Could you please write an intelligible post? What are you talking about?

---

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

Why does Jack have so many haters on Slowtwitch? He seems to be universally adored on social media, but it seems that some people on this form are jealous that he managed to carve out a high profile triathlon media profile for himself.

I'm thankful for the work and effort Jack has put in. An avid consumer and a short term patreon. No hate from me but yes generally the twits here do hate

Just my 2 cents…

I’d not call myself his hater, I listen to probably every second HTT / TTH podcast, but I still don’t appreciate many things he does or says:
- (not a crime in itself, just doesn’t appeal to me) he’s heavily biased towards the athletes & people he has close contact with
- (as above) his hyperbole is laughable (everyone is the best, the GOAT, the closest, his favorite, the hardest working etc.)
- his advertisement for PP, Tripple Magnesium, Form goggles etc. is too much for me
- he’s biased towards PTO because they’ve employed him, unlike IM

Overall I don’t perceive him as trustworthy nor genuine. But I happily listen to his guests.

I thought you were talking about Luke. But you were talking about Beth his wife.

Isn’t Google wonderful

https://www.triathlete.com/...ans-announced-today/

the above post nailed it. the hyperbole and bias make him unbearable to listen to.

my wife, who is a follower of triathlon enough to know most of the pros, but not know who jack kelly was when we turned on the PTO US open broadcast to watch...within 10 minutes of listening she asked me "who is this commentator", and then added a statement to the effect that he seems insane. that was about the point in the race, midway thru the bike, that Jack said it was the most exciting triathlon he'd seen (again - this is midway thru the bike when nothing was happenign...), and that all the americans were out of it and had no chance. jason west ran to 2nd.

i just dont like listening to him talk because of the things he says. it's pretty simple. and i don't think i'm alone. maybe i am subconciously jealous that he has carved out a media profile in the sport...but that doesn't mean i can't also personally dislike his style and the things he says.

its perfectly clear what he means.

His bias towards the PTO heavily predates his involvement with the PTO. He has a heavy interest in growing the pro sport and believes, as many do, that PTO is the best route forward.

Not disagreeing with anything else you said.

It was not to me I had to do some digging. Luke McKenzie was literally in tears when Collin Chartier got popped. Surprising how things sometimes pan out.

---

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

It's not so easy given that beth only got 2 years it's not that clean cut.
But still ,it's enough for the original poster to ask the question. And it was perfectly clear what he means.

My problem with Jack Kelly is the bloviating. Loves to hear himself talk. And he's like a sith lord, only deals in absolutes.

It was clear after I had done some googling. Reading it cold I had no idea what it was about. To me anyway.

---

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

Yet you stir the pot with your forum post...

---

E-DUB
Chief Janitor @Slowtwitch
Life is short. Dont be mad all the time.

I think this covers it pretty well.

I’d also like to add that it may be a generational thing but he seems to pivot between some kind of reporter brining you “the hard hitting questions” and the “breaking news”, things I am a fan of, and this incredibly silly and stupid persona that’s “totally in love with Fredrick Funk”.

And the Sith Lord comment is so true, I still can’t get over the fact that he called that bridge overpass in Singapore the equivalent of a queen stage in the tour.

Yeah what I mean while it is clear beth failled a test, it's not so clear cut if it was voluntarily or involuntarily.
So while I don't think her husband should cry for show when somebody gets poped, it does not raise my blood pressure

At the same time if you are the worlds most anti doping guy that jack claims to be , it's not the smartest collaboration.
But then again I am sure making a living from podcasts is not that easy and extremely time intensive
.

Got you. Yes I agree from the report I read its not clear cut. If it was accidental its a real shame and diabolical that PEDs appear in salt tablets.

---

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

Replying to the thread generally:

1.) Let's not re-litigate Beth's penalty. We've been through this one twice before.

2.) Of all the things to harp on Jack for, this ain't it.

As I've said in other threads, I think Jack is our current Skip Bayless / Stephen A. Very popular, very loud, very much not for everyone, might overstay their welcome depending on the hyperbole-o-meter, but I ain't gonna sit here and fault him, either, for carving out a niche for himself. There's room for all of us at the table.

