Good luck! Sub 50 100 SCY at 40 is impressive.

Would sub 2:50 marathon and sub 50 second 100 scy be mutually exclusive energy systems. For the second you need to maximize your 20 second fast twitch access for the former, it is all aerobic.

I wonder if Jan Frodeno or Tim O'Donnell can do it. They are over 40 and for sure have the 2:50 marathon easily, but do they have the equivalent time in the pool. 50 scy is 55 scm which is 57 lcm.

My guess for you, is to go gain the time with explosive wall pushoffs and under water dolphin that are fast (and at least the muscle usage crossed over to marathon) versus pulling harder because pulling harders means more upper body mass that hurts your marathon.

Dev

Quite a goal! What were you doing at your swim peak? My son is a D3 swimmer and I think he’d be hard pressed to break 50 from a push generally.

I assume you are also training for tri? What distance? As a guy who will certainly never break 50 and probably never 2:50, my gut says you need big volume on the run and true sprint work in the pool, along with technique focus to really nail those 3 turns.

But I don’t actually know anything.

Excited to follow this! How close are you on the marathon - fastest recent half or full time?

I wonder if Monty could have done this in his prime.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

I believe Monty's open marathon was low 2:30's. He would also lead, or be with the top swimmers in Kona every year. But that was under 40. Not sure Monty's 100 free all out.

I just looked at the 100 free world records and 57 second LCM gets one into the range of the world record in 55-59 and 60-64. 57 on LCM is roughly 50 seconds scy!!!

Precisely my point that they don't have to be mutually exclusive. But here is where the bike training has helped me over the years to improve my underwaters. If you see that first 100 recorded, the first 50 is not quite "explosive" since I almost even split it but I can't throw too much high end underwater quick because I will be averaging closer to 60+ run miles at my peak running and rather have fresher legs for the runs.

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Thank you!

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I believe Monty's open marathon was low 2:30's. He would also lead, or be with the top swimmers in Kona every year. But that was under 40. Not sure Monty's 100 free all out. //

Well the running part would have been really easy, as it would be for any pro that kept training until 40. I ran 2;36 at 39 with only a 6 week running focus, running around 40 miles a week. Certainly the top pros still racing at 40 would run just around sub 2;30/2;25, guys like Jan, Crowie, and Cameron Brown.


The hard thing here would be that sub 50 100 SCY. I would definitely not be able to do it, I barley did it in my youth. This really hinges on what speed were you in college or other competitive swimming days. At 40 you can get close to your old time while run training too, so if you were 47 or better, may have a chance. Not too many in that boat, most the triathletes were distance swimmers. Rick Wells could have done it for sure, he swam 51 for LCM in his day.


But that is the thing, you really have to fall back on old speed you already achieved, you cannot train it at 40 to just magically be there. So how fast was the OP in his day, that will tell you if he can possible do this or not. Sub 50 is miles away from a 52+, be like if he were trying to break 2;40 in the marathon.


Some elite pros could do it, running would have to be sub 2;30 to match that sub 50 though. Thinking back to others at 40, maybe Andy Potts?

Do you realize you are providing "swimming advice" to a former NCAA D1 swimmer? All due respect, but based on your swimming ability and knowledge, you are way out of your league giving him any advice. He knows exactly what needs to be done to get there.

 
I swam at Villanova (01-05) and was a 4:36/1:43 (500/200 free) at my "peak" and never really focused on the 100free. My fastest 100 on record was actually as a "master" in 2012 when I was 28 and went 47.98 from a dive.

I approach my training under a triathlon umbrella (~12hrs/week) and I am signed up for Ironman Lake Placid this summer. I definitely prioritize the easy run volume above all (you can follow my Strava here https://www.strava.com/athletes/42469911) but I actually don't do quite as much "true sprint" because I feel my "body type" gives me enough juice for the fast stuff. I've incorporated more anti-paddles and banded pull swims to improve my catch and body position. I definitely need to do more 50s around mid 24 to get that first 50 more explosive.

I went 2:53 at Boston (my first one!) last year and then 2:51 at Richmond marathon last November. Both races I negative split and feel like I get better at the distance every year. I did get hurt (hip) 2 weeks prior to Richmond and had to take a month or so off from running but I'm back to 40mpw.

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So basically a 48 flat from a dive 12 years ago, probably not much chance from a push. Why not do a dive by the way?

You were a good college swimmer, but seems you were more a distance guy. And I think 24.5 is not going to be enough going out either, you will need a sub 24 at the very least. But hey, good on you for setting a super hard goal, stretches out your abilities to the limit

My fastest 100 free (47.98) came 7 years after my last college meet. I never truly trained for the 100 as a youngster more of a 500yds (4:36 PR) guy. But I definitely feel that bike training over the years has helped my underwater kick and explosiveness.

It will be a fun journey to see how much speed in the water vs making sure I don't neglect the run volume and do the proper preparation still for Boston and nail on that day.

