First!
http://www.nytimes.com/...-clinton-emails.html?
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"Go yell at an M&M"
http://www.nytimes.com/...-clinton-emails.html?
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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [klehner]
[ In reply to ]
"Other Secretaries of State did it, so it was okay for Hillary to do it" Sure. My parents always accepted that excuse when I tried it as a child.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [klehner]
[ In reply to ]
What do you think. I've been an internal auditor most of my career. I can tell you this is a combination of what was most important. To me it is a big deal. But Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [klehner]
[ In reply to ]
Look at the scoreboard behind Corrupt Hillary. The time is 20:16 and the score is even at 45 - 45.
Photoshopped?
Photoshopped?
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [klehner]
[ In reply to ]
We can hope she's indicted later today......Bernie vs. Trump for the fate of the free world!
"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."
"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [rick_pcfl]
[ In reply to ]
It didn't say that. It says that document retention policy that loose under prior administration. Having a server offsite is unprecedented. They also suffered a scope limitations due to clinton and team failing to cooperate.
You have to view an if report like an internal audit report. Igs and internal auditors have he same training and follow very similar standard.
If you are an employee in a company or gov't agency causing a scope limitation, you can suffer major consequences of the scope of the audit is mundane. But if the scope is a fraud investigation or investigation into wrong doings, you can face jail time in certain circumstances.
The only exception to such would be invoking fifth amendment rights and that means you feel your statements would implicate you in a crime.
But these are appointees and political hacks placed into position. So I guess the normal rules don't apply.
Again, if these were any other people, they would be jailed. Somebody has to go down just so people keep some faith in the system.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
You have to view an if report like an internal audit report. Igs and internal auditors have he same training and follow very similar standard.
If you are an employee in a company or gov't agency causing a scope limitation, you can suffer major consequences of the scope of the audit is mundane. But if the scope is a fraud investigation or investigation into wrong doings, you can face jail time in certain circumstances.
The only exception to such would be invoking fifth amendment rights and that means you feel your statements would implicate you in a crime.
But these are appointees and political hacks placed into position. So I guess the normal rules don't apply.
Again, if these were any other people, they would be jailed. Somebody has to go down just so people keep some faith in the system.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
TheForge wrote:
It didn't say that. It says that document retention policy that loose under prior administration. Having a server offsite is unprecedented. They also suffered a scope limitations due to clinton and team failing to cooperate. You have to view an if report like an internal audit report. Igs and internal auditors have he same training and follow very similar standard.
If you are an employee in a company or gov't agency causing a scope limitation, you can suffer major consequences of the scope of the audit is mundane. But if the scope is a fraud investigation or investigation into wrong doings, you can face jail time in certain circumstances.
The only exception to such would be invoking fifth amendment rights and that means you feel your statements would implicate you in a crime.
But these are appointees and political hacks placed into position. So I guess the normal rules don't apply.
Again, if these were any other people, they would be jailed. Somebody has to go down just so people keep some faith in the system.
Nobody went to jail for the largest perpetration of financial fraud in the history of the world. Who gives a f*ck about an email server?
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [xtremrun]
[ In reply to ]
Unfortunately you are right. But we're not just talking about jail.
If you ask any average joe or Jane if people should have gone to jail for the housing crisis, they would say yes.
So to say nobody gives a damn isn't so. Instead the correct term is cynical. That the system protects certain people and this is just another case. I do think people care when when people walk for things that average people would be jailed for. But I think society feels there is nothing they can do.
That is why Bernie and trump
Are popular. And that is why I think trump had a better chance than expected of pulling it off.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
If you ask any average joe or Jane if people should have gone to jail for the housing crisis, they would say yes.
So to say nobody gives a damn isn't so. Instead the correct term is cynical. That the system protects certain people and this is just another case. I do think people care when when people walk for things that average people would be jailed for. But I think society feels there is nothing they can do.
That is why Bernie and trump
Are popular. And that is why I think trump had a better chance than expected of pulling it off.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
TheForge wrote:
Unfortunately you are right. But we're not just talking about jail. If you ask any average joe or Jane if people should have gone to jail for the housing crisis, they would say yes.
So to say nobody gives a damn isn't so. Instead the correct term is cynical. That the system protects certain people and this is just another case. I do think people care when when people walk for things that average people would be jailed for. But I think society feels there is nothing they can do.
That is why Bernie and trump
Are popular. And that is why I think trump had a better chance than expected of pulling it off.
I agree with it being cynical. I just think for the average person, the email scandal rates somewhere below inflate-gate.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [rick_pcfl]
[ In reply to ]
rick_pcfl wrote:
"Other Secretaries of State did it, so it was okay for Hillary to do it" Sure. My parents always accepted that excuse when I tried it as a child.So since this has been done by other Secretaries of State are you for prosecuting them?
_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheRef65]
[ In reply to ]
How can you compare the two? Yes, prior DOS used extra-departmental email address like google. But she had hardware installed specifically to avoid being on the State Dept server. Also, policies were updated during her tenure to address this. It has already been debunked the comparison is valid.
She has also lied as highlighted in the report and compared in this article.
1. That she followed the rule - false, the report says she didn't.
2. She fully cooperated - false, the report has a scope limitation and states that here and her staff did not cooperate.
3. That it was for convenience - false, there is testimony it was designed to avoid FOIA, which was the first thing most people suspected.
4. Here website and her said it wasn't hacked - false, IT staff confirmed it was hacked.
So at best she is a fucking liar on matters that aren't trivial.
http://townhall.com/...-email-lies-n2168836
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
She has also lied as highlighted in the report and compared in this article.
1. That she followed the rule - false, the report says she didn't.
2. She fully cooperated - false, the report has a scope limitation and states that here and her staff did not cooperate.
3. That it was for convenience - false, there is testimony it was designed to avoid FOIA, which was the first thing most people suspected.
4. Here website and her said it wasn't hacked - false, IT staff confirmed it was hacked.
So at best she is a fucking liar on matters that aren't trivial.
http://townhall.com/...-email-lies-n2168836
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [Old Hickory]
[ In reply to ]
Old Hickory wrote:
Look at the scoreboard behind Corrupt Hillary. The time is 20:16 and the score is even at 45 - 45. Photoshopped?
I don't think so. The caption under the photo says it was from yesterday and the name above the left score looks a lot like "Hillary."
-------------
"Life is fragile - we are all just a slip or a car crash away from being a very different person."
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
No, the report didn't say it but the Hillary camp did in their response, "Clinton spokesman says inspector general's report shown Clinton's email practices consistent with that of former Secretaries of State." For their sake they had better workshop this excuse a little more before trotting it out further.
I think Rick's point was that blaming others for one's behavior stopped working sometime around Kindergarten.
I think Rick's point was that blaming others for one's behavior stopped working sometime around Kindergarten.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
So others did it but not to the same extent she did. Where do you draw the line, when is it ok and when is it not?
_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
3. That it was for convenience - false, there is testimony it was designed to avoid FOIA, which was the first thing most people suspected.
This and the fact that it allowed her to blur the line between official correspondence and private correspondence are the real issues to me. I always thought the questions around classified information were a dead end and not where the meat of this is.