---

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

To someone who doesn't spend 2 hours a day googling obscure facts about low profile ex pros, local brands and podcast partnerships, it read more like a riddle.

---

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

It was a big story at the time, with Luke attacking people on social media for being critical.

Really? I had no idea! Just goes to show I have been around a long time but that one flew over my head!

---

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

I don't consider this to be an 'obscure fact', and certainly not at the time. Back when they were running Island House Tri and Beth's Osterine positive was blowing up, it was a very big deal. They were very influential personalities and figures in the sport due to controlling the start list for that big money event and their racing success in racing in the 2010s.

When the news broke, people decided they liked Beth and Luke, were generally willing to explain it away, and give a pass in the court of public opinion.

I'm always surprised to see how much Wynn Republic brand escaped and continues to escape any contamination from Beth's doping positive.

What are you talking about? If you're talking about Beth McKenzie doping sanction from several years ago somehow makes him a hypocrite, well most people on this board are hypocrites. But I don't see how getting sponsorship money from Wynn Republic makes his anti-doping position hypocritical. Unless you're talking about something more recent from Luke or Beth that I'm unaware of. Should he be pro-doping if he makes a sponsorship agreement with Ineos or Bolton Equities?

Like please explain your position here.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Listened a little to his recent podcast with Lionel's cameraman where Jack was bragging about having a laugh with Crowie all week. Kind of felt bad for the guy because it's apparent he'd never hung around a locker room or had any real sports buddies growing up.

Beth got popped, served her ban. Should Wyn be boycotted because if that?

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Socially, he often comes across as a somewhat difficult "my way or the highway" kind of guy.

I am in the "not 100% sure what y'all talking about" camp but I think I have connected enough dots despite not knowing the McKenzies nor following Jack Kelly's podcast.

I must admit that I was not a fan but he is growing on me. I think Jack has self corrected to some of the feedback he has received.
He is passionate and knows the sport well.
I am a listener again

---

It's a Good life if you don't Weaken!
My Mom 1922-2004

I think that's one of his best assets, the fact he has access to virtually everyone and can get some good scoop on things happening behind the scenes. But I also thing that could be his downfall; he becomes "BFFS FOR EVER!!!! I LOVE YOU!!" with them, and that kind of relationship can go very very sour. Maybe I'm just an old fart but I like professionalism. But I understand that if he were professional about his position, he would probably not get the access he is getting. So it's a fine line threading.

I really liked it when he was focusing on the training and talking to coaches and athletes, his interview with Olav is one of my favorites. But he has ventured into this other persona where he's BFFs with athletes, he trolls, he makes memes, and all kinds of silly things that quite honestly are not for me. There are meme pages and troll pages that are so much better at it than him.

this is a trend i'm really not a fan of. you see it with talbot trolling sometimes, and mark matthews has been doing more of this . . . it's just not my cup of tea.

---

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Yeah, not a fan of the trolling, and there are much more talented meme creators out there than them, to be honest.

But I get it why he (Kelly) appeals to some folks.

The other fine line is how much of the behind the scenes stuff do the athletes want on a podcast? The PTO opens debriefs between Talbot and Jack were quite interesting to me as a fan, but it seemed like they were talking about things they may be shouldn't be. They need to be careful or the athletes won't want them around anymore or will stop telling them things.

I walked away from that episode thinking, "huh I wonder if Crowie has a urinary incontinence thing going on and the various blunders are covers for it." The conversation was very juvenile. I had the impression that Talbot was just sitting there dumbfounded like, uh, ok, this is awkward. Now the Blumenfelt stuff was pretty good though.

That's a great way of putting it. He definitely has some really good moments in the podcast, like that Olav interview. But there are time where it is evident that he is very very young and very immature.