The sub :50 is definitely on purpose to make this a true challenge!

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love the ST heat! Sub :50 precisely because it HAS to be a challenge and yes I definitely need to be low 24 (which I know I can do). This 52+ was just to baseline it and "fun" all out at the end of practice.

From a dive a I think would be a bit easier. I do have a solid start ;) but again sub :50 from a push makes it more of a challenge.

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Wishing you lots of luck, keep us in the loop with any big workouts you do.

And I just recalled an age grouper that posts in our monthly fishes thread that could do this at 40. Optimal Adrain is his handle, pretty sure he has broken 50(did 5;01 for 500 at masters nats a couple years ago) and he is a swim/run specialist now. Perhaps he can chime in on what it takes as and AG'er at that age for workouts and bench marks.

I actually think I'm a better swimmer now than in college! My technique is way better, my overall health is better, balance and outlook in life a huge 180. So, not all PRs in college mean the same thing. Yes, you are young and strong but you never know what is going on behind the veil of "student-athlete"

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Why do you have to go out of your way to pick a fight with me constantly and end with a put down. I never spoke with you on this topic. Seems like the guy who started this thread roughly agrees with me on a potential strategy.

The reality is that upper body mass hurts the sub 2:50 marathon so was just pointing out the part of the 100 free where he needs zero upper body benefit. I was not giving advice on swimming as there are 1000 things to do to get faster in pool. Just pointing out the one place in the swim where if he can maximize that, it won't hurt the marathon either.

Dev

Thank you! and thanks for the input. You definitely have a better sense and understanding of the goal here. It is just a true FUN challenge. I've always been super private about my little projects (see another past project Skyline Double here https://www.strava.com/activities/3951957768) but more friends are encouraging me to share these adventures specially for 40+ folks.

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It's all good! I think we definitely speak the same swim language. Dev is making logical and sensical comments.

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2022 Masters Nats I went 48.42 from a dive: https://www.usms.org/...s/swim.php?s=4289281 . I don't think it would take much for me to improve on that a little bit and get under 50 from a push, but would definitely take a taper and shave.

In terms of what I do for max efforts in practice as a gauge for being able to hit that time:
100's all out (with lots of recovery) ~54
50's with lots of rest at 26 or faster.

To be able to swim a good 100, I think you focus on these things:

• 25's at max effort/turnover for speed.
• 100's all out, like 4-10 reps, with as much rest as you need
• 100 or 200 repeats above threshold effort at 10-30s rest per 100.

The 100 is a 'sprint' but it's really more like the 200 than the 50: going out as hard as you can without hitting 'the wall' and having that metaphorical piano drop on your back. For me that means I pace a 100 like 98% effort on the first 50 and 100% on the second.

I've never done a marathon, though. Last time I did a half marathon was like a decade ago; I was 1:24 on a hilly course around the Circuit of the Americas F1 track. I think i'm faster now. From some random internet calculator for running race equivalents, based on fast I know I can run a 10k I would be just under that 2:50 mark (but I probably don't do enough mileage to be prepared for a marathon).

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Agree with your training tips. You are an ideal candidate for this challenge. Join me!

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My college PRs are similar to yours- a bit faster at distance, apparently a lot slower at sprints.

Like you, I don't have an official 100 time.
(I was way way way to slow to ever be allowed to swim that in college).

I also tried to break 2:50 in the marathon a couple of times in my early 40s. That was a reasonable goal. But every time I tried, something came up.
(Usually, I decided mid race that I should shoot for 2:46, or something. And instead I wound up running 2:54).
Don't do that!!!

I think that sprint swimming and distance running should go great together.

I think sprint running and distance swimming might also go well together.

I don't think that fast distance running and fast distance swimming go together.
(This is a bit counter intuitive).

My focus has been primarily been on triathlon.

I haven't really put too much thought or effort into swimming. It's just not that important for tri.

Which relates to my own postes.

It might be cool to do some fast swimming!!

(For me that won't be sprints, at least relative to others).

Good luck.
Your efforts should be entertaining, inspirational and potentially educational.

What are your thoughts on the anti paddle compared to swimming with a closed fist? What do you like the anti paddle for?

Read the replies and wish you good luck with this.

Swim low hanging fruit - flip turn speed ? Regular jammer or a tech suit?

Firstly, I think what you are trying is super cool. It is literally at the opposite end of the spectrum, Maybe an equivalent challenge would be to maximize one's 400 running sprint and at the same time 10km swim time. Different horses for different courses. Having both ends of the muscle fiber blessing co existing in the same person tends to be rare!


I think inside running only Mo Farrah has a 48 second 400m and a 2:05 marathon....literally it is what made Mo devastating in the 500m and 10000m, because he could hold the steady pace and access things like a 52 second final lap in the 5000m).


