I tend to agree with you regarding your skepticism of their claims. That said, thanks for reminding me this product exists! For sprints that aren't wetsuit legal, this *might* be a good choice if there's an aero benefit on the bike.

You don't wear these (blueseventy also makes one) on the bike, FYI.

If they want people to buy this they need to put a pad in it and let it be a standalone trisuit as well.

And for god sakes, give us some better color options. We triathletes like to look good. That's almost more important than being fast. Well to most it's probably more important.

That's what I was thinking. For a sprint, I don't need a pad. Did my last sprint in just a polyester swim jammer.

My only concern is that, when the water's too warm for wetsuits, the air's probably too warm for long sleeves on the run.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

I experimented with a blueseventy swim skin at a sprint race back in October. Totally workable on the bike for me. Admittedly hot/tight on the run.

I assume you experimented with a PZ4TX? That's basically a TX3000 suit. So yea, it can work on the bike/run. A sleeved swim skin however...? good luck.

Also, this Kiwami suit isn't the "first." blueseventy has had one for a while. Availability to consumer maybe the first I guess.

here're a few details behind the proclaimed 5.75" / 100 time savings.

test location: last fall. Pau, France. 50 m pool.
test panel: 2 athletes + kiwami owner and former Olympian, craig Watson.
test procedure: 3 x 100 m on 2 '. ample rest. 80% perceived effort.
tested items: regular swimsuit (speedo style); entry level trisuit; new Tokyo trisuit; Spider ws1 (elite trisuit); aquarush; top of the line wetsuit.

computed results:
we averaged each athlete's times and compared those to their aquarush times.

observed results:
the average gain swimming with the aquarush versus swimming in a speedo: 5.75" sec. the largest observed difference was 7 sec. the lowest was 4.75".

other observations:
the aquarush was faster than any other textile trisuit and just as fast as the top of the line wetsuit.

of course:
this is just an empirical test. and it can be questioned.
however the results are striking enough that we feel confident in their significance.

I hope this helps a tad and of course am open to further discuss this item or any other kiwami topic.

---

Kiwami North America
http://www.kiwamitri.com
http://www.aquamantri.com
contact@kiwamitri.com
http://www.facebook/kiwamitriusa

I just got one of these and it looks really great! I'm trying to get my swimming to a fitness level right now so I can do a valid test. Anyone in the Madison, WI area can take a look and try mine.....

Is it ITU Legal? Maybe USAT would select it as the team uniform :-) Just kidding.

Hahaha! Thanks for that. Maybe I'll take my spot after all so I could forget to take this off? hmmmmmmm.......

one can always argue the significance of "first".
i do know ours was first available in October '16, WTC approved by then and 5 athletes raced Kona with it.

---

Kiwami North America
http://www.kiwamitri.com
http://www.aquamantri.com
contact@kiwamitri.com
http://www.facebook/kiwamitriusa

They say it tests faster then a normal swim skin, but the main point for me is that I can wear my bike suit with the sleeves on under, so I save time in T1 (and don't need to roll it down around my waist or have the sleeves sticking out from my non sleeved swim skin). I used the BlueSeventy PZ4TX in Kona and it was great!

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Instagram and Strava: @lpstormo

right on; way to save time in T1.

and also, great for sun protection.

btw, great pics!

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Kiwami North America
http://www.kiwamitri.com
http://www.aquamantri.com
contact@kiwamitri.com
http://www.facebook/kiwamitriusa

of course, you could have the sleeves sticking out anyway under a sleeveless swimskin..but hey, who's counting?

Ummmmm......

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

reading comp fail. oops.

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=SMscyTfMO-A

Haha


Looks like the suit for the US teams lead swimmer back in 2000.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

How about compared to arena carbon pro or speedo lzr?

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I think the Carbon Pro is a Tri suit with chamois pad? correct me if I am wrong :)

How fast is transitioning out of those sleeves?
I can imagine trying to pull of a really tight fitting sleeve which s also wet can be a pain in the a**
Also: when i wear my Orca Kona Dream Aero whatever it is called suit :D It fits really tight to not have any wrinkles, swimming in it would be possible, but it is clearly not made for swimming fully zipped with sleeves on. It doesn't feel right and the customer service confirmed it too.

