I would say cut the raisins, nuts and coffee out of your before run meals. I'd go with something like a bagel and peanut butter and keep it simple.

I know this is going to sound nuts (and in retrospect I realize it was nuts) but when I started having stomach issues in some of my marathons I decided I'd train my stomach. I'd eat large amounts of fiber (kashi go lean was my poison of choice) and then try and do an hour on the treadmill (had to be on the treadmill in case their was a stomach emergency). I never made it the hour and my stomach never got "stronger." Through trial and error I've learned what I can and cannot eat before a race. My dinner the night before marathons is now cornbread and yogurt. Try different things and see what happens.

I'd say something is just plain off and it isn't your diet. I can't imagine that happens to even a very small percentage of the population, no matter what their diet is. I'd simply run through it by routing your run where there is relief at mile 5 and seeing if you work through it, if you can. I would not be taking immodium or anything like that. Maybe that is just the way you are, but I don't think diet is the problem. Maybe if you haven't "voided" in a while?...but I can't imagine that is a normal situ for anyone with anything like a normal diet and a normal lifestyle.

well, i had stomach problems a few times this winter. what i discovered was this:

-the night before, do not, i repeat do not eat shitty food of any sort. this means no cheap pizza, no greasy burgers, nothing but clean whole food that doesn't have killer seasonings or sauces

-no beer at least 3 days before a long run

-take a tablespoon of Pepto before long training runs

this helped me over come it. trust me, i know how you feel it's awful!

good luck,

kc

I think diet has something to do with it but I have also noticed for me that if I take off at too quick a pace or if I let my pace get too high for too long I start to have this issue.

Cut the coffee.

Drink Powerade or equivalent instead. Skip the caffeine altogether or if you must have some, try an excedrin.

Do you eat oatmeal every morning? If you regularize your diet it may help, eat the same thing every day.

I don't think I could eat that type of food within 4 hours of beginning a run. Maybe because I have conditioned my body to it, but eating before running is not usually a good thing. I usually run before eating anything, with the exception of maybe a gu or 1/2 powerbar. Not really the help you are looking for, but that is it.

Wife had the same. Screwed up marathon training. her coach told her to take 2 Advils an hour before her run. End of problems.

You need to remember that one purpose of long runs is to teach your body to start using fat as fuel. You will never do that if you eat less than three hours before a workout. I don't do speedwork anymore, but when I did I needed at least three hours of digestion to be able to do any kind of decent workout.

Consistency in training is pretty important so you can learn how your body reacts. I run every morning and know that most of the time I am going to need to do my morning business within about 30-45 minutes of waking up. Most days I wake, shave, dress and head out the door and don't have time for things to work themselves out. So I just plan my route to pass a Port a john or bathroom.

Chad

diet didn't help me, never ever had this problem (even running 18 milers) until about a year and a half ago: now for anything above 45 min or so (regardless of time of the day, regardless of what I eat) I better plan to run in an area where there are potties available. Long runs seem to be a lot worse on this than tempo/speed ones for some reason.

the other things i want to add are:

-sleep soundly 2 nights prior to long run

-no typical sports drinks. if you need a sports drink, use INFINIT nutrition. all of the others made me sick for sure!

it probably is an accumulation of things rather than just one thing. i figured that i had to plan well and rest up, eat super clean and basically have no fun a few days before a long training run. :) lol...

that really is an issue. but short of a medical review...which you want to examine closer...i'm thinking you have just not adjusted the diet and hydration enough.

what you described for intake before a 6 mile run would lead to several issues for me. maybe not in the same way...but issues nonetheless. that seems like a ton of food to be processing while doing a long anything.

further...i don't know that it is a good idea to fuel up heavy and then add chemicals to counter the processing by-products. less comlicated to just reduce the amount of fuel. i'd rather see you eat less and drink more. and on those days when the schedule might allow you to run...stay light on the food...just in case. on those days you are then planning for the best.

and...save the chocolate milk for recovery please...not for up front fuel.

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Train hard...race well.
www.jimmishler.com
"Jim, I happen to agree with you" DougStern

option 1. learn to go before you run. drink stronger coffee and more of it. this is what I've always done. oatmeal and coffee are usually enough to get anybody going. Eat something low in fiber like a regular bagel if you want to slow the process.

option 2. learn to let go really fast so you don't lose time and run on trails with lots of "options". a trail runner friend told me his best time was 9 secs (no wipe).

try and get a good warmup run at the marathon to get things percolating before the gun goes off.

I have this problem too! Yeah! Let's hold hands and talk about it!

