That's a pretty charitable take on it.

Story says it's against the law, so . . .

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I'm working on being nicer. :)

The law prohibits elected officials from appointing relatives to Cabinet positions, but may not apply to a job as White House adviser. However that is not completely certain.

Seems like an incredibly easy law to skirt in this case. Even if you can't give them the title you could still have them do all of the functions. Only issue would be on access to info. And well, we don't really seem to worry about that very much any more.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

A public official may not appoint, employ, promote, advance, or advocate for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement, in or to a civilian position in the agency in which he is serving or over which he exercises jurisdiction or control any individual who is a relative of the public official. An individual may not be appointed, employed, promoted, or advanced in or to a civilian position in an agency if such appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement has been advocated by a public official, serving in or exercising jurisdiction or control over the agency, who is a relative of the individual.

That's the law. Seems fairly black and white, not sure why it wouldn't apply to the position of senior adviser.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I have been on the record in the LR saying I am quite happy with all his picks for VP and cabinet.

I think Kushner is a smart tough guy who has served this capacity for Trump until now.

I think it is a mistake and a problem that he continues it formally into the official administration. In part because I think Trump now needs to rely on someone like Prebius to fill this role.

The solution to this one is right up Trump's alley: divorce.

---

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

Prebius is a politician through and through. He has his own agenda. I think one of the hardest parts of being president would be finding people that you can trust to not be pushing their own hidden agenda.

Cheney looking for VP and finding himself is a good example. He didn't want to be VP to help Bush, he had things he wanted done.

But there is a strong possibility that family is illegal in this role. So now Trump will be stuck talking to Melania.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

So is Pence. Which is exactly why Trump should be relying on them or he shouldn't have picked them. If he cant work with the people in his admin(some of whom are voted to the position, some of whom are vetted to the position) and come to a good consensus then this will be a terrible administration.

To put these two in these positions and then bring in Kushner for the "real advice" is wrong on many levels.

I disagree with you on Cheney "finding himself" but that is a discussion for 10 years ago.

I'm not sure this case raises any of the concerns that anti-nepotism laws are intended to protect against. Were the functions of Michelle Obama, like Let's Move, in violation of anti-nepotism laws? Perhaps you can educate me on that. Also, would it matter if he draws a salary? He doesn't need the money.

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________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Were the functions of Michelle Obama, like Let's Move, in violation of anti-nepotism laws?

Uh, no, I don't think so. Are you really comparing the public service cause of a First Lady to the role of senior adviser? I mean, really? She was First Lady- they're expected to have a cause that they work for. It's not at all the same thing- and not even primarily because it's not a job she got paid for.

Also, would it matter if he draws a salary? He doesn't need the money.

Well, is he planning to forego the salary?

My reading of the law- which seems entirely straightforward- is that it doesn't matter if he draws a salary or not. It says he can't be appointed to the job. That said, the next section of the law does go on to say that someone who's hired in violation of the law is not entitled to get paid, either.

He also shouldn't be given the title, access to information or spaces, or the authority that goes along with the job.

If Trump wants his actual advice so bad, he doesn't need to hire him for that, whether paid or unpaid.

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

But my question was not about what the law says, I'm asking if the policy concerns -- that are the purpose of the anti-nepotism laws -- are implicated in this case. Or, if the law didn't exist, would this specific situation bother you and why?

---

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

I don't understand your question, maybe. You're asking me what the problem with nepotism in the government is?

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Look, do you believe nepotism is always bad? Are you opposed to family held and run businesses?

I'm asking, that if you were Judge -- not under code, but a judge under equity -- and you were evaluating this case and could allow or disallow this particular instance as being harmful or non-harmful based on the specific facts of this case, how would you evaluate it. So aside from the snit-nepotism law do you think the public is being harmed by this appointment?

Related question: was it bad for the country that JFK picked his brother as AG?

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________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Look, do you believe nepotism is always bad?

In American government? Yes.

Are you opposed to family held and run businesses?

Not in the least. But the American government is not similar to a family held business. Do you think it is, and if so, please defend that position.

So aside from the snit-nepotism law do you think the public is being harmed by this appointment?

It looks like a textbook case of nepotism, and the exact situation for which we have nepotism laws in the first place. Given that, I'm not sure why I'd be considering this case separately from the law. But let's say there isn't a law. (There is, though, and even if you don't think it's necessary, flouting it this way is itself harmful.) Would I still have a problem with Trump hiring his family members to government positions? Yeah. I'm surprised you wouldn't.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I've noticed.