Do you guys really swim in your aero suits? Could be interesting for some short swim segments.

Cheers
Nick

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sent from my iPhone

Well, the whole point of a swimskin is, that it is allegedly faster than your bikewear. Otherwise people would not swim with their bikewear under their swimwear. If this is true, than it is (at least marginally) faster to have the sleeves of your bikewear covered by the swimskin instead of when they stick out.

So if you have the choice between a sleeved swimskin and a sleeveless one, why should you opt for the sleeveless one? Wouldn't make any sense.

Anyway, I was going to buy a swimskin but wanted to wait a bit until a sleeved swimskin came available. When my eye came on this thread I ordered directly the Kiwami Aquarush. I'm waiting now until it arrives such that I can test it in the pool (if the size is correct: I understand that a swimskin should fit a bit too tight out of the water to have the optimal size).

Of course if you have already a sleeveless swimskin, it is questionable whether you should spend a lot of money to replace it by a sleeved one, since the difference in speed will only be marginal.

There maybe a Trisuit within the carbon pro line. But I am referring to the high performance jammer (men) and kneeskin (women). That said 5 seconds per 100 faster than a brief style training suit sounds pretty outrageous

---

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Yeah I agree. Perhaps there are a small proportion of swimmers out there that might see those kind of figures, but for the majority I reckon no more than 1 or 2.

Just think about this... how long does it take a swimmer put on a properly fit suit (5-15 minutes) ... and some swimskin that goes on/off in seconds is worth 5 seconds/ 100.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

glad you (as a great swimmer) chime in.
would you care to try it on? and let me know your findings as far as time savings?
if yes, please email me at contactATkiwamitriDOTcom

---

Kiwami North America
http://www.kiwamitri.com
http://www.aquamantri.com
contact@kiwamitri.com
http://www.facebook/kiwamitriusa

Email sent. BTW 400 timed this morning 4:19. It was the main set as oppoed to yesterday's 200 strong in 2.09 at the end of my workout.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

hm email not received. contactATkiwamitriDOTcom
and pretty ! splits. very impressive!

I have worn a swimskin in Sprint Tris loads; I just wear tri shorts underneath for a bit of padding. Admittedly it does rub under the arms a bit on the run.

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29 years and counting

I'm not getting any faster or better looking . . so my suit better be pretty spiffy.

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Pete Githens
Reading, PA

I'd imagine sleeves would largely rectify this issue.

Hey Nick,

I had the opportunity to try the Kiwami Aquarush skin in Kona last year and made a quick video of it if you want to take a look (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJrz6fr310w).

I was also a bit skeptical regarding the ability to quickly unzip it and take it off. I tested it 4-5 times to try to get the zipper to get stuck, but I never had an issue. I also found the skin to be snug, but that's what I would expect, yet I never felt restricted around the shoulders, which was also one of one concerns. Being an average swimmer with a "ok" technique, compensating for any shoulder restriction would be the perfect recipe for injuries. I like that about the Aqua Rush. It felt snug, yet the fabric they used is very flexible.
Of course it takes some time to put it on correctly, but it does not matter for us, triathlete. It does matter when you tried to transition out of it. I tried 4 times and here is my quick observations:it was very easy to unzip and very quick and easy to get my arms out of the sleeves. I find it just as easy as taking off a regular sleeveless skin.

As far as performance goes, it felt faster in the water because I felt more comfortable than I thought I would (again this is related to the shoulder restriction concerns I had), but I did not actually did any swim test to prove it. You would an expert opinion who tested it to gauge.

Overall, I thought it was a great product, and seeing other brands releasing their swim skin in Kona last year, it's great to see more mixing up with the competition. They already make great speedsuits, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see more Aqua rush skins this season.

Hope this helps! Sorry for being so late to the party!

Happy Training and good luck this season!

Cheers,
Kevin

Hey Sean,

I had the opportunity to try the skin in Kona, and actually thought the colors looked great. One comment my fiancee made is that she could find me a lot easier amongst all the other swimmers, and she could spot me from afar quicker too. At least on race day, spectators, friends, and family can spot a swimmer wearing the Kiwami Aqua Rush quicker in a pack of swimmers wearing black swim skins :).