Back to swimming, here is Rio 2016 4x100 underwaters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOjloDn8spI


From what I see here, Phelps breaths 43 times in 47 seconds including his dive time in the air under water time (so always breathing every second hand entry). He had a massive wall and comes out in lead (you can see his run into the wall starting around 1:10 all the way into and out of the single wall.


scy means more gains from the walls, but way more time underwater. I would imagine with the wall push off, you are going to spend 40m out of 91.5m underwater not breathing. At the end of the day a 50 second event in any sport has a large aerobic component too so your marathon training also helps your oxygen carrying ability. I think Phelps was the master of maximizing air intake and at 40 you would need O2 more than at 20.


Maybe at 40, 57 LCM is easier than 50scy, because you may have more oxygen access in LCM format, but it's not a nice round number

Great questions! I was hoping someone would be more curious about all the things you ask.

1. I am a huge fan of the anti-paddle. I use Strokemax’s developed by former Hungarian Olympian Norbert Agh. The fist is definitely your easy go to but the anti- paddle truly forces you to find your optimal “catch” and in my case it forces me to also engage even more the lats and armpit area.
I remember seeing this SwimSwam video where Dressel, Liendo and the sprint group use them too.
I know from a former athlete that trained in this group that they actually 3D print them .

2. I think the kick and more aggressive walls are my lowest hanging fruit. If you see the 52+ video I really don’t “attack” the wall and feels more like a slow 200 free wall. I also failed bad to kick more (disclaimer: I cross-leg kick so it has always been a bit of a challenge to sustain a nicer sprinter kick). I think that this is just not really focusing on the swim since I swim mostly now for triathlons and don’t even do kick sets. I do have a pair of Arena powerfin pro that I plan to use more and push some fast 25s for underwater kick and 50s as well. Again, I was never a sprinter in my younger days but definitely think I got some decent fast twitch fibers in my favor.

3. The suit! I can’t believe no one asked before but yes definitely gunning for a shaved, taper, and fully tech suited! Need all the help I can get from a push.

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I think it can be very tempting to make comparisons and extrapolate. Mind you I am Lochte’s age and a year older than Phelps, so by the time I made it to my freshmen year of college, my generation was seeing in the making the next underwater evolution.

As you probably know, underwater are very individual (I just recorded an interview with Jesse Vassallo and we covered a lot about that and his involvement in pioneering). My underwaters are ok but I can definitely might be able to get back another half second.

Funny you mention the LCM comparison because the whole project idea originated from pushing a 1:00 when I was swimming with a master’s friend back in Puerto Rico when I visited last month. I had just finished a monster set (70x100s with the youngsters and was holding 1:10-1:12s leaving around 1:30). my friend thought I could def push closer to :58 with a tech suit. I don’t have a LCM right now to see if I could do that hence the sub :50 to make it more interesting.

I find it interesting that it feels here that the sub 2:50 is the “easy” one, but still need to put the run miles and stay healthy !

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I find it interesting that it feels here that the sub 2:50 is the “easy” one, but still need to put the run miles and stay healthy !//

Well that is because you only have to drop a little over a minute in a 170 minute race. In the swimming you have to drop 3 seconds in a 50 second race. Just the math alone tells you what is harder, not taking into account all the other variables. And why again are you not going from a dive?? May as well give yourself every possible advantage, there is one of the seconds you need right there, and a legit one at that... (-;

You did a 52.7 at the end of a work out no text Sue not shaved, not tapered

You definitely have a sub 50 with all those things added in without a doubt in my opinion

Also from all time human physiology angle 57 LCM 100free (equivalent for 50 scy) is the M60-64 all time record. The M60-64 all time marathon record is 2:30. That's why the sub 2:50 at age 40 is easier, because it is far from what humans who are 20 years old can do. But for him he must be more built like a swimmer than a marathoner, making that harder for him

A quick decision tree for pushing vs off the block:
1. At my local pool, they don’t let folks jump off the block and don’t want to over complicate the logistics.
2. Precisely because it is a “challenge” of a project. If I wanted “easier” I could definitely be closer off the block.
3. Strategy wise it truly forces me to work on the weaknesses to dip as close I can to sub 50. Kick- underwaters- the first 50
4. Don’t worry I can definitely do a 100 off the block if I “fail” by my arbitrary deadline (April 30) but for now the FUN is in the challenge off the push.

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While I was over at the pool I was thinking about your challenge and Peter Reid's old saying "train heavy, race light". I thought, "this guy should get the swim done 12-16 weeks before his marathon and then lose 1.5 lbs every 2 weeks and benefit from additional upper body mass for the swim and then shed some of that during the next 3-4 month block, but now I see it is Boston and you want to do it around the same time.

Or can you do Boston as light as possible and then do some appropriate gym time to gain the upper body mass for a full out 100 free and just do that in the fall?