I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
This and the fact that it allowed her to blur the line between official correspondence and private correspondence are the real issues to me. I always thought the questions around classified information were a dead end and not where the meat of this is.
I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheRef65]
[ In reply to ]
TheRef65 wrote:
So others did it but not to the same extent she did. Where do you draw the line, when is it ok and when is it not?The line is already drawn. There's really not any need for confusion on where the line is drawn. It's written down in black and white. The question is whether or not anyone will enforce the rules that exist.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
It's written down in black and white. The question is whether or not anyone will enforce the rules that exist.
Assuming the rules are enforced, what is the penalty?
Assuming the rules are enforced, what is the penalty?
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
Sanuk wrote:
It's written down in black and white. The question is whether or not anyone will enforce the rules that exist. Assuming the rules are enforced, what is the penalty?
Well played. The 'penalty' should be not be a promotion to POTUS.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
slowguy wrote:
TheRef65 wrote:
So others did it but not to the same extent she did. Where do you draw the line, when is it ok and when is it not?The line is already drawn. There's really not any need for confusion on where the line is drawn. It's written down in black and white. The question is whether or not anyone will enforce the rules that exist.
That's my point. Just because she did it on a larger scale doesn't mean it should be treated differently. If it's wrong for one, it's wrong for all. Maybe the penalties should reflect scale as it does in other crimes but it should not be ignored.
_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
Sanuk wrote:
It's written down in black and white. The question is whether or not anyone will enforce the rules that exist. Assuming the rules are enforced, what is the penalty?
I'm not a lawyer, so this is just a guess, but I'd say she might have committed several violations. Potentially, she violated the law on Federal Records Keeping, the laws and/or Executive Order on handling of classified materials in e-mails, and the Freedom of Information Act.
Penalties for a violator could be fines and/or jail time, and potentially forfeiture of current office and prohibition against holding any other public office (Presidency not included). Specifics on fine amounts and years in jail,...a lawyer would have to figure out and it would potentially depend on the number of violations committed.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [gotsand]
[ In reply to ]
Well played. The 'penalty' should be not be a promotion to POTUS.
If that is a defined penalty then it is appropriate but it likely isn't.
If there are rules there should be written consequences for breaking them and if she broke the rules, then apply those penalties. The same goes for the other Secretaries. Then, finally we can put this to bed.
If that is a defined penalty then it is appropriate but it likely isn't.
If there are rules there should be written consequences for breaking them and if she broke the rules, then apply those penalties. The same goes for the other Secretaries. Then, finally we can put this to bed.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheRef65]
[ In reply to ]
I think they should all be trotted out. But if you can't see the difference between using a gmail account for convenience because the DOS IT infrastructure was not in line with current technological advances and setting up a server when these prior issues were mitigated, I cannot help you.
As I stated, the intent was to avoid FOIA. She was instructed on new policy that was put in place to address prior SOS from doing this yet did it anyways. That alone is a clear line.
Texting while driving was once accepted. Lets say it is still legal and I continue to do it and get in a accident. I cannot be found guilty of driving while texting. Sure, there are other violations you could find. But lets day the day after my accident, society deems it a danger and passes a law about texting and driving that goes in effect immediately. The law is broadcast and communicated adequately. My employer even instructs me on the law for cases where I use my vehicle or a company vehicle for company business. Yet a week later, there I am texting and driving. A coworker gets in an accident and evidence shows he was texting and driving. Well now he can be found guilty of it. Saying it wasn't enforced the prior is not a valid excuse.
Why you Hillary supporters can't see this I do not know. So maybe I comment from one of the foremost experts on Gov't Information and Disclosure policy will help you.
Dan Metcalf, spent more than a quarter-century as founding director of the Justice Department’s Office of Information and Privacy, effectively serving as the federal government’s chief information-disclosure “guru.â€
To be sure, this cannot as a practical matter be absolute. When Obama administration officials came into office in 2009, the Federal Records Act certainly allowed room for the occasional use of a personal email account for official business where necessary—such as when a secretary of state understandably must deal with a crisis around the world in the middle of the night while an official email device might not be readily at hand. That just makes sense. But even then, in such an exceptional situation, the Federal Records Act’s documentation and preservation requirements still called upon that official (or a staff assistant) to forward any such email into the State Department’s official records system, where it would have been located otherwise.
This appears to be exactly what former Secretary of State Colin Powell did during his tenure, just as other high-level government officials may do (or are supposed to do) under such exceptional circumstances during their times in office. Notwithstanding Secretary Clinton’s sweeping claims to the contrary, there actually is no indication in any of the public discussions of this “scandal†that anyone other than she managed to do what she did (or didn’t) do as a federal official.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/...116116#ixzz49gxLZAyz
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
As I stated, the intent was to avoid FOIA. She was instructed on new policy that was put in place to address prior SOS from doing this yet did it anyways. That alone is a clear line.
Texting while driving was once accepted. Lets say it is still legal and I continue to do it and get in a accident. I cannot be found guilty of driving while texting. Sure, there are other violations you could find. But lets day the day after my accident, society deems it a danger and passes a law about texting and driving that goes in effect immediately. The law is broadcast and communicated adequately. My employer even instructs me on the law for cases where I use my vehicle or a company vehicle for company business. Yet a week later, there I am texting and driving. A coworker gets in an accident and evidence shows he was texting and driving. Well now he can be found guilty of it. Saying it wasn't enforced the prior is not a valid excuse.
Why you Hillary supporters can't see this I do not know. So maybe I comment from one of the foremost experts on Gov't Information and Disclosure policy will help you.
Dan Metcalf, spent more than a quarter-century as founding director of the Justice Department’s Office of Information and Privacy, effectively serving as the federal government’s chief information-disclosure “guru.â€
To be sure, this cannot as a practical matter be absolute. When Obama administration officials came into office in 2009, the Federal Records Act certainly allowed room for the occasional use of a personal email account for official business where necessary—such as when a secretary of state understandably must deal with a crisis around the world in the middle of the night while an official email device might not be readily at hand. That just makes sense. But even then, in such an exceptional situation, the Federal Records Act’s documentation and preservation requirements still called upon that official (or a staff assistant) to forward any such email into the State Department’s official records system, where it would have been located otherwise.
This appears to be exactly what former Secretary of State Colin Powell did during his tenure, just as other high-level government officials may do (or are supposed to do) under such exceptional circumstances during their times in office. Notwithstanding Secretary Clinton’s sweeping claims to the contrary, there actually is no indication in any of the public discussions of this “scandal†that anyone other than she managed to do what she did (or didn’t) do as a federal official.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/...116116#ixzz49gxLZAyz
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
TheForge wrote:
I think they should all be trotted out. But if you can't see the difference between using a gmail account for convenience because the DOS IT infrastructure was not in line with current technological advances and setting up a server when these prior issues were mitigated, I cannot help you. As I stated, the intent was to avoid FOIA. She was instructed on new policy that was put in place to address prior SOS from doing this yet did it anyways. That alone is a clear line.