Yes, that Cox/Kelly 'behind the scenes' degenerated as it went on. I guess there is a small number of athletes who don't care whether this stuff goes out so expose themselves. I hope, perhaps vainly, that Cox has the class to stay on the tasteful side of such stuff. Kelly will just go for clicks regardless claiming every athlete's his bestie.

forums are the worst for keeping things on-topic. everyone is wanting to express their feelings about a guy that is trying to make a living as a race commentator and expert. Lantern Rouge is the best at it for world tour cycling. He also speaks in absolutes and gets excited and such...but he does his homework just like JK.

Point made is the OP is bringing up the idea of hypocracy bc JK supports Luke's company and it's a sponsor and Luke's wife failed a drug test for SARMS, which is very dangerous and kinda crazy.

This all really has nothing to do with how you feel about JK's commentary.

The issue in part can be that most want to think of commentators as impartial, insightful “authorities” and “experts” in a given sport and competition based on experience. This guy is a super fan that has worked his way into commentating for the upstart race organization. Did the PTO include him as a pivot to what is available for commentating and covering the sport? Is he really the best of what is out there covering the sport? LR can be hyperbolic about cycling but he isn’t part of broadcasting races. Triathlon doesn’t have to be like other sports but it also shows how niche it is when Jack Kelly can be on broadcasting teams, PTN is considered informative, content creators just babble about “bts”. Now, why Kelly has the two McKenzie stiffs on is perplexing. They are not entertaining, aren’t really that plugged in, 🤷🏼‍♀️

I disagree. World Tour cycling is commentated by our NBC experts. Triathlon is too niche to think it deserves the same level of commentary. Overall, the performance of triathlon comm testy for IM and 70.3 is a D- at best. But they don’t hire good media people.

I'm sorry but no. LR definitely does his homework. Kelly may know a few things here and there, and I'll give him credit that he does know a lot of athletes and coaches, but during the commentating for the PTO races he said some bombastic shit based on nothing but his inability to control his exaggerations. Again, a bridge overpass was comparable to a fucking queen stage at the tour. Give me a break.

The problem is not wether or not he knows things about the sport, the point is that he wants to make sure everyone knows that he knows so much and he ends up exaggerating and saying things that are completely false.

I honestly don't understand why people think that Kelly is the commentating this sport needed. Have we forgotten how fucking awesome Ali Brownlee was commentating Super League a few years ago? Now that was some good insight into the dynamics of the race, without the superlatives and exaggerations. THAT to me is what this sport needs for commentary.

They picked him because he has an audience, but really because he was cheap. Look everywhere, they've slashed costs at the product level. It started by not being their own race promoter and piggy backing off current promotions or "partnering"- Challenge (Daytona), Collins Cup (Samorin), PTO US Open (USAT Age Group Nats), Dallas (USAT), Edmonton (Whoever Promotes WTCS Edmonton/Paula's Mom), Ibiza (ITU).

The best broadcast they have had was a NASCAR and NBC produced event at Challenge Daytona. The second best was honestly the first Collins Cup even though the rotating commentary had a ton of issues, but the resources they threw at that was pretty wild.

Each year the level of broadcaster they've hired/contracted and put on air has declined. And that's how you get to Jack Kelly.

But if you go back to the product level, they had 50 Men, 50 Women at their races. Well this year they're at 30. Paying less people. Then lets get to the bonus pool...paying less people.

People keep saying that Moritz events is expanding, I believe that when I see it. Notice they didn't do a "Canadian Open" they say they will be back in 2024, but you should believe that when athletes show up for Race week. USAT Age Group Nats are going to be in Omaha, well do any of you think they're taking the US Open to Omaha?

But this is about Jack Kelly. He's not there because he's any good. Now he was given a shot, good for him. Hopefully he did enough to get a real one, but that could be his only one.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Those criticising Kelly should check out Carlton Kirby lol. Triathlon needs a bit of hype.

Why? Why does it need THAT type of hype?

Is that how the sport grows? By having some dude speaking in hyperbole and being bffs with the athletes he promotes in races?

Are we forgetting how wrong he was about Frodeno in Milwaukee? Dude was basically forced to admit that Jan was still a contender. And I bet my left not it wasn’t because of ignorance but because of his own personal bias.