Whew good luck! Personally, sub 50 seems WAY harder, but that's coming from an adult onset swimmer. Seems like you're on track for both. Very cool.

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Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4

How will the 100 be timed?

For a project this ambitious I would want a mat.

I'm not a fan of tinkering with the body. I'm 5'10/175lbs and definitely built like a middle distance freestyler and I've been lucky to pretty much stay around the same weight since my senior year of HS. I think I maybe went down to 165lbs when I did IM Mt Tremblant in 2019 (9:43) but don't feel as strong in the mid 160s.

The marathon has to be Boston because...it is Boston (!) and add to the "pressure" to do it that day. My 40th bday is March 30th and I also don't want to be chasing the times all year long. So the window for doing both is the full month of April. Boston is April 15 so that gives me 2 weeks to recover from the marathon. I am registered for IM Lake Placid in July and need to make a hard pivot towards that as well.

FWIW: I did Richmond marathon last November (2:51) and a week later went a 2:02.65 SCM free (solid splits) at my local masters meet. The legs were pretty trashed but I definitely think I could've dipped under 2mins with an extra week. https://www.usms.org/...s/swim.php?s=4609317

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I can't even jump off the block at my local pool not sure timing mat is an option here. But thanks for thinking this is an "ambitious" project, which it is for me but definitely not going for any Guinness record book or anything. So, for now, plenty of video footage to document. I do think that the official "time" should start when my feet leave the wall - relay type of timing. Let me know what you think!

Loving the exchanges and ST heat!

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I think that is what I am getting at. If you got to 165 at IM Tremblant, then you already went from 175 down to 165 so my question is if you just naturally go that way down to 165 in a big land sport endurance build but if you're not in an endurance build end up at your swimming weight. So my thought was do the swim part time elapsed from the marthon....but now I see IMLP complicates it

What if you just do the swim thing in the fall or are you aiming for Kona at IMLP?

When I was your age did a 2:59 at Boston, but that really got in the way of prep for LP and genernally had bad days at LP when I did the spring marathon (I did IMLP 11 times in 14 years). I just found that spring marathons and IMLP never mixed well but maybe it is hard to say no to Boston.

Boston always left me trashed for 3 weeks to do proper IM training. Too much downhill in the first 13 miles, putting latent soreness into the legs, that you have to carry up heart break, then you have all the downhill before the final 3 miles past Fenway park and not sure if they have the old "Citgo 1 mile to go board" but you can see that from literally 3miles after heart break descent and it is almost always a headwind if you just get an average temp day (cold day with North West wind you can get a tailwind day, but that was always rare). All this to say, from a regular marathon I could get back to normal swim and bike training in a week and running in 10 days, but after Boston everything was ripped apart for 3weeks impairing the IMLP training plan. I think I could generally run harder in Boston because in many local marathons if you run in 2:45 to 3 hrs range it is pretty quite in terms of runners around you, but in Boston there are 100's of the same ability all around all the time, so you can push harder.

Anyway, I wish you well. Maybe do the swim 2 weeks before Boston so you're not trying to do the swim with niggles carried from Boston which would then hurt your IMLP even more.

Hey, I thought about your challenge a bit more, but I THINK you are leaving out a major detail that you added later.

You mentioned switch focus to IMLP, but I THINK what you really meant was switch focus to Kona Qual and race Kona (I looked at your website link and it seems you went in 2022, so my feeling is you want back).

This challenge and the timing of your birthday and Boston are getting in the way of KQ.

OK you can't move the date of Boston, but you can move the date of your swim. Why don't you come back from Kona and then put in 2.5 months to build towards the swim before Dec 31....or do it before your 41st birthday

Thanks - I’ve not really heard people talk about the anti paddle. I have seen an article where mark devay who is a front of pack itu racer and won a lot of aqua thon races uses it a lot on his sets. He’s Hungarian too

But I’m finding fist swimming really teaches stuff about the catch so I am sure the anti paddle will too. Harder to get in Australia by the looks but not impossible. I’ll keep an eye out for one

Watched your 52 swim. Man your stroke is nice. Definitely a distance stroke. It barley looks like your kick broke the surface but you started to find a good rhythm on that 3rd 50. I can sprint with a six beat kick but my natural threshold preference is a bit of a four beat rhythm. I don’t think your turn speed looks that bad to be honest - the trouble is that we are used to seeing the elites do it on YouTube and their flip turn speed and walls are incredibly fast. Your project sub title could be - learning how to six beat kick 🤣🤣

I did do Kona in 2022 but I am NOT interested in KQ at Placid as I don't have any urges to go back ;) Of course I will do my best to podium in the AG but my life is pretty full right now and I can only train ~12hrs/wk and not sure I'll even exceed ~16hrs/wk at peak Placid training. If you saw my website and IG, you might've noticed that I coach and have a few athletes racing Placid and my main my focus will be on them first. I will be lucky to have the swim and a solid run block behind my legs. I am currently averaging 4-5hrs/wk on the bike but of course that will need to go up as well after Boston.