Texting while driving was once accepted. Lets say it is still legal and I continue to do it and get in a accident. I cannot be found guilty of driving while texting. Sure, there are other violations you could find. But lets day the day after my accident, society deems it a danger and passes a law about texting and driving that goes in effect immediately. The law is broadcast and communicated adequately. My employer even instructs me on the law for cases where I use my vehicle or a company vehicle for company business. Yet a week later, there I am texting and driving. A coworker gets in an accident and evidence shows he was texting and driving. Well now he can be found guilty of it. Saying it wasn't enforced the prior is not a valid excuse.
Why you Hillary supporters can't see this I do not know. So maybe I comment from one of the foremost experts on Gov't Information and Disclosure policy will help you.
Dan Metcalf, spent more than a quarter-century as founding director of the Justice Department’s Office of Information and Privacy, effectively serving as the federal government’s chief information-disclosure “guru.â€
To be sure, this cannot as a practical matter be absolute. When Obama administration officials came into office in 2009, the Federal Records Act certainly allowed room for the occasional use of a personal email account for official business where necessary—such as when a secretary of state understandably must deal with a crisis around the world in the middle of the night while an official email device might not be readily at hand. That just makes sense. But even then, in such an exceptional situation, the Federal Records Act’s documentation and preservation requirements still called upon that official (or a staff assistant) to forward any such email into the State Department’s official records system, where it would have been located otherwise.
This appears to be exactly what former Secretary of State Colin Powell did during his tenure, just as other high-level government officials may do (or are supposed to do) under such exceptional circumstances during their times in office. Notwithstanding Secretary Clinton’s sweeping claims to the contrary, there actually is no indication in any of the public discussions of this “scandal†that anyone other than she managed to do what she did (or didn’t) do as a federal official.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/...116116#ixzz49gxLZAyz
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
So if all of this is new technology, how in the world did other SOS's engage in emergencies without e-mail. Please, I'm sure this has been going on with other methods of communication prior to this. The convenience argument is bullshit. If you think this is isolated to Clinton then I'm sorry, I can't help you.
What in my question indicate that I am a Hillary supporter? Did I say she should be excused from the rules? Did I say this was acceptable behavior? I would like to see equal vitriol. If it's wrong for one then it's wrong for all and they should be punished according to the rules and the severity of the crime.
_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [xtremrun]
[ In reply to ]
[/quote] Nobody went to jail for the largest perpetration of financial fraud in the history of the world. Who gives a f*ck about an email server?[/quote]
False dichotomy. Just because nobody was successfully prosecuted for any crimes that may have been committed during the 2008 financial crisis doesn't mean that we then stop prosecuting any crimes. I give a fuck about the email server because it is yet one more indication that Hillary and those like her don't think that that the rules apply to them.
Spot
___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
False dichotomy. Just because nobody was successfully prosecuted for any crimes that may have been committed during the 2008 financial crisis doesn't mean that we then stop prosecuting any crimes. I give a fuck about the email server because it is yet one more indication that Hillary and those like her don't think that that the rules apply to them.
Spot
___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [spot]
[ In reply to ]
I give a fuck about the email server because it is yet one more indication that Hillary and those like her don't think that that the rules apply to them.
I don't think it's a matter of Hilary and those like her don't think the rules apply to her as much as the rules aren't being applied to them. Isn't that more the fault of the system that Hilary is taking advantage?
I don't think it's a matter of Hilary and those like her don't think the rules apply to her as much as the rules aren't being applied to them. Isn't that more the fault of the system that Hilary is taking advantage?
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
Sanuk wrote:
I give a fuck about the email server because it is yet one more indication that Hillary and those like her don't think that that the rules apply to them. I don't think it's a matter of Hilary and those like her don't think the rules apply to her as much as the rules aren't being applied to them. Isn't that more the fault of the system that Hilary is taking advantage?
Fault lies on both sides. Sec Clinton apparently felt like she didn't have to follow the rules. The people charged with enforcing the rules didn't hold her accountable, reinforcing her sense of entitlement to do business however she wanted.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [xtremrun]
[ In reply to ]
Quote:
Nobody went to jail for the largest perpetration of financial fraud in the history of the world. Who gives a f*ck about an email server?Who do you think should go to jail for the housing crisis? Name names and specific crimes you believe they committed.And saying Bank CEO's for ripping people off doesn't count.
A lot of people care about Hillary setting up a private email sever to intentionally hide her activities, avoid FOIA, avoid DoS/congressional oversight.
.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheRef65]
[ In reply to ]
TheRef65 wrote:
TheForge wrote:
I think they should all be trotted out. But if you can't see the difference between using a gmail account for convenience because the DOS IT infrastructure was not in line with current technological advances and setting up a server when these prior issues were mitigated, I cannot help you. As I stated, the intent was to avoid FOIA. She was instructed on new policy that was put in place to address prior SOS from doing this yet did it anyways. That alone is a clear line.
Texting while driving was once accepted. Lets say it is still legal and I continue to do it and get in a accident. I cannot be found guilty of driving while texting. Sure, there are other violations you could find. But lets day the day after my accident, society deems it a danger and passes a law about texting and driving that goes in effect immediately. The law is broadcast and communicated adequately. My employer even instructs me on the law for cases where I use my vehicle or a company vehicle for company business. Yet a week later, there I am texting and driving. A coworker gets in an accident and evidence shows he was texting and driving. Well now he can be found guilty of it. Saying it wasn't enforced the prior is not a valid excuse.
Why you Hillary supporters can't see this I do not know. So maybe I comment from one of the foremost experts on Gov't Information and Disclosure policy will help you.
Dan Metcalf, spent more than a quarter-century as founding director of the Justice Department’s Office of Information and Privacy, effectively serving as the federal government’s chief information-disclosure “guru.â€
To be sure, this cannot as a practical matter be absolute. When Obama administration officials came into office in 2009, the Federal Records Act certainly allowed room for the occasional use of a personal email account for official business where necessary—such as when a secretary of state understandably must deal with a crisis around the world in the middle of the night while an official email device might not be readily at hand. That just makes sense. But even then, in such an exceptional situation, the Federal Records Act’s documentation and preservation requirements still called upon that official (or a staff assistant) to forward any such email into the State Department’s official records system, where it would have been located otherwise.
This appears to be exactly what former Secretary of State Colin Powell did during his tenure, just as other high-level government officials may do (or are supposed to do) under such exceptional circumstances during their times in office. Notwithstanding Secretary Clinton’s sweeping claims to the contrary, there actually is no indication in any of the public discussions of this “scandal†that anyone other than she managed to do what she did (or didn’t) do as a federal official.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/...116116#ixzz49gxLZAyz
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
So if all of this is new technology, how in the world did other SOS's engage in emergencies without e-mail. Please, I'm sure this has been going on with other methods of communication prior to this. The convenience argument is bullshit. If you think this is isolated to Clinton then I'm sorry, I can't help you.
What in my question indicate that I am a Hillary supporter? Did I say she should be excused from the rules? Did I say this was acceptable behavior? I would like to see equal vitriol. If it's wrong for one then it's wrong for all and they should be punished according to the rules and the severity of the crime.
