They occasionally train at a PA National Guard base close to me, I ride out that way often. That's a spooky sound.

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Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive

skip to 6:20

I love the A10. We used to have them at our local AFB. Our local 40k time trial course ran right by the base. I have fond memories of suffering horribly on the bike while watching the A10s come in low overhead.

My nephew is in the AF and has served as crew chief on A-10s, among other planes.

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I miss YaHey

Willow Grove ?
Now that I think about it the base is closed

I was on a golf course once and two of those came over the tree tops and were above our heads before we heard them. My buddy looked at me and said we never would have known what happened if we were in a war.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

Damn cool. I remember years ago reading about trials for a new ground support aircraft. Some guy shows up with a tricked out old P-51 Mustang and flew the pants off the big shots jet aircraft. Seems for very low level flight, with sharp turning capacity, and ability to carry massive amounts of rounds, a good old light, internal combustion airframe was the ticket. But the generals didn't want old school they wanted something techie and sexy so it wasn't considered.

This should be an interesting comparison. The F35 purchase has come completely off the rails in Canada with the government trying to justify buying new super hornets instead of the F35. It would be cool if they bought a bunch of A10's, but we still need fighters with long legs to protect our northern coast etc.


I've seen that A10 cannon up close and it's a scary bit of business.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...jets-really-gun.html

I think we would be far better off with a mix of A10's and some fighters to provide cover for them rather than a multi role trying to do 2 things 1/2 assed.

We used to a couple of A-10 squadrons in South Carolina. Those planes just about wiped out the whole Iraqi tank force. They are killing machines.

i don't know about 'best' but the A-10 is a plane built around a automatic cannon--the GAU-8A. I've been on the receiving end of A-10 CAS support and there's no substitute--unless you just want to dial up a JDAM from a bomb truck like the B1 or B52.

it is laughable to me that anyone would buy into the thesis that you could stick a 'pod' gun onto another aircraft and come anywhere close to the leathality of the GAU-8. There's simply no comparison. This B.S. about the F35 replacing the A-10 in a CAS role is just that--BS. Air Force double speak.

another poster asserted that piston aircraft are superior in a CAS role but that's simply not true. jet engined aircraft have a much higher availablity rate relative to piston driven a/c. We've had modern piston/prop driven CAS platforms--witness the Sky Raider or the Super Tocano (turbin powered prop) but they're simply not as robust as the Warthog/Thunderbolt.

just my opine but i would like to see the F-22 line opened again--that's the premier air superority fighter in the world. The F35 will eventually achieve effectiveness as a system of systems but it's no F-22 (nor intended to be).

of course i would also like to see a couple of the BB's brought back onto active status for naval gunfire support--or at least a couple heavy cruisers. but i recognize and acknowledge the manning problems these ships caused for my aquatic cousins of the sea service.

/r

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Steve

My buddy's dad flew one out of willow grove base and he also brought home an empty bullet they shot. It was huge. I think the bullet was more than 12 inches from base to tip. It was awesome seeing that as a kid.

Unfortunately he died in a plane crash when I was in college. He was a great guy.

There have been reports of issues with the A10 for years. Loved that plane.

Ft Indiantown Gap. The A10s used to come from Willow Grove to train there, but it did close. Now I think they come from somewhere in Maryland, and a lot less frequently.

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Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive

Agreed. Especially since we no longer have a foe with a sizable (or any) air force. A10's excel in a close air support role... tough a nails, simple and serviceable. Marines and soldiers love the A10.

Our Air Force is in love with being a air to air fighter service, and organizationally don't like ground support role. Combining that with it limited ground to air defenses and improvements "smart bombs" that can be deployed from other aircraft, its time is limited.

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Suffer Well.

• 
• 30 mm cannon

http://rebrn.com/...-it-fires-at-755913/

Nothing ugly about this:


Sorry to hear about your buddy!

The primary advantage of the GAU-8 is that you can provide fire support much closer to ground troops as opposed to the potential Frag from a precision guided JDAM.

At least for the low intensity conflicts we're currently fighting.

I agree regarding reopening the F-22 line. IMO the F-35 should be relegated to hunting SAM sites in the opening days of a war (which it would be good at). For CAS, I'm surprised the Air Force hasn't pushed for something like a miniaturized drone version of the AC-130 for daytime operations. I'm thinking of something along the lines of a semi-auto recoilless .50 cal mounted to a gimbal on the underside of a Reaper-sized drone optimized to fly at lower altitudes. If you have to deal with a tank or APC just call in an F-15 with a JDAM.

Many years ago I was in the Standard Class Glider Nationals held at the airport in Chester, SC. There was a particularly awesome soaring day during the contest and I was headed southeast fat & happy at about 5,000' cruising along at my 'fast' cruising speed of about 95kts. Suddenly, I heard the whine of jet engines, CLOSE jet engines, and my head started spinning around trying to spot them. After about 15 very anxious seconds, I spotted the cruciform shape of the A-10 planform at my 3 o'clock and same altitude in what appeared to be about a 90 degree bank angle. Then, his wingman appeared flying a loose formation with him. I thought that maybe I had accidentally penetrated some restricted airspace or something and I was being intercepted, but I had been flying that area for about 10 years and I knew there were no Restricted areas around. They circled me about three times, just looking, then dove off toward Shaw after a courteous wing rock. Cool as hell.

Greg

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If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

A10? That's a weird way to spell P51 Mustang....