Another FWIW: Last year I did a local hilly half ironman (Kinectic Half 4:27) a month after Boston and then Eagleman bike leg relay 3 weeks after and pushed a 2:09 bike split https://www.strava.com/activities/9245512193 so I am able to recover somewhat decent. Obviously Ironman distance is a whole different game.

I've definitely considered the various factors you mentioned before weight, using the whole year instead, recovery, pushing different dates but again I think that what makes this uniquely different is the range of anaerobic capacity to run endurance at 40 and I am embracing the "pressure" of having to get it done within a limited time window. This has to remain a fun challenge and I am not afraid of failing. What I like the most is that I haven't achieved neither time goal and they are "realistic" enough to keep me motivated.

I appreciate your enthusiasm and hope you continue to follow along.

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hilarious! Trust me that I desperately want that 6 beat kick too!

and yes, definitely use the fists. I also love using a tennis ball and playing with how many fingers you open up as you pull.

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this is a great challenge. look forward to seeing how you go, how you prepare etc etc. good luck!

personally a sub 3:00 marathon seems almost other worldly. if at all possible for me i'm guessing it would be a big multi-year effort. sub 2:50 on the other hand ....

aside from once or twice i've never swum 25y pool, but from others comments above, with the different ratios of turns / underwater etc etc this corresponds to a 1:00 100m lcm, or a little below? that has always felt doable to me, with a period of really strong, sole focus (i think order months maybe?).

subscribed!

so no needed bro.

shhhhh

daved

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I love every bit of this.
Good Luck!

Two very tough challenges.

Im turning 50 this year and I am always game for some ludicrous challenge but running a marathon is NOT going to be part of it.

Plus I dont think I could do either.

We have similar times from college, and I did get my 50 down (a couple years ago) from a push to be mid. 24s. I was able to achieve this maybe 2 or 3 times. Its tough. Lots of short sprints in your future. 10-15meter work, and turn work esp doing yards...
Will be following!
Great Luck! have fun.

daved

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We can agree to disagree.

Just a random example: the person I responded to once advised someone training for their first IM that they had to build their run 100 km/week to do a 14 hour IM, I called it out as unreasonable, this one is on the other side of the spectrum but also seems unreasonable.

The value of this forum relies on all of us having a bit of responsibility and ownership to our input. If we don't, it won't be long before this becomes a letsrun type of forum.

You have an entire thread to engage with constructive discussion with the original poster on a very interesting challenge (both at his personal level and the physiology extremes), but you're spending text time worrying about what others are posting rather than engaging with him on your own ideas? What's the point of a forum if different points of view can't be discussed ?


It is a forum for a reason. A forum is where discussions happen. We don't need to agree with all content posted by everyone. Bullying people off of here by talking down, picking fights when they don't engage with you on a topic, going out of their way to coerce is not cool.

If you are in a bar, there will lots of discussions all over the bar. We can engage in whichever ones we want as long as we are not hurtful to others. If one does not like the discussion in one corner of the bar, just avoid the discussion. If one does not like the people in one corner of the bar, just avoid them. No need to go out of the way to pick on them.

I think you may be suggesting that I suggested to someone to run 100km to get ready for a 14 hrs Ironman (as I am the person you replied to above). Can you point to that post please? I've just suggested to people that if they plan to run a 4 hrs marathon in an IM or even an open one, probably a good idea to average 4 hrs per week in advance if one is going to cram it all in during a single day. The faster one wants to run on Ironman day, the more hours per week of running they will generally need. We can debate this basic common sense if you want.

But regardless it's not up to anyone to tell someone else what ideas someone can suggest on here. If everyone gets bullied off posting anything because a few decide to go on the attack on anything they don't like eventually Ryan and Eric have no traffic and you end up with a few people talking to themselves with zero additional participants. Then people show up on ST to see what's new and literally there is nothing to read as there ends up being no content generation (you don't need to love all the content, just skip it).

I think if you get a KQ you should take it. You don't know when you will get cancer, get hit by a bus, or have your health degrade (notably ex IMLP winner Steve Larsen died from a heart attack after running intervals around your age). If you can be good enough to get to Kona while prioritizing coaching your crew, then go for it. Physical abiliities won't last forever....make hay while you can!

And maybe some of your crew qualify and they want you there in Kona anyway. Also with that swim capability are you in the range that you can win the age group swim at Kona? You can warm up by winning the 3800m swim meet at Placid with a sub 50 100yard wetsuit assisted close in case you have to out sprint some other former fishie ringer!!!

come on bro, he's a swimmer. Push off on the top and touch before it changes to :50.

This is pretty impressive and it is good to have goals like this.