Nepotism should be the least of your worries - he (Kushner) is an idiot. And i say that as someone that was "less disgusted" with Trump than i would have been with Hillary.

It requires staying out of political threads and lots and lots of backspacing.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

https://www.google.com/...k3FUsmopNkiZt6Qdss1g


care to post your qualifications for this discussion.

I've told you that I don't see any policy concerns with this case. I've asked you to explain your specific concerns with this case, and all you have done is say "it is nepotism." Why is this appointment as special advisor bad?

Policy reasons for nepotism laws include:

(1) avoiding appearance of favoritism that hurts moral -- not factor here as all these guys are grown-ups and know Trump listens to Kushner whether he as title and office or not. I don't think Cabinet members will be saying, "I'm unhappy. This is unfair, he only listens to Jared because he's married to Ivanka."

(2) difficult working environment -- I'm not concerned that this will affect White House functioning. Anyway, in this case, I'd prefer leaving that up to Trump's judgment.

(3) low job satisfaction in cases of nepotism -- again I'll leave this to Trump's judgment.

(4) Other -- please feel free to add other policy reasons that are important to you.

You forgot to tell me if, in your opinion, it was bad that JFK had Robert as AG.

---

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

So . . . you don't oppose nepotism in our government?

As for the appearance of favoritism that hurts morale- I think that's still a legitimate concern, but I'm more concerned with the fact that it undermines the public's confidence in the government. For good reason; another problem with nepotism is the obvious fact that it results in people being chosen not because they're the best qualified, but because, you know, they're related to someone. There's also the perception, and the reality, that people are being given lucrative and influential roles solely because of their familial relationships- that public goods are being used for personal gain.

Every day brings a new surprise, and the fact that I have to post an argument against nepotism in our government is yet another one.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Glad you asked. My wife went to high school with him at Frisch. He was widely known as a spoiled brat and, as i stated, an idiot. The entire school was shocked when he got into Harvard until the news came out regarding how exactly that came to be.

"It might arouse the ire of many that someone like Jared C. Kushner ’03, despite what could politely be described as modest academic credentials according to the book, gained admission in the wake of a $2.5 million donation from his billionaire father."

Let's assume it's illegal.

What's the penalty?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

so that's a "no" you don't want to put your credentials up against his.

So he gained admission to Harvard because of a donation; and was the first and last to do so......... Are you suggesting he also got grades good enough to graduate (cum laude) and go on to earn an MBA and a JD because his father paid for those too.

Is the standard for someone's qualifications (about being an idiot or not) now simply how they behaved/performed during their high school years? As reported by another during that same period? Do you think I can't find someone from "Frisch" who thinks your wife was a spoiled brat and an idiot during the same period.

And her current qualifications are??? Still a spoiled brat and idiot or has she had opportunity to grow and mature?

But this is a special position -- special advisor. And you don't have a problem with Trump getting advice from him. I think the American public is smart enough to know that Trump has him as an advisor since he want the advice -- not to give his very wealthy son-in-law a job. Also is anyone arguing that Trump chose him because he wants to give his daughter's husband a job?

Last time, or you strike out on this one: do you think it was bad for the country that Robert Kennedy was AG?

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________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

I don't see any penalty specified in the code, other than not getting paid.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/3110

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

The argument for why it might not apply seems to boil down to the issue of whether the office of the presidency is an "agency" for the purposes of the statute. http://www.npr.org/...him-from-the-white-h

That'll show him!

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I think the American public is smart enough to know that Trump has him as an advisor since he want the advice -- not to give his very wealthy son-in-law a job.

Then why give him the job? Is he incapable of offering advice without an official title, with the salary, perks, and influence that go along with it?

Again, you don't mind nepotism in our government?


Last time, or you strike out on this one: do you think it was bad for the country that Robert Kennedy was AG?

Yeah, I do. Like I said, I'm against nepotism in the government. Why aren't you?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

No, she didn't front an agency or have a real position. Was Nancy in the wrong to run with MADD? (The answer is yes, the war on drugs is bad)

However, the real answer is from 1993.
When Bill put Hillary in charge of medical reforms - a real position, unlike the stuff Michelle Obama or Nancy Reagan did, or Barbara Bush complaining about the Simpsons - they sued, claiming the White House isn't a federal agency thus nepotism laws don't apply.

