't happen in the classroom.....
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:

You must be so proud.

Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........

But it doesn't hence the rub
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [windywave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
windywave wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


You must be so proud.


Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........


But it doesn't hence the rub

It doesn't take much research to discover that there are a fair number of college athletes at many universities in this country with minimal reading skills. Certainly, something is going on at those colleges as well. While Google is top loaded with stories about UNC, dig a little in those articles and others and you'll find stories about plenty of other schools, even places like Creighton.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


You must be so proud.


Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........


But it doesn't hence the rub

It doesn't take much research to discover that there are a fair number of college athletes at many universities in this country with minimal reading skills. Certainly, something is going on at those colleges as well. While Google is top loaded with stories about UNC, dig a little in those articles and others and you'll find stories about plenty of other schools, even places like Creighton.

He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [windywave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
windywave wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


You must be so proud.


Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........


But it doesn't hence the rub


It doesn't take much research to discover that there are a fair number of college athletes at many universities in this country with minimal reading skills. Certainly, something is going on at those colleges as well. While Google is top loaded with stories about UNC, dig a little in those articles and others and you'll find stories about plenty of other schools, even places like Creighton.


He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.

And I would say you're pretty naive, if you think that there aren't any athletes at those 20 schools who have no business being there, and yet are passing their classes and graduating.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [windywave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
windywave wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


You must be so proud.


Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........


But it doesn't hence the rub


It doesn't take much research to discover that there are a fair number of college athletes at many universities in this country with minimal reading skills. Certainly, something is going on at those colleges as well. While Google is top loaded with stories about UNC, dig a little in those articles and others and you'll find stories about plenty of other schools, even places like Creighton.


He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.

Its futile to argue with these apologists.

"UNC is no worse than every other school!" Uh huh.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


You must be so proud.


Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........


But it doesn't hence the rub


It doesn't take much research to discover that there are a fair number of college athletes at many universities in this country with minimal reading skills. Certainly, something is going on at those colleges as well. While Google is top loaded with stories about UNC, dig a little in those articles and others and you'll find stories about plenty of other schools, even places like Creighton.


He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.

And I would say you're pretty naive, if you think that there aren't any athletes at those 20 schools who have no business being there, and yet are passing their classes and graduating.

11 schools that fit your criteria
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


You must be so proud.


Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........


But it doesn't hence the rub


It doesn't take much research to discover that there are a fair number of college athletes at many universities in this country with minimal reading skills. Certainly, something is going on at those colleges as well. While Google is top loaded with stories about UNC, dig a little in those articles and others and you'll find stories about plenty of other schools, even places like Creighton.


He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.


And I would say you're pretty naive, if you think that there aren't any athletes at those 20 schools who have no business being there, and yet are passing their classes and graduating.

So now you are calling schools who let in athletes "who have no business being there" cheaters on the same level as UNC?

Priceless.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jepvb wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


You must be so proud.


Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........


But it doesn't hence the rub


It doesn't take much research to discover that there are a fair number of college athletes at many universities in this country with minimal reading skills. Certainly, something is going on at those colleges as well. While Google is top loaded with stories about UNC, dig a little in those articles and others and you'll find stories about plenty of other schools, even places like Creighton.


He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.


And I would say you're pretty naive, if you think that there aren't any athletes at those 20 schools who have no business being there, and yet are passing their classes and graduating.


So now you are calling schools who let in athletes "who have no business being there" cheaters on the same level as UNC?

Priceless.

Clearly you didn't read the previous post. Explain to me how someone who could barely read and or write and yet can still pass classes at a university, and even graduate. Happens at more universities than just UNC.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spot wrote:
jepvb wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


You must be so proud.


Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........


But it doesn't hence the rub


It doesn't take much research to discover that there are a fair number of college athletes at many universities in this country with minimal reading skills. Certainly, something is going on at those colleges as well. While Google is top loaded with stories about UNC, dig a little in those articles and others and you'll find stories about plenty of other schools, even places like Creighton.


He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.


And I would say you're pretty naive, if you think that there aren't any athletes at those 20 schools who have no business being there, and yet are passing their classes and graduating.


So now you are calling schools who let in athletes "who have no business being there" cheaters on the same level as UNC?

Priceless.


Clearly you didn't read the previous post. Explain to me how someone who could barely read and or write and yet can still pass classes at a university, and even graduate. Happens at more universities than just UNC.

