I drink 2 whey protein shakes a day with the following recipe

1c vanilla soy milk
1c ice
1 banana
1/4c frozen organic blueberries
2scoop whey protein (20g)

I also take fish oil/flax seed oil and a generic multivitamin (centrum - just because I already had it). I'm nearly out of multivitamin and am looking for some suggestions on that, too.

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mcoker

OK, you said triGUYS, but I am a fanatical gal about supplements.

Current regimen:

• Source of Life Multi w. Iron. take recommended 3 tabs a day, while you can do it all at once I stagger throught the day.(as a girl I really need the iron as I tend to get exercise anemia)
• Calcium: 1000 milligrams (only add what SOL multi has to =1000 per day)
• Bio E with Selenium, Solaray, two tabs a day.
• Country Life CoQ10 - 1-30 mg softgel
• Natural Factors, RxOmega-3 Factors -- hard to get used to so I do 1 softgel at dinner
• Vitamin C - 500 mgs in addition to the multi.
• Protein Powder - American Whey, try to add a scoop (21 grams) to yogurt.

I almost exclusively use www.iherb.com. They seem to have the best prices.

Is all this doing anything for me? I dunno. Is my feeling better actual or psychological? I dunno. But I do feel better and function better, so I continue.

I recommend a balanced diet with lots of fresh fruits and veggies and no supplements. You can go to the doc and get some of that checked out to see where you stand. Last time I did it I was topped off on everything taking nary a flinstones vitamin. The only supplement I take is Glucosamine (Flexicose) because that isn't as easy to come by naturally.

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Don't hold back

oh yeah, i take glucosamine & chondroiton (or however that's spelled) daily, too.

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mcoker

I don't eat to simply eat, my food intake is all about fueling the machine within...

I agree with this and that is why I do not take any supplements but am very careful with my diet. I eat REAL food with lots of grains, fruits, vegetables and protein from fish and lean cuts of meats. I do not believe that man made pills/supplements can replace the natural goodness in food that grows (ie. nothing processed).

It is a struggle sometimes but I try to watch every single item that goes into my body and I ask myself before I eat it, "Does it grow or is it man made."

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__________________________________________________

You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

ditto Casey

---

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

I have been trying to eat better, and also started on Hammer Nutrition/E-Caps' Premium Insurance Caps and have been feeling better.

Hammer/E-Caps www.e-caps.com has a ton of information on their site. They have broken their supplements into categories, "Daily Essentials", "Diet Optimization", "Specific Advantage", and "Superior Recovery", each targeted at different areas.

Eating right will help you get many vitamins and minerals, maybe even the RDA, but those are bare minimums. Smart supplementation will help you optimize your health (and training).

This is a topic I'm phanatical (sorry, I live in Philly) about.

I take a rather large number of vitamins every day on top of protein supplementation and adhering to an almost pure vegan diet.

Vitamin (all TwinLab brand):
Breakfast:
- Daily One w/Iron
- Iron cap
- Acetyl L-Carnitine
- 2x C-1000
- Pantothenic Acid (B5)
- B12 sublingual tab
- Joint Fuel
- Chromic Fuel (Chromium Picolinate)
- Fish oil

Lunch:
- Daily One w/Iron
- Multi-Mineral Caps
- Acetyl L-Carnitine
- Joint Fuel
- Sea kelp
- Fish oil
- Lutein
- Lycopene
- 2x C-1000

Dinner:
- Multi-Mineral Caps
- 2x Joint Fuel
- Sea kelp
- Fish oil
- 2x C-1000
- Super E-400
- Super E + Selenium
- Chromic Fuel

Bedtime:
- 6x Calcium-Magnesium Caps
- 2mg extended release melatonin (I sleep like a log)

If this sounds like a lot, read Dr. Colgan's Optimum Sports Nutrition and do some background research on his facts. Getting essential vitamins and minerals from plant matter won't happen, industrial farming has made soil quality very poor and has reduced the amount of minerals available in plants. Also, the FDA's recomended daily allowance is horseshit for anyone that doesn't lie in bed all day. We put incredible demands on our bodies in training and racing, we should equipe ourselves with the vitamins and nutrients our bodies need to meet these demands and recover from them quickly and fully.