I tried the Aqua Rush in Kona and really liked it. I made a quick video of it when It tried it (https://www.youtube.com/...DJrz6fr310w&t=1s). I think this thread has provided enough info on how quick it is, but if I can add to this, I thought the skin felt snug as I expected it, yet I never felt restricted around the shoulders (one of my main concerns). The fabric is very flexible too, which makes it very easy to wear on top of your race kit. It takes some time to put it on correctly, but taking it off was a breeze. Unzipping it was easy, and taking my arms off the sleeves was effortless. Peeling it off was just as simple as any sleeveless skins. One cool thing: the colors makes you more visible to your friends and family who come to spectate the race. My fiancee was able to spot me from afar amongst all swimmers.
You will love it. Let me know if you have any questions!

Cheers,
Kevin
twitter & IG: eviantriathlete

My Kiwami Aquarush just arrived and I' m happy that it fits. I ordered an "L" and it fits very tight the way it should be. I'm 1.85m tall and weigh 89 kg (in summer 84 ;-) ).

The only nuisance is, and that's a real one, is the zipper behind the back. I have the same system on my wetsuit, but that one is really big such that I can close it alone.
With the Aquarush I tried for 20 minutes but gave up: I can't close it alone. That doesn't matter if you're before a race, because there are enough people to help. I want to train with it regularly in the pool though and will always have to ask someone to help closing the zipper ;-(

Edit: I succeeded now already two times in closing the zipper by myself. You have to develope a technique.

In most trainingsessions I do a 400m after warming up. My times were in december
8'14"; 8'32", 8'10",8'16", and in february (in january I was ill) 8'22" and after a leg shave 8'08".

So the leg shave brought 14".
Today I swum the 400m with the Kiwami Aquarush in 7'55".

(Please don't make remarks on my general swimming times)

So for what it's worth, I guess the Kiwami makes me about 15" faster on 400m. That's 2 1/2 minutes on an Ironman for 200 Euros: 80 Euros pro minute :-) which is ok for me. Put it this way, I'd pay another 200 Euros for another 2 1/2 minutes.

Of course such a result is always to be taken with care: shape of the day and so on. Because of that I plan to do a test with 8*200m, where I change from Swimskin to Speedo or the aother way around after every 200m and swim with the same perceived effort. That should result in a clear up and down difference of 5-10 seconds.

CLOSING THE ZIPPER
I developed a technique now to close the zipper by myself.
With the right hand I hold the right zipper-half between thumb and index finger, where I have the thumb on the inside of the zipper. In the beginning I had the thumb on the outside, but you cannot exert so much power like that.
I also wet the fingers a bit with spit, in that way they hold better on the tissue.

Andre - i have a question... I understant aquarush was design to be swam in the long sleeved tri suits and whereas the swimskins sleeves are designed for swimming; the long sleeved tri suits are not. Has anyone experienced how does it compare wearing sleeved suit with aquarsuh vs having a long sleeved suit tucked into usual swimsking and putting it on t1 .

And lastly since i am doing mostly hot races (thus swimskin not wetsuit); does aquarush feel hot in water with double layer material?

I have sleeved Kiwami tri suit and currently wear sleeveless swim skin. Have been racing with tri suit on with sleeves and the sleeveless swim skin over it. Is that what most people do these days? Or do you roll the tri suit down? Seems like too much work in transition.

Guessing I will move to the sleeved swim skin at some point.

So you say this is as fast as a wetsuit.? Do you think that is actually the case? Or are there certain specific factors that made that true here such as water temp??? What was the water temperature by the way, was it done outside or inside. If outside, what was the time of day and air temp? Was there a particular reason another swimskin wasn't tested?

Last year I tested the differences between swimskins. Now, I am going to have to go back and test swimskin vs non swimskin. I'll do a similar protocol as I did in the original test, 800s, but I'll do it over 7 days to get a bunch of data. Here was that test. People can notice that my particular sponsor at the time did not test the fastest. The Elite was in the range of margin error. I would say no way for the Pro.

http://www.thomasgerlach.com/...iper-Tyr-torque.html

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we have tested the AquaRush against only one (high end) wetsuit; and of course were very pleased.

that said, we'd be most happy to send you a sample for your testing. if you're interested, please confirm your mailing address at contactATkiwamitriDOTcom.
we'll be happy to hear your results.