He can talk to him unofficially just as well. Trump and many of his cohorts seemed ethically challenged. Trump doesn't sever ties to business , nominates folks who don't provide financial disclosures before hearings, and apparently kushners quals are he married a trump and got family backed investments to do real estate/paper deals. Doubt the guy truly adds expertise not easily found elsewhere. maybe he is there to help on tax evasion matters.

A family run and held business is paying family members with their own money generated from the business, not taxpayer money taken from you and me.

Question for you. Do you think that it should be okay for government managers all over the country to hire relatives for positions under them and paying them with taxpayer dollars? Is that really any different from Trump and Kushner?

---

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava

You asked me to post my qualifications. I assumed you meant qualifications as to why i stated that Kushner was an idiot.

My wife grew up in a small house with her mother, grandfather and grandmother because they had little/no money. She is 33 yrs old and is still paying off her college debt, so no, she's not a spoiled brat.

Oh, and go fuck yourself.

so just an idiot then, not a spoiled brat and an idiot............


BTW how did she go to Frisch, which currently costs $25k a year with little to no money? Did someone cut her a break or make a donation on her behalf?

see how easy this is to throw out there. Not quite the same when it hits closer to home.

You're definitely a moron and perhaps, methinks, a bit of a troll? She's an idiot because she's still paying off college debt? She went to GW, not exactly a cheap school, and I misspoke, i think she paid it off last year or the year before.

Education and religion were important to her family so they spent basically all they had on her schooling and little on anything else.

You can keep making stuff up or making assumptions if you like, I have better things to do than respond with actual facts. i am done here.

And please let me know the next time you sign up for an ironman, i would like to meet you in person.

The whole appoint process is ripe with nepotism, it just involves friends, but not family members. He already gets to surround himself with his choices. Do you think Hillary did not advise Bill? I was under the impression she had a lot to say.

I have a problem with Trump getting advice from him. To date, Trump hasn't divested himself of his interests in his businesses, and last I'd heard, Eric, Don, and Ivanka were going to run them for him. If he's getting advice from his son-in-law, how can we trust the advice is for the good of the country and not the good of his family's business interests?

To some degree, I suppose that's a concern with anyone he appoints, but it raises particular concerns when he's receiving advice from someone with a direct familial relationship. Will Kushner advise Trump to act in the country's best interests even when it might harm his wife's (and let's face it, Trump's) business interests? It's the appearance of impropriety and the fact that we can't ever know for sure if Kushner is giving sound advice that benefits the country or benefits his own (and Trump's daughter's) interests. Kushner may be no more likely to act in his own interests than anyone else, but his relationship to Trump calls into question any advice he may give in an official capacity.

One other thing. I believe there is a privilege that exists between the President and his official advisors, which may be the reason Trump wants Kushner in an "official" position. If he just wants to run stuff past his son-in-law occasionally, he wouldn't need the official position unless he wanted to discuss classified information. With Kushner in an official advisory role, not only can they discuss classified information, their conversations enjoy some legal protection. So, even if they are discussing wholly inappropriate stuff, we'd never get to know unless there was a damn good reason to pierce the privilege. Whenever Trump acts on Kushner's advice, we'll always wonder whether the actions Trump takes are being unduly influenced or taken for personal, familial reasons rather than for our own good. In fact, they may very well be, but we won't get to know that. Kushner's relationship with Trump creates suspicion, which makes it look more like Trump is stocking the swamp with his own morally questionable denizens rather than draining it as he promised. Even if Kushner is on the up and up, it won't look that way publicly.

THAT is what bothers me about it.

---

''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

Do you think Hillary did not advise Bill? I was under the impression she had a lot to say.

Again, there's a real difference between offering advice, and holding an official, paid position in the administration. And I was opposed to Hillary's expanded role in her husband's administration, as were most Republicans and conservatives at the time.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Did she hold an official post with a title and a pay check? To my knowledge the answer to that question is no she didn't. Please feel free to correct me if you know otherwise.

---

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava

Work for Trump but not get paid. Sounds like a trend.

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

I don't know if she was paid, but Hillary was the official head of Bill's health care reform task force.

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___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Watching priebis on van sustern's new show.....he has got to be over paid. He should work for free too.

