I would say that is the end, not the beginning. It's done.

It isn't over until the ITU strips her of her 2014 ITU AG "victory". Still waiting to hear that shoe drop.

I would say that is the end, not the beginning. It's done.

Mark,

Still nothing from Julie Miller herself. Telling that before TriCan released this news, they gave her an opportunity in confidence to appeal, but there was no response.

I seem to recall when all of this peaked a couple of months ago their were rumors/rumbling that Julie Miller was going to launch some form of aggressive defense of her actions. Dan Empfield, was going to give her the opportunity to tell her side of the story, but again . . . . nothing on that front either.

I'm reluctant to give her a platform, but I am intrigued how she pulled this off. There would have had to have been, for each of the races she cheated at, some form of elaborate system to elude detection while at the same time, giving strong indicators that she actually did the race in full. In other words, some pretty detailed thought and planning would have had to go into each race to pull something like this off.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

The lack of response or appeal is rather perplexing given the voracity with which Julie and her supporters came down on any naysayers during the summer. The "bully" dialogue she posted on her Facebook page (before she changed her name and added more privacy controls) certainly speaks to a mindset of denying and refuting the accusations that she cheated, and yet, given the opportunity to appeal to our sport's governing body (in presumably what would have been the fairest and most objective of circumstances), she seems to have chosen not to. I can only hope this is because she is standing down, and not because she is going to deny that Tri Canada ever contacted her.

For all of the athletes that were unfairly treated because of her behaviour, the ban from Tri Canada goes a long way to restoring and promoting fairness in the sport. I appreciate that Tri Canada (and Tri BC, for that matter) took this seriously, took the time to review her conduct, and dealt with the matter in what seems to be a judicious and fair manner.

the correct response is, "sure, they said 2 years .... but she will probably cut it short"

2years is only 14 mos. Canadian, anyways.

touche'
that's way better. stoopid metric system

Maybe she will get a slot on Oprah to tell us all how she did it?

I can see how having a common unit of measure for distance, length, etc would be confusing.

1km = 1000M = 100,000cm = 1,000,000mm

1Mile = 1,760 Yards = 5,280 feet= 63,360 inches

Try that with international currencies, now. :)

I would imagine she will say something to the effect of "why bother fighting when everyone is against you"? Or "why fight the big nasty triathlon Canada?"
She has an excuse as to why she didn't bother. 100% guaranteed.

***WINNER***

The sad part isn't that she has excuses for you or me...the sad part is that she's using these excuses on her friends and family. The people that actually have to live with her on a daily basis...knowing that she's basically spinning a big lie in front of their faces. One day her kids will grow up and figure this whole thing out.

Are AG results online anywhere? I can't find them. IIRC Chicago was 4 bike loops with an out and back on each loop, and 4.5 run loops. Real easy to cut that course.

She is still listed at #1 F40-44. http://www.triathlon.org/...championships/267371

In the old thread Dan said he heard from Julie Miller's representatives, in the form of lawyers. That's why the older thread was locked down and the one that followed that had certain rules the posters had to followed. Dan mentioned/alluded to spending money to defend ST.

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__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

I did not follow that other thread(s) all that closely but it's sad if true that Dan had to spend money lawyers were involved. While I don't promote getting lawyers involved unless necessary I would say too bad to her should some be serving her for the damages/costs she caused to others.

Do we need to start a Slowtwitch defense fund?

Maybe that should be "defence fund" being that it's a
Canadian thing.

---

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

yes, i incurred legal fees. however, at the slowtwitch party in kona there were a lot of canadians there, and they all made a point of coming up to me and commenting on how they appreciated the moderation of this topic: to allow people to comment, but to disallow a lynch mob solely for the sport of the participants, at someone's expense, regardless of the deeds of the object.

to that end, i'd like to make sure this discussion threads that line. as to the WC result which still stands, there's an OpEd on the front page to that point (along with our coverage article on the ban itself).

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Or, maybe a very simple system. Step off the course for about the time it would have taken you to complete the skipped segment, pretend to stretch or just rest, then start up going the opposite direction. The splits are about right, and with so many people on the course, who is going to notice? Even if you had a competitor that was trying to watch for you, they could assume they missed you in the crowd. (I saw this happen several times at a race a few years back; people step off the course prior to the middle of an out/back, "stretch", then resume in the wrong direction.)

