There is nothing wrong with asking the RD if the bike split was ligit and confirmed via timing or something. It's all about how you approach it. If you ask nicely without suggesting that he cheated, the RD might look into it and give you a fair answer, and will probably act if something looks suspicious. If you start throwing accusing immediately you will come across as a douche.

But I don't see why it would be wrong to ask nicely!

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_____________________
Don't forget to attack!

What was his run split? That is quick but not out of the realm of possible for a 6 mile TT. Curious what his bike setup was... Look him up on athlinks or whatever and see if you can find some other other results that suggest he's capable of such a bike split.

Thanks, I think this is a good idea. I definitely wouldn't want to accuse anyone of anything

Ask the RD if you want, but what are you really asking for? The 2d place medal? Changing the results online that no one but you will ever look at?

Not sure I'd do anything for a local super sprint, but I wouldn't make fun of you for contacting the RD.

However - if it were a question of qualifying for Nationals and there was an actual consequence by dropping you out of the top 10% (and you wanted to go) then you should definitely ask

His run split was 16:42. Only thing I found on Athlinks was 70.3 San Juan this year @ 2:54. Which is way better than my HIM PR, so who am I to talk. But 33MPH just seems crazy fast to me

Yeah, if I was a betting man, I would wager he cut the course (whether intentionally or unintentionally). 16:42 for 2 miles after a ride like that?? he must have really over cooked the bike, haha. As the other poster said, unless there's something to be gained by having the results changed, let it go. Congrats on finishing 2nd in your AG.

So, if I understand you correctly, he avg. 19.3 for 56 at San Juan and 33 at your SS? It's possible he had a mechanical or some other issue at San Juan, but I don't think your concern is baseless either.

There is something to be gained. I would move from 3rd to 2nd. And somebody else would rightfully win the AG. And someone who broke the rules, whether intentionally or unintentionally, would be penalized. This is like the pro race in Bahrain. Guys cut the course unknowingly, and they were served penalties. The results changed due to those penalties. It happens.

To put his bike split in perspective, it's a faster pace than won the 2003 Prologue of the TdF (which was only 6.5k). We're talking the best professional bikers on the planet in full doping mode (it's 2003) without a swim or run.

http://en.wikipedia.org/..._Prologue_to_Stage_9


He'd also have beat Cancellara and Wiggins in the 2012 prologue.


Yeah, he missed a lap.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
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They say a bank robber always returns to the scene of the crime. If your investigation leads to a finding of an irregularity, but a level plain for your age group next year, you've done future athletes a favor.

I agree with the other posters in that the answer is obtained "for the greater good," not so you can get a 2nd place medal. You're 2nd place already in your heart, log book and on Slowtwitch. Places where it counts.

John

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John H. Post, III, MD
Orthopedic Surgeon
Charlottesville, VA

I didn't realize your super sprint had a $500,000 prize purse. In light of this, yes I would most certainly raise my concerns with the RD.

Unless there's no turns, downhill from T1, uphill finish to T2, slightly wind aided, no way. He'd have to average 35mph at least to factor in acceleration and de-acceleration.

I'm pretty damn aero and 35mph I'm pretty sure is over VO2max for me and for 11 minutes, best you be able to run off of is 115%.... maybe. 115%, I'm at around 32mph I think. Those next 3 mph will take a lot more power!!!

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Is the total time for the race in line with his other results?
A timing company in our area is well known for having the wrong splits but the OA time is normally correct. At one race they had me listed as "running " a 4:53 pace at a race. I'm a 50+ female.

Naw, not possible. That would be a pro level performance and he would be well known in the area as an amazing time trialist.

If it means something to you, send it in. I wouldn't worry about it though.

He should have known that he missed a loop. Maybe it was an honest mistake but he didn't
make it right by fessing up. He's a douche canoe for not coming forth. Yes, I'm going to use douche
canoe every chance I get from now on.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

I'm seeing no mention of this from before this week. I'm way out of touch.

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Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I'd say something.....you put in the time and effort.

FLAG IT

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_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand

Anyone who can bike at 33 mph for more than a couple of minutes on the flat without a big tailwind must have some issues if they can't do better than an 8:21 pace for a 2-mile run.

Could be several things, as already discussed. Maybe he really struggles with his running. Or he accidentally missed a lap. Or he skipped one lap on purpose. Or the timing was bad. In any case, it wouldn't be a big deal for me, but you may have other concerns.

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

It was a super sprint pool tri. Even 23 mph is almost suspicious let alone 33. Why is this even a thread? Just email the RD and the timing company and they'll fix it - or they're the ones paddling douche canoes.

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Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.asia | sylvan@sportstats.asia | Starvas

Event Power race at Eisenhower Park in East Meadow, NY yesterday???

I was a bike safety marshal. I'm also a pretty good biker, and there was no one there yesterday that could do 33 mph average on that course. I suppose it's possible that someone holding a pro card could do it, but between the turns, the sand, and the road conditions, not to mention the parking lot in and out section you would be risking your safety and everyone else's trying to pull it off.

The question really is, why do you care? That race was originally a Try-a-Tri event that has slowly morphed into what it is today - a well run beginners race.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

Yes, it was that race.

Why do I care? This is tough to answer because obviously I want the race to be fair and I want to know that the organizers are paying attention to things like that and trying to put on a fair, well run race (which I think they already do). These races are expensive, even a pool sprint and I want to know that the money is working towards the best race possible. At the same time, I don't want to be that guy. But also at the same time, if I legitimately came in second, I want to know! As I'm sure the guy who should have won would. I know it seems ridiculous but I don't get much success in this sport and when I do it feels good and keeps me motivated to train and get better.

I agree that it's a well run beginners race, it was the first race I ever did, but let's be real here...there are a large number of people at this race who are not beginners. They are seasoned vets who come to race hard and test their off season fitness. And even if it was a beginners race, so what? That means that it shouldn't be held to a high standard where the rules are followed and when they're not people aren't penalized? That would discredit this race, which I don't want to do and I'm sure the organizers don't want to do.

Why do you care that he cares? He cares because it directly effected him, you had to go out of your way to be effected by this.

Like others I wouldn't do anything. Actually I would go for a run.

Thank you ajthomas and I respect that you wouldn't do anything. Still not sure if I will or not.

I looked at the results. I also noticed a guy in the 45-49 age group with a 8:49 bike time. He really needs to work
on his swim and run though since he was only able to finish 4th in that age group. His 17:51 run split really hurt
him and kept him off the podium.

---

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

He missed a lap... my guess and with the race organization I work with, the timers catch these things and will adjust hopefully before the awards. Super fast bike legs, world class 10K times after BOP swims and bikes, etc. If anything it is worth mentioning for process improvement for the organization and their timers.

Affected, and I don't care, he does, and that is misplaced in this race. As for money, seriously? What is the next complaint, that we didn't enforce the drafting rules? That people couldn't hold their lines on the bike? That there was a lot of blocking violations?

This race is so people can experience a triathlon without all the scary first time stuff like the ocean and open roads. It is so people can have fun. It isn't a place for the Slowtwitch mentality. Apparently the OP did understand that.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

Did they give out awards at the end, or did people just go home after they were done and then the results were posted online? Based on post #26, it seems like the winner of your age group was not the only one who skipped a loop. So clearly the RD wasn't paying much attention to the splits.

So hence I'm curious if it was so low key that everyone just went home without any formal awards, or if there was an actual awards where times were posted/announced or anything. If the former, then I can see how it happened - it was so low key that no-one cared - possibly even the guys who skipped a loop (intentionally or unintentionally), but if the latter, then the RD should really pay more attention to the splits if he's going to go to the trouble of timing the race properly.

True story. Way back in the day I did an oly race in Waxahachie, Texas. The bike course was 4 loops of a roughly 10k circuit.

There was middle of the pack female triathlete from a nearby town who I was acquainted with also doing the event.
She ended up doing 3 laps instead of 4 but could not be convinced that she had short cutted the race.

She felt that somehow, in cycling she had gone from an18 mph rider to someone who could come close to breaking an
hour for a 40k, and that was in the early 80s.

It was really sort of funny, she even went out and bought a new bike that was more worthy of her new found cycling
greatness.

---

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

People miss laps by accident, or on purpose, all the time in these races.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with letting the RD know. Many of them will say thank you and correct it, some just don't care and won't respond.

The people questioning why you care are dicks, ignore them.


Email/call the RD, let them know about the suspect time. IF they care they will look into it and make sure the guy isn't a pro cyclist with 1 amputated leg and then fix it.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Who the hell are you to judge me for thinking this race was expensive? You don't know anything about me, especially my financial situation. Any extra money I spend on anything tri related is a big deal for my family. But I love this sport and I have a supportive wife who wants me to spend this money so I can be happy and enjoy myself. Screw you for judging me.

If the RD didn't care about peoples' times he probably wouldn't have paid someone to keep track. And if he cared enough to pay someone, I think it is probably safe to assume he meant for it to be right.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Okay, you don't care. You just have a passionate way of showing your indifference.

This is not some low key local race. It's organized by the biggest race company on Long Island. It's held at a swimming facility that has hosted the Goodwill Games and NCAA D1 national champs. The do give awards out at the end. I missed the awards ceremony because I had to get back home for something so I split immediately after transition opened, but I've done this race 4 other times and they always have an awards ceremony. There was a professional timing company that was able to give splits within 10 minutes of finishing on little print outs, like a receipt you receive at a store. This is very well organized and run.

Thanks JackMott, I appreciate the support.

Based on this, I would certainly email the RD. Also, if it's a sanctioned race, the difference between 2nd and 3rd could be the difference between qualifying for Nationals or not.

It's rather surprising that they would have a timing company that was that well kitted out (the only place I've seen the electronic individual result print outs before was at Nationals), and then fail to spot obvious course violations.

There is a try-a-tri series on the Jersey shore. They don't bother timing the race and tell you if you want your splits then you need to time yourself. There are no awards. This doesn't sound like that.

Had a similar incident at a local tri yesterday. There was only one pro in the race so I wasn't surprised to see him heading for the finish as I started the out and back run. About 5 minutes later I see 2nd place who doesn't look like he should be that far up in the race. The next 8-10 guys are all a lot younger and faster than 2nd place. It's a 3 lap bike so I figure he skipped a lap (happens all the time at this race). When I checked the results I see the winner averaged 24.3 MPH and 2nd place averaged 28.0. No one else was faster than the winner. I dropped a quick email to the race director and they said they would look into it. Even if it was an honest mistake, 2nd place should have realized something was wrong and talked to a race official.

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Gary Mc
Did I mention I did Kona

What race is this? I like to keep tabs on all the pros out there.

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Los Angeles Tri Series #2 at Bonelli Park in San Dimas, Ca. I think the pro was a visiting German named Neef?

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Gary Mc
Did I mention I did Kona

This thread shows that race results matter. Some of you out there don't seem to care, but most of us do care. I couldn't care less about awards, but I check the results from ever race I do. What we see here and in the thread about the woman who cheated in the marathon and in other race cheating threads, including Kona, is that the race management is not doing a good enough job of keeping the race results honest. Maybe they don't want a confrontation, or they just don't care.

Race directors should make it a policy, and announce it before the race, that if you are missing a split for any reason, you get no result. No matter if your chip didn't work, or it fell off, or the dog ate it, you're disqualified. They shouldn't wait for someone to feel like a creep for complaining about getting screwed in the results.

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

I think this is more on the timing company than anything... the RD can address but the timers should have already caught this sort of thing. Seriously 30+MPH average?

These things are DQ's once they are flagged AFAIK in every race I've even seen it called on someone... mistake or not.

As someone who was at the receiving end of someone cutting the course I would say something. I regret to this day that I didn't.

I think if he made a deliberate attempt to cheat then he needs to be pulled up on it irrespective of whether it's the world champs or a community "lets TRYathlon" event.

Well...I just emailed the race company. Let's see what happens

Good for you. You shouldn't have to stand back and accept it, even if the guy didn't cheat and just can't count to three. The timers and the race director don't see these things because they don't look for them, and they don't want to. As it is now, an anomaly in the results doesn't stand out. It shouldn't be too hard for someone to write a program that flags a result that doesn't seam right or that misses a timing mat. There's an opportunity for someone to write a ''correct results'' program here if enough people want it.

If they can give you your results on that little receipt right after the finish line. They can certainly do something to make sure that those results are fair and correct.

I got that results receipt at Kings Park 15k, it was really cool.

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Truth.
Local Pro racer here did a 2.2 TT (silly course, fast and fairly flat) in 4:24. He was going 30 mph and won the field. Someone would be a local hero stomping around @ 33 mph. Word spreads fast on that stuff.

i would have done the same thing....keep us posted on any developments!

I'm pretty sure I was scored in the wrong wave at a bike race last weekend. My time was 3 minutes faster than my Garmin. I hunted down the race director and told him about it, he wrote down my number but I don't think he ever did anything about it. I feel a little guilty about finishing 10th in my age group instead of 13th. I'm sure there will be some guy in my age group stalking this dirty cheater at my next race.

Thanks! They actually got back to me within 20 minutes and said they were going to speak with the timing company. They wanted to hold off sending me my third place award incase things need to change, which means they're willing to make the change if they find enough reason. This made me happy enough. Even if they come back and say they can't do anything, I'll be happy that I tried and I'll know what really happened.

a little off topic...Early 90's I raced motorcycles in Colorado (MRA) small time, but there was some money involved...Major Pros would sometimes make their way to the tracks if they were "coming thru town" and would crush it...Doug Chandler was one of them, he would destroy the field and pit in on the last lap so not to take $$ or points from the local guys...a very classy move.

It's not about you getting 2nd instead of 3rd, because, honestly, no one cares about that except you.

What everyone should care about is some douchebag standing on top of the podium where he doesn't belong. This isn't a first-timer making a mistake. You say he has done a 70.3, so he knows enough to know he didn't win legitimately, and knows he didn't ride over 30 mph. The guy needs to be busted.

Why do I care? Because I was passed by a peloton of 25 riders at a 70.3 on Sunday. I saw them an hour later on the return from the out-and-back, and they were still together. Cheaters piss me off.

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<The Dew Abides>

+1
They way I see it:
1. he accidentally missed a loop, he knows he didn't ride 30mph, he didn't report himself and got on the podium anyway => douchebag
2. he intentionally cut the course => douchebag
3. ?

Anyone that has any time in the saddle would have some inkling of their capabilities. There is no way - I repeat now way that this guy doesn't realize that his 30+ mph course average is a mistake. He should have DQ'd himself if it was an honest mistake.

I heard back from the timing company and they were pleased that I noticed the fast times. They took a day to look over the results and corrected the ones that were clearly bogus and said he submitted the correct times to the RD and USAT. Feels good to know they did the right thing. It's a bonus that I now came in 2nd in my AG.

I agree, and have seen an athlete do that.

The guy in my example was leading the bike and a volunteer told him to take a turn that offered a small short cut. He realized it after the race - but, before the awards were given out, and DQ'd himself. And, this was a guy that probably would have won anyway. No argument, no excuses. (I should have known the course, is what he said).

Class guy. So, good stuff DOES happen.

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

Then there's others that will carry on like they really won the race.

There's a pretty competitive sprint tri in my area that brings out the local/regional top guns. I perused the results after the race one year and noticed the fastest bike split was done by someone in the F45-49 AG. Her average speed was like 2.5 mph faster than the male who won the Elite race and had the fastest bike split. Clearly she cut the course somewhere. Her swim averaged something like 2:30/100m and her run was at 10:00/mile pace. Did not stop her from stepping up to the podium and taking her 1st place medal.

There were lots of kudos on Facebook later... "Awesome bike split!" yada, yada, yada. I was the first to chime in and say that she clearly cut the bike course as there was no way a middle aged female AG'er rode 29 mph for 15 miles. Of course I got piled on as some sort of sexist, male bully (and I'm the least sexist man I know)... until the RD came on to explain she only did about half the bike course and DQ'd her. I was amazed some people thought a 47 year old woman with average at best ability somehow averaged close to 30mph for bike, and got venomous at me for pointing out what I thought was very obvious.

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Last year I trained and traveled to a race where I thought I would meet a very good racer in my age group. I had a great race , he beat me out of the water , I passed him early on the bike, I was having a great race and missed a very small part on the run. I figured it out before I finished. I went to the race director and DQed. my self. It had cost time to train, money to travel , I was just sick But I had to tell.

People are generally stupid and rely way too much on emotion over reason and logic. I am surprised you are still surprised by this.

I just don't get people in general sometimes, it isn't sexist to think this about ANYONE male or female. The numbers don't make any sense at all.

I raced with a guy one time where they bumped him up in the pool start line up and he had a crazy fast swim, bike and he had a silly run split because they didn't factor that in... There were a couple of minutes they adjusted before awards and made him seem a little more believable/human but still an Elite level swimmer and biker... he ran a 15 minute and change 5K. He was a legit runner... passed me and looked like he was jogging. :)

And why not be surprised? Here's another anecdote...

I did a short sprint last summer where I was beat for best bike split by the eventual winner of the race, a 29 year old woman. It's not sexist for me to say I've never been beaten on the bike by a woman before, I just hadn't been until that day. A legit swim and run, and I didn't have any reason to think the bike was fishy until I saw the splits a week or so later. It was a two loop 5mi course with plenty of side roads to cut off a portion, and it was not marshalled by volunteers at every road. It wasn't a superhuman split by any means, it was just an impressive one - 24 mph average speed. I didn't know her name (I know most of the racing folks around here), so I looked her up and found her next best was a 20 mile bike race where she averaged 19 mph. Um, maybe a rough course? In that same race were a few names I recognize that I usually ride ahead of that were riding at ~21mph. Um. Maybe a rough day? Whatever. Shit happens. A couple more found results later I had to stop looking, I realized what I was seeing. Benefit of the doubt given, I assume she trimmed the course without realizing it.

The one time I knew I cut a course (by accident) I asked to be disqualified immediately. I know before I start roughly what my finish time is going to be, and I start asking questions if I finish drastically different and I don't know the reason immediately, but surely not everyone knows their ability to that extent and has no idea how well they are going to do or not ahead of time. It's not over-emotional, unreasonable, or illogical to win a race thinking everything is legit if you don't have any expectations of your result. I think it's entirely reasonable to doubt the 47yo woman from the OP's story knew she cut the course and was doing anything with sinister intent. There are those people for sure (recent St Louis marathon for example), but do they really materialize at local super sprints?? I hope not.

Happened to me over the weekend. Pool swim tri (400ms/16mb/5k). My buddy's 17 yr. old kid, who's a State qualified swimmer and very good CC runner, was seeded #1. I was #48. He goes in pool and swims 1:30 faster than anyone behind him. 4 miles into bike, a train crosses the course (oops, thought all permits were secured). Anyway, kid is out front but no real proof of how long he had to wait on train. Officer says 6 mins., and supposedly no one caught him from behind in that period. Hmmm, fishy. Anyway, I catch and pass him around mile 13 of bike, and he catches me on run but only finishes 15 seconds ahead of me. So prelim results come out and I'm the overall winner. But as time passes, I hear the RD and on-site timer are mulling a change to the results to show the kid as winner because of the bike time stoppage (ghost 6 mins). Long story short, he got the win at the end of the day but the next evening it was changed back to show me as overall winner. The boss timer contacted RD and said the change should have never been allowed...train stoppage just an unfortunate event and the true time could not be proven.

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I remember racing a top guy last year. I look at the race results and see it says he saw a 20, which was impossible. I even asked him to his face and he said he could. Never have his results been close to this.
He started in the wrong wave. Even the timing folks were supporting his cheating. I filled a protest but nothing happened. Then I see the next day his results were magically changed. Anytime I see this AA results,
I just shake my head. Why some top folks need to cheat is something I will never understand.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Glad it worked out for you. Kudos to the RD and timing co. for being reponsive

To be honest, I'd say that in just about every race I've ever done with multiple loops on either the bike or run, there is an obviously suspicious split in the results. I can't think of a time that the results didn't get corrected.

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Formerly DrD

Are you from Houston? Given the quality of the timing company for the majority of our races, this happens more races than not...

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-Andrew

In 1993, I did the swim portion of a relay down in Annapolis. The relay wave was near or at the end. Our cyclist was going very fast and catching the leaders, although a lap down. He was directed home, rather than on his last lap, and so he was short. This startled our runner, as you can understand. We finished first, but we told the RD what had happened.

See the results (last page) for what the RD did about it: http://raceforum.com/archive/93annapolis.pdf

(also look at the overall leaders for some really fast bike splits, especially compared to their relatively poor swim/run splits)

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----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

^this

Generally, in the races i've done with multiple loops, there are always racers with bike or run splits that definitely don't match up with the other portions. They seem to happen in the older age categories too for some reason. Thankfully, the timing officials that are used in my local races are always quick to update the results and the final standings are not affected.

And you guys weren't even the fastest bike split of the relay teams!

Oceanside 2013, a number of guys in my AG, including podium finishers (and folks that commonly finish on the podium in such races) cut a buoy on the swim. I could see a kayaker racing toward that front group (as I swam to the correct one), and expected to see this group turn. They did not. Nor did they DQ themselves. I have no doubt it was a mistake, but still...

maybe he was in such a bad way he couldn't? the IM before my last one I DNF'd. I went straight to medical on lap 2 (of 3) of the run, do not pass go, do not collect $200. I told everyone in medical that i had abandoned (they actually had convinced me to abandon) and after 3 L of IV fluids I limped home. It never even occurred to me to talk to the race management - I ASSumed it was obvious. however, if it had not be caught by the next day and i had noticed it in the results i obviously would have emailed someone.

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