She wasn't appointed to any kind of position by her husband. It's expected that First Ladies will advise their husbands, as basically all wives do. Doing so isn't a case of nepotism.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

She was appointed head of his task force for implementing universal healthcare. It went a little beyond a wife giving her husband advice, or a First Lady promoting a pet cause.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

She led the task force, but I don't think that means she was officially appointed to any post or job.

I agree this went past normal wife advice. My point is that it doesn't really count as nepotism. The Clintons expanded the role of the First Lady, but Pres Clinton didn't appoint his family to some job in the govt.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I would much prefer to be having a intelligent debate about whether it is appropriate for Trump to have Kushner as an advisor in his capacity as President. There is a good one going on here based on whether it is appropriate given their family relationship. You are the guy who waded in with the ludicrous position that it isn't appropriate because Kushner is not qualified to do so because he is an idiot.

You followed up with spoiled brat and have now added moron and troll to your intelligent positions.

If you don't want to be trolled then be man enough to walk yourself back from the foolish position you took.

Kushner is an intelligent, tough, experienced businessman. He is more than capable of advising a President on any number of subjects. I don't believe he should because of his familial relationship to Trump. For a lot of reasons. But not because he is not intellectual capable. That is just......moronic......

 

I would much prefer to be having a intelligent debate about whether it is appropriate for Trump to have Kushner as an advisor in his capacity as President. There is a good one going on here based on whether it is appropriate given their family relationship. You are the guy who waded in with the ludicrous position that it isn't appropriate because Kushner is not qualified to do so because he is an idiot.

You followed up with spoiled brat and have now added moron and troll to your intelligent positions.

If you don't want to be trolled then be man enough to walk yourself back from the foolish position you took.

Kushner is an intelligent, tough, experienced businessman. He is more than capable of advising a President on any number of subjects. I don't believe he should because of his familial relationship to Trump. For a lot of reasons. But not because he is not intellectual capable. That is just......moronic......[/quote]
I shouldn't let myself get trolled but alas, let's start over. please don't comment on my punctuation mistakes, which are intentional. i won't correct your grammar mistakes which i assume are unintentional.

you started by asking for my qualifications. did you want to know if i have an MBA or CPA or JD in order to justify my calling him an idiot? what are your qualifications? i ask because, apparently, it's relevant.

you claim that kushner is "tough" and "intelligent". you have never met him, nor have i. you posted a wiki article as support. i countered that my wife, who is much smarter than I am - and you by the laws of "if a than b" - claims he was widely thought of as, yes, an idiot. she attended the same school so she probably has more basis in that statement, assuming she is telling the truth. i trust her judgment over wikipedia, and remember, you twat, that i am a conservative that has never voted for a democrat. she and i had many household arguments during the run up to the election. I am like a sox fan admitting that Ortiz really isn't that good and you are the drunk guy screaming "Nomaaaa" in the corner.

then you called my wife, whom you haven't met, a spoiled idiot brat. knowing her personally, that characterization couldn't be farther from the truth. you'll have to trust me on that one.

You asked me to "be a man". If your comments are reminiscent of "being a man", i will respond in kind: if you don't yet have kids, i hope you never do. people like you shouldn't reproduce. i actually assume you are single or divorced as no one that posts like you would be fit to be a husband. if i am wrong and you are married, i hope you have decided not to have children. in the worst case - you are married and have children - i can only hope that they a) fell far from the tree or b) are being raised by their estranged mother, who, despite marrying someone with a mental disability, wisened up and left you a long time ago.

this was fun.

But this is a special position -- special advisor. And you don't have a problem with Trump getting advice from him. I think the American public is smart enough to know that Trump has him as an advisor since he want the advice -- not to give his very wealthy son-in-law a job.


You seem to keep missing the obvious point, it is illegal. Then you seem to keep missing the next obvious point, nepotism in government is not a good thing.


I find it hard to understand why you are defending it.

See vitus979 sign out line for rational. They will need revolving door at White House as often as these folks change positions. McConnell on vetting first thru the new door.