Unless the timing companies take it upon themselves to use video verification for every person who "misses" a timing mat, this is bound to happen. The fact that it did happen says there is not always the level of verification required to insure fair racing.

---

2015 USAT Long Course National Champion (M50-54)

There are two types of countries in the world.....those that use the metric system and those that have landed on the moon.

Just sayin'.....

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

As a scientist/engineer/researcher/math dork, the metric system is undoubtedly a better/tighter solution. I don't mind the lack of a base 10, but the inconsistency in unit is what really pisses me off (pound force, pound mass, slug, etc., what is that BS!).

That said, it is hard to turn an oil tanker. The State of Alabama went metric in the 90s, it was bad (especially for first responders on the interstate trying to find accidents using mile/km markers). Louisiana made an attempt as well and the people actually doing the work (not the engineers or designers, but the contractors) experienced some real problems.

3.281 feet per meter and 3.2808 feet per meter turn out to be much different when your project is 15,000 feet long.

Anyway, it is fun to talk about, and if you have a technical education, you are nearly guaranteed to become proficient in both prior to leaving university (because if you go design roads, you will be in the Imperial system but if you go design jets and cars, you will likely be in metric).

---

Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

One of the few (possibly only?) advantages of the imperial system is that you can always divide a measurement in half.....which may sound kinda trite until you are doing some woodworking project and need to halve some random measurement. With the metric system, you can't always do that.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

For example.....

Can you imagine living with that? Kookoo.

So, does this stop her from racing in the US? Sign up for IMLP, skip a few sections and she's on her way to Kona. Great!

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---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

At least for jets, you will still be using lots of imperial. For sure you will also be using knots.

I am not super knowledgeable on that topic, I only have close contact with one aeronautics type (doing machine fiber placement in aero and space applications). I think they are all metric on the parts, but I know I hear them talk about "mils" for certain thicknesses. It would just make too much sense for mils to be millimeters . . . I believe that a mil is 1000ths of inch.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

How did this thread get hijacked in to a debate over the Metric system? I thought we were discussing a busted cheater.

It is interesting as I can't from memory recall any "code of conduct" bans which are sweeping and imposed by an NGB like TriCan. At least none that are two years in length, IIRC phelp's ban was also a "conduct" ban but only 3 months (6 months?)

My thoughts are that at least within the sport of triathlon other NGB's will respect this, will be interesting to see if she races the test of metal next year.

Maurice

Sweeney wrote:

So, does this stop her from racing in the US? Sign up for IMLP, skip a few sections and she's on her way to Kona. Great!

She can't do Ironman events.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ds_Athlete_5326.html

Yes it's really hard to go from 100m to 50m or from 100ml to 500ml or from 100cm to 50cm etc . . :)

But what does this have to do with the Julie Miller situation?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Maybe she thought it was a metric Ironman? 2.4km swim, 112km bike, 26.2km run? Understandable mistake, actually.

Well skipping one loop is close to 2.4k the. Way the course is designed and then skip 70k off the. Pemberton out and back (you would need to turn back before arriving in Pemberton) and on the run skip the far end out and back after the second lost lake loop and you might just have the Whistler meteric edition.

Fairly certain we never will. Silence speaks volumes, and I think she's moved on (while staunchly maintaining that she did nothing wrong).

That would imply that she could do them in the first place. All evidence points to her being incapable of actually finishing the full distance

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Swim. Overbike. Walk.

Maybe she should be introduced to "Mirror Man"

A match made in heaven?

I'm guessing her lawyer has advised her to keep quiet.

 
http://www.vancouversun.com/...html?__lsa=d200-5cd6

Seems she isn't keeping entirely quiet:

http://www.vancouversun.com/...tory.html?rel=917166

From the Vancouver Sun today...