I trotted my way through an IM marathon (the first hour was horrible) then went on to do it again at the next 1/2 I did. Bathroom stops are not good for fast times. I think caffeine is a problem for me AND greasy foods. Try to get on a "regular" schedule and cut caffeine maybe? Let me know if you figure it out, I'm afraid the brown bandit will return at my next long race :(

Here are a couple of follow ups to some points raised---

1. I eat the same thing just about every morning. I usually drink more than one cup of coffee, but I decided to "cut back" today. Also, my meal last night was a fairly healthy Shepherds Pie (very lean beef, potatoes, green beans, etc.).

2. I don't WANT to take anything for this problem. However, I don't look forward to the prospect of crapping myself in public. I will research most alternatives to avoid this.

3. Until I really started training and working out heavy I was not "regular " whatsoever. If I went a day or two without going it was no big deal. Now, it is much more like how many times a day not if it will happen that day.

4. Question as to what Advil would do for you before a run? Why would this affect your digestion.



chris

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"You can quit, and no one will care if you do. But you will know."
~John Collins, Ironman founder

Member HED Mafia

I have struggled with a similar issue. For training I finally decided not to worry about it too much -- just plan the run where there will be places to stop if need be.

For the marathon, a few things. (1) It's not the end of the world if you lose a minute on the porta potty. Do what you can to avoid that, but don't obsess on it. (2) I have used Immodium with good results. I doubt Tums would help. As with all these things, you need to test them in training. Immodium messes with your water balance (by pulling it out of your gut), which might affect some people's performance. (3) Practice different strategies on how to clean out the pipes the early morning of the race. OJ can work well as a laxative. As a last resort, you could try an enema, but you didn't hear that from me.

A longshot, but for me, anything with garlic in it the night before a run tends to be problematic. It doesn't take much, either. Even some of the pasta sauces contain enough. Sucks as it is so good...

No offence to those of us that like to guess but have you considered seeing a doctor? You may have a condition that can be dealt with.

Are you talking to me or the OP?

My wife has the same problem, except for her it occurs around 3 miles. It makes no difference if she goes before the run, she still has to go again around 3 miles. It has made no difference what she eats or drinks - she usually only has water before she runs. It makes no difference what she eats the night before - or even if she eats at all. She didn't start having this problem until she was training for her first marathon a couple years ago. Now she has it on every run. When doing a race she will use Immodium, but not for training because that stuff messes up her system for several days. She has to plan to have a potty available at around 3 miles. After that she does OK.

I'm the opposite. In the years I've been running I've had to go exactly once during a run - about 10 miles into a marathon. I eat and/or drink whatever I want before running with no problems - within reason. I don't eat a full meal or drink a huge amount before a run, but I'll often have 3-4 cups of coffee within an hour before I run.

I keep hoping to see a good answer to this problem so I can tell my wife about it.

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Don

Tri-ing to have fun. Anything else is just a bonus!

i'll go back to the potential medical review. there may be something hapening which a doc could help pinpoint. that said and the standard "...but i did stay last night at a..."; stress of any sort helps create some gastric issues in general for lots of people. i have some friends who get stressed about doing a long run, all other factors remaining the same, and bingo. and i don't mean stressed where they are fretting and worried about whether they can go the distance, more like just whether they can get the time to do it. that sounded like a potential in your case.

as for chemicals...i was referring more to the Tums or whatever. just always seemed to make more sense to me to eat lesst of something that wouldn't create the issue to begin with. i had a moderate ulcer develop during a notably stressful time many years back and the best advice i got from my doc was to learn to feed it less reactive things and do tons of water. and that was when three packs a day was normal for me.

Advil/Ibuprofen will indeed create a gastric reaction for many people. like any other chemical, some can handle it, and others react very unfavorably. i know of some folks who slammed some prior to long races thinking it would ease this or that and then got slammed with major gastric distress.

water remains the great regulator. and it is always easier to regulate smaller amounts of everthing else.

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Train hard...race well.
www.jimmishler.com
"Jim, I happen to agree with you" DougStern

I also have problems and have talked with docs about it... and had all sorts of bloodwork....whatever....

Because I don't eat big meals....but eat CONSTANTLY throughout the day, and MUST have a small stomach...I go very regularly.

When I'm preparing for a long run or ride I have found something that works for me (while not a SURE thing....it has helped)...

If I'm meeting people for a long ride on Saturday morning...