Wait, isn't this guy the Jew? I thought Trump was an anti-semite.,.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I shouldn't let myself get trolled but alas, let's start over. please don't comment on my punctuation mistakes, which are intentional. i won't correct your grammar mistakes which i assume are unintentional.

you started by asking for my qualifications. did you want to know if i have an MBA or CPA or JD in order to justify my calling him an idiot? what are your qualifications? i ask because, apparently, it's relevant.

you claim that kushner is "tough" and "intelligent". you have never met him, nor have i. you posted a wiki article as support. i countered that my wife, who is much smarter than I am - and you by the laws of "if a than b" - claims he was widely thought of as, yes, an idiot. she attended the same school so she probably has more basis in that statement, assuming she is telling the truth. i trust her judgment over wikipedia, and remember, you twat, that i am a conservative that has never voted for a democrat. she and i had many household arguments during the run up to the election. I am like a sox fan admitting that Ortiz really isn't that good and you are the drunk guy screaming "Nomaaaa" in the corner.

then you called my wife, whom you haven't met, a spoiled idiot brat. knowing her personally, that characterization couldn't be farther from the truth. you'll have to trust me on that one.

You asked me to "be a man". If your comments are reminiscent of "being a man", i will respond in kind: if you don't yet have kids, i hope you never do. people like you shouldn't reproduce. i actually assume you are single or divorced as no one that posts like you would be fit to be a husband. if i am wrong and you are married, i hope you have decided not to have children. in the worst case - you are married and have children - i can only hope that they a) fell far from the tree or b) are being raised by their estranged mother, who, despite marrying someone with a mental disability, wisened up and left you a long time ago.

this was fun.[/quote]
Atta boy. When confronted double down with more stupidity.

I do have kids. They are the product of public school. I didn't blow all my family money sending them to "religious school" because it was important to me. Only to have them pass judgement on their classmates as "idiots" and "spoiled brats". Clearly that was a waste of money....

Yeah I'm just one guy who thinks Kushner is not an idiot. The rest of the world is with you and your compassionate wife



You are going to need to up your troll game here in the LR.

You say you think he is smart and tough - what makes you think so. As far as I have read, he inherited a robust business from his crook father and he hasn't run it into the ground.

His dad bought his way into harvard. He is a 35 year old kid with little life experience. Not saying he isn't a decent fellow, but I don't see him as being particularly noteworthy, other than being rich.

What is your point here? The choice of senior advisor is not between Kushner and Treimink, or Treimink's wife, so your questions about their qualifications are not relevant, and you are just being a dick about his wife.

I posted his wiki lin page regarding his qualifications

Do you think he is unqualified to provide advice to a president

Do you think he is an idiot.

Not only that, but I'll bet that you, and ironmayb for that matter, can remember who were the smart kids, and who were the idiots, that you went to HS with. I certainly can.

I get that I am being a dick about his wife. I didn't bring his wife into the conversation he did.

I started in this thread when it was about whether Kushner should be an advisor because of his relationship to Trump. I don't think he should be.

Tremink then decided to introduce the concept that he shouldn't be an advisor because he isnt qualifiedhe is an idiot. I think that goes way too far. So I posted Kushner's "credentials" and asked if Tremink would like to post up his "credentials" as a comparison. He then introduced his wife into the process as his defense for Kushner being an idiot.

I get it, Kushner is an idiot and a rich kid who's father bought him into school blah blah blah. Just like Trump's old man was rich and bought him into everything. And GW Bush was an idiot despite Ivy League degree and his daddy got him out of everything blah blah blah.

Maybe Kushner is unqualified to give any advice to a sitting President. But once you get past your assumption that his dad (crooked Dad) bought him into college (and I assume bought him his degree and his MBA and his JD) and "gave him" a business that he hasn't screwed up (yet) then please compare this 35 year old "kid" (your words) and his ability to be an advisor to a President to the degrees and qualifications of our current sitting President either at 35 or when he took the job.

I guess I'm just old and cranky and tired of good qualified people in this country being written off as idiot's (on either side of the aisle).

I guess I'm just old and cranky and tired of good qualified people in this country being written off as idiot's

I know, right? When is that poor kid going to finally catch the break he so clearly deserves?

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

:-)

Can you imagine having trump for a FIL? Almost cancels out the hotness that is Ivanka. Almost

Do you think he is unqualified to provide advice to a president


Do you think he is an idiot.


Those are completely irrelevant questions. The problem is the relationship between Kushner and Trump, not his qualifications. If you start appointing people related to you, who decides if the person being appointed is qualified or not? He could be the world's best advisor but he can do that without actually being formally appointed to the position. The laws against nepotism are there for a very good reason.


The "unpaid" part is also not really comforting because he will get paid one way or another. I'd much rather someone take a salary, at least then we know that some of his compensation is legitimate and open to the public.