---

Kiwami North America
http://www.kiwamitri.com
http://www.aquamantri.com
contact@kiwamitri.com
http://www.facebook/kiwamitriusa

to answer your question, this test has yet to be done. we do believe that having your top rolled on your stomach isnt optimal when swimming.
we made sure both the sleeves of our trisuits and of the aquarush are super flexible. therefore, we think it's most effective to swim with your SpiderLDAero on under the AquaRush. You'll be faster in the water and save quite some time in T1.

that is one heck of an offer especially to someone else sponsored by your competition!!!!
Very nice of you. If you need to send one to any one I am free and race in the southeast USA so no wetsuits for me :)

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Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC
I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO

I must be missing something or dense, but how do you unzip the Aquarush suit? I'm used to a break-away zipper on the Roka (unzipping down), but I cannot figure out how to easily unzip the Kiwami, Thanks for any help to this confused former engineer.

Hey Tom. Not missing something, and certainly not dense :-) Hopefully my explanation is engineer-worthy. The fastest way (for me) to unzip the Aquarush is to pull up the first 2 or so inches of the cord with my right (dominant) hand and then pass the cord to my left hand and pull up. I'm sure that there are other techniques, but this seemed to be quickest, for me. Please email me if you would like to see a demonstration video. Hope this helps!

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Kiwami North America
http://www.kiwamitri.com
brad@kiwamitri.com
http://www.facebook/kiwamitriusa

I wonder if ITU suits will have that now...good idea actually. If you're into SS suits, maybe it would be useful for long course ITU worlds or nationals, etc. The skin cancer rates have shot through the roof & the long distance athletes seem to like them a lot. This swim skin looks pretty nice, although I question the testing protocol.

Andre, 80% RPE can be so random. Why not a distance set all out? I can have a cup of coffee & my 80% RPE is way different than if I do not have a cup (or two) of coffee. Stuff just feels so easy with coffee than without...not to mention you have to watch what you're doing the day before to ensure you're not taxed from whatever you did a day out (like a long run or weights). I'd do two tests, different days. One with a brief & one with the suit, multiple people, over a long distance. 100s aren't really going to tell you a lot for distance athletes, we don't race 100s. I want to know results over the long haul of your typical triathlon (750 m, 1500, 2K or 4K).

I continue posting my 400m times to compare the speed between a speedo and a swimskin:

Dec 5,16 speedo--------8'14"
Dec 10,16 speedo--------8'32"
Dec 18,16 speedo--------8'10"
Dec 20,16 speedo--------8'16"
Feb 4,17 speedo--------8'22"
Feb 8,17 speedo--------8'08" (after leg shave)
Feb 11,17 swimskin--------7'55"
Feb 13,17 swimskin--------7'51"
Feb 18,17 speedo--------8'07"
Feb 21,17 speedo--------8'01"
Feb 23,17 speedo--------8'04"
Feb 28,17 speedo--------7'52" (hooray, first time this season under 8)
March 1,17 speedo--------8'06"
March 6,17 speedo--------7'43"
March 13,17 speedo--------7'55"
March 22,17 speedo--------7'50"
March 26,17 speedo--------7'49"
April 3, 17 swimskin--------7'40"
April 4, 17 swimskin--------7'29"

There seems indeed to be a trend that the swimskin is 15s faster than a speedo for me.

I appreciate you doing this but your times are wildly inconsistent so I'm not sure how much we can learn from them other than the swimskin is faster than a speedo. You really need to be coming in within a couple of seconds on these 400s to give confidence that you're swimming the same effort across all of them.

You have to be testing the same suits at least on the same day. As it stands you aren't even attempting to control for daily fatigue and variance. Also, are you wearing a trisuit underneath? You are going to wear a trisuit on race race day correct? Lastly skin is slow. Assuming you have a nice and tight trisuit (u need that for the bike), I would be curious to test that.