Miller maintained her innocence in the matter.
“Triathlon Canada’s decision is based on previous anecdotal and inaccurate information — there’s nothing new here,” she said in an email to The Vancouver Sun.
“I was contacted three days before the review and given 72 hours to defend myself. I have young children and a full-time job as well as my volunteer commitments, so this wasn’t fair or realistic.
“Most importantly, I did not cheat and stand by my original statement.”
In Miller’s original release — made in October — she maintained she lost her timing chips and that was ultimately the only reason for her disqualification.
“I wish I knew what happened to my timing chip during the Ironman event so there would be a reliable record of my race activity,” she said in the statement.
“Technology has bitten most of us at least once or twice, and usually at the worst possible time. This was one of those times. I’ve paid the price for that, in being disqualified and for not having a functioning chip at the finish.”
Miller says she plans to continue to train “daily for future events” and that she will make no further comments on the matter going forward.

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______________________________________________
Team Zoot

She says 3 days, Triathlon Canada said she was given 15. Ummm?

Umm.. Forgive me, but, what did she do ?

The reason there are 12 inches and 12 in a dozen is because you can get a half, a third and a quarter in whole numbers. And with 60 (seconds, minutes) you can also get a fifth.

12 simply has more utility than 10.

Julie Miller, geez, her level of denial is unsurprising but still, wow.

If you read the article on the main page, there are 3 related articles linked at the bottom. Reading all 4 gives you a pretty clear idea.

So inevitably they'll be making a movie about Julie Miller, who should player her? I'm think Rosie O'donnell?

I am not a big fan of the ban or being stripped. It's punishment rhetoric and lots of people are ready to pile on obviously.
What's the purpose or logic? Our events are so damn good that you'll suffer banned? So she won't have a chance to cheat again?

I would say yeah welcome to compete, volunteer, love to see you at the start line for the race and for good times - just not for podium awards until 2 year "clean" track record is established.

Sport should about about inclusion, redemption, make mistakes and fix them - at least at the amatuer level. imo.

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

make mistakes? sure...you get misdirected on course... totally understandable... her blatant cheating.. not so much...

Personally I think if you're caught cheating you should be banned for life... guess i just have a soft spot for those that don't cheat...

Julie? Is that really you?

Yes it's me. I'm a Canadian country bumpkin on the outside lookin' in :)

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

She had the chance at redemption when she was first accused of cheating. She could have come clean, apologised.given back all her sponsorship money and products and perhaps people would have been more forgiving. But she didn't come clean. She got a lawyer and then denied what was blatantly obvious. Perhaps there are some cheats out there deserving of redemption, she is not one of them.

Engineering jobs I've worked have banned the term "mil." At one there was a jar, you had to put a quarter in if you said it. And the reason was precisely that ambiguity--it could be .001 inch it could be 1mm. Pretty big difference.

+1

Even with the appeal she seems to come up short !

Looks like there is a pattern...

From what I've read, it seems as though Triathlon Canada told Julie Miller that they were reviewing her results from the 3 races and gave her 72 hours to provide an explanation, which she duly did (according to the quotes in the Vancouver Sun article above). Taking into account JM's defence, TriCan said "We're not buying any of that bullshit, DQs and a 2-year ban. You have 15 days to appeal if you wish". After 15 days had elapsed with no word from the JM camp, TriCan made the ban official and released the decision to the public.

She could have released her garmin/polar data and be done with this issue....but that has not happened. I see that more that 90% of athletes train and race with some type of gps device which seems like her case looking at some of her pics.

I suspect there might have been a problem with her Garmin's GPS chip too...

Honestly, I actually have much more respect for dopers than I do for course cutters. Lifetime ban is what should be given. At least the dopers complete the course.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Someone should create a thread called "Pretended to complete an Ironman... Others peoples condescending remarks"

Not really. The rest of the world managed to turn it just fine.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I change my mind, she should not be banned for life. She should invited back to Ironman Canada. She can do the entire course with an escort. If she puts up a time that's even in the ballpark of her finish this year then shes off the hook.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

how can she possibly find the time to train for that sort of thing....two kids...job....blah blah blah

Agreed--lifetime ban for cheaters with some type of parole process for reinstatement after some appropriate period of time and with admittance of guilt, etc....

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Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

I like how she makes an effort to mention her "volunteer commitments". Because she's a really good person and everybody else is a baddie. I hate the victim bullshit these cheater types always go for. They think everybody is dumb enough to believe it, which is an insult to our intelligence.

72 hours is plenty of time, if she actually had anything to back it up. She couldn't find 5 minutes to make a phone call to ask for more time? I call bullshit. I'm no master of time management, but that's just weak. If you've got something this important in your life that comes up, you can find time to fix it, or at least a few minutes for a status update. If the police knock at my door because I am suspected of wrongdoing, you can bet I'll be making time for them. "Uhh, sorry, officer, but I gotta run - got volunteer commitments, y'know!" If my furnace goes out, it will get fixed. Maybe I gotta rearrange the schedule a bit, but it will get done if it's important enough.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Taking a page from the Mike Rossi/Lets Run people?

It would not surprise me if they used a bunch of metric, since lots of their fibers could come from Japan and the fibers themselves would be measured in metric. But the final parts that are made with that tooling could very well be designed in imperial units. Trust me, I have worked on parts for Airbus and most of our engineer was in imperial for those parts (really it is not hard to go back and forth for most measurements).

Cars are even funnier. We measure the power with horsepower (non-metric), but the capacity in metric (liters). Hell England still use miles per gallon (but a different sized gallon to the US) to measure fuel economy. Most countries are not full metric, it is a sliding scale.

Pretty much. You know that the cheater will never agree to it.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

And it isn't like the ban caught her completely by surprise. Or maybe it did. Maybe she hasn't noticed anything at all about all of the people looking into her results, what with all the volunteer work.

As you mention, I am sure that if she had contacted them and said I need more time to appeal there was some leeway there.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I'm guessing that she can still appeal it, if she has the evidence to support her side of the case. Bans do get overturned, on occasion.

I doubt she has the evidence though.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

She had time to respond to the Vancouver Sun, but no time to respond to Triathlon Canada? 3-Days/15-days, all it would have taken was one phone call or eMail to TriCan about an appeal. I can't speak for them, but I am guessing they would have been flexible with their time-lines on this given the gravity of the matter, but it was all silence.

My understanding is Dan did reach out to her (He said so in one of the previous threads). Now I'm respectful of the journalist privilege of confidentiality ( Dan does not have to tell us if he ever made contact with her, or even what was said if a conversation took place), but we heard nothing about that either.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Deflection, pure and simple. Easier to fight the process than it is to fight the charges directly.

As long as that person isn't a twin sister...

AFAIK, the twin isn't a triathlete so go ahead and let her try...

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Y'know, the "Cheater's Redemption Bounty," or whatever we want to call it...this could be a viable business...not too far off from Hole-in-One insurance and the like...

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

72 hours sounds like a really long volunteer shift !!! (pink pink pink). Maybe she was a volunteer with the Canadian govt at our refugee processing centers Beirut Lebanon or in Amman Jordan to process Syrian refugees and was too busy doing humanitarian stuff...I don't know...

If I was Julie Miller's cousin or something...I would totally pony up and buy her a 920xt for Christmas...then watch her open it. When she looks back at me...

I guess she expanded her quote a bit for the local Squamish paper. Really good to know she loves fair competition.

On Monday, Miller sent a brief statement to The Squamish Chief via email.
“Triathlon Canada’s decision is based on previous anecdotal and inaccurate information – there’s nothing new here. I was contacted three days before the review and given 72 hours to defend myself. I have young children and a full-time job as well as my volunteer commitments, so this wasn’t fair or realistic,” said Miller.
“Most importantly, I did not cheat and stand by my original statement. I continue to love sport and the joy of fair competition with myself and others, and I am training daily for future events. This has been an extremely difficult, unfair and emotional time for me and my family,and we are looking forward so, respectfully, I won’t be commenting any further.”
- See more at: http://www.squamishchief.com/...sthash.ytbIgC52.dpuf

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______________________________________________
Team Zoot

Well, she did have a fair competition with herself, they both went the same distance of course they were pretty evenly matched. Maybe that is even the fairest competition of them all, same equipment, same time to train, same genetics, etc.

Not. I'd much rather halve 65.2 cm than 25 11/16 inches. Which is easier to do in your head?

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king of the road says you move too slow
KING OF THE ROAD SAYS YOU MOVE TOO SLOW

Nice op-ed btw. I would look forward to the follow up if ITU fails to DQ her from the Weihai results!

Do we know when the next ITU Board Metting takes place? Do we assume that is when they will make their deccision or could they still be investigating?