And WHEN they get caught they will fry. "They" in this case are the so called D1 schools who are not NCAA darlings or royalty. And they will fry from the NCAA or some other academic oversight committee. When said academic oversight committee decides to come down on UNC, then I will change my tune. Absolutely ZERO consistency from NCAA. ZERO!
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [satchmo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
satchmo wrote:
spot wrote:
jepvb wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


You must be so proud.


Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........


But it doesn't hence the rub


It doesn't take much research to discover that there are a fair number of college athletes at many universities in this country with minimal reading skills. Certainly, something is going on at those colleges as well. While Google is top loaded with stories about UNC, dig a little in those articles and others and you'll find stories about plenty of other schools, even places like Creighton.


He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.


And I would say you're pretty naive, if you think that there aren't any athletes at those 20 schools who have no business being there, and yet are passing their classes and graduating.


So now you are calling schools who let in athletes "who have no business being there" cheaters on the same level as UNC?

Priceless.


Clearly you didn't read the previous post. Explain to me how someone who could barely read and or write and yet can still pass classes at a university, and even graduate. Happens at more universities than just UNC.


And WHEN they get caught they will fry. "They" in this case are the so called D1 schools who are not NCAA darlings or royalty. And they will fry from the NCAA or some other academic oversight committee. When said academic oversight committee decides to come down on UNC, then I will change my tune. Absolutely ZERO consistency from NCAA. ZERO!

Oh, I'm not arguing against that at all. I think that there are definitely schools that get preferential treatment from the NCAA; UNC, Duke, etc. Completely agree that there is very little consistency in what gets punished and to what severity.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spot wrote:
jepvb wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


You must be so proud.


Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........


But it doesn't hence the rub


It doesn't take much research to discover that there are a fair number of college athletes at many universities in this country with minimal reading skills. Certainly, something is going on at those colleges as well. While Google is top loaded with stories about UNC, dig a little in those articles and others and you'll find stories about plenty of other schools, even places like Creighton.


He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.


And I would say you're pretty naive, if you think that there aren't any athletes at those 20 schools who have no business being there, and yet are passing their classes and graduating.


So now you are calling schools who let in athletes "who have no business being there" cheaters on the same level as UNC?

Priceless.


Clearly you didn't read the previous post. Explain to me how someone who could barely read and or write and yet can still pass classes at a university, and even graduate. Happens at more universities than just UNC.

Some other schools besides UNC bend the academic eligibility rules for student athletes - you don't say.

This is different from saying that all other D1 schools do the same thing (or even a similar thing) to what UNC did. No, I don't think so. If you want to make a statement like that, you have to back it up. Don't site some articles on the internet that talk about shady academic tudoring, etc. at Creighton. UNC professors/employees created sham classes and then encouraged athletes to take those sham classes. This is UNC - supposedly one of the top academic schools in the country. Show me proof of this happening at Stanford, UVA, Michigan, et al.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jepvb wrote:
spot wrote:
jepvb wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


You must be so proud.


Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........


But it doesn't hence the rub


It doesn't take much research to discover that there are a fair number of college athletes at many universities in this country with minimal reading skills. Certainly, something is going on at those colleges as well. While Google is top loaded with stories about UNC, dig a little in those articles and others and you'll find stories about plenty of other schools, even places like Creighton.


He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.


And I would say you're pretty naive, if you think that there aren't any athletes at those 20 schools who have no business being there, and yet are passing their classes and graduating.


So now you are calling schools who let in athletes "who have no business being there" cheaters on the same level as UNC?

Priceless.


Clearly you didn't read the previous post. Explain to me how someone who could barely read and or write and yet can still pass classes at a university, and even graduate. Happens at more universities than just UNC.

Some other schools besides UNC bend the academic eligibility rules for student athletes - you don't say.

This is different from saying that all other D1 schools do the same thing (or even a similar thing) to what UNC did. No, I don't think so. If you want to make a statement like that, you have to back it up. Don't site some articles on the internet that talk about shady academic tudoring, etc. at Creighton. UNC professors/employees created sham classes and then encouraged athletes to take those sham classes. This is UNC - supposedly one of the top academic schools in the country. Show me proof of this happening at Stanford, UVA, Michigan, et al.

Don't forget the ivies and the academies are D1 too
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
For the record, I said all major D1 schools, not all D1 schools.