FFS threads like this remind me what a bunch of miserable whiners triathletes (or at least the ones online) can be.

You have a guy who is enthusiastic as all hell about our sport and all you guys can do is have a sook about him and his 'hyperbole' etc, seriously get outside and get a life. Its highly amusing coming from mostly US based people who's sports are the epitome of hyperbole, over the top, rah rah cheer squads, pyrotechnics etc and are more like rock concerts that sporting events. But yeah, some bloke getting excited about a sport he loves must be stopped...

As for him being wrong about Frodo, yeah...who would have thought that a 42 year old who has been battling injuries for the last 3 years might struggle...nah, must be that 'personal bias'....

Oh no, people are having a discussion in a discussion forum.

And you are wrong about the Frodeno thing. It started about a week or two earlier in his Instagram account, where every athlete is the “best ever”. He made a Frodeno post and this time Frodo was only “one of the most complete” athletes. It’s pretty obvious the dude is not a Jan fan so he doesn’t get the hyperbole.

He has called jan the 🐐 a number of times

After Milwaukee he did. In fact they were joking with him at the end of the race about it.

Difference between having a discussion and peoples sooking about everything and everything under the sun. Its seriously sad, whine whine the commentators are too boring, whine whine the commentators are too over the top, whine whine he didn't call my hero the goat, whine whine the term goat is stupid, whine whine whine

And here you are too, whining because some people don't like Kelly's style.

Isn't it ironic, don't you think?
It's like raaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiinnnnn......

And to be clear, I'm not a Jan fan myself. But calling Jan "one of the most complete" when every other day you call all your buddies "the greatest triathletes in the history of the universe" speaks very poorly of Jack as un-biased commentator, which I believe someone already made that point:

There is an expectation of commentators to be not only very knowledgable about the sport, but also unbiased. Jack is only one of those things.

Weak...and if you want to use ironic the definition would have to be Americans complaining about hyperbole...

And there are parts of Jacks style I don't like, particularly how often he says 'funner' or how he says 'trust me'. But then I put my big boys pants on and get on with life rather than running to the internet with my box of tissues..

lol, so you are getting upset about hyperbole, and then on the other hand are upset because he referred to Frodo as the 'most complete' instead of using the term 'goat'....omfg...facepalm...

I'm not American, so it's cool. I can complain about hyperbole.


Good for you. Aaaaaanyways...

Like I was saying. Jack definitely has some content I really like, his interviews with atheltes and coaches about training were awesome. He has deviated from that and he is more gossip, rumors, and trolling and I personally have no interest in that. He did make improvements from Milwaukee to Singapore, and I guess we will have to live with the hyperbole if he is staying as one of the PTO's commentators.

Cool, thanks for mis-interpretenting what I said. You are either going to engage in this discussion in good faith or I can just simply ignore you.

I don't care if jan is called GOAT or not. In fact, I don't care what Jack Kelly said prior to him becoming a commentator for the sport. All we are saying is that he uses too much hyperbole and the dude can't hide his biaises. I don't think we are asking too much.

You are getting excessively worked up over us having a conversation about some aspects of Kelly's commentating we don't like. Maybe take your own advice, put on your big boy pants, put down the tissue box, go outside and get a life.

Wrong, you need both of them. Jack Kelly as the play-by-play announcer (basketball term, it's not really play by play in triathlon but you get what I mean) who knows the sport well still, and had lots of cool insider things to say about most athletes. Jack is decent (and improving) at this. And then the ex-or current pro (Alistair) as colour commentator, the expert who can really relate to what the pros are experiencing and is good at relaying this to the audience. Alistair is indeed great at it.

Yeah, I get it. But with many other people that have Jack’s personality or style, it will always be polarizing: you either love it or you hate it. You can see it in this very thread.

Same with Lionel, he’s very polarizing, his fans fucking love him, and his hatera fucking detest him and his fans.

So to all those Jack Kelly fans out there, buckle up because your boy has some people thar don’t like his style. “Put on your big boy pants” and take it.