I never said they didn't communicate without email. To explain the IT environment of the federal gov't in 2005, I can explain. I worked as a consultant at the Bureau of Indian Affairs within the Dept of Interior. The federal gov't had shut down internet access to all agencies that were not mission specific for a brief period with the Bureau of Indian Affairs being last because they were the reason for the shutdown. We as consultants had to use air cards to check our emails.
The IG report and this article I just provided give you all the guidance a reasonable person would need to know that the rules prior to Obama allowed rare exceptions and the rules were changed for the better and communicated to Clinton and staff. As others have pointed out, the rules were very black and white.
Why is this so hard for you to understand? My only logic could be you are a Clinton supporter. And how do I know this? You have been at odds with me in most topics. Admitting that she is the scum of the earth who doesn't think rules apply to her who may have violated law means 4 years of Trump. You don't want that, so you are grasping at straws to argue that this isn't any different.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
TheForge wrote:
TheRef65 wrote:
TheForge wrote:
I think they should all be trotted out. But if you can't see the difference between using a gmail account for convenience because the DOS IT infrastructure was not in line with current technological advances and setting up a server when these prior issues were mitigated, I cannot help you. As I stated, the intent was to avoid FOIA. She was instructed on new policy that was put in place to address prior SOS from doing this yet did it anyways. That alone is a clear line.
Texting while driving was once accepted. Lets say it is still legal and I continue to do it and get in a accident. I cannot be found guilty of driving while texting. Sure, there are other violations you could find. But lets day the day after my accident, society deems it a danger and passes a law about texting and driving that goes in effect immediately. The law is broadcast and communicated adequately. My employer even instructs me on the law for cases where I use my vehicle or a company vehicle for company business. Yet a week later, there I am texting and driving. A coworker gets in an accident and evidence shows he was texting and driving. Well now he can be found guilty of it. Saying it wasn't enforced the prior is not a valid excuse.
Why you Hillary supporters can't see this I do not know. So maybe I comment from one of the foremost experts on Gov't Information and Disclosure policy will help you.
Dan Metcalf, spent more than a quarter-century as founding director of the Justice Department’s Office of Information and Privacy, effectively serving as the federal government’s chief information-disclosure “guru.â€
To be sure, this cannot as a practical matter be absolute. When Obama administration officials came into office in 2009, the Federal Records Act certainly allowed room for the occasional use of a personal email account for official business where necessary—such as when a secretary of state understandably must deal with a crisis around the world in the middle of the night while an official email device might not be readily at hand. That just makes sense. But even then, in such an exceptional situation, the Federal Records Act’s documentation and preservation requirements still called upon that official (or a staff assistant) to forward any such email into the State Department’s official records system, where it would have been located otherwise.
This appears to be exactly what former Secretary of State Colin Powell did during his tenure, just as other high-level government officials may do (or are supposed to do) under such exceptional circumstances during their times in office. Notwithstanding Secretary Clinton’s sweeping claims to the contrary, there actually is no indication in any of the public discussions of this “scandal†that anyone other than she managed to do what she did (or didn’t) do as a federal official.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/...116116#ixzz49gxLZAyz
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
So if all of this is new technology, how in the world did other SOS's engage in emergencies without e-mail. Please, I'm sure this has been going on with other methods of communication prior to this. The convenience argument is bullshit. If you think this is isolated to Clinton then I'm sorry, I can't help you.
What in my question indicate that I am a Hillary supporter? Did I say she should be excused from the rules? Did I say this was acceptable behavior? I would like to see equal vitriol. If it's wrong for one then it's wrong for all and they should be punished according to the rules and the severity of the crime.
I never said they didn't communicate without email. To explain the IT environment of the federal gov't in 2005, I can explain. I worked as a consultant at the Bureau of Indian Affairs within the Dept of Interior. The federal gov't had shut down internet access to all agencies that were not mission specific for a brief period with the Bureau of Indian Affairs being last because they were the reason for the shutdown. We as consultants had to use air cards to check our emails.
The IG report and this article I just provided give you all the guidance a reasonable person would need to know that the rules prior to Obama allowed rare exceptions and the rules were changed for the better and communicated to Clinton and staff. As others have pointed out, the rules were very black and white.
Why is this so hard for you to understand? My only logic could be you are a Clinton supporter. And how do I know this? You have been at odds with me in most topics. Admitting that she is the scum of the earth who doesn't think rules apply to her who may have violated law means 4 years of Trump. You don't want that, so you are grasping at straws to argue that this isn't any different.
Wow, how did you pull this out of your ass? I have not said once she should not be punished. I have not said once that she hasn't violated any law. If you're logic is that "you have been at odds with me in most topics" equates to a Hillary supporter I would suggest you go back and re-think your logic.
Is there any job you haven't done? You seem to have experience, so you're an expert, in everything.
_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheRef65]
[ In reply to ]
Dude I was a staff auditor with public accounting firm in the DC area. We were hired to clean up the financials. This job is why I left public. People working till 5 am. They were at risk of failing an audit. Cleanup was phase 1. Phase 2 was to if land and asset holdings as tribes were suing for royalties and the Feds with their crappy records couldn't verify what they owed.
It was just one of many I did in public.
Some of us have done a lot of things and that is why we do t underpants people content working a factory job 9 to 5.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
It was just one of many I did in public.
Some of us have done a lot of things and that is why we do t underpants people content working a factory job 9 to 5.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
slowguy wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
I give a fuck about the email server because it is yet one more indication that Hillary and those like her don't think that that the rules apply to them. I don't think it's a matter of Hilary and those like her don't think the rules apply to her as much as the rules aren't being applied to them. Isn't that more the fault of the system that Hilary is taking advantage?
Fault lies on both sides. Sec Clinton apparently felt like she didn't have to follow the rules. The people charged with enforcing the rules didn't hold her accountable, reinforcing her sense of entitlement to do business however she wanted.
Who are the people charged with enforcing the rules for the SoS?
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheRef65]
[ In reply to ]
That's what he does. Pulls shit out of his ass. And he's done every job there is, and is smarter than you and is an expert at everything. Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, he's also an Alpha Male, so watch out.
"Honestly, triathlon is a pussified version of duathlon on that final run."- Desert Dude
"Honestly, triathlon is a pussified version of duathlon on that final run."- Desert Dude
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
slowguy wrote:
Penalties for a violator could be fines and/or jail time, and potentially forfeiture of current office and prohibition against holding any other public office (Presidency not included). Specifics on fine amounts and years in jail,...a lawyer would have to figure out and it would potentially depend on the number of violations committed.This is what bothers me. If anyone else in the federal government did the same thing, we would at least lose our jobs, any hope at ever holding any type of clearance and possibly jail time.
I literally can not understand how she gets a pass.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
Sanuk wrote:
I give a fuck about the email server because it is yet one more indication that Hillary and those like her don't think that that the rules apply to them. I don't think it's a matter of Hilary and those like her don't think the rules apply to her as much as the rules aren't being applied to them. Isn't that more the fault of the system that Hilary is taking advantage?
For starters, I haven't read the details on this, but if the State Dept IG report is accurate, then they didn't know that she was using a private email server, so that would be tough for them to apply rules if they didn't know they were being broken. Second, there is no way that Hillary didn't know she was breaking rules, assuming that she had to take the same mandatory instruction that every other government employee has to take regarding classified information and record keeping. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if she was taking advantage of a lax system; she was breaking the law and she knew it, or should have damn well known it.