Aren't all D1 schools "major", you may ask? No. UNC-Wilmington has qualified for the NCAA basketball tournament the past 2 years. I would not call UNCW a major D1 school (do they even have a football team?). Same thing with "Dunk City" Florida Gulf Coast. Also, teams like Davidson & Campbell University. IMHO, not major D1 schools.

Sorry for being so North Carolina enteric in my examples. I've never lived anywhere else.

GDTBATH!!!!

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Last edited by: japarker24: Oct 13, 17 12:10
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
japarker24 wrote:
For the record, I said all major D1 schools, not all D1 schools.

I gave as examples Stanford, UVA, Michigan - I could name others. "Major" enough for you? Which classes at those schools do you not have to do any work for in order to get an A, which classes school officials actively encourage student athletes to take in order to remain academically eligible?

japarker24 wrote:
I've never lived anywhere else.

That's not a surprise.

japarker24 wrote:
GDTBATH!!!!

Why? UNC fans should be embarrassed, but yet they are celebrating vindication. Idiots.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jepvb wrote:
spot wrote:
jepvb wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
spot wrote:
windywave wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:


You must be so proud.



Proud? No. Just not naĂŻve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........


But it doesn't hence the rub


It doesn't take much research to discover that there are a fair number of college athletes at many universities in this country with minimal reading skills. Certainly, something is going on at those colleges as well. While Google is top loaded with stories about UNC, dig a little in those articles and others and you'll find stories about plenty of other schools, even places like Creighton.


He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.


And I would say you're pretty naive, if you think that there aren't any athletes at those 20 schools who have no business being there, and yet are passing their classes and graduating.


So now you are calling schools who let in athletes "who have no business being there" cheaters on the same level as UNC?

Priceless.


Clearly you didn't read the previous post. Explain to me how someone who could barely read and or write and yet can still pass classes at a university, and even graduate. Happens at more universities than just UNC.


Some other schools besides UNC bend the academic eligibility rules for student athletes - you don't say.

This is different from saying that all other D1 schools do the same thing (or even a similar thing) to what UNC did. No, I don't think so. If you want to make a statement like that, you have to back it up. Don't site some articles on the internet that talk about shady academic tudoring, etc. at Creighton. UNC professors/employees created sham classes and then encouraged athletes to take those sham classes. This is UNC - supposedly one of the top academic schools in the country. Show me proof of this happening at Stanford, UVA, Michigan, et al.


Being snarky with every post isn't really helping your argument. Just saying.

And, I'm pretty sure I said that Div 1 schools that are competitive for a national championship in football or basketball all have skeletons in their closet, not that they all do what Carolina did. If you don't think that many, if not most, big time Div 1 football or basketball programs are involved in some fairly rampant cheating when it comes to NCAA rules, then I think you're pretty naive.

Oh, and here are some remarks from the University of Michigan President Mark Schlissel:


Schlissel cited the recent North Carolina academic scandal of "no-show classes" as evidence of the problem in college athletics. He then pointed to U-M's football program, which has kept its Graduation Success Rate around 70%. The most recent data goes through the 2007 freshman class.

While that puts Michigan in the middle of the Big Ten pack, Schlissel compared it to the overall U-M student body, which he cited at nearly 90%.
"We admit students who aren't as qualified, and it's probably the kids that we admit that can't honestly, even with lots of help, do the amount of work and the quality of work it takes to make progression from year to year," he said, according to the Daily. "These past two years have gotten better, but before that, the graduation rates were terrible, with football somewhere in the 50s and 60s when our total six-year rate at the university is somewhere near 90%. So that's a challenge."
Then there was the U of M basketball scandal: https://en.wikipedia.org/...n_basketball_scandal
There are also a number of stories swirling around Jim Harbaugh and NCAA violations.
There is also this, that talks about "clustering" at 18 universities: http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/ncaa-academic-reform-graduation-rates-clustering/1fe35zt78ufnz1pb9y5ipfdytp

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jepvb wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
For the record, I said all major D1 schools, not all D1 schools.


I gave as examples Stanford, UVA, Michigan - I could name others. "Major" enough for you? Which classes at those schools do you not have to do any work for in order to get an A, which classes school officials actively encourage student athletes to take in order to remain academically eligible?