On Thursday for lunch and or dinner...I try to eat lots of foods with fiber....this can be found in cereals and stuff....then on Friday night I'll eats something with lots of rice (like Chinese food - but keep in mind it's very salty and high in sodium so I drink LOTS of water while I eat )

That combined seems to at least help....though during long rides...when we stop, if there is an opportunity to go....I at least give it the ole "college try" :-)

Also to note, that I've noticed that my body in general has been MUCH better since I've cut out all (or at least most) processed foods, hydrogenated oils, and other "nasty" stuff...I cleaned my cabinets of that stuff in Jan. 2005....and have been fully enjoying the change! :-)

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------------------
The world is full of pricks who can only criticize. Are you one of them?

Your time and energy are limited. Are you wasting them by talking shit on the forums? -Dave Tate

You want problems? Try bellying up to an all-you-can-eat Indian buffet, eat at least 3 plates, then go for a run anytime within the next few hours. It won't be pretty.

reminds me why I stopped running.

and for the fellas who say "go before you run". I do. I can do both #1 and #2, 30minutes into the run, I have to go. My gf laughs at me, comparing me to her grandparents.

Come to think of it, my doc did do some blood tests a couple of weeks ago, I wonder if the results are in.

Immodium helps when I have serious problems, but I always feel bloated when I take it. Not really ideal for any exercise for me...

I've found that pre-run coffee makes my stomach irritable. Plus, coffee is the ultimate laxative, so there's 2 reasons why you should skip it until after you finish running.

Try to drop the kids off at the pool before you head out to run. You CAN train your body to do this, over time. For me, I have a large glass of just plain water right after I wake up, and this signals my stomach, et al that a download is imminent.

Also, I pretty much never eat before I run (I almost always run in the early am), or for those times when I do eat prior (like raceday, or if I'm not training until late am or afternoon), then I make sure that I have at least 2.5-3hrs+ between eating and exercising. I can get away w/ shorter food-exercise interval if I'm biking, but I need more digestion time prior to running.

Honestly, if you are exercising for under an hour (or even 90 minutes) you really don't need to eat a thing prior. Your body has plenty of calories on-board to draw on to get you thru the workout. I don't even bother with water during running if it's under an hour (unless it's really hot/humid out, here in the NE it is neither right now), even up to 90 mins. More than that and I'll bring some water and gel w/ me, less and I just go run.

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float , hammer , and jog

[reply]
option 2. learn to let go really fast so you don't lose time and run on trails with lots of "options". a trail runner friend told me his best time was 9 secs (no wipe).
[/reply]


eeeeewwwww!!!!!
i mean, this whole thread, well, it is what it is, but...


eeeeewwwww!!!!!

[reply]I've found that pre-run coffee makes my stomach irritable. Plus, coffee is the ultimate laxative, so there's 2 reasons why you should skip it until after you finish running.

[/reply]

i'm aware of that, but pre-run no-coffee makes my personality irritable; i'm just not goign to be pleasant and i'm not going to enjoy my run.
OTOH, i drink espresso - not the litres of coffee that most people drink, nor the huge amounts of steamed milk, so it has _less_ of an effect. but it still does have one.

a bunch of people have mentioned immodium, and it does work. but in a similar thread a few months ago, someone referred to immodium as the "nuclear option" which seems pretty apt to me. don't get too reliant on it.

-charles

I occasionally get into a cycle when after about 30 minutes of running, I gotta go. Neither recent diet nor previous morning activities seem to matter. My strategy is to do a "warm up loop" that puts me near my house or make sure I'm passing one of the scoccer fields with portolets. Once all is clear, it's a beautiful day for a run.

I've done it everywhere imaginable !!... I run country roads.. corn fields are my friend. With me .... I can make it an hour then it hits ...BAMB... It doesn't matter what I eat or when I run !! One time my running tights had a knot in the string, not a good thing ...LOL

Common problem obviously. I love oatmeal but it'll definitely make you go, as will the coffee. When I used to run in the evenings, if I had oatmeal/granola for breakfast I could only make it 3 miles or so - and there was no coffee involved. No oats, no problem.

Now, on early morning runs, It's what I ate the night before + the coffee + the amount of water I drink before the run. Pizza or salad for dinner, forget it. Plus if you drink alot before the run, your stomach will just empty it into your gut once the coffee and running stress take affect, and then there's no turning back. Best solution IMO is to avoid the fiber and grease 12 hours before, and don't hydrate much before the run - ideally drink small amounts every 15mins during.

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TK
ttbikefit.com

Oatmeal is high in fiber, not to mention the nuts and raisins you added to it. That could be part of your problem -- if I have oatmeal for breakfast and then run in the afternoon, I always have to go. Could you change what you're eating? Maybe do just the toast/peanut butter and skip the oatmeal?