Yes that is true and believes in her heart that her competition was equal to that of everyone else. That's the crux of it. It's completely delusional of course. But I figure to do something so bizarre (course cutting) you have to have a mental flaw of size you can drive a truck through. Ground zero you have to be able to sell yourself on manufactured truth in the first place, believe it without reservatoin to then make public statements, and convince others that it was all done legit.

I did look up "delusional disorder" - seems to fit the case imo.

The only way to end the fantasy based on the house of lost chips, is go back in (like taking a diver who has deompression sickness back down) and race - but for real.

I have this saying is slalom waterskiing, you can talk all day long about this and that, but the slalom course does not lie. In this case, the race course will present the truth. End of delusion.

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

"Do we know when the next ITU Board Metting takes place? Do we assume that is when they will make their deccision or could they still be investigating?"

on the 9th of september, they wrote back to me it, "is under review and will go to the technical committee." on sept 29, "Technical Committee discussed it in Chicago and all agreed that further investigation is required to draw any conclusion."

since then, i don't know. i've sent 2 emails to the ITU since then, one on the 22nd of October (on another topic), and one yesterday morning, no answer to either. maybe i've worn out my welcome.

look, there's a lot of ballast weighting this issue, and the issue is not julie miller. the issue, to me, is whether the ITU and its daughter federations are now so wholly involved in olympic racing, olympic development, getting new events into the games, getting into the winter games, that it just can't spend any time, doesn't care about, AG racing. if so, then we need to know this, and either force a change or race other races.

neither USA Triathlon nor the ITU likes it very much when i talk like this, because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, they know they are heavily reliant on AG money. but AG racing is just a big distraction, especially to the ITU, because it isn't funded by AG racing. however, it's daughter federations are, and the RDs who put on their WCS and world cup races - and pay that elite prize purse - are. so AG racers are a necessary evil for the ITU.

unfortunately every now and then they have to pay attention to AG racing, such as now, and i'm the big asshole because i'm bringing this up. what the ITU doesn't understand is that if i didn't bring it up, people would lose faith in the federation system, and the ITU wouldn't know it until it's too late and all of a sudden they're overseeing modern pentathlon.

so, by forcing the ITU to look at this, and take it seriously, and do the right thing, i'm actually helping the ITU to be a proper custodian, which in the long run helps its overall olympic mission. but i doubt it sees it that way. rather, it's going to eventually make some kind of decision and say, "see, dan, we were working on this all along, you didn't need to throw a tantrum, you're just impatient and impolitic." and i'll say, "yeah, i guess so. i should've just trusted y'all's judgment." and all will be well.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

They sound like democrats.

(sorry)

"I have this saying is slalom waterskiing, you can talk all day long about this and that, but the slalom course does not lie. In this case, the race course will present the truth. End of delusion."

I'm not sure if you meant this to be ironic or not but... funny saying for the situation considering this guy:


http://www.goode.com/images/Michaelscheats.pdf


J

hey, who is it that holds up legislation? i feel your pain. just, you can't have it both ways.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

that is some heavy duty doodie right there
thanks Dan

You say that like it's a bad thing? :)

(I'm mostly......kidding....and I'm done. No harm intended)

Dan, ITU and Age group racing is like any other federation in the Olympic and their feeder grassroot system. See my comment on the front page article. ITU and most federations don't care about the bottom layers of the pyramid other than they need their existence to keep the elite top of the pyramid healthy, but they would much rather that someone else took care of the bottom layers of the pyramid. But they need to the bottom layers of the pyramid to create the next champions and they need it for overall numbers to get their respective governments to fund etc etc etc. It's like CEO's of corporatings C level execs and boards of directors. They just need employees to reach the overall goals in terms of revenue and EPS but by definition employees are a resource, like capital, inventory, property plant and equipment to get there. I think everyone needs to understand how these things work in the world and just accept that the likes of the ITU only need age group racing as a resource to pad numbers and revenue but they are not important for the core goals of the ITU. So as such I would rather give my money to the Ironman corporation guys (be it Providence Equity or Dalian Wanda) because I know I will get decent customer service and I know up front where my money is going to. I am totally OK with someone making money if they give me customer service and I am totally OK with being a slave to my company entity and help the shareholders and C level guys rich. That's how it works. I just don't like being "used" for fake reasons. ITU is not really up front with us.

That point about them eventually managing something like modern pentathlon is not that far off from the truth. If I talk to the teenagers who I used to coach exactly zero aspire to draft legal triathlon. They all want to build to half or full IM at some point (even though I discourage them). If I talk to adults exactly zero aspire to draft legal triathlon (maybe I am talking to the wrong women and men but I think I am talking to the 97 percentile group). So at best ITU is managing a small number of racers on a variant of our sport that age groupers happen to watch but don't do and don't care that much about, at worst they are managing a sport that has dynamics more close to modern pentathlon (just an elite circuit) than to draft free amateur and pro triathlon.

I think draft legal AG triathlon is great.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Sorry Dan, you are not the only person USAT thinks is a big asshole. I keep pushing on I think their 30% rule is a joke. I keep asking for their written justification that the AG committee did and gave to the board. Nothing! I keep pushing that USAT is reducing the TeamUSA size is a joke, and actually goes against the ITU needing these federation teams being as large as possible for the money we bring to the race. Without us, there is NO world elite races, period.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I know I or anyone can look up the details, but it seems bizarre for an organization to post news like this without actually saying what the athlete did in the same message.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

They said it in the first sentence ... "Triathlon Canada’s Disciplinary Committee has determined sanctions against member, Ms. Julie Miller, for breach of Triathlon Canada’s Code of Conduct."

The NFL does the same when they sanction an athlete. For example, When Ray Rice beat up his girlfriend, the NFL didn't release a press release saying that they were suspending him for beating his girlfriend. Instead, they said the same thing ... violating the leagues' code of conduct.

When Major League Baseball suspends someone for doping, they don't say that the suspension is because the athlete took EPO, cocaine, or whatever. They just say something like the athlete was suspended for violating the league's drug policy.

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__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

Again, that's bad communication. It may be common, but it's not good. Communication is about conveying understanding, and that's not enough info to be meaningful to readers. It's pro forma.

PS - here is MLB saying, in a round-about way, the drugs someone was suspended for:
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/55963420/

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http://www.jt10000.com/

I don't disagree with you that they should state what the infraction was, but I think their language is the norm. It probably has to do with privacy issues and protecting themselves from potential lawsuits.

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__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

There is no "probably" about this. Have you ever had to fire someone? Be as generic and nonspecific as possible. Those who care already know the why, those who don't care....don't care.

Well since the evidence isn't new, she should have had plenty of time to mount a defense. I agree, finding 5 minutes to make a phone call to ask for an extension isn't hard to do.

It's still BS. She can train daily but not make a phone call to prevent a 3 year ban on competing? How stupid does she think we all are?

I'm never lost a chip ever in almost 20 years of racing. If I had, I would have noticed it immediately and gotten a replacement in transition or at least let a course marshal know...specifically for this reason. I also had a good relationship with my fellow races, I'd have witnesses and they would vouch for me, not turn on me. Total crap.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

She just has really bad luck with chips. Why do you gotta hate on the habitually unlucky?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Exactly, and Mike Rossi is claiming an 'equipment malfunction' in a 5k this past Saturday. Could happen.

It could. It just seems to happen more often with some people. On a regular basis.

Correct, I was being sarcastic but did not change the font to pink, my bad. I mean how hard is it to put the timing chip around your ankle for a triathlon? Also, most running races now have the chip on the back of your number, how can that malfunction (if that is what he meant by equipment malfunction)?

You've never done a CAT 4/5 Crit have you? Fun, could be one was to describe it.

Instead of "on your left" I'll just be yelling "hold your line!" to all the fish that can't handle a bike. :)

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Did I say CAT crit racing? I have zero desire to do that.

Totally different sport between a draft legal Tri and a crit bike race. I just never understand why so many try to make them the same.
Well maybe that is because they have never done a DL tri, but sure feel they know all about them.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I think it's the athlete's responsibility to maintain their chip. Not using a safety pin is on her.

Plus there are a number of races where she had a Garmin watch on her wrist. Should be easy to email a file.

Fun is the only way to describe it.


The easiest way to spot a Cat 5: they're the "yellers." :)

ah, this is all becoming quite sad. i had assumed that this would be a sobering "rock-bottom" moment for her, and that she'd either come clean publicly or quietly disappear. it seems that she's chosen instead to double (triple?) down on her side of the story, without offering anything to her defense except another explanation that doesn't add up.

it's a shame.

-mike

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I'm sure that in her mind she is the "victim" here

Have you ever done a DL tri with a fast group of athletes all bunched together? Do you seriously think this won't happen at worlds? Put 100 40-44 AG guys on a course within a few minutes and see what happens. For a preview, why don't you watch an itu elite race.

I agree. I lost my chip during a pool swim this past year. By the time I realized it had fallen off I made the decision to leave it behind with the full knowledge that I was in effect forfeiting my official race results. I could have gone back and looked for the chip, especially as it was floating in a 25m pool so I would have been able to find it, but it would have screwed up my race as well as the next wave of racers about to enter the pool. As an athletes its YOUR responsibility to keep hold of your chip and failing this responsibility deserves an official DNF.

Let's not even entertain the idea that she may have lost her chip. She is a habitual chip 'loser'. If you lost it once you'd make damned sure that you never lost it again.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I don't see why she would admit to it now. Just stick with the narrative. Some of her friends and family probably believe it.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Still feel like joking about the republicans holding up legislation? Oh, right, they also "don't intend any harm"...

I see here that Barry Siff is an Executive Board Member of the ITU. Couldn't he at least tell you when the next Board Meeting is to be held so we'll know when they should/could make a decision?

Not sure why I really care this much, except that, like many of us, I want the ITU to do what's right, particularly for Victoria Hill's sake.

It did seem like they took extra steps in Sweden this year (from what I read) to ensure timing was done more professionally than in Weihai, so there's at least that.

New article about this here: http://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/.../Content?oid=2742062 This one actually has comments enabled at the end, so weigh in if you feel like it... My comment in case it gets removed and comments disabled:

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Tony
http://www.triathleteguru.com

I think worlds and other big competive races are the only places you will see big groups. I would bet 95% of races the biggest groups going fast will be 4 people.

Did anybody ever investigate her Test of Metal results? I remember those being kind of fishy, too.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
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Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Unless the timing companies take it upon themselves to use video verification for every person who "misses" a timing mat, this is bound to happen. The fact that it did happen says there is not always the level of verification required to insure fair racing.

I know that some of the larger timing companies, such as Sportstats do take this seriously, and work in cooperation with their race/event clients to help out verifying or nullifying as the case may be, performances based on the evidence and information that they have at hand and they have collected.

However, people who are determined will find a way to game the system. That seems to be the unfortunate reality of it.

In this particular incident, I had the same feeling when I saw the images, that I had when I saw Rosie Ruiz run across the finish line of the Boston Marathon, supposedly in first place. Something did not look right. Ruiz, while she was far from being over-weight, did not have the running form nor build of a world class marathon runner. She also had a slow a lumbering gait, that did not fit in either. I said right then and there, when I was watching the TV coverage - "Something is wrong. She Can't have won". We should not judge people, like that, but in that sort of situation, it's helpful.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Still nothing from ITU? Presumably if not, there likely never will be.

i'll send a ping over, and see where they are on this.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

slowman, have you reached out to barry siff directly? he is on the exec board and surely he can state exactly where itu sits with this. he will either answer or not. i think your earlier notion - age groupers as necessary evil- is spot on, thus no response will be forthcoming. my nickel says nothing ever happens at the higher level on this case.

How long does it take to invalidate a result that is a complete outlier?! When it has been proven that an athlete is a cheater and cut courses, should it really take ITU this long to invalidate a result? If it was doping, all results during the time the athlete was doping would be invalidated, should course cutting be any different? I know Julie has been exposed in the NY Times and maybe some people feel that she has "gotten her due punishment". But there are still athletes who have not gotten their rightful placement in ITU Worlds. Have you heard anything Dan?

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Tony
http://www.triathleteguru.com

I'm guessing it's some combination of the following:

-The ITU really doesn't care that much about the AG results.

-They don't think they have a case that would stand up at CAS.

-They don't want to offend the Chinese.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

i would also add that the ITU probably wants to err on the side of caution, and there's still no 'smoking gun' for miller. it might seem 'obvious' that she cheated, but the ITU (or their lawyers) probably want something more solid. doping is relatively easy, since they can simply say that the blood work presented values that are outside of the range for X - there's no judgement involved.

-mike

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

ITU are still following up. They spoke to the second place getter recently and word is the DQ will be forthcoming. Who knows why it is taking so long.

I wonder if friends and family members still believe she didn't cheat.

Might have to email the Canadian trailrunning association and let her know all about Julie Miller! Taken this month

I think they care, worlds is a big money maker for them and being soft on cheating isn't a good way to get a bunch of people racing. I think it has more to do with priorities.

Getting ready for the Olympics and running their normal World Series Vs some ransom age group cheat.

Which is why they should have put this to bed months ago!

 

Image isn't displayed... Did she run a trail race?

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Tony
http://www.triathleteguru.com

Well, some of it anyway.

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float , hammer , and jog

Thanks for the update! Good to know that they are at least working on it...

I'm feeling pretty bad now for bumping this thread back to the front page, apparently this has been an "unfair and emotional time" for Julie Miller! I guess out of everyone, she should know what is fair and what isn't!
http://www.squamishchief.com/news/local-news/unfair-and-emotional-time-julie-miller-says-1.2235589

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Tony
http://www.triathleteguru.com

The image is working for me, it's Julie Miller finishing the Barkley Marathon

for the third time.

if that's true she would be the first female to finish much less three times.

IIRC the Netflix movie was from the 2012 race and there had been no female finishers up and until then.

edit: there has only been one person finish 3 times and it was a male http://www.runnersworld.com/...-one-person-finishes

Best answer yet!
But did she?
She's got gall that is for sure. There is a video now the NYT author received showing proof that she never did a second lap.

are you still talking about Barkleys? If so, runners also have to prove they completed a loop as there are check points (you have to tear from a book placed there the page # corresponding to your race number and turn these in when you complete a loop).

It's a good thing they give you a new number at the start of each loop. It would suck to get to the first book for the second time and not be able to find your page.

Well you see, she's a cheater - she;s lost her chip in four races or whatever
The Barkley is an outrageously hard race that almost no one finishes
So the juxtaposition of a known cheater with the claim of finishing a very hard ...
when you have to explain them, jokes are never funny.

This will make you throw up in your mouth a little: http://www.squamishchief.com/...he-scandal-1.2234794

Wow, lemmings will all go off the cliff together.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Like anyone with a problem, progression must first be found in it's admission. You can't expect or accept a second chance when you deny that your first chance was misused.

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It was a pic of her doing a trail run from her Facebook, not sure if it's a race though.

Interesting. They mention that her deception is not relevant to her job as a guidance counselor, simply because she is good at her job, which is ridiculous. It doesn't matter that she is capable of providing good guidance to young people, it's not about how good she is at her job, the issue is with her integrity, credibility, honesty and trustworthiness. You need those qualities to work as a guidance counselor. She has none of those qualities. I have a certain amount of pity for her, but that is somewhat mitigated because of her willingness in the past to screw people over and her continual denial of what is blatantly obvious. She had an out, own up, admit she cheated, her ban would have been shorter and people would have forgiven/forgotten her. There's no way she would have made the NYT if she had admitted to cheating. It's mystifying as the Julie Miller story grew, that none of her family and close friends pushed her to come forward with the truth. Perhaps they did, but I doubt it.

WTF is Quest University ?!?
Sounds like some BS strip mall uncertified "University" you pay for a degree run by people with lower morals then Miller herself.
Article probably written by Miller herself under an alias or by her just as delusional BF.

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"There may be men that can beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it." Steve Prefontane

Editor’s note: Zach Kershman is a student at Quest University, co-editor of the campus newspaper The Mark and a counselling patient of Julie Miller’s."

Yep

Well I was going to slam it but decided to see if there is any reality there and found this:

http://www.questu.ca/about.html

This is no U of Toronto, Waterloo, Queens U or UBC though.Tuition is $32K which is super high for a Canadian University. They do have an interesting elite athlete development program. Squamish sounds like a good place for that.

http://www.questu.ca/...formers-gallery.html

That's fine, as long as they legitimately complete the route and cross all the Rossi Mats

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

i have no particular skin in this game, but quest is actually a serious accredited institution and generally well-respected. canada's first private, liberal arts-type university. lots of things wrong with the miller story, but this ain't one of them . . .

-mike

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/