I never said all major D1 have "no show" or "paper" classes. I said they have (something like) that. I love how you have to put words into my mouth to make your case.




japarker24 wrote:
I've never lived anywhere else.


That's not a surprise.

You say this like it's supposed to be a knock against me or something. Well, I'm proud (see what I did there) to be a life long North Carolinian. I've been to 27 states and 6 foreign countries and I wouldn't change a thing.




japarker24 wrote:
GDTBATH!!!!


Why? UNC fans should be embarrassed, but yet they are celebrating vindication. Idiots.


We are celebrating because the NCAA has been holding this over our heads for basically 7 years now. And, for them to finally say that they don't have jurisdiction is, for us, a reason to celebrate since "we" have been saying that all along.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Last edited by: japarker24: Oct 13, 17 14:15
Quote Reply
Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
japarker24 wrote:
jepvb wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
For the record, I said all major D1 schools, not all D1 schools.


I gave as examples Stanford, UVA, Michigan - I could name others. "Major" enough for you? Which classes at those schools do you not have to do any work for in order to get an A, which classes school officials actively encourage student athletes to take in order to remain academically eligible?



I never said all major D1 have "no show" or "paper" classes. I said they have (something like) that. I love how you have to put words into my mouth to make your case.




japarker24 wrote:
I've never lived anywhere else.


That's not a surprise.

You say this like it's supposed to be a knock against me or something. Well, I'm proud (see what I did there) to be a life long North Carolinian. I've been to 27 states and 6 foreign countries and I wouldn't change a thing.




japarker24 wrote:
GDTBATH!!!!


Why? UNC fans should be embarrassed, but yet they are celebrating vindication. Idiots.


We are celebrating because the NCAA has been holding this over our heads for basically 7 years now. And, for them to finally say that they don't have jurisdiction is, for us, a reason to celebrate since "we" have been saying that all along.

Congratulations on getting away with cheating and counting amongst your alumni such well educated people.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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Like, you I refuse to believe that all the major programs lack integrity ala UNC. The argument from UNC fans "if we did it, everyone other top program must be doing it" is ridiculous and sad.

We lost out top recruit to Arizona in this scandal. I hope Jahvon Quinerly never plays a day of NCAA ball. It gives me hope that Villanova and Jay Wright are playing above the line and not stooping to this "level. And if they are, I will walk away in disgust.

Although it was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I was a student at VU when we won the title in 1985. I was, and half of our bb team were, communications majors. I saw those guys in class. I heard them give their comms theory defense. Harold Jensen and I had 3rd year Spanish together. No fake classes. VU has a 100% graduation rate and the classes are real.

As for UNC, I will NEVER get tired of watching this... NEVER.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7FFJUz0tdo
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [sto] [ In reply to ]
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sto wrote:
Like, you I refuse to believe that all the major programs lack integrity ala UNC. The argument from UNC fans "if we did it, everyone other top program must be doing it" is ridiculous and sad.

We lost out top recruit to Arizona in this scandal. I hope Jahvon Quinerly never plays a day of NCAA ball. It gives me hope that Villanova and Jay Wright are playing above the line and not stooping to this "level. And if they are, I will walk away in disgust.

Although it was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I was a student at VU when we won the title in 1985. I was, and half of our bb team were, communications majors. I saw those guys in class. I heard them give their comms theory defense. Harold Jensen and I had 3rd year Spanish together. No fake classes. VU has a 100% graduation rate and the classes are real.

As for UNC, I will NEVER get tired of watching this... NEVER.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7FFJUz0tdo

Well, except for the fact that Wright and Villanova were guilty of so many small infractions in 2003-2004 that in the eyes of the NCAA they rose to the level of a major infraction. Look, perhaps Villanova is cleaner than the rest; I hope you’re right. But, it would appear that ‘nova is not as clean as the driven snow, much as you try to make it sound.

And, as somebody who also went to school in the 1980s, I don’t think that your personal experience with what happened 30 years ago necessarily extrapolates to what is going on today. I too had classes with guys on the UNC B-ball team back then, but clearly things went very awry since. The emphasis by the NCAA on graduation rates has placed a lot of pressure on schools to make that happen.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]
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spot wrote:
sto wrote:
Like, you I refuse to believe that all the major programs lack integrity ala UNC. The argument from UNC fans "if we did it, everyone other top program must be doing it" is ridiculous and sad.

We lost out top recruit to Arizona in this scandal. I hope Jahvon Quinerly never plays a day of NCAA ball. It gives me hope that Villanova and Jay Wright are playing above the line and not stooping to this "level. And if they are, I will walk away in disgust.

Although it was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I was a student at VU when we won the title in 1985. I was, and half of our bb team were, communications majors. I saw those guys in class. I heard them give their comms theory defense. Harold Jensen and I had 3rd year Spanish together. No fake classes. VU has a 100% graduation rate and the classes are real.

As for UNC, I will NEVER get tired of watching this... NEVER.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7FFJUz0tdo


Well, except for the fact that Wright and Villanova were guilty of so many small infractions in 2003-2004 that in the eyes of the NCAA they rose to the level of a major infraction. Look, perhaps Villanova is cleaner than the rest; I hope you’re right. But, it would appear that ‘nova is not as clean as the driven snow, much as you try to make it sound.

And, as somebody who also went to school in the 1980s, I don’t think that your personal experience with what happened 30 years ago necessarily extrapolates to what is going on today. I too had classes with guys on the UNC B-ball team back then, but clearly things went very awry since. The emphasis by the NCAA on graduation rates has placed a lot of pressure on schools to make that happen.

So the solution is to admit "students" that need fraudulent classes to stay in school? How about not admitting "students" that can't take a normal class load no matter how good they are at sports?
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
spot wrote:
sto wrote:
Like, you I refuse to believe that all the major programs lack integrity ala UNC. The argument from UNC fans "if we did it, everyone other top program must be doing it" is ridiculous and sad.

We lost out top recruit to Arizona in this scandal. I hope Jahvon Quinerly never plays a day of NCAA ball. It gives me hope that Villanova and Jay Wright are playing above the line and not stooping to this "level. And if they are, I will walk away in disgust.

Although it was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I was a student at VU when we won the title in 1985. I was, and half of our bb team were, communications majors. I saw those guys in class. I heard them give their comms theory defense. Harold Jensen and I had 3rd year Spanish together. No fake classes. VU has a 100% graduation rate and the classes are real.

As for UNC, I will NEVER get tired of watching this... NEVER.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7FFJUz0tdo


Well, except for the fact that Wright and Villanova were guilty of so many small infractions in 2003-2004 that in the eyes of the NCAA they rose to the level of a major infraction. Look, perhaps Villanova is cleaner than the rest; I hope you’re right. But, it would appear that ‘nova is not as clean as the driven snow, much as you try to make it sound.

And, as somebody who also went to school in the 1980s, I don’t think that your personal experience with what happened 30 years ago necessarily extrapolates to what is going on today. I too had classes with guys on the UNC B-ball team back then, but clearly things went very awry since. The emphasis by the NCAA on graduation rates has placed a lot of pressure on schools to make that happen.

So the solution is to admit "students" that need fraudulent classes to stay in school? How about not admitting "students" that can't take a normal class load no matter how good they are at sports?

Therein lies the rub. The schools have all sorts of competing requirements, with the most pressure put on them to win at high level sports, which tends to trump all.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]
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spot wrote:
Therein lies the rub. The schools have all sorts of competing requirements, with the most pressure put on them to win at high level sports, which tends to trump all.

This is not a complicated problem. We just need to stop pretending that college basketball and football are student athletic programs. For many schools (probably not all, but an awful lot of them) basketball and football are semi-pro leagues designed to add revenue streams for the school. So, break them apart from the NCAA, form semi-pro leagues with teams that are attached to the schools, pay the semi-pro athletes and don't require them to pretend to be students.

If there are legitimate students who still want to engage in friendly competitive extracurricular basketball or football, then form NCAA teams to do that, but separate them from the money making league. Go back to having college athletics be what they are supposed to be (and what they still are for most other sports), a way for students to have some fun outside of class, and the NCAA will have an easier time dealing with them. Keep the big money making football and basketball teams, but separate them from the students and NCAA. If a football or basketball player wants to play in the big semi-pro leagues, but also wants to get a degree, they do it just like any number of NBA or NFL players who work on their degrees as pros. They pay the university tuition, and take classes in their time off from their primary job of practicing and playing.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
spot wrote:
Therein lies the rub. The schools have all sorts of competing requirements, with the most pressure put on them to win at high level sports, which tends to trump all.