I actually attempted something similar the year I turned 40: Sub 3:00 and 26.XX In the 50M free (short course M) from a block. I made the swim did not make the run. My own personal experience has been that lots of miles has totally tanked my explosiveness the last 8 years (turning 48 in May). I only say this because if I could go back and change something about the last 10 years, I would have worked in more strength training in exchange for the few extra miles I put in. That's not advice, by the way, just telling my own experience.

Anyhow 26.6 coming home is really solid. A fast skin and a few weeks of speed work and you've got the swim knocked out. Again in the "not advice just telling my own experience": I did a drop taper not a gradual taper. I worked my speed for a few weeks, did my last hard effort on a Tuesday, didn't swim Wednesday, swam easy Thursday and did it on a Friday.

Sorry Dev but strongly disagree here. I have other plans in the future besides Kona and my physical abilities are certainly not defined by performances in Kona. The best thing that triathlon gives me is an opportunity to do any of the three disciplines without actually feeling burned out. I am very lucky that I like to swim as much still after surviving the classic years of endless doubles and collegiate part time job hours.

I was diagnosed with a blood clotting disorder in 2021 - one pretty scary incident - and unfortunately in Kona 2022 I didn't know I was racing with a clot (second incident) and had to go into a high dose of thinners right after. So trust me that I am fully aware of living in the present.

For example, another project I plan for next year is to go full swim mode for the World Masters Swimming in Singapore and see if I can podium in the 200/400/800 free. To medal I think I'll need to be closer to my PBs from more than 20 years ago! But too early still to start dreaming. For now, taking this challenge head on first :)

And yes, it will be great if even one of my athletes can KQ at Placid! By the way, since 2019 I've never aimed for the top swim split at any of the races I've done. It only took me 6 years (lol!) into triathlon to let that one go in order to have a better race all around.

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I see a swimmer here! Push and touch indeed. I am being fully transparent with the video footage so we will all have a chance to do some "eye test" should it come to hundredths.

Finally a strength training comment! and you are more than welcomed to throw advice, ideas, etc..open book here.

I have a solid 2x week (1x upper - 1x lower) that I plan to share later on (stay tuned!). And yes, I definitely need to get more speed workouts in.
Here was today's workout. * I did a hilly 15miler yesterday https://www.strava.com/activities/10695989126 so the legs were a bit heavy but the 50s with pro fins felt great and the last 2x 50s All Out were low 25s.


Warm up
12x100s @ 1:30
4: dragsuit
4: dragsuit, ankle band, paddles
4: dragsuit, anti-paddle

MS - 3x
2x200 free @ 2:40 (make 2:20)
4x50w choice @ :50

Rd. 1
200s dragsuit; 50s anti-paddle tempo
Rd. 2
200s pull, band, dragsuit; 50s anti-paddle tempo
Rd. 3
200s swim; 50s fast walls

Sprint set #1
3x [4x50] on :50 with Arena Pro fins
#1-3 very fast walls and underwaters
#4 easy

Sprint set #2
2x [4x50s] on :60
#1 perfect technique
#2 tempo (make :29-:31)
#3 All out! (make :25 or less)
#4 easy

4,000yds total

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Did you go 25s?

I was thinking about this, considering you're not using a block, you probably have to come pretty close to even splitting this? At first I thought 26.1/26.6 was too even? but maybe not?

I like thinking about the sequence of sets. I'd have done that set TEMPO / TECHNIQUE/ ALL OUT / EZ on RD 1 and TEMPO / TECHNIQUE / EZ / ALL OUT on RD 2. That would be cheating if you were a 200 and up guy, but not for a 100 and down guy. Think like a sprinter!

I did go 25.0s on both. My ideal splits for now would be something like 24.2/25.5. I definitely need to think like a sprinter way more! Hard to let go of all habits. The 50s with the fins were really good and definitely at 100% effort. But again, the legs did not have the same "pop" after yesterday's 15 mile run. My sprint specific day will be Wednesday's and I plan to do the true sprint stuff on the front end of practice.

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Well if your big goal is to medal in the 200/400/800 free at Masters Worlds 2025, then getting your 100 free in scy will be perfect training since you will end up perfecting your turns and push offs in the scy format and your top end speed for the final 50m in all those races which is likely to be the big difference between the medals/win and not anyway. So I can see why 100 scy is important this year over a KQ. I assume you are not going to worlds masters in Qatar this year.

But if you got the 100 scy speed, you can sit on feet for the entire IMLP swim and just do a quick 50m to take the race to land!!! Nothing wrong with leading the race at T1 !!!! (minimally it gives the rest of us jokers on the internet someone to cheer for on race day).

Hi everyone and Happy Super Bowl Sunday.

Here is my first update on the Sub2:50/:50 @ 40 project: https://www.instagram.com/p/C3OD2cJRhrh/

And for those of you true swim fans a sneak peak to my interview with Jesse Vassallo which will be released later next week: https://www.instagram.com/p/C3LErhVOUSZ/

Be well!