It can get pricey, especially when you first start up, but I get all of these from allstarhealth.com (not affiliated w/them). Cheap prices and shipping isn't a fortune.

For protein, I supplement with ~125g/day of Nature's Best IsoPure whey. Great stuff, it actually dissolves and isn't too gritty. I mix with either soy milk or Ultra Fuel to get carbs with it.

Apologies for being so long winded, but this is a topic I was skeptical of two years ago, but after 10months on this program and a lot of reading and research, I'm sold.

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--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike R

Software Engineer and Mac geek
Aspiring to be front-middle-of-the-pack in 2010.

It can get pricey, especially when you first start up

I have never seen someone who eats as many vitamins. So, after 10 months and probably hundreds if not thousands of dollars, can you feel any benefit?

I know it's hard to feel a change and even harder to know if the change would have occurred on a good diet alone, but have you noticed anything specific?

---

__________________________________________________

You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

Wow. That's a lot of stuff to take. Can you tell me why you take so much iron? I had thought from past reading that taking too much iron could be a problem. How do you know that you are not getting too much iron?

Let me be the first to say:

YUCKEY!

;-)

---

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

What do you eat/drink on the bike?

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mcoker

The iron caps are only 18mg, another 10 each for the Daily One's and 2.5mg each for the Multi-Mininerals gives ~40mg / day. This is on the higher side of average, but the amount we workout as triathletes is also on the high side of average. Every footfall and pedal stroke destroys red blood cells, which require iron to rebuild, so taking a little bit extra isn't inherently a bad thing.

Taking the w/o iron version of the Daily One's would reduce this down into the 20mg range, which is definitely an option if you're concerned with getting too much.

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Mike R

Software Engineer and Mac geek
Aspiring to be front-middle-of-the-pack in 2010.

What do you eat/drink on the bike?

I do not compete in IM's anymore for various reasons so I am not in a position to decide what to eat on 5+ hour bike rides. If I did compete again, I may be forced to have some supplements but would try to eat whole foods (bananas, apples, figs). That would probably not be adequate for an IM. When I did compete, I did eat supplemental nutrition bars but stopped a few years ago when I stopped racing.

I accept that you probably need some nutritional supplements when training for an IM but my post was really in regard to the vitamin supplements used in periods of non-exercise.

---

__________________________________________________

You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

Yeah, what I was getting at was that you eat not just to eat, but to fuel the machine within, and this is why you do not take supplements - with the idea being that pills/supplements can't be better than man made substances.

My question to you, what do you eat/drink while on the bike (which you concede supplements are beneficial) is to ask, at what point does it become OK? And why is it OK on the bike but not during the day. If a supplement can help you during periods of exercise, why can't it help you during periods of non-exercise?

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mcoker

It is a lot to take and a lot to keep organised and purchase, but I do feel it's worth it.

I do feel a benefit: consitency. I'm consistently feel good and I rarely get sick and when I do I'm over it in a day or two. My mind is a lot sharper (fish oil and acetyl l-carnitine) and I sleep a lot better.

The supplements was part of a year-long change in how I regarded nutrition. I went vegan, then I started properly pre- and post-fueling my workouts for optimum performance and recovery, then I added the supplements to ensure my body has everything it needs to do the job.

My diet has been very good for a number of years. I've never been a junk food person, rarely ate fast food, and candy was never very appealing. That said, I have improved my diet by eliminating processed foods and incorporating a lot of whole grains, fruits, veggies and beans.

---

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike R

Software Engineer and Mac geek
Aspiring to be front-middle-of-the-pack in 2010.

And why is it OK on the bike but not during the day. If a supplement can help you during periods of exercise, why can't it help you during periods of non-exercise?

I'm not saying it's not okay to eat supplements but that I prefer to get my nutrition from real foods. As for eating while biking, I think a lot of that has to do with digestion issues where it is easier to drink calories that to eat real foods while exercising. You need calories during an IM and the best way to get them in a lot of cases is through liquids, something that is not as much an issue during the day.


I'm also not suggesting supplements/vitamins do not help or of no value at all. I agree that a lot of the nutrients have been taken out of food so we buy our vegetables (when we can) directly from a farmer who does not use pesticides, not something available to many people.

---

__________________________________________________

You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

125g/day of protein? Why so much?