Agree with most of what you say. The F-35 is going to be a great airplane....for $120 million a copy. An A-10 costs about $20 million if my memory serves. And, the F-35 is not even close to having the CAS capability of an A-10. The A-10 was built solely for that purpose and it excels at taking out bad guys on the ground ESPECIALLY if they are in a tank. If I was a bad guy in a tank and A-10's were overhead, I am out of the top hatch right now. Your lifespan as a tank crew member would be measured in minutes. The alternatives? Try using a JDAM on a moving tank, or mobile troops. Sometimes, there isn't any substitute for a good guy with a gun.

Love the F-22 Raptor and it is definitely THE air superiority fighter of the day. But, for CAS, just seems like hyper-expensive overkill. BTW, I met the Colonel that headed up the F-22 Training Squadron at Oshkosh a couple of years ago when they brought the F-35 to the show for it's first public showing. The Air Force transferred him from the F-22 squadron to the F-35 Training squadron. How lucky can one guy get?

Greg

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If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

So, I know lots of folks like to bash the F-35 and it's supposed inability to conduct CAS, but everybody needs to remember that in addition the A-10, the F-16 and the F-15E (and the B-1 and the B-52) have been doing CAS for a long time now, and the F-35 is essentially a very survivable F-16 in terms of size and weapons load out, so no reason why it wouldn't be at least as effective as the F-16 when it comes to CAS. Yes, the A-10 has some capabilities that are truly awesome and not to be found in any other jet. On the other hand, the A-10 has limited survivability on a modern battlefield with modern air defense systems as compared to an F-35.

As for killing a moving tank, yes the GAU-8 excels at that, but so does an AGM-65 Maverick missile, which can be carried by any tactical jet. A B-1 with CBU-105 Wind correct munitions dispensers could also lay waste to many, many moving tanks with one pass. Lots of capabilities to kill moving tanks...SDB II will also have that capability.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

I'm voting for the T-16. You can use them to bomb womp rats in Beggar's Canyon. I'm pretty sure that none of these planes on the list can claim that level of precision.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Good points, but it's the cost of the F-35 that makes it a tough sell for that mission in my mind. And, I suspect one CBU-105 costs as much as an A-10...;-P I have no idea what they actually cost, guessing here. As complex as it is, I suspect it is not a cheap weapon.

For the record, I don't like to bash any military hardware, I love all of 'em, including the Maverick missile. Yep, those will work on a tank, for sure. All that said, whenever I have seen F-16s deployed, they were using bombs and not guns. Maybe it's because the A-10s were standing by for gun runs and there was no need for the F-16s.

Greg

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If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

My dad once drove us to the Mach Loop in Wales and we got to see a couple of A-10s doing low-altitude passes down the valley. Amazing.

Australia has also ordered a heap of F35s and yet many were also think another generation of Super Hornets supplemented by a better CAS aircraft like the A10 would have given us decades of service without the incredible price tag of the F35.
But yes, we all know that F35 will be a better system, but did someone mention the price tag.....
and of course, the F35 purchase has many political machinations at the higher levels.

Both the F-16 and the F-15E have done 20mm strafing runs for CAS in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Obviously not as effective has HEI rounds from the 30mm GAU-8, but still pretty damn effective when the bad guys are too close for bombs.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Yes! That ammois ridiculous! Thanks.

My 2-cents (and FWIW, I flew ~4000 hours between F-4's, A-10's, and F-111's).

You can do CAS with an F-16, F-15E, AC-130, B-1, and B-52. When the F-35 gets up to speed, you could do CAS with them.

The best thing about the A-10 and CAS, that was the only mission we trained to do (with maybe a little bit of SAR escort). We weren't training to shoot down MIG's, bomb bridges in downtown Baghdad, or fly nuke strike missions. The pilots are good at doing CAS.

A big advantage when comparing A-10's to F-16's (and probably to F-35's) was the ability of an A-10 to loiter. We had quite a bit of gas and we could orbit for a long time waiting for something to happen compared to the "fighters".

While bombers have even more loiter time than an A-10, it's tough to employ JDAM's if the bad guys are moving around, especially if the bad guys are close to the friendlies.

In our current "wars", the bad guys don't have much in the way of air defense. A-10's and AC-130's are perfectly survivable. That could change, but if there are lots of sophisticated SAM's, MIG's, and radar directed AAA batteries around we're probably not doing much CAS anyway.

One last thing. In the A-10, we could fly low level in some pretty marginal weather. If you're just puking off JDAM's, you can fly around at high altitude in any weather. But when the ground pounders need the pilot to put "eyes on target", you have to be below the clouds. It was sure easier flying around low level in crappy weather in a 250-300 knot A-10 than it was in a 420-540 knot F-4/F-111. You sure aren't going to take an AC-130/B-1/B-52 and go around hand flying looking for bad guys with low ceilings and low visibility.

The USAF doesn't have all the money they want for everything, and the powers that be in the USAF would sure rather have F-35's than A-10's. The A-10's are old and CAS isn't viewed as the sexiest mission the USAF does. If the USAF had their way, the A-10's would all be in the boneyard by now. Thanks, Congress!

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

Don't disagree with a single thing in your post. My only point is that it seems like folks assume A-10s are the only planes that can do CAS, and are the only ones doing it now.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Shack, (3100 hrs between A-10 and MQ-1)

I imagine if the US had A10s during the Vietnam War. Just saying.