I'm sure his 'fans' will sleep at night, unlike his critics ;)

The fact that people can get so worked up about at totally amateur, untrained, self-employed bloke trying to make a living talking about a sport he loves is hilarious. Champagne tastes on beer budgets...

My man, get off your high horse and realize that you are just as pathetic as we are. You are in here whining that someone doesn't like something you like. Grow up.

I agree... why the hell is there even a post about this sort of stuff? Time to grow up. You don't like it, great, jog on champ. Always another podcast for you to listen to.

Can someone please do three dot points to explain to me what this thread is about?

-OP starts thread calling out Jack for being friends with an athlete who was busted doping years ago
-Everyone jumps up and down about what they don't like about Jack for the millionth time
-I call them sooks

Got it 👍

You missed the part where I enquired WTF the OP was about. I feel so ignored!

---

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

I see the NZ/Aus contingent is alive and well this morning. :)

Long-term I think Jack *could* grow into a role, but I don't think he's the PxP person. That needs to be a more experienced, polished hand. Someone who can steer a broadcast for a few hours, let Jack have his moments, let Mirinda (who honestly has been the biggest surprise all year on commentary across every brand) get her stuff in, and then be able to talk to the non-triathlon geek audience / be trusted. Not far off from Scott Van Pelt getting ESPN to bid on the NYC Marathon and host that coverage.

---

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

So you're saying it's wrong to remove your pants and browse the internet with a box of tissues handy? Damnit I got that all wrong.

So, this is what I got from the Kelly stans:

1- We should only talk about things we like. With pants on.

2- We shouldn’t not like things people like.

Got it.

Agreed. I think Jack and Talbot absolutely have a place in triathlon media, we need the loud sometimes obnoxious voices like Stephen A, Mad Dog and Skip Bayless. But we also need measured media that evens out some of the more extreme voices like the Sportscenter anchors of old who got you hyped but not through negativity or hyperbole but just through solid reporting and entertaining content (thinking of Kilborn, Olberman, Van Pelt, Scott and Patrick) or even a Wilbon.

I’m still hoping that Pat and Mark can settle into those type of roles on PTN.

We need different styles of commentetary and social reporting to grow the sport. Jack appeals to a ton of people which is fantastic, but he also is the complete opposite to others so we don’t need to cancel Jack but instead beed the other voices to emerge to be available alongside him.

I'm definitely not promoting a "cancelation" of Kelly, nor do I think anyone in here voicing their "dislikes" is trying to do that. I completely understand his appeal, I understand why a lot of people like him, and he has a big social media presence. He should continue to do what he's doing, and if Milwaukee -> Singapore is an indication of how he can progress, in a couple of years he may be very good at it. The hyperbole won't stop but like you said, that's going to be his style, not my cup of tea but some good drinking games may come out of it.

This should be a forum for sharing information, tri-related. Not a gossip fest- or winge fest... unfortunately, people feel the need to winge about anything and everything on here these days. Keep it to the bunch rides, and come here with intelligent conversations.

Australians are back.

Maybe he just hasn't shown Lionel enough love to earn the respect of ST!

Bloody Aussies

I love Jack, seriously you got to consider him as the greatest of all time. I've never met him but we're real close, I consider him a real mate. I'm not trying to suck him off, but he's amazing.

I trust you on this

I love Jack's content and personality. He's great for the sport. I have a true disdain for his overt biases. He's pretty anti-North America. He goes out of his way to discredit American and Canadian athletes. Give me a damn break.

The other thing I dislike is his hate for Ironman to the point that he has nothing on his Instagram about the IMWC. I love PTO, even more than IM, but I believe both need coverage and you just can't choose to not cover part of the sport because you personally hate a brand. It's not fair to the athletes or the fans.

Jack needs to grow up and set his personal biases aside for a minute as a self-proclaimed fan of the sport. A real fan doesn't go there. You love the sport universally and don't let "partners" or "sponsors" interfere with your love of the sport.