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I'm impressed with the negative splits...I've never been able to do that in decades of running!

Quick Friday update:

Pushed a 51.3ish this morning https://www.instagram.com/p/C3an37MOkgI/

Tech suited and after a low thresh bike on Tuesday https://www.strava.com/activities/10756950554 and run thresh yesterday https://www.strava.com/activities/10768604751

My second flip turn was not optimal but the arm speed turnover better than last week. Wasn't expecting a sub :52 at this point so I'll take it!

8 weeks out until Boston so my long run duration goes up to 2hr15min.

Have a great weekend everyone!

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I thought your turn was fine, but from the distance across the pool, looked like you maybe jammed the 3rd just a little bit?

I got you out at the feet at 25;45, back in 26;05 for a 51;5 flat..You are right there, but those last bits are always the hardest!! I think you will need to drop a full second on that first 50 to make it, next time a shave!!! Will make you faster running too I bet...

Nice work, keep the updates coming.

Thank you! I’ll definitely take your 51.5 and fully agree that I need to be at least 24.3. On Wednesday - which is my sprint focus day - I was pushing a few high 24s but they were ugly (!) and I was feeling the beat down from Tuesdays bike thresh.

The third wall was a bit scrunched but it felt better than the second. I want to be a bit more “fluid” going into the wall. But today’s tech suit was very impromptu and definitely not expected.

Wait on the shave! I’m thinking that the two weeks tapering into Boston will be my best opportunity. I do have a local masters meet next month (SCM) and will swim the 100 free off the block - just for you! ;)

I can tell the run volume is starting to affect just a little bit. But the bike volume will decrease as the run volume increases. IM Lake Placid is still somewhat in the back burner.

Will send another update next week :)

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Good luck. I attempted the 2:50 at Boston in 2023 at age 45. I didn't make it. I learned from the experience though and if I tried again I would have much better odds. I don't think I will every be even close to a 50 second 50 though. This is goal that very few people do. I hope you are successful.

Wait on the shave! I’m thinking that the two weeks tapering into Boston will be my best opportunity. I do have a local masters meet next month (SCM) and will swim the 100 free off the block - just for you! ;)//

Well not from a push of course, but a sub 50 in SCY would be about sub 55.5 SCM. Of course you get to dive, but hey, take what you can get and do the push off too. But I'll give the challenge to you for a sub 55.5 in that meet, and my approval is what really matters here...(-;


Still the matter of that marathon thingy of course, that should be loads of fun.. Until it isn't...

Thank you! I appreciate the good wishes! I am certainly putting in the work for both and doing my best to stay healthy while at it.

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Challenge accepted and very doable! If I can push a sub :51 in the next two weeks then you are in trouble sir!

And yes, feeling a bit lethargic after my longest run (17mi) yesterday since Richmond but I'm loving this little loop as it has all the essentials https://www.strava.com/...es/10796523536#kudos

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Not a sexy swim update but still an important one for my Sub 2:50 project, https://www.instagram.com/p/C31FtfGxYr4/

Hope everyone is having a good week!

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Are you doing any over speed work where you put fins or paddles on, so your body can feel moving through the water faster at 48-49 pace?

I wonder if you really attack the last wall more, start the higher effort sprint at 35 yards to go

when you start to get ready for long course masters keen to see what you’re putting down - aim to be cranking on 1:15 - 1:20 time repeats long course?

Absolutely! I hope you can still see this IG story https://www.instagram.com/...s/18026674441812818/ but I used Arena power fins and this day I pushed a :47 with the fins, in the set that same day I pushed a :48 as well.
Here is a link to today's sprint day set where I also used power fins and was pushing some 50s around :22-:23 with the fins but not at 100% effort. https://www.strava.com/activities/10865303687

I agree with you. Not only the third wall but the second wall can also improve maybe a quarter second but the last wall needs more juice!

Long course this year not a priority but for next year's worlds in Singapore I'm all in with long course. I'm seeing the times from Doha this week and I think I can definitely be in the podium for 40-44 in the 400m/800m. The 200m maybe but I'll be tracking those results when they swim on Monday, https://wmc2024.microplustimingservices.com/#/general-schedule - I'm thinking I'll need a 1:56-1:58 to be in the mix, maybe faster.

I use a classic 20x100s long course to gauge my swim fitness in the summer. Always leave on 1:30 and if I can get to somewhere between 1:08-1:12 but not feel trashed then I know I'm swim fit. But I rarely use that fitness anyways since I like doing tri's in the summer.

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Haha you’ve got it all figured out

I don’t remember the 4 for your group but the 8 was sub 910 made the podium.

If you get in 108 for 20x1 shape you’d be in with a nice chance for the 800 podium. You could probably swim around that from a push in a brief if in that shape. If it’s not thrashing you at that speed. I reckon the 30x100 , the last 10, you really are working the endurance then…

The Italians are very strong in the distance events.