I agree completely. My questions were in response (originally) to someone who felt that kushner shouldn't be an advisor because he is an idiot (because his wife says so).

I think kushner is qualified to advise a president. I don't think he should advise this president for the same reasons as you

I think kushner is qualified to advise a president.

It's kind of a distraction, but why? What do you base that opinion on, other than the fact Trump appointed him? He's a 35 year old guy with no real accomplishments of his own in the field he actually works in- which isn't anything to do with public policy.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Yep. Here's what else I bet you remember. The smart kids weren't always the ones with the best grades. Sometimes they skated through and then matured at a later date. And sometimes those that called people spoiled brats and idiots were the ones who didn't get invited to the "in crowd" stuff and were jealous.

Seems like most of us agree the nepotism shouldn't get a pass.

To me, this sort of sums up the overall concern with Trump, not that he will make a few missteps, but that he, and his team, seem to have absolutely no regard for even the optics of their decisions.

Communications person who plagiarized her book and her PhD thesis - no problem.

Conflict of interest between business holdings and presidential post - nothing to worry about.

Son in law as advisor - ignore the rules.

Supporting Russian hackers - what's the big deal?

Ormarosa as a member of his team, and who rants on and on about how all of Trump's enemies will have to bow down to him - cool.

For as much as we "hate" our political foes, most of us believe in the rule of law and the civility and nods to the underlying checks and balances that following certain rules and practices brings with it. And we want those upheld, even if they don't always go our way.

Trump, to me, just seems to blow through all of that. If he doesn't like something, no matter if it is law, or good taste, or better optics, he just ignores it - and right now there seem to be no repercussions.

That seems much more like the actions of a tinpot dictator, than of someone who is to lead the largest democracy in the world, and is kind of scary.

I agree with most of what you said and share many of the same concerns. These are real issues which our time should be spent on IMO

Part of what makes this frustrating is this hasn't been defined. Could be senior advisor in charge of advising how to take a dump

It is also one of the many reasons why I think it shouldn't happen. This has the likelihood of taking on a life of its own and really getting in the way of what appt and voted people like prebius and pence should be doing

To try to answer your question more directly I think he has academic credentials (including a Jd) and business experience that qualify him to serve in some sort of advisory role. I imagine if I saw your credentials I would conclude the same thing. That you are qualified and not an idiot. Whether you should and it what capacity I would need to know more. Which is why I think kushner shouldn't for trump. Among other reasons.

Am I an idiot? No. Am I qualified to be a senior adviser to the president of the United States? Probably not.

In any event, it's hard to see what special expertise Kushner offers Trump. He's basically Trump anyway, just a couple generations younger. Rich kid, sent to Ivy League by rich dad, got rich with family wealth, no public service experience or policy expertise, not even any especially impressive business chops.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

What in the world makes you believe his son-in-law is going to give him the unvarnished truth? He's married to the Donald's infatuation. He's not doing anything to piss him off.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

What if its senior advisor on how to take a good healthy dump? Cmon I bet you and I are both qualified.

I'm not saying the guy walks on water. I just think to say he is unqualified is different than the discussion of should he given his relationship to trump

And I think to say he is "unqualified" is a stretch at best (without more definition of the role) and to say he is an idiot doesn't really do justice to the conversation. There's nothing about his background or what you said above that leads to idiot. You don't get a degree from Harvard and a jd and MBA from NYu that way. You don't end up on fortunes 40under40 that way.

I get what your saying but couldn't you say the same about trump and the presidency. I know I can/could/did/am.

I'm going best case scenario. It is morning in America again. But I honestly trust him to do that much more than Rinse.

Trump has no political experience. He keeps picking more people with no experience. I would wager that experienced political people all feel like they can use that inexperience to their advantage to advance their own political advantage. If I were him I would want a few people who have been around me for a while that I think I can trust. I haven't seen much evidence that Trump has any actual friends. Next up on the list of people who aren't trying to fuck you over at every opportunity is family. Melania, well, let's just say I don't think she would be much help. The sons are running the business. The list is running out.

Trump has no political allies. Just people who think they can use him to get ahead. Have I mentioned that we are all really fucked?

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Who said anything about grades? Smart, idiot or somewhere in between, hang around someone enough and you can for the most part figure it out.

Idiot or not his resume doesn't qualify him to be a sr. presidential advisor unless it's his FIL's administration.