He's putting personal gain and motives ahead of his so called love for triathlon. It reminds me of Triathlon Taren and Talbot. Do they "love the sport" or "love what the sport does for THEM"? When they're self interest isn't supported they are crickets or lash out. It's not the least bit cool.

this taking sides goes beyond one podcaster.

I don't want our media to be CNN or Fox News.

Is this a weak troll or do you really have no idea what you are talking about? He is over in Nice and every post for the last 2 weeks has been on the WC's, he has even had Messick on another podcast this week..?

Riiiiight...so he has travelled all the way to France so he can ignore the IM world champs....and your criticism is that a podcaster who is actively doing podcasts, even has had the CEO of IM on again, is ignoring the WC's because he hasn't posted enough pretty pictures...

The internet summed up perfectly..

Who ?
Obvs not that high profile!

I really loathe insinuations such as this.
Assuming the worst and Beth’s positive result was correct. Does that mean in your world there are no second chances? Does that mean in your world that any business that she is then associated with is forever tainted and should be blacklisted? Because that is basically what you are implying.
Wyn has been built into a really nice premium product line that is used by a number of pros and has a strong and loyal following down under. Beth is one part of it. We are now so far post her suspension period. Heck, Wyn was even on one of the GTN pre race segments and they are working with Chelsea and have her in a prototype suit in Kona at this very moment. Which also happens to be where my swim coach is doing a swim camp etc with her pre the big dance.
Do we now need to put Chelsea in this same group of people who should not be associating with the brand?
This is just a joke. Jack is polarizing I get it, he is Australian and like Wurf, a lot of the world struggles to get the humour that we are all so used to. This forum loves to hate. He’s no Triathlon Taren promoting pseudo rubbish etc. He is unique on many levels and clearly has some close relationships with a number of pros and brands and his knowledge of the sport is exceptional all things considered.
Can we just let a guy (or gal) (or they/them) build their brand and be successful without making such stupid insinuations.

He didn't say, or imply any of the things you said, all he said is that it is hypocritical to be a staunch/vocal campaigner against doping, but to then partner with a firm ran by someone who served a doping ban.

As it goes, I like most of Jack's podcasts and I think he has done well for himself.

Peak ST. Post originator has not replied to one comment. 4 pages later……

Im a 50+ yr old curmudgeon at times so the Skip Bayliss style of commentary/content drives me nuts…so i do not tune in. Its kinda that easy.

Be water my friends

---

@rhyspencer

I have an opinion that wasn't expressed, I was asking a question to see if others were similar or different in thought.

Triathlon is all about second chances irrelevant of wrong doing (alleged or proven); Lance, Beth, Macca, Sutton - take your pick

I'm fine with the guy, maybe I just don't get annoyed easily. He's not mean or anything so I don't care.

Well, he does grossly and inaccurately embellish like Taren. He also promotes his sponsors shamelessly for self promotion like Taren. For Jack it's Pillar and Taren AG1. I get it in that you have to plug sponsors, but both guys are using the sport for self promotion and gain at the end of the day. They're one in the same in my eyes and I like them both.

And yet, we haven’t seen one single story about today’s race. Not the “greatest race in the history of the sport”?

Edit: He finally made one. But with how verbose he usually is with his race posts, if you can’t see the bias you are lying to yourself. He isn’t about promoting the sport, he is about promoting himself through the sport.

exactly right, like he knows all. You almost feel sorry for him because he thinks his relationships with the athletes are real friendships and not just business ,you can't help but think he sits at home each night looking at Fred Funks profile telling himself they're best friends.

Also, its clear he just makes stuff up about himself in another Podcast he was speaking on his own career and a quick search on OBSTRI of Jack results would say he has just made up his times and his 40 hour training weeks. He also announce he would come back to win AG Roth next year, another point of jack not living in the real world.

To be honest, I think that’s probably the only way you can make it in the social media era… you have to be willing to be a little (or a lot) fake.