___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [teekona]
[ In reply to ]
What job have I said I've done that isn't believable? Or are you just pulling stuff out of your ass.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [spot]
[ In reply to ]
Quote:
...they didn't know that she was using a private email server, so that would be tough for them to apply rules if they didn't know they were being broken.I don't know how this is possible. She had to get e-mails somehow. If she was using DoS systems, she would have had a DoS e-mail address, like Clinton@state.gov. Her private serve must have had some other address structure. Additionally, her DoS account (if she had one) would have had virtually no activity, no data in storage, etc. All things the IT departments track, along with applying security updates, etc. I find it nearly impossible to believe that the people who should have known, didn't know. I haven't read the whole Ig report yet, so maybe it's explained there, but I'm having trouble imagining it, absent Sec Clinton deliberately spoofing a DoS e-mail address structure to make it look like she was using a DoS system.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
Certainly there were people who knew. The report makes that clear -- but not the extent of who knew.
But more generally, what effect, if any, do you, and others, think this will have?
I've seen three potentially damaging bits from the report: (1) there were attempts to hack her account and they were not reported, (2) she did not cooperate with the inspector, and (3) there was an email where she objected to using govt system because people could get at her "personal."
What boggles my mind about this is that no one in her inner circle could say to her: Look all your personal stuff goes on your personal blackberry and for all govt business you use the government server. How hard would that have been? I know she's older, but my dad is then years older and travels with macbook, iPad, and iPhone.
________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
But more generally, what effect, if any, do you, and others, think this will have?
I've seen three potentially damaging bits from the report: (1) there were attempts to hack her account and they were not reported, (2) she did not cooperate with the inspector, and (3) there was an email where she objected to using govt system because people could get at her "personal."
What boggles my mind about this is that no one in her inner circle could say to her: Look all your personal stuff goes on your personal blackberry and for all govt business you use the government server. How hard would that have been? I know she's older, but my dad is then years older and travels with macbook, iPad, and iPhone.
________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [Old Hickory]
[ In reply to ]
Old Hickory wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
I give a fuck about the email server because it is yet one more indication that Hillary and those like her don't think that that the rules apply to them. I don't think it's a matter of Hilary and those like her don't think the rules apply to her as much as the rules aren't being applied to them. Isn't that more the fault of the system that Hilary is taking advantage?
Fault lies on both sides. Sec Clinton apparently felt like she didn't have to follow the rules. The people charged with enforcing the rules didn't hold her accountable, reinforcing her sense of entitlement to do business however she wanted.
Who are the people charged with enforcing the rules for the SoS?
I am assuming that, like the DoD, DoS has a department that is responsible for IT systems, compliance, security, etc. They administer the network, enforce network security, grant access, build accounts, etc. They are also the people who are supposed to report violations. Of course, they would report them up the chain of command, and it would have to be someone at the top of that chain who would be required to hold the SoS accountable, or report her for legal violations to the DoJ.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
Quote:
I find it nearly impossible to believe that the people who should have known, didn't know.Further on that point. I completely agree with you. My conspiracy theory from the beginning (maybe I mentioned it here) is that at some point someone mentioned it to Obama or at least his inner circle and they responded (orally as they have a bit more sense): "that is her bed, let her make it and sleep in it." I suspect they figured that any scandal would likely be hers alone (as it largely has been) and didn't think it was worth fussing with her. On the other hand, if national secrets were compromised, then that does come back to Obama.
________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
slowguy wrote:
Quote:
...they didn't know that she was using a private email server, so that would be tough for them to apply rules if they didn't know they were being broken.I don't know how this is possible. She had to get e-mails somehow. If she was using DoS systems, she would have had a DoS e-mail address, like Clinton@state.gov. Her private serve must have had some other address structure. Additionally, her DoS account (if she had one) would have had virtually no activity, no data in storage, etc. All things the IT departments track, along with applying security updates, etc. I find it nearly impossible to believe that the people who should have known, didn't know. I haven't read the whole Ig report yet, so maybe it's explained there, but I'm having trouble imagining it, absent Sec Clinton deliberately spoofing a DoS e-mail address structure to make it look like she was using a DoS system.
Yeah, don't disagree. There is something way fishy going on here. For example, I'm pretty sure her email address wasn't @state.gov, considering her private server. So how on earth did that not ring any bells???
___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [spot]
[ In reply to ]
Second, there is no way that Hillary didn't know she was breaking rules, assuming that she had to take the same mandatory instruction that every other government employee has to take regarding classified information and record keeping. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if she was taking advantage of a lax system; she was breaking the law and she knew it, or should have damn well known it.
I agree however, my bet is she will not be punished and if she is, it will be a fine.
You can have all the rules/laws you want but if people aren't going to enforce them against people like Hilary, they will continue to get away with things. You can blame Hilary or anyone else, but the fault is with the system and those unwilling to prosecute.
I agree however, my bet is she will not be punished and if she is, it will be a fine.
You can have all the rules/laws you want but if people aren't going to enforce them against people like Hilary, they will continue to get away with things. You can blame Hilary or anyone else, but the fault is with the system and those unwilling to prosecute.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
Sanuk wrote:
Second, there is no way that Hillary didn't know she was breaking rules, assuming that she had to take the same mandatory instruction that every other government employee has to take regarding classified information and record keeping. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if she was taking advantage of a lax system; she was breaking the law and she knew it, or should have damn well known it. I agree however, my bet is she will not be punished and if she is, it will be a fine.
You can have all the rules/laws you want but if people aren't going to enforce them against people like Hilary, they will continue to get away with things. You can blame Hilary or anyone else, but the fault is with the system and those unwilling to prosecute.
Well, like Slowguy said, the fault really lies with both. At the end of the day, though, if she skates, this will yet be another nail in the coffin for anyone who thinks that the rule of law applies to everyone equally in this country.
___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [spot]
[ In reply to ]
The more I read, the more pissed off I get.
http://www.politico.com/...-state-report-223574
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
http://www.politico.com/...-state-report-223574
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [spot]
[ In reply to ]
At the end of the day, though, if she skates, this will yet be another nail in the coffin for anyone who thinks that the rule of law applies to everyone equally in this country.
At least with regards to the Clintons (both of them), I have pretty much given up on the idea that the rule of laws apply equally to everyone. They just seem to get away with way too much. If you or I did a fraction of what they have done, we'd be behind bars for life.
At least with regards to the Clintons (both of them), I have pretty much given up on the idea that the rule of laws apply equally to everyone. They just seem to get away with way too much. If you or I did a fraction of what they have done, we'd be behind bars for life.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
What I want to see is the recommendations, conclusions and opinion on the report. I can't seem to find the actual report, but all reports have a purpose, scope, methodology, finding, recommendations and conclusions.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
TheForge wrote:
What I want to see is the recommendations, conclusions and opinion on the report. I can't seem to find the actual report, but all reports have a purpose, scope, methodology, finding, recommendations and conclusions.Click on the link in the op. The article has a link to the report.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheRef65]
[ In reply to ]
TheRef65 wrote:
Wow, how did you pull this out of your ass? I have not said once she should not be punished. I have not said once that she hasn't violated any law. If you're logic is that "you have been at odds with me in most topics" equates to a Hillary supporter I would suggest you go back and re-think your logic. Is there any job you haven't done? You seem to have experience, so you're an expert, in everything.