I reckon 156 is too hot - that’s a gold swim by a margin. 159-202 is what I am calling for your group

Just trying to do due diligence with the bigger pieces for sure. It's actually been a bit of a change to work on the sprint stuff. I love training in sweet spot l200m-800m land but going full blast with the power fins is actually really demanding if you do it properly.

I agree with your 800m prediction and again will have to change gears next year in training towards 400-800m but I actually really enjoy training for those distances.

I think you are also spot on with the Italians, Filipino Magnini won the 100m in 51.05 (40-44). https://www.instagram.com/reel/C37PkkhIZxg/?igsh=eWFrYzd1MnhremIy

I don't know why but I have a feeling Singapore will bring all the horses next year and who knows who is coming from 35-39. Still I think 1:58-2:00 is definitely in contention as you rightly point out.

Have a good weekend!

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Oh man I wasn’t counting up from the 100 I was counting down paces from the 8 and 4. If he races the 200 I’d say he will be faster than 156

Putting on short blade fins like those crushes the legs. Lots of lactate when you swim explosive

My main races I like to do now are more in the 1500 plus category - where all the slow folk go ;) doing 115 pace but for longer

Latest project update here where I discuss my swim equipment choices and also another update 5 weeks out from Boston:



And a bonus 100free with power fins where I clocked :46 unoffficially



I will be doing a masters swim meet this weekend. Registered for both 100 and 200 free short course meters. The plan is to get ahead of the weekly hard run tomorrow and see if I can freshen up the legs for Saturday. I'd like to break :55 for the 100 and 2min for the 2min.

Monty: off the blocks on these ones just for you! :)

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55.7! Was hoping to be at least low :55 but I'll take it!


https://www.instagram.com/p/C4wSgSyP9vh/?img_index=1

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I think I’m missing something

Didn’t you do 52.7 2 months ago

The 52 was yards. This was short course meters.

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Ok thanks

I would say you are already there

It’s been awhile since I have visited this forum. Last year, at 45 I did a 2:40 marathon. At 22 I did a 44 100 free. I doubt I could make it below 50 from a dive without a lot of work as I haven’t swam-swam in almost a decade. Could I do it, maybe, but I’d probably end up hurting myself.

Nice job, you are so close!!! I think you should maybe shave down for that push 100, it could be that close. And it wont hurt your running either to be a little more aero for those marathon miles..I'm sure when you put this goal out there that you probably thought about 90+% you could do it. But you really challenged yourself with these times, which I really admire. You didnt just put up chip shots, you got two birdies you got to hit, and in a row!!

I did something similar on my 40th birthday, only I did about 10 events that had super high standards over a 40 hour period. Remains one of the most satisfying things I ever did, and was so much fun to do it with dozens of my pro Tri friends too...

Looks like your running is on schedule, so just focus on the swim for a couple weeks and do the things that swimmers do to get ready for big meets...

Almost!

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Those are some impressive stats! Congrats on your 2:40! you aiming for a sub 2:40? you still swim? I'm curious how fast you'd swim a 100 these days.

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So close indeed! and you are right that I honestly thought I'd 90% +/- but it has truly been a joy to train for this with no pressure and just building my own little project.

I appreciate you and others here that understand the complexity of it - especially on the swim side at 40yrs old.

Now some bad news... I had west coast work trip and not sure what happened during the flight or maybe post swim meet/long run but my back locked up on me and I haven't been able to train this past week. I did do 30x100s today and pushed the last 10 around 1:03-1:07 and felt good but I can still feel the pressure in the lumbar area.

Still, staying positive and seeing the PT to see what we can do to make it to Boston. But health first of course :)

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Injury report ! Latest update on the project here -> https://www.instagram.com/p/C5TkOuzuHy-/

Still remaining positive and making the most out of the situation. I can still swim and bike but no running for now.

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Sorry to read, but sounds that you are keeping a positive attitude and working on fixing it. Hopefully you heal quick and can still race Boston.

Thank you!

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So did you make it to the race today? And any news on the swimming front? Sounds like you had a really bad patch recently, maybe just bagged everything and perhaps a reboot to some other challenge...

Curious to know how it went. When I saw the posting a while ago about a hard racing and then a long set of flights I was going to recommend doing the bird dog pose as that would really help things after all flying hunched over.

Checking in and hoping you had a good day!

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Thank you for checking in. Unfortunately no Boston for me today. I'm fully recovered from the lower back pain but I didn't want to regress on all of the progress I've done thus far. The swimming was still holding on pretty good and I might even try to push a hard 100free by the end of this month still. But I want to make sure the back is pain free 100% first. I still got Lake Placid Ironman and Chicago marathon on my schedule, so maybe still a way to slice this goal in a different format. But again, thanks for checking! My spirits are still very much up and optimistic about the rest of the year.

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