I know a couple people who take immodium before long runs, but I'd only do that as a last resort.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Immodium (loperamide) 1/2 tab (1mg) an hour prior to running. Increase dose if needed but start low. Too much can cause stomach cramps / side stiches. I've used it for years with no adverse effects.

dm (pharmacist)

Who would have known this thread would end up being so informative. I am pleasantly suprised. Thanks to everyone who has contributed some great ideas and things that work for them. I going to try and put a few things in practice. Also:

1. I agree the Immodium is the "nuclear" answer. Don't want to, but as a last resort I will keep it in mind.

2. As for seeing a doctor--don't really see a need right now. I doubt it is an medical issue they would beable to do anything for other than what I have read here. I am in the medical field currently. The more time I spend doing what I do the more I understand the statement, "practicing medicine". I have probably done more research and am far more educated on this particular subject and my body than andy GP could be. I am in no way cutting down the medical field, but I can exercise most options they would give me without the $20 copay. There is a time and place for seeing a doctor. I just don't think this is either.

3. I figured oatmeal was a pretty safe bet. I do see that it is pretty high in fiber. I am going to switch to something like Ensure or Boost the morning before a long run. As for the other times when life runs me before I can run--well, I guess it is time to start carrying baby wipes in the Fuel Belt.



Thanks all,



chris

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"You can quit, and no one will care if you do. But you will know."
~John Collins, Ironman founder

Member HED Mafia

ad 4) I have no idea, and I don't think the coach did either. But she said that it did relieve the pain of the butplug.

I don't think anyone suggested that yet. I like it though.



chris

---

"You can quit, and no one will care if you do. But you will know."
~John Collins, Ironman founder

Member HED Mafia

I can sympathize with all who've had this problem - have been a runner for 30+ years, and have confirmed the well-known fact that runners (more than cyclists or other endurance athletes) enjoy "enhanced gastrointestinal motility" - e.g., the s*** moves through pretty darn quick.

I agree with the ability to "train" the GI tract - and with the need for routine. Problem always comes up that my pre-long-run routine (up two hours before departure, 1-2 cups of coffee with gatorade + energy bar + banana) works great if I've slept the night before - but I always have insomnia the night before a marathon, so wake up tired, which gets things going. If I follow the routine, however, I 'take care of business' before heading out (first part of training the GI tract: perform on demand!). Often go through a period of 15 - 20 minutes beginning about 30 minutes into the run when I might stop if there's a convenient location nearby; if I get through that (there's the second part of training the GI tract: learn how and when to ignore your body). Of course, learned the latter while training for surgery - very inconvenient to pop out for something as insignificant as a trip to the rest room in the middle of an operation.

Caffeine does increase GI motility, so can stimulate activity - but many (like me) use it because it's a mild bronchodilator and helps if you have a tendency toward exercise-induced asthma. And any of the NSAIDs (such as ibuprofen - e.g. advil and motrin) can have a stimulant effect on GI motility - which may be related to increased acid production in the stomach. If you find that happening, tylenol (acetaminophen) may be preferable, as it tends to have less impact on gastric acid.

Used to run with a guy - who was chairman and ceo of a good-sized industrial company - who had this problem, and delighted in making deposits in the carefully-groomed shrubbery of other well-to-do execs on our early morning runs. Always knew when this was coming - he would steer our group away from our usual runs over toward Snob Hill - curious, as we had a pretty diverse group of runners in age and background, and he was completely un-self-conscious about this predilection. I never figured out whether to be embarassed by, or to admire, his attitude.

Try cutting out the caffeine AND the peanut butter. I don't know, caffeine actually makes me feel more sluggish rather than energized, and the acid does a number on my stomach. Peanut butter is actually pretty hard to digest. It tastes great AFTER your run.

As for things with fiber - that is personal. I can eat carbs that have fiber and run just fine.

Chris, I saw this thread and wanted to post what Kim Brown posted in the infinIT forum about your topic. Hope that is OK.

Kim Brown wrote this post in the infinIT Nutrition "Ask the Experts" Forum.

"Hi Chris,

Running is always going to be a bit more jarring on the stomach as compared to non-weight-bearing activities such as cycling and swimming but don't worry, your marathon training is not a lost cause.