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--
mcoker

I don't eat meat, so I need to get almost all of my protein from other sources. This is also another case of the RDI/RDA being insufficient in that some sports nutritionists suggest 2-2.2g/kg lean body weight, which means ~140-145g protein/day for myself.

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Mike R

Software Engineer and Mac geek
Aspiring to be front-middle-of-the-pack in 2010.

This is what I take - http://www.usana.com/...els/us_healthpak.pdf, along with an Omega 3 supplement and a glucosamine supplement. I wouldn't say that I'm an expert, but I have used these products religiously for over 10 years and I wouldn't go a day without them. I also use their low glycemic line of shakes and bars. Full disclosure - USANA is a network marketing company and I am a distributor (partnership in the top distributorship in the company for the past 10 years). For the next 2 weeks I am paying for people to come in (free product for you) - PM me for details.

Dax

---

Dax
http://dirtyrunning.blogspot.com

did you ever hear of nutrient competition for absorption, especially with minerals?

---

�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

[reply]
....
Vitamin (all TwinLab brand):
...

If this sounds like a lot, read Dr. Colgan's Optimum Sports Nutrition and do some background research on his facts. [/reply]

see, i did read that book a while ago.
i tried his stuff out, and it did seem to help a bit, but then stopped.
i was in slightly better shape then, but there's a lot of variables btwn then and now.

i will say this: the whole time i was reading the book, i kept wondering: is this guy paid by twinlab or what?

Wow... where is everyone getting their information? I would be extremely interested in reading this research being mentioned in regards to all this supplemenationy hype.

I can't imagine taking all of the supplements that are being listed on this thread. Americans are notorious for getting more than the requirement of vitamins and minerals. And the reason that obtaining these nutrients via food sources is due to the fact that the bioavailabilty is greater when compared to supplements. Just because you take a 20mg supplement of said vitamin/mineral does not by any means actually mean that your body will absorb that amount. Although you don't absorb all of what is in the food source either, at least its a higher percentage and you limit your risk for toxicty (I think it wouldn't hurt to take a look at those numbers).

As a dietitian, I would like to throw a great article out... its the official position paper on NUTRITION AND ATHLETIC PERFORMANCE from the American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada, & the American College of Sports Medicine.

http://www.eatright.org/...dap1200_ENU_HTML.htm

I recommend reading it... its a great way to pass time at work too.

You need to change your name to Mr. Placebo. I am not kidding.

"i will say this: the whole time i was reading the book, i kept wondering: is this guy paid by twinlab or what?"

>>>>

The book was published by a company that Twinlab owns, so yes, he was paid by Twinlab...

Joel

Same here. The only thing I'll take for supplements are a kids' multivitamin and Viactiv calcium chews 'cuz my bone density is low and my doctor told me to.

But no crazy supplements... besides fruits, veggies, rice, pasta, and ice cream.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

good lord. I bet you swallow more pills than you do actual food.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

thanks for posting that... I just skimmed it but will probably read more later.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

You might want to re-think the Chromic fuel, given recent reports that suggest potential DNA damage or even cancer... (google it).

Joel

Thanks for the link, I'll be reading that in the very near future.

I tend to scavenge for information. Triathlon and training is my passion (I'm even comtemplating a career change), so I tend to read a lot and adjust my habits accordingly with what I find and how well it cross-references with what others are saying. I used to treat nutrition as an after thought and now i give it the same treatment and respect that I give swimming, cycling and running.

I probably do take too much and I could probably trim the amount of supplements that I take, which is something I'll have to look into.

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--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike R

Software Engineer and Mac geek
Aspiring to be front-middle-of-the-pack in 2010.

what do you mean by an "almost vegan" diet? I was a vegan for two years and was rather unhealthy. Now I'm an ovo-lacto vegetarian and find I'm doing a lot better.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

My focus this year is short course racing-Sprint and Olympic. Might throw in a half for kicks at the end. I mainly "Fuel the Machine" with a healthy diet.

My only meat source is fish. I will also eat eggs and very low amounts of dairy. They majority of my meals are actually vegan with protein, fat, carbs coming from plant sources. I take supplements because they are convenient throughout the day, especially when trying to fit in extra calories and eat smaller meals more frequently. I do believe I could achieve the same without supplementation. That said:

Immediately post workout (this applies to track workouts, strength training, and hard bike efforts, etc; For long and/or steady runs, moderate swims, etc I don't worry about it. )

1 scoop Whey protein with Grape Juice. Good whey supplement with high GI carbs for fast absorbtion. I then usually eat a regular meal within the 30min - 1 hr.