I don't think hiring of family members is necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes hiring the family member is good for an organization and the benefits outweigh the negatives. In other words, hiring a family member is not a per se evil.

But in large organizations, I think more times than not, hiring a family member has more negative consequences than positive ones. So as a practical matter, I think nepotism policies are good for corporations.

I think nepotism policies are even more important in the government. But I think the rule should not be absolute but subject to a rule of reason test in certain circumstances. (Note for instance that if a nepotism conflict arises in congressional offices as a result of marriage, both can stay employed in certain cases.)

I think a President should get some discretion to employ advisors whom he trusts. This is not a cabinet position. This is unlikely to cause dissent within the executive. The public is not likely to have problems with IMO. Trump is not doing this to increase family coffers. He is not taking a salary himself. If he believes that he is well served by Jared's counsel, I'm all for making it convenient to get the counsel by having Jared in the White House. I think it would be silly to insist that Trump get in the car, and drive to Jared's house to have face to face meetings.

Taking you guys at your word, it is against the law. So was gay marriage a couple years ago. Laws can be changed.

I have no problem with Hillary doing her health care thing years ago (from a nepotism standpoint).

If Trump gave Melania, Ivanka, Don Jr. all paying jobs, I'd have a problem.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

cheezy pete's, mate, did you even read your own link?

"In 2007, Kushner graduated from New York University where he earned a J.D. and M.B.A.;[20] his father had previously made a $3 million donation to NYU in 2001."

anyway, the store-bought degrees are annoying to me, since i had to earn mine the old-fashioned way, but the bigger concern to me is nepotism.

he certainly looks like an ambitious and energetic guy, but he also looks like he was born on 3rd base. some of his ventures have been quite successful and others duds, and the family business has also been charged in criminal court.

it's also a concern since it speaks to the state of trump's personal and professional network. if this is trump's idea of bringing in all sorts of unimaginably "smart" people that he has in his rolodex, it's not too impressive.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I think you meant "because his spoiled brat wife actually WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL with him".

For sure, a wiki page is more reliable. what does your wiki page say about you?

you are defending your hard on for kushner throughout this page. i can't tell if you really like him or just want to go down swinging.

Good points.

My guess kushner there to get education to help trump perpetuate fame thru heirs, ivanka. Doesn't need salary and this experience will be invaluable. Perhaps calming and sounding board for impetuous trump. For goodness sake maybe he can get the prez to slow down on his early morning dumarse tweets.

Cheesy Pete's I did. Including the part where it says he earned his degrees. 6 years after his father made a donation that may or may not have affected his admission. You believe they are store bought. Meaning all his professors dropped their ethics and passed him even though he didn't deserve it, right?

I agree with you that nepotism is the real issue here

I for one am happy the kennedys weren't held accountable for the actions of their father and his business practices to this degree.

a few stray thoughts:

-i don't think NYU receives 3 million dollar cheques so regularly that they just plum forgot about it when mr.kushner jnr applied. did it sway his profs? i doubt it. did it get his application to the front of the queue, ahead of some pleb who could've scored equal grades? probably.


-w.r.t JFK: that only makes the kennedys bad, it doesn't make kushner good.

-again, i think nepotism is a big problem, but the larger one might be trump's judegement. kushner is a white straight male new yorker, born in privilege, who has made his name primarily by building on his father's real estate business and latterly dabbled in business. in all those things he is a carbon copy of trump. what perspective does he bring to the team? harvard and NYU are impressive, for sure, but the world is full of people with impressive CVs. why kushner specifically?

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Figured I'd jump into the crossfire with my useless 2 cents. I've audited the endowment of an Ivy League school - not Harvard. Yes, I wholeheartedly believe you can get yourself the fanciest titles from the fanciest schools with the fanciest grades if you have a rich parent. I pretty much read it on paper. There were kids with the whole apparatus of the "development office" behind them before they ever set foot on campus. When reviewing the donation records I read correspondence that went almost literally like this:

Dev Officer to Admissions: "I've got so and so coming whose father is so and so and they're contemplating a $5M gift to the school. This Ivy League school is not her top choice but she is on the waiting list for the other Ivy League School she likes better. I want you to get the chair of the department of the subject she wants to study to give her a private tour. Academically, I think she'll do alright here." Admissions: "OK, we'll arrange that".

Fuck me was that ever disgusting. But on the flip side - I saw personal checks from some of the wealthiest people on the planet.