To be fair, I didn't even know what he looked like prior to his commentating gigs at the PTO US Open. If you look at the podcast's socials, it's all about the athletes and coaches. He did the now infamous Road to PTO European Open with Chartier, Funk, Noodt, Bishop, Royale just talking about their weekly training. He did a series where two coaches just talked to each other. He gave Hayden Wilde his own show. He's pivoted to more triathlon news content, but in the early days he focused on the athlete's training. I remember him posting about 'epic' sessions like Cam Brown's training calendar. So I disagree that the content he puts out is all about him.

One thing is the podcast itself, which I definitely like, especially the coach interviews. The other is his social media footprint. That’s where he is more “trolly”, “jokie”, and that’s where people get the “look at me I’m friends with all the pros” impression.

And he is a somewhat fake in social media. Are we forgetting that he went to bed “shaking” and “crying” when the accident happened in Hamburg? All he wanted that day was attack Ironman as it was post Messick interview. He even called out Messick directly.

Would you support someone that went to jail, served their time and got out?

For murder or rape?

There's an awfully wide gulf between an anti-doping violation (that included a reduced penalty) and rape/murder.

But to your question, I've shopped at brands or stores that have assisted ex-cons. Because if you've paid your debt to society, re-integration into society is also key versus treating someone as a pariah for eternity.

---

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

The comparison between doping and rape/murder is so stupid it doesnt quantify a reply!

I work with 2 ex-cons - our company has a scheme to assist re-introducing people into society and giving them a chance. I may be biased because of this, but they are 2 of the hardest working people in our company / I have ever worked alongside. I couldn't agree more

So there’s levels of wrong you are ok with.

I have never purchased Nike shoes or clothing due to their child labor back pre 2000

That’s my line.

I’d never buy a product from a convicted drug user

I’d never fly on certain Middle East airlines that have human rights violations

I notice sponsors on this site aren’t any of those so Dan thinks the same.

But that’s me.

At what point would you stop holding a grudge for previous wrong doing?

Would you buy Nikes if 75% of all proceeds were verifiably given to children’s charities?

What about if they gave 10% of all future revenue to any person who was employed by them under the age of 18 for the remainder of their lives?

What about if they provided every child globally a free pair of shoes every year until they turned 18?

Is there actually a point where they could attone or once a sinner always a sinner and no good can over come a troubled past?

This is how society is supposed to work. You're supposed to be able to come back after you've paid up.

We've pursued partner agreements with WYN in the past. They didn't work out.

Dan also sold the site a year ago, if you recall. https://www.slowtwitch.com/..._the_Baton_8502.html

Honest question: we'd *gladly* take a partner agreement with Delta, as both Eric and I fly it damn near exclusively. One of their partner airlines is China Eastern. Is this problematic in your eyes?

I'm writing this on a MacBook Air while wrapping up a call on my iPhone, and about to review the Apple Watch. Same standards?

---

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I’m sure there’s plenty of things in your household that were manufactured in China from companies violating Chinese child labor laws.

I hope you don't eat meat.

I think you have mistaken his personality towards the people he interviews and who he actually is.

As a podcast host he is super nice to athletes and coaches as without them what is he???

he basically told Andrew M Ironman is just about money and they are not for the wellbeing of triathlon.

He basically told his audience today, that they have to pay and attend his show to hear the audio from the nice interviews.

Kind of in it for the money , like he tried to slam ironman with.

Or he is controlled by PTO and cannot post due to contract.

Who he is, just like 99% of people, in it for money and props.

You must be ethnical and moral to create income or success but I get to change the rules when I can grow fast, on be more successful, but I am still going to be nice to those that can help me or pay me.

this is our world now.

---

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

I find it quite funny that his “live podcasts” in Nice are not in fact going to be podcasts.

Word on the ground over there was he forgot to bring some recording equipment. you assume sponsors would be annoyed

This forum is weird, was it Triathlon Taren the ST hit squad was taking down a couple of years ago? Now its this poor dude.

Boils down to jealousy I'm guessing.

x2

Triathlon Taren kind of had it coming when he started blatantly shilling and going all hocus pocus with grounding mats and 20 watt increase from insoles etc.