At night before bed, I'll have an MRP drink to get me through the night. I use a protein supplement other than whey and prefer to get some good fat content in there as well. I am not looking for the same fast absorption I want from post workout. I'll usually mix this with Rice Milk to boost the Carb %.

I try to remember and take my Flax oil in the morning as well.

Pre Race- This varies but if I can wake up early enough I will consume 1/2 serviing of a MRP or a pre-race designed MRP that has a higher Carb Content. I prefer to stay away from solid food before anything up to HIM distance.

During Race- Sprint/Olympic...just water. HIM....Carboom/Gatorade Endurance, maybe 2 gels.

Overall I try to go by feel as well. I might scrap the MRP some nights and go for a peanut/ almond butter sandwich instead. It also depends on what workouts I completed that day and what tomorrow has in store. I think its best to keep supplementation fairly basic and nt over obsess. I can spin any piece or research to tell someone they need more of this/ less than that.

almost vegan in that I do use whey protein and I very seldomly eat eggs or seafood, usually in a 'I have no choice' situation.

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Mike R

Software Engineer and Mac geek
Aspiring to be front-middle-of-the-pack in 2010.

You take that list, every day?

Looks like a vitamin OCD.

Miker- Are you familiar with Mike Mahler. He is strictly vegan and eats mostly whole foods. Check out some of his material when you have time. Good stufff imo.

http://www.vegsource.com/...ahler_big_strong.htm

Thanks man.

Looking at his diet, we eat a lot of the same things: quinoa, advocado, a lot of fruit/veggies and olive oil.

It's good to know there are other veggie/vegan athletes out there.

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Mike R

Software Engineer and Mac geek
Aspiring to be front-middle-of-the-pack in 2010.

Isn't OCD a prereq to being a triathlete ;)

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Mike R

Software Engineer and Mac geek
Aspiring to be front-middle-of-the-pack in 2010.

Bottom line is that you need to take supplements if you want to control the oxidation in the body. Stress KILSS plain and simple. Our body does not know the difference between mental or physical stress and the more we stress the more cortisol we produce, which in return delays our recovery. If we do not adapt from each workout we do not progress...simple!

Go to www.recovox.net and www.themasterformula.com. Once you see the micronutriants you should be taking look them up at www.pubmed.com. You will see why you need these and how they can keep you healthy. They will not make you fast but if your healthy and recovering from each workout and not getting sick, then I would think that would in the long run make you a better athlete...correct?

I don't think supplements are necessary to be healthy, fit, or a competitive athlete.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Then tell me how whole foods can reduce the amount of cortisol that enters the body when we stress? Did you know that cortisol kills brain tissue?...are you telling me if you eat right you will not stress and slow down the cortisol?

Cortisol levels are from stress. Adequate recovery from stress (sleep, days off, etc) should be able to take care of it.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

6000mg of vitamin C???

You're probably peeing out 95% of that...

I agree 100%! But how many athletes sleep enough and get the proper rest they need. If they can do it with a full time job and family obligations more power to them.

excess vitamin c can cause diarhea... there are some nasty effects that can come from over-vitamin-ing.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

[reply]"i will say this: the whole time i was reading the book, i kept wondering: is this guy paid by twinlab or what?"

>>>>

The book was published by a company that Twinlab owns, so yes, he was paid by Twinlab...

Joel[/reply]

thanks for the info, as it confirms a long-held suspicion.

are you saying diharrea is nasty? very interesting...

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mcoker

what is MRP?

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mcoker

I take anti-age, anti-oxidant, multivitamin and essential oils from this source:

http://www.bodylanguagevitamin.com/

Since following this protocol, I experience fewer and less severe colds when training heavily. The website contains lots of peer-reviewed studies showing positive effects from supplementation.

sorry, Meal Replacement shakes.

"Supplement Experts need only reply"

I don't consider myself a "supplement expert" although I do have PhD in Biology and work in agricultural research. My wife does research in food chemistry. What do I take for supplements? I take a multi-vitamin for the days when I don't have time to eat as well as I should and I take glucosamine. That is all that I would ever take. I use chocolate milk as a recovery drink.

There is no good clinical evidence that supplements provide anything that you won't get from a good balanced diet. Also the supplement industry is largely unregulated. When you take a supplement there is a fair chance that you are not consuming what is on the label. So save your money and eat a balanced diet.

Dave

Hodge

Are there any supplements that are specifically intended for excess cortisol?

Thanks

I'm with tigerchik. Keep it simple. Eat a good balanced diet but not too much so you don't get fat. Drink a lot of water, juice milk and stuff. Enjoy life! I mean really, how do you have your friends over for BBQ with a strange diet.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

http://www.recovox.net/research.shtml#Phosphatidyl

PS is by far the best supplement you can take for cortisol. Go to www.pubmed.com and do the research and you will see.

I mean really, how do you have your friends over for BBQ with a strange diet.

not everyone enjoys cooking a slaughtered animal over a fire as a means to bring people together... then eating it!!
I sure do though :-)

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mcoker

thanks for the help, I just ordered some!

Supplements don't always do what we think they're doing, especially in extreme conditions and in highly trained athletes. This article, for example, shows in a randomized design that chronic vitamin E supplementation has the opposite of the anticipated effect in world championship-level ironman athletes. Our natural defenses have enormous plasticity when it comes to stress response, and this has been honed over millions of years of evolution. As opposed to our fairly recent ability to overconcentrate substances that we think we understand. So, caveat emptor, and so on.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...;itool=pubmed_docsum

Not sure how fish oil and whey fit into an "almost pure vegan diet..."

Beer.........heart Abbott Ale this evening. Hydrates, kills pain, full of important replacement stuff.............

My $.02 on vitamins and supplements.


First of all, I am not paid to endorse any products and I buy my drugs, so these comments are all without vested interest in the companies mentioned.

If you are taking anything that makes you feel so good, or perform so much better by taking a couple of them, then what you are taking is probably either an illegal, controlled, or a banned substance. What supplements do is much more subtle and is noticed more by things like speed of recovery, quality of sleep, sex drive, good skin, healthy nails, hair, teeth, gums, and consistency of energy or the course of months and years (not just days).

Those of you that think that eating well, and everything in moderation etc. is enough, you are probably also satisfied with your race results and you are not interested in getting faster. I can talk about racing and at what level I try to race at, but the right supplements also help recovering from broken bones, appendectomies, and other traumatic injuries on your body.

Vitamins and supplements are something everyone should take because nobody eats a perfectly balanced diet. Supplements do just that they supplement your diet. I have come to learn that the quality of the ingredients is as important so I do not skimp on stuff like this. I am on the Damage Control Master Formula program.

I also take glucosamine and chondroitin for joints because I am 46 and still racing hard. If they whether they work or not, they are inexpensive and worth the effort just in case.

Finally, I use Recovox. The hormonal effects of stress on the body are what age us, slow our metabolism, and slow our recovery down. While exercise helps stress you are still producing cortisol, the hormone that causes all this. After 4 years of taking it on a consistant basis, it is worth every cent.

---

Emilio De Soto II
Maker of triathlon clothing, T1 Wetsuits, & Saddle Seat Pads and AXS since 1990
emilio@desotosport.com http://www.desotosport.com

my ears perked up at your sentence about something healing broken bones.

I'm curious. What supplement helps with that?

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Well, specifically I was talking about consistent use of supplements...not just one in particular, but if you posted asking what in particular, I am sure some doctors, nutritionists, and other more qualified people would answer.

By the way, now that I have your attention, where did your name come from, Tigerchik?

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Emilio De Soto II
Maker of triathlon clothing, T1 Wetsuits, & Saddle Seat Pads and AXS since 1990
emilio@desotosport.com http://www.desotosport.com

bone healing = calcium and rest.

contrasting images that fit me... vicious, sleek, fast, fighting tigers + chic girl.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

cute, very cute...not just the name, but that you see yourself that way. I am a cat person, that is why I asked.

---

Emilio De Soto II
Maker of triathlon clothing, T1 Wetsuits, & Saddle Seat Pads and AXS since 1990
emilio@desotosport.com http://www.desotosport.com