Regarding Kushner - I know nothing about him but in light of first hand experience with how the wealthy acquire fancy credentials, I sure as shit don't believe that his resume means anything whatsoever. Just like Trump, he inherited his money and managed not to lose it all. That's good...but it doesn't necessarily require genius level anything.

it's one of those things that ironmayb just "knows" deep down inside.

Thanks for first hand insight. Nepotism in govt and lobbyists (reid & chamliss sons were i believe) really bites. Senior advisor is hilarious. But not all bad for kushner, he cut gov christie off at the knees.

You guys have convinced me. I stand corrected by the ST collective. Kushner is a rich kid idiot and shouldn't be considered qualified to advise, with or without nepotism.

Who else in trumps circle should we disqualify as a rich idiot? I think Tillerson next.

Trump?

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Did your wife go to school in the same building as him? That's the litmus test

Haha, I'm not arguing whether or not he's an idiot. I'm only providing first hand experience to discount the value of someone's resume when there's good reason to believe several line items may have been purchased.

It's entirely possible that Kushner would be a great advisor.

I, like you and vitus, think that he shouldn't get a job no matter what his qualifications. But since you brought up his qualifications as a potential argument, I decided to provide a counter point. Again, based on my limited experience in how prestigious schools manage their endowments.

I appreciate your insight

I think/thought idiot was an easy and non helpful position to take. From there it took on a different track, admittedly in part because of me

No, but she IS smarter than him.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I believe you

One of the new channels (think it was CBS) reported that basically there is nothing to this.

1. Because of Hillary's positions in Bills Staff the courts had already ruled the nepotism law does not apply to this type of position on the President's staff. it would apply to many other positions but not his personal staff.

2. He is not taking a salary. The only penalty for nepotism would be forfeiture of salary.

You may or may not like it, but there is precedence and no law is being broken.

Yes we are all quite impressed that your wife went to Frisch. And GW. You have gone out of your way to back door brag both of these. Without question the fact that she may have seen him in a hallway 18 years ago is far greater evidence of his capabilities than his qualifications on his Wiki page.

See here's the thing; I don't have a wiki page. But I'm not the guy who saw fit to call Kushner an idiot. That was you. I'm the guy who challenged you to describe your wiki page in relation to Kushner's so we could decide what qualified you to make that determination. Your qualification thus far is your wife attended the same school 18 years ago.

I bet they were close........ I bet Kushner could pick your wife out of a class photo......... and I bet that has nothing to do with how she feels about him........


EDIT: I don't particularly care about him one way or another. I don't think he should be any part of a Trump administration.

jesus mate, you might want to walk this back a bit

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

yeah you're probably right. But Trimink seems to be enjoying the ramp up.

When you read through our exchange just recognize I haven't used any term except what he has chosen to use first. Idiot, spoiled brat etc etc. We can throw those out at a faceless guy like Kushner but when they are used closer to home we get offended.

Also, I have been told to fuck myself, called a twat, and threatened in a veiled way about how he hopes we meet at an Ironman. Just in case walking back a bit is in order.

All because he decided to call Kushner an idiot and I challenged that position; in a thread where his intelligence really wasn't the issue.

But you are right; I am being a dick.

treimink

it has been brought to my attention that I am too far over the line, even for the LR.

I apologize to you and your wife and I retract everything I have said after this point. I will take your word for it that Kushner is an idiot. And I will vacate this thread. Carry on.

Thank you all. This makes me feel great - this discourse reminds me about natural diversity this sport used to enjoy decades ago when I join triathlon "club."

May I suggest modification to the original statement that might conclude this thread: Jared Kurshner is not qualified to be a senior White House adviser in any prior administration. Jared Kurshner is qualified to be a senior White House adviser for his FIL.

I'm thrilled that so many people are now interested in who the POTUS surrounds himself with. There may be hope for us, after all.

To be fair, Trump is only in Trump's circle half the time.

Isn't that the only reason why Mrs. Clinton was even an option for President?

I'd rather have smart people advising the new president rather than the whole Clinton Clan in for amother term. Get it?

meh. i feel sorry for him. he's so far off the mark on his typecasting it's entertaining. i grew up in a small town in northern indiana, we had little $, and my wife's family had even less. i think ironmayb thinks we met when our yachts crashed into each other on the long island sound.

'


jesus, mate, I guess if you were looking for an exhibition of class in this thread you are only going to get one..........