I guess some of us are Hillary "supporters" in the same vein that Duffy protests being labeled a Drumpf "supporter" ~ I can go down the list and check the boxes indicating I believe Hillary is guilty of knowingly breaking rules, so then what? Just like any other transgression on the continuum from jaywalking to flying hijacked planes into a public building, it's all a relative judgement still. If she gets indicted, I agree it's deserved. If she isn't and shows up on a ballot opposing Drumpf, I don't consider him to be one whit more honest or trustworthy, or any less self-serving and Machiavellian, so I guess that's "giving her a pass" in Forge's parlance. Seriously, Drumpf thinks rules apply to him the same as the rest of us? If someone likes him better because his world view and priorities are more aligned with theirs, by all means vote for the guy, but to vote for Drumpf based on the premise that she's a self-serving liar and he's not is fucking comical. He's only not broken any rules of public office because he hasn't held any yet.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
TheForge wrote:
Some of us have done a lot of things and that is why we do t underpants people content working a factory job 9 to 5.Huh? In English, por favor?
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
Oh, silly me going to the actual DOS OIG site. They are only current through the 23rd.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
Wait I did click that thing. It takes me to a useless link.
http://www.nytimes.com/...on=meter-links-click
Is it being blocked by my company server?
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
http://www.nytimes.com/...on=meter-links-click
Is it being blocked by my company server?
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [OneGoodLeg]
[ In reply to ]
Haha, typing at a stoplight.
I said, some of us have done a lot of things in life. Especially if we have jobs like I have. I can't for the life of me understand how somebody could work 9 to 5 in a factory and go home to drink beer and watch the boob tube.
Public accounting in the Washington DC area exposed me to a lot of stuff and a lot of interesting people. Working as an internal auditor with Marriott, taught me a lot about retail, general business, Sarbanes Oxley and the hotel business. Working as an internal auditor with a quasi gov't entity (utility) taught me a lot about utilities, power transmission and water delivery, and state and local politics. Being the US controller for a multinational exposed me to a lot of things as well. Now I work for a large bank in risk management. By its nature I have to have a lot of knowledge things that involve banking.
During that time I also briefly worked for two startups that went nowhere.
Politics was a hobby and I have been involved in democrat, libertarian and now getting my feet wet in Arizona republican politics. But having been a treasurer for libertarian party of florida, I had to become quite knowledgeable on state and federal election laws. Having an accounting background with such knowledge taught me a lot about how political structuring occurs.
Is it really so hard for you to believe one person could hold so much knowledge or done so much? Everybody who has ever met me at any length of time cannot deny I know what I'm talking about. And while I may be a horrible writer (I am actually good at writing brief and concise technical reports), I am quite a charismatic public speaker. Having filled in for friends who were running for office on several occasions. Somebody started a thread about how there cannot be good without bad. Well there cannot be smart without stupid, there cannot be charismatic without repulsive, there cannot be good looking without ugly, and there cannot be experience without inexperienced. If you find it hard to believe, perhaps you fall in the second category of one or more. I definitely am in the first of all those provided.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
I said, some of us have done a lot of things in life. Especially if we have jobs like I have. I can't for the life of me understand how somebody could work 9 to 5 in a factory and go home to drink beer and watch the boob tube.
Public accounting in the Washington DC area exposed me to a lot of stuff and a lot of interesting people. Working as an internal auditor with Marriott, taught me a lot about retail, general business, Sarbanes Oxley and the hotel business. Working as an internal auditor with a quasi gov't entity (utility) taught me a lot about utilities, power transmission and water delivery, and state and local politics. Being the US controller for a multinational exposed me to a lot of things as well. Now I work for a large bank in risk management. By its nature I have to have a lot of knowledge things that involve banking.
During that time I also briefly worked for two startups that went nowhere.
Politics was a hobby and I have been involved in democrat, libertarian and now getting my feet wet in Arizona republican politics. But having been a treasurer for libertarian party of florida, I had to become quite knowledgeable on state and federal election laws. Having an accounting background with such knowledge taught me a lot about how political structuring occurs.
Is it really so hard for you to believe one person could hold so much knowledge or done so much? Everybody who has ever met me at any length of time cannot deny I know what I'm talking about. And while I may be a horrible writer (I am actually good at writing brief and concise technical reports), I am quite a charismatic public speaker. Having filled in for friends who were running for office on several occasions. Somebody started a thread about how there cannot be good without bad. Well there cannot be smart without stupid, there cannot be charismatic without repulsive, there cannot be good looking without ugly, and there cannot be experience without inexperienced. If you find it hard to believe, perhaps you fall in the second category of one or more. I definitely am in the first of all those provided.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [OneGoodLeg]
[ In reply to ]
I don't support trump because I think he is morally better. I support trump over her (haven't decided if I'm voting for him yet) because I know Hillary Clinton is anti-second amendment and more of a Neocon than Trump is. Also a lot of trumps scandals are tabloid fodder. I dont' care if he cheated on his wives just like I didn't care that Clinton did. I don't care that he went bankrupt or sold his brand out to the highest bidders. What I do care about is a public official (I refuse to call them servants), who violates clear rules because they don't fit into her plans. To my knowledge, trump has never broken laws? But lets talk about violating the law. The Clintons have a habit of walking the thin line of law. The form over substance/spirit argument. While they may not have broken the law, they played it so thin as to violate the spirit of the law while not violating the letter of the law.
As I explained, I am an accountant and an auditor. We are taught substance over form and words like independence and integrity in both appearance and fact. I don't even think the Clintons bother appearing proper as long as they didn't violate the law. Bill Clinton again had "sex with that woman." I didn't really care, but what always did bother me was the "depends on what you define as a sexual act". Are you kidding me. And this is more of the same. Huma Abedin's arrangement with the state department than Teneo was sleazy. McAuliffe is a big fat heaping burlup bag of sleaze, Sydney Blumenthal was so sleazy the Obama admin said hell no to giving him clearance. Yet democrats support her. Trump for all his flaws (which there are many) ain't got shit on Hillary Clinton.
Eventually people got to say its enough. It is bad enough the bush's and Clintons thought they were entitled to multi administration with different family members, but the Clintons took it to a new low. Bill Clinton was at a place where his legacy was improving. But now... They should have left well enough alone.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
As I explained, I am an accountant and an auditor. We are taught substance over form and words like independence and integrity in both appearance and fact. I don't even think the Clintons bother appearing proper as long as they didn't violate the law. Bill Clinton again had "sex with that woman." I didn't really care, but what always did bother me was the "depends on what you define as a sexual act". Are you kidding me. And this is more of the same. Huma Abedin's arrangement with the state department than Teneo was sleazy. McAuliffe is a big fat heaping burlup bag of sleaze, Sydney Blumenthal was so sleazy the Obama admin said hell no to giving him clearance. Yet democrats support her. Trump for all his flaws (which there are many) ain't got shit on Hillary Clinton.