But yeah, there are a stack of miserable old bitter people here that try to make themselves feel better by stirring shit. Pretty sad..

That makes sense. He should have just said that. Pretty weird to say you're doing a live podcast then not actually put out a podcast, especially for your Patreon supporters.

Ok, so explain it to me:

When I say:

I enjoy his podcast, he has some solid interviews, I really liked his episodes with Olav.
I don’t enjoy his commentating, he exaggerates too much to the point of making some very silly comments, like how a bridge overpass in Singapore was the equivalent of a queen stage in the TdF. I also don’t care for his trolly persona he puts out on Instagram.

Where the fuck is the jealousy?

You're jealous this guy's podcasts are so solid, that you feel the need to bash his persona on other criteria? :-)

While still praising the aspect I actually dislike? XD

Sounds more like copium by people that can’t deal with the fact that some people don’t like the things they like. Or by Australians that can’t deal with it their countryman being criticized for his style of commentating races.

Are you part of the ST hit squad? Odd how you took my comments so personally?

Are you going to try and answer the question?

He's got a solid podcast, knows his stuff, and get's great guests.

Anyways, the more popular and successful you get at something the more cranks out there that will try to crap on you. I doubt he cares though...

I just find this so interesting. According to this line of thinking nobody should ever dislike anything, or if they do they should keep it to themselves and not have conversations with anyone.

Welcome to the internet, Australians. You must be new.

Sorry, I should have wrote that I was responding in general on the thread, not to you as I didn't really read your post. It just seems that if I want to post I need to press 'reply' on the last post. It might be a fault in the forum tech.

Also, I'm not actually Australian, not sure why you think that.

That part wasn't directed at you, sorry about that. There a few users in here complaining about the criticism which based on the slang they use it's obvious they are Australian.

You seem way too invested in this topic, nealry 30 responses. Can you point on the teddy bear where Jack touched you?

And here you are still. The guy that “puts on his big boy pants” is still here complaining because some strangers on the internet say mean things about an Australian podcaster he likes.

But sure, it’s just me the one that’s too invested in this.

It’s called having a conversation/discussion/debate or whatever you want to call it. Either participate with some good arguments, or put on those pants of yours and sit down.

If you’re indirectly sort of kinda comparing Jack to Triathlon Taren, I must file an official protest.

I may not be a huge Jack Kelly fan, but he’s not a snake oil salesman trying to get people to swallow pills by the boatload.

So there’s no comparison between anti-TT Slowtwitch and anti-Jack Slowtwitch.

---

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

You seem angry, is everything OK? You cant change the world, but you can change you!

Oh snap! You got me, you got me.

Tulkas does seem angry. It's funny when he (presume Tulkas is a he?) thinks Australians can't handle Jack Kelly getting criticised and when Tulkas' comments get criticised, Tulkas gets really fired up.

He's had plenty of criticism in the PTO threads whether that's justified or not, I've thrown my 10p worth in myself in.

This thread is more of what is called a social media pile on these days, as pointed out, you seem to be in here attacking anyone defending him.

You've quite clearly expressed your opinion, so why not move on?

To quote my daughter's Montessori school, the two of you need to go to your separate refill stations until you can get out of the red zone with one another. Let's avoid the personal bickering and get back on topic -- fair criticism/critique of Jack, fair defense of his approach.

---

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

No, I am not here attacking people defending him. I am here defending those getting attacked for not liking some aspects of the work he does.

So far I’ve been called: angry, jealous, a crank, a whiner, a “winger” (from the verb to winge), to “put on my pants”, to “get a life”, etc.

I’ll actually posit the complete opposite: there are people in this thread that are very angry that Kelly is getting criticized and are attacking those that are expressing said criticism.

XD I’m not angry, I’m actually having fun. The personal attacks are a bit uncalled for but I’m sure the mods will take care of that when something gets out of hand.

So far nobody has directed any personal attacks towards Kelly, but I’ve been called a a few things simply because I said I don’t like his over-the-top, superlatives up the wazoo, style.