You are doing the right thing in experimenting with different foods right now. Just on what you told me, going off on a long run with merely a gel in your system or quite the opposite (a couple burgers) is not the best scenario. In general, you should aim at consuming 400-600 calories 2 hours before and you can even experiment by splitting the calories up. Aim at ~1 gram of protein per 4 grams of carbohydrate ingested. Avoid consuming more than 20 grams of protein, 10 grams of fiber, 15 grams of fat in the 2 hours prior to as excessive amounts of these nutrients tend to slow down digestion and can increase the likelihood of you "trottin" to the bathroom rather than to the finishline. You also should try to eat your dinner the night prior to running a bit earlier (at least 3 hours before bedtime) and this meal should be carb-focused and light on fat/protein/fiber (e.g., spaghetti with marinara sauce). Some common pre-run meals (morning of run) include:

1) My pre-race meal of choice: Purefit bar (http://www.purefit.com) plus 1 banana taken 2 hours before with 16 ounces water. In addition, I sip on 16 ounces of a salty sports drink (my InfinIT solution) in the hour leading up to the race.

2) A little smear of peanut butter and sliced banana on 2 slices toast.

3) Special K cereal with nonfat milk and berries.

4) Plain instant oatmeal topped with banana, a sprinkling of nuts, and nonfat milk.

5) Low fat yogurt topped with berries and granola.

Hope this helps!

Healthy regards,

Kim Mueller, MS, RD
InfinIT Sports Nutritionist
www.kbnutrition.com "

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infinIT Nutrition
Custom Blended Nutrition Solutions
http://www.infinITNutrition.com

Look at what you ate. Oatmeal! What is it???? Way too much fiber. Before runs, stay away from oatmeal, cliff bars, corn the night before, etc, or I'll guarantee you'll have stops. Caffeine's fine, just not the roughage.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

I've only had occasional problems with this since I stopped using some of the drink mixes with protein in them (Accelerade, E3, etc) and went back to Gu2O. This was the 100% guaranteed source of major Dreaded Atomic Gut Bombs. I've noted a few things that definitely give me problems though:

1) Bananas are really high in fiber, usually about 4 or 5 hours later it's time to go! Eating part of one doesn't affect things (less than half a banana) and I sometimes will munch half a banana at halfway in a 15-20 miler.
2) Snack bars/breakfast bars with high content of oats/raisins/etc like the Nature Valley Trail Mix Fruit and Nut. This also goes for other bars like Clif Bars and things.
3) Huge and/or greasy meals at lunch with a run right after work. Big meals are obvious because there's a lot of food there that wants to get out. Greasy burgers and fries are bad for the obvious reasons. Get a baked potato instead of fries if you have to stop at a Wendy's or something for lunch.
4) Certain beers will mess with your stomach, sometimes delayed by many hours. Carlsberg is one of them for me, no clue why.

The other thing mentioned a couple posts back was training your GI. Can't describe how to do this, but I never go for a run longer than about 30-40 minutes without going for a p00p first. Consider that your First Commandment. Caffeine doesn't bother me (but I don't drink coffee or sodas), I get it only from the Gu gels.

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Thanks for the tip. I used this on my 15-miler yesterday, and it worked great! First run in over a week that I haven't had to stop at least once. And, no adverse affects that I can tell.

Steve

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Steve

"If you ain't first, you're last." Reese Bobby Talladega Nights

Wish I had that problem, I'm the opposite. Long runs = hard stool = hemmies = OUCH :(

I also put a bunch of tricks to use over my last two long runs. Thanks for all the input so that I could stop the OUTPUT!!!!

Here is what I found

1. Afternoons seems best for long runs.

2. No coffee

3. Extremely light breakfast

4. Boost about 2 hours before my run

5. 20oz. or more of water an hour before the run.



The only side affects are that my stomach is still really screwed up for the rest of the day and maybe part of the next day. I must really stir up some acid.



BTW, this week was the real test because the night before I at authentic Mexican food including a ton of beans, salsa, and fried chips. 14 miles and no unscheduled pitstops.



chris

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"You can quit, and no one will care if you do. But you will know."
~John Collins, Ironman founder

Member HED Mafia

Try some Calcium-Magnesium tablets the night before. then have coffee and a small, low fiber meal. Usually will have to go right after the coffee and/or meal. If this doesn't work, run where you have access to a bathroom until you get it right.

The Magnesium holds water in the bowel, so it move through faster. Eat the fiber after the run and at dinner.

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_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

Not sure if someone has already posted this, but have you looked at some of the ingredients of the food or drink you are consuming? I had a similar problem a couple of years ago. After three weeks or so of running in agony, I took an inventory of everything I ate during the day. The only thing I had changed during the time period was switching to Splenda (sucralose) as a sweetener. After a little research, I found that sucralose can have similar effects as the fat free oil Olestra (stomach cramps and the runs). I switched sweeteners and have been running without running to the crapper ever since.

I didn't read through the entire thread so sorry if this has been said but pop an Imodium before your run.