Eventually people got to say its enough. It is bad enough the bush's and Clintons thought they were entitled to multi administration with different family members, but the Clintons took it to a new low. Bill Clinton was at a place where his legacy was improving. But now... They should have left well enough alone.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
TheForge wrote:
Wait I did click that thing. It takes me to a useless link. http://www.nytimes.com/...on=meter-links-click
Is it being blocked by my company server?
Must be. The document pops up fine for me, right from the link you just posted.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
I'll check it when I get home.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [spot]
[ In reply to ]
spot wrote:
At the end of the day, though, if she skates, this will yet be another nail in the coffin for anyone who thinks that the rule of law applies to everyone equally in this country.Well it never has. From the days of the Founding Fathers on.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
TheForge wrote:
Haha, typing at a stoplight. I said, some of us have done a lot of things in life. Especially if we have jobs like I have. I can't for the life of me understand how somebody could work 9 to 5 in a factory and go home to drink beer and watch the boob tube.
Public accounting in the Washington DC area exposed me to a lot of stuff and a lot of interesting people. Working as an internal auditor with Marriott, taught me a lot about retail, general business, Sarbanes Oxley and the hotel business. Working as an internal auditor with a quasi gov't entity (utility) taught me a lot about utilities, power transmission and water delivery, and state and local politics. Being the US controller for a multinational exposed me to a lot of things as well. Now I work for a large bank in risk management. By its nature I have to have a lot of knowledge things that involve banking.
During that time I also briefly worked for two startups that went nowhere.
Politics was a hobby and I have been involved in democrat, libertarian and now getting my feet wet in Arizona republican politics. But having been a treasurer for libertarian party of florida, I had to become quite knowledgeable on state and federal election laws. Having an accounting background with such knowledge taught me a lot about how political structuring occurs.
Is it really so hard for you to believe one person could hold so much knowledge or done so much? Everybody who has ever met me at any length of time cannot deny I know what I'm talking about. And while I may be a horrible writer (I am actually good at writing brief and concise technical reports), I am quite a charismatic public speaker. Having filled in for friends who were running for office on several occasions. Somebody started a thread about how there cannot be good without bad. Well there cannot be smart without stupid, there cannot be charismatic without repulsive, there cannot be good looking without ugly, and there cannot be experience without inexperienced. If you find it hard to believe, perhaps you fall in the second category of one or more. I definitely am in the first of all those provided.
"Or when you switch parties. Those are the lowest of the low." - TheForge
So I'm guessing you only mean politicians when you talk of switching parties. =)
_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheRef65]
[ In reply to ]
I ment elected officials. And to go even further, only elected officials. Not people who have run and never won.
People like Charlie Crist and Arlen Specter. People I actually thought were decent people at one time.
Lieberman had class by running as an independent when he lost his primary.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
People like Charlie Crist and Arlen Specter. People I actually thought were decent people at one time.
Lieberman had class by running as an independent when he lost his primary.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
TheForge wrote:
The more I read, the more pissed off I get. http://www.politico.com/...-state-report-223574
From that article:
"The former secretary of state declined the OIG's request for an interview, while Abedin did not respond, according to the report."
I find it incredible that Abedin was able to "not respond" to the OIG's request for an interview. At least the FBI have interviewed her successfully. That said, from what has come out so far I would be surprised to see criminal charges filed, but hopefully the spotlight on this will at least let the electorate have a better idea what kind of person Clinton is.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
Dude, I have no idea what jobs you have or haven't had, but I'll give you an example of you pulling stuff out of your ass and presenting yourself as an expert based on your vast life experiences. In the thread about Budweiser changing their beer name to America, you posted this:
"Light crisp watered down brew is where its at. When I drank, if I wanted something classy or cool, I would drink a fine scotch or a martini. If I wanted to get loaded or wash down bar food, it would be beer. American beer. Sure, if I went to a local brew pub, I would sample the craft beers, but the whole craft beer movement is overrated.
The craft brew fad with people posting FB pictures of their latest conquest will pass. American macrobrews will always be here. Some may go like the pictures below, but Budweiser is America and will always be. The pictures below perfectly describe American macrobrew and its purpose."
Now, I suppose you consider yourself an expert on beer because you had a drinking problem at some point in your life and drank shitloads of crappy beer to get drunk(congrats on the sobriety, BTW), but your suggestion that craft beer was a passing fad that will pass is nonsense. Consider when these craft breweries were started:
Sam Adams 1984
Sierra Nevada 1979
Stoudt's 1987
All still going strong. I could name others, but I think you get the point. Do you realize that there are lots and lots of people out there who drink craft beer because they like the way it tastes, have been doing so for a long time, and will continue to do so? They (we) don't drink it to be cool or because it's a fad. I've been drinking this type of beer since the late 1990s, so I think I'm a little past the passing fad stage.
Yes, Budweiser will always be there. No doubt about that. There is no shortage of people who like Budweiser, for whatever reason. There is no accounting for taste, or lack thereof.
Anyway, carry on.
"Honestly, triathlon is a pussified version of duathlon on that final run."- Desert Dude
"Light crisp watered down brew is where its at. When I drank, if I wanted something classy or cool, I would drink a fine scotch or a martini. If I wanted to get loaded or wash down bar food, it would be beer. American beer. Sure, if I went to a local brew pub, I would sample the craft beers, but the whole craft beer movement is overrated.
The craft brew fad with people posting FB pictures of their latest conquest will pass. American macrobrews will always be here. Some may go like the pictures below, but Budweiser is America and will always be. The pictures below perfectly describe American macrobrew and its purpose."
Now, I suppose you consider yourself an expert on beer because you had a drinking problem at some point in your life and drank shitloads of crappy beer to get drunk(congrats on the sobriety, BTW), but your suggestion that craft beer was a passing fad that will pass is nonsense. Consider when these craft breweries were started:
Sam Adams 1984
Sierra Nevada 1979
Stoudt's 1987
All still going strong. I could name others, but I think you get the point. Do you realize that there are lots and lots of people out there who drink craft beer because they like the way it tastes, have been doing so for a long time, and will continue to do so? They (we) don't drink it to be cool or because it's a fad. I've been drinking this type of beer since the late 1990s, so I think I'm a little past the passing fad stage.
Yes, Budweiser will always be there. No doubt about that. There is no shortage of people who like Budweiser, for whatever reason. There is no accounting for taste, or lack thereof.
Anyway, carry on.
"Honestly, triathlon is a pussified version of duathlon on that final run."- Desert Dude
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [teekona]
[ In reply to ]
teekona wrote:
Dude, I have no idea what jobs you have or haven't had, but I'll give you an example of you pulling stuff out of your ass and presenting yourself as an expert based on your vast life experiences. In the thread about Budweiser changing their beer name to America, you posted this: "Light crisp watered down brew is where its at. When I drank, if I wanted something classy or cool, I would drink a fine scotch or a martini. If I wanted to get loaded or wash down bar food, it would be beer. American beer. Sure, if I went to a local brew pub, I would sample the craft beers, but the whole craft beer movement is overrated.