This is not a complicated problem. We just need to stop pretending that college basketball and football are student athletic programs. For many schools (probably not all, but an awful lot of them) basketball and football are semi-pro leagues designed to add revenue streams for the school. So, break them apart from the NCAA, form semi-pro leagues with teams that are attached to the schools, pay the semi-pro athletes and don't require them to pretend to be students.

If there are legitimate students who still want to engage in friendly competitive extracurricular basketball or football, then form NCAA teams to do that, but separate them from the money making league. Go back to having college athletics be what they are supposed to be (and what they still are for most other sports), a way for students to have some fun outside of class, and the NCAA will have an easier time dealing with them. Keep the big money making football and basketball teams, but separate them from the students and NCAA. If a football or basketball player wants to play in the big semi-pro leagues, but also wants to get a degree, they do it just like any number of NBA or NFL players who work on their degrees as pros. They pay the university tuition, and take classes in their time off from their primary job of practicing and playing.

Or make all sure all the profits are poured back into the schools academically, at the least having all scholarships fully funded for all sports. But in general, I agree with you. This isn't complicated.

As an aside, I always laugh when I hear the players complain about the schools making money off them too...at the school in our town (Middle Tennessee, this is mid-major FBS) - the players get a full ride, they get cash to make up for this myth of full cost of attendance, if they qualify for pell grants they get even more cash. They have academic center with tutors 24/7. They are being paid.
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
spot wrote:
Therein lies the rub. The schools have all sorts of competing requirements, with the most pressure put on them to win at high level sports, which tends to trump all.


This is not a complicated problem. We just need to stop pretending that college basketball and football are student athletic programs. For many schools (probably not all, but an awful lot of them) basketball and football are semi-pro leagues designed to add revenue streams for the school. So, break them apart from the NCAA, form semi-pro leagues with teams that are attached to the schools, pay the semi-pro athletes and don't require them to pretend to be students.

If there are legitimate students who still want to engage in friendly competitive extracurricular basketball or football, then form NCAA teams to do that, but separate them from the money making league. Go back to having college athletics be what they are supposed to be (and what they still are for most other sports), a way for students to have some fun outside of class, and the NCAA will have an easier time dealing with them. Keep the big money making football and basketball teams, but separate them from the students and NCAA. If a football or basketball player wants to play in the big semi-pro leagues, but also wants to get a degree, they do it just like any number of NBA or NFL players who work on their degrees as pros. They pay the university tuition, and take classes in their time off from their primary job of practicing and playing.


This is the 146-word essay that earned a UNC jock an A-minus:

"On the evening of December Rosa Parks decided that she was going to sit in the white people section on the bus in Montgomery, Alabama. During this time blacks had to give up there seats to whites when more whites got on the bus. Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat. Her and the bus driver began to talk and the conversation went like this. “Let me have those front seats” said the driver. She didn’t get up and told the driver that she was tired of giving her seat to white people. “I’m going to have you arrested,” said the driver. “You may do that,” Rosa Parks responded. Two white policemen came in and Rosa Parks asked them “why do you all push us around?” The police officer replied and said “I don’t know, but the law is the law and you’re under arrest."

So, what's the value of an education if you allow for academic fraud?


The UNC fake class scandal: Athlete got an A- for a one-paragraph paper.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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From a Duke-y perspective:

A Pitiful Victory (Lies, damned lies and UNC)

"The sad thing is we bought it.

For a long time, we bought it - the whole business. The idea that UNC was a public Ivy. The idea that there was such a thing as the Carolina Way. The idea that the crucible of the ‘60s scandal was so severe that UNC, scorched as it was, would stay away from the dark side of the game forevermore.

Worse, when Duke lost to these cheaters, we consoled ourselves, and our readers, that at least UNC did things the right way. It wasn’t like losing to, say, Kentucky or worse, Vegas. UNC still had some honor.

It took awhile but we began to catch on. We heard rumors in the ‘90s, some very specific. We heard one that Dean Smith called a professor and left a message asking for a lenient grade for one of his players.

When the professor called back, the rumor said, Smith told him never mind. I got it from someone else.

We knew about the 400 SAT of course, everyone knew that. We didn’t know until later what FSU coach Pat Kennedy said about how it wasn't fair to play UNC when the Tar Heels started five academic exceptions."

Read the whole thing:

A Pitiful Victory - Duke Basketball Report

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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