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Hey Andre,

sorry to sidetrack the thread, I owe you a review of the jammers that you sent me last year. I hadn't been swimming much over the fall, due to some life events, but I'm back in the water now and I've worn it a few times, but not enough to really get a feel for it.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

You can see a generally improving trend over the season and the swimskin times are significally below that trend, at least to my opinion.

@Thomas Gerlach:
I do my 400m always with the same intensity, let's say at 95%. I tested only with the kiwami. I'm going to race my planned IM with a 2-piece bike wear (Castelli Stealth) which I thus will wear under the kiwami. Of course I will test this too, but I can't see any problems with that, especially because I will still loose a couple of kg until summer.

Sean, Thomas, I can understand if you can not take any conclusions from the data. I just wanted to share it, and as I said, to me there is a clear trend of 15s on 400m (or let's say 10-20 s).

Maybe I will do once a test on one day with e.g. 10 times 200m with alternately swimskin/speedo, but that's a lot of work putting the swimskin off and on ...

Andre, thank you for the details.
In order to eliminate the variables of the swimmers testing, wouldn't Kiwami have better statistical significance if it showed the reduced level of drag? I.e. Similar to aero testing...

So I understand you are just trying to see a trend of improvement, but it would still be helpful to see how much you are varying in the days. If you are doing one 400x95% you should be able to do 4 reps at 95% or even 8 reps a day. Regardless, the important thing is that you test a tightly fitting tri kit that you will be wearing for racing. Skin is slow, we know that. 2 pieces are slow, we know that. If you are really set on a 2-piece then ok but I assume you are doing this testing because you want to go faster?

If so you might want to try getting a snug 1-piece and testing it straight up, versus the suit + the swimskin. Regardless thanks for your n+1 testing.

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  Thanks for taking the time to record all these intervals and to post them.
I believe we all understand it's just numbers based on 1 person and indeed, those times may or may not have been influenced by so many potential outside factors.
So i no way is this a scientific demonstration.

However your results just seem to go in the exact same directions we have observed with other athletes or in our testing.
This just comfort us in our belief the AquaRush is particularly well designed and may help any athlete reduce her/his swim time, among other benefits.

---

Kiwami North America
http://www.kiwamitri.com
http://www.aquamantri.com
contact@kiwamitri.com
http://www.facebook/kiwamitriusa

I understand the point you make here, you're trying to get me out of my Castelli T1 Stealth with shorts into a one-piece suit. I read so much about this stuff and it's confusing to me. If we forget about sanitary stops but if we keep in mind that there must be a certain shoulder flexibility for swimming and that I have to run a marathon in it, how many minutes would I win on the bike if I would have a one-piece suit ? Especially taken into consideration that the Castelli T1 Stealth is generally considered fast. Maybe you can give me some thoughts.

I am not saying you have to wear a sleeved suit, you can wear a sleeveless one-piece. But if you are wearing a sleeved swimskin isn't it already affecting you mobility as-is in the water? Just any fyi, I have a Kiwami medium that I am testing and it is a little restrictive in the shoulder IMHO and this comes from someone who swam in two different LG sleeved suits last year, a Kiwami sleeved suit, Champ Sys Apex sleeve suit, and Cuore sleeved suit. IMHO the Kiwami, LG, and Coure are not restrictive even squeezing into an XS but they are all two piece one pieces, ie, they aren't connected at the front near the waist. The Champ Sys Apex was a little restrictive. The jury is out on sleeved kits on the bike IMO and unless you test them they could actually be slower. Even if you test them in the tunnel, are they faster on race day all rolled up, out of place, stretched out from water, salt build-up??? Without significant testing, my suggestion to people right now is to buy the tightest fitting, sleeveless one-piece they can find.

In regards to porta stops, if you are really talking about an Ironman, honestly, if you spend a few extra seconds on the run taking it down it is probably going to help you if anything. The number one problem with Ironman for the marathon is people think the fastest way to run the marathon is to run it continuously. It is not. Frodeno gets this by walking 5-10 seconds in the aid stations.

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Thanks for your thoughts.
Regarding marathon pauses, I always use the Galloway method: 10 minutes run, 30 seconds walk. Psychologically nice too, these little rests. After 30 km no breaks anymore, because it is difficult to "get going" again then.