The craft brew fad with people posting FB pictures of their latest conquest will pass. American macrobrews will always be here. Some may go like the pictures below, but Budweiser is America and will always be. The pictures below perfectly describe American macrobrew and its purpose."
Now, I suppose you consider yourself an expert on beer because you had a drinking problem at some point in your life and drank shitloads of crappy beer to get drunk(congrats on the sobriety, BTW), but your suggestion that craft beer was a passing fad that will pass is nonsense. Consider when these craft breweries were started:
Sam Adams 1984
Sierra Nevada 1979
Stoudt's 1987
All still going strong. I could name others, but I think you get the point. Do you realize that there are lots and lots of people out there who drink craft beer because they like the way it tastes, have been doing so for a long time, and will continue to do so? They (we) don't drink it to be cool or because it's a fad. I've been drinking this type of beer since the late 1990s, so I think I'm a little past the passing fad stage.
Yes, Budweiser will always be there. No doubt about that. There is no shortage of people who like Budweiser, for whatever reason. There is no accounting for taste, or lack thereof.
Anyway, carry on.
Are you new here?
Theforge is just one of the experts we have on the LR. And, Boston Brewing Company makes Sam Adams. I'm the expert, now. :-)
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [Old Hickory]
[ In reply to ]
Damnit, there I go exposing myself as a pseudo expert! Right you are about Boston Beer Co. At least I didn't called Sierra Nevada "Pale Ale". :-)
"Honestly, triathlon is a pussified version of duathlon on that final run."- Desert Dude
"Honestly, triathlon is a pussified version of duathlon on that final run."- Desert Dude
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [Kay Serrar]
[ In reply to ]
Kay Serrar wrote:
I find it incredible that Abedin was able to "not respond" to the OIG's request for an interview.
The OIG can't require private citizens to speak, is my understanding. I think that includes former Fed. employees. Which includes both Clinton and Abedin. Though Huma was only a quasi Fed. employee, which may have been by design!
They do have the power to make you look bad if you don't, however.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [teekona]
[ In reply to ]
Quote:
There is no accounting for taste, or lack thereof.That is generally true; however, I am a personal exception to the rule. Thus, I can say that half the beer on the shelves these days sucks.
________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [H-]
[ In reply to ]
H- wrote:
Quote:
There is no accounting for taste, or lack thereof.That is generally true; however, I am a personal exception to the rule. Thus, I can say that half the beer on the shelves these days sucks.
Yep, and it is usually displayed like this:
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [teekona]
[ In reply to ]
I was being funny with that. How was that not obvious.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [bluemonkeytri]
[ In reply to ]
I have to agree that Bud light sucks. And it is ridiculously overpriced these days (foreign owners seeing how much they can extract from American's bad taste).
________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
Obvious to you maybe. What that you wrote would lead anyone to believe you were joking? We have all heard the "craft beers suck and Budweiser is the King" routine before.
"Honestly, triathlon is a pussified version of duathlon on that final run."- Desert Dude
"Honestly, triathlon is a pussified version of duathlon on that final run."- Desert Dude
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
Quote:
I find it nearly impossible to believe that the people who should have known, didn't know.For more on this point see this WaPo editorial.
Also WSJ editorial notes that report reveals that she was twice asked to set up segregated systems.
________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [teekona]
[ In reply to ]
My humor meter can be off.
Look, to me beer was always a drink of the masses. If I'm going to fork
Dough, it will be for wine or liquor. I do feel the craft beer fad is just that, a fad driven by millennials.
Not a day goes by where millennial family membersof mine post pictures of different craft brews they're trying.
When I drank I liked craft beers I just didn't like them much more than bud.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Look, to me beer was always a drink of the masses. If I'm going to fork
Dough, it will be for wine or liquor. I do feel the craft beer fad is just that, a fad driven by millennials.
Not a day goes by where millennial family membersof mine post pictures of different craft brews they're trying.
When I drank I liked craft beers I just didn't like them much more than bud.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheForge]
[ In reply to ]
TheForge wrote:
I ment elected officials. And to go even further, only elected officials. Not people who have run and never won. People like Charlie Crist and Arlen Specter. People I actually thought were decent people at one time.
Lieberman had class by running as an independent when he lost his primary.
I knew what you meant, I was just giving you shit. I agree with you on this by the way. So does this mean I'm not a Hillary supporter now? ;)
_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
Re: State Department IG report on Clinton's email server [TheRef65]
[ In reply to ]
I just get a little sensitive when I see people downplay or attempt to politicize an audit or oig report.
There is a lot of political consideration that goes into those. And any person hoping to be president should not be attacking. The integrity of an oig. Remember, the oig for any given dept or bureau is appointed by the president. So this guy was appointed by Obama.
If you cannot cooperate with an oig investigation, how can you be expected to run such departments.
Let me define political consideration. Whenever we wrote reports, you have to consider the long term impact on yourself and you office with such reports. An auditor is only as credible as his/her last report. As an auditor in a politically charged quasi gov't entity, the stakes are only higher. These guys are career auditors. Are they dedicated to finding problems and motivated to do so? You bet, but no more than any law enforcement officer wanting to solve a high profile case. I bet a lot of other finding, sleazy or trivial, didn't make it into the report as to avoid the perception of a pile on or political which hunt. I've been there and done that.
If this stuff made it in, a lot of people combed it over, it is following a whole host of standardized audit standards. Prior to this, it was expected that Hillary broke the rules and would wiggle through a loophole. No matter how absurd or thin. But this report is clear. She broke the rules despite being told and wanted about it. This by very definition should disqualify her. Anybody defending this I can only assume is afraid of a trump presidency they cannot be objective on this.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
There is a lot of political consideration that goes into those. And any person hoping to be president should not be attacking. The integrity of an oig. Remember, the oig for any given dept or bureau is appointed by the president. So this guy was appointed by Obama.
If you cannot cooperate with an oig investigation, how can you be expected to run such departments.
Let me define political consideration. Whenever we wrote reports, you have to consider the long term impact on yourself and you office with such reports. An auditor is only as credible as his/her last report. As an auditor in a politically charged quasi gov't entity, the stakes are only higher. These guys are career auditors. Are they dedicated to finding problems and motivated to do so? You bet, but no more than any law enforcement officer wanting to solve a high profile case. I bet a lot of other finding, sleazy or trivial, didn't make it into the report as to avoid the perception of a pile on or political which hunt. I've been there and done that.
If this stuff made it in, a lot of people combed it over, it is following a whole host of standardized audit standards. Prior to this, it was expected that Hillary broke the rules and would wiggle through a loophole. No matter how absurd or thin. But this report is clear. She broke the rules despite being told and wanted about it. This by very definition should disqualify her. Anybody defending this I can only assume is afraid of a trump presidency they cannot be objective on this.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
I'm also now wondering what the FBI is gojng to turn up. We already know the Clinton team attorneys limited the scope of questioning, but they have law enforcement authority auditors do not have. I would think any FBI investigation would at least be comparable.
I don't see how nobody goes to jail if being held to a normal person standard. Faith in the system demands at least somebody important goes to prison.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
I don't see how nobody goes to jail if being held to a normal person standard. Faith in the system demands at least somebody important goes to prison.
"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden