Wow, thanks - timely post. I need to definitely talk about something else other than triathlon related things. Just ordered a new wet suit (Orca Pflex) to combat some recurrent wetsuit hickies and I haven't been videotaped in ages. But, my times are better than ever and each swim (4 races so far this year) has been better than the last.

I'll get right on it...

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____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

My swimming is going well. Maintaining about 15km a week. We here in Michigan have been blessed with warm temperatures, so my last three races were non-wetsuit races. :-)

These guys, http://www.lanegainer.com/halo/, were at a couple races with their HALO Swim Training System. It looked interesting. Have you seen it? Any thougts?

eferand,

The equipment looks pretty cool.

I made my own bench and have stretch cords attached to a wall. I always use a metronome for pace work. I like the idea of reinforcing the high elbow catch and maintaining it throwout the stroke.

Enjoy the rest of your summer. By the way, we have five people from Michigan coming to Curacao in January.

DougStern

Did some video taping this morning. I didn't really get much of a chance to look at the tape before I went to work, but did notice I've got to go a bit wider with my left hand on entry.

And I still do have one of the ugliest functional freestyles out there.

Enjoy your vacation Doug!

---

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

FLA Jill,

Do you have a flinging arm recovery? If so it usually drives across the center line of your body.

DougStern

Tim,

My wife an I are planning a two week bike trip in Vermont near Lake Champlain. My daughter goes to horseback riding camp just outside of Lake Placid. She has to be there on the day of the Ironman race. I usually drive her up there and pull off to the side of the road to watch the bikers go by. This year my son will drive her. He is off to graduate school at U of Texas in Austin. The house will be quiet!

DougStern

My swim times are holding pretty much where they've been, and the opportunity cost of lowering them is too high (top 3% at Eagleman, top 1% at a local sprint). My wetsuit is ~15 years old (bought used), fits like a glove (not too sure how fast the surface is any more, however), and is possibly the best investment I've made in triathlon gear. I've had nobody to draft off of in my two races, but did manage to get pounded at the start in the sprint triathlon.

I try to think about my body position every time I'm in the water; especially at the end of intervals and sets where I try to ensure that I'm completing my stroke and not slipping water on the pull.

My SO and I went to see War of the Worlds a couple of weeks ago, but that doesn't count as a great movie. I cook, so every dinner is a great meal :-)

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

I suspect it ties into breathing and shoulder roll somewhat since it seems most noticable when I'm breathing right side. Will have to go back and look at the tape where I'm breathing every three, as well as the backstroke footage to see if it seems flingy-related (I'm slightly flingy) or if it's originating more in my shoulders/lats.

At one time, I had a major, major crossover problem going on with freestyle and had managed to get a nice wide catch worked out after a good amount of work on it. I don't want any bad habits sneaking back in.

It was also interesting to see just how little kick I looked like I was doing even though I'm actually a decent kicker.

Ken,

Your athletics and life seem to be in a very nice balance!

Take care,

DougStern

Fla Jill,

When you take another look at your video notice how your hand comes out of the water. Are you turning your palm outward or are you releasing it so that your palm turns in slightly. The closer you can get your hand to your body on recover the less reactive it will be.

DougStern

Better than last year but I still refer to it as sinking.
Started tri last year at a friends suggestion. I quickly learned that I really couldn't swim. Been taking a few lessons and am working on getting the stroke and breathing down. Right now I can do one or the other. The big problem seems to be swallowing the air, after a few lengths in the pool I get a puke feeling and need to let out a burp. How do I stop that and get the breathing to work?

Much better since the email way back when. Thx a lot. Went from very low vol. without motivation and consitency to decent weekly vol. with the masters & on my own now (actually it's high for me and pushing 10k/week), still suck but not as badly and I don't sink as much ;-). Starting to feel the water a bit and I'm having fun! Stay cool in NY this summer.

Cheers,

M. En Fuego

---

"In the blocks you're a prisoner, the gun releases you."

There a guy (I think he use to swim at a high level) at a local Uni who has built a swimming machine swim which can measure power output - Everdently he is going out to do a presentation to the Russian swiming federation. I know a few guys who are gong to be involved in tests with it - It will be interesting to here what they think of it.

I am guessing I would measure a minus watts figure which is why I mive backwards through the water!

Misfit4,

Do some one arm swims so that stroke technique is not such a big issue. Breathe on your favorite side at first then do the same on the other side. When you feel more comfortable with your breathing go back to regular swimming.

DougStern

Keep up the good work. Practice positive thoughts. You are an improving triathlete.

dougstern

Doug,

I recently bought hand paddles and fins (ones that you've recommended in previous posts).

I'm a pretty good (top 10% in most races) swimmer, but I've never trained with fins or paddles before.

Any suggestions on how quickly to incorporate them into my workouts (approx. 3500 meters)?

Good to hear from you again!

Dreamer,

Are you using the fulcrum paddles by Finis? If so take off the wrist band and leave only the finger band on. These paddles are great and will not hurt your shoulders. If there is an error in your stroke the paddles will fall off or turn sideways.

I only use fins when I plan to swim fast. They will put in a similar body position as when you have on a wetsuit.

I like to use my paddles in conjunction with the center snorkel. I usually do a swim to between 500 - 1,000 with them.

You can start with a set of 10X 50s kick to get used to the fins or even swim 10X 50s with some rest between repeats.

As your body gets used to the added resistance you can increase the yardage.

Remember - no garbage yardage with fins on. You put them on - move it!

DougStern

Thank you for your posts, even a semi-poster gains alot from your commentary. Thank you.

''It is easy to get caught up in training and competition. When was the last time you took your significant other out for a great meal, movie or play? ''

Your insight into what is really important is also very much appreciated. It is amazing what a 2 month old son can teach you about the important things in life!

"high elbow catch"



what's that, I pull 'more down' in my stroke. is this bad?


*edit* i can tell my arms down bend like the Halo page guy's arms do.

---

-zakk

Death Squad Cycling Club
http://www.ridethedeath.com


"Why is that people will drop $2000 on race wheels and a few c-notes for an ugly tattoo and then balk at the race fee?" - Blackie

Sweet!!

---

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

It sucks, thankyouverymuch. My left shoulder is hella fucked up right now - so I'm out of the water, off the tri-bike, and running like a mofo.

Khai is makin' like a Kenyan. A short, fat, Asian Kenyan, but a Kenyan nonetheless.

---

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

Can I brainwash them or what?! ;-)))))

---

-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

If I ever show up wearing hot pink ankle socks, Francois has orders to put me down with a 72t chainring.

---

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

They say hella in BC? ;-) Take care of that shoulder kenyan.

---

"In the blocks you're a prisoner, the gun releases you."

All I have to say is thank Christ I am a fish. I hate my pool, have no clean open bodies of water and no OW swim buddies to go with me. So since starting IM Wisconsin training (officially) on May 9 I've swum four times, including two races.

The pools I have to choose from are 85-degree vats of floating old people and bacteria, both of which complain if you splash too much during the lap swim. Any questions?

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-------------------------------------------
"The hero is someone in continual opposition to the status quo. The hero is always becoming himself." Jos� Ortega y Gasset.

"The enthusiasm (absorbing or controlling possession of the mind by any interest or pursuit) is needed before breaking the milestone and not after." Sergio Escutia, on Lukas Verzbicas' subdued reaction to breaking 4 minutes in the mile.

terribly!! i broke my wrist a week ago, and today was the first day back in the water - i was barely holding 1.30's, and i can cruise quite comfortably at 1.22-1.25 (SCM)..
any tips on swimming with a cast, it goes up just shy of my elbow, so my catch is crap, and then its huge, so my entry, pull and exit are super slow.. i feel like bionic man
(rather timely post, cause i really was looking for a place to vent after the swim)..
anyhow, it comes of mid to late augest, so i'll have a solid 3 weeks to get my stroke back togeather...
hope your summer is going well

My name is Ben, and I am a recovering breaststroker.

It's going okay. 4,000 - 5,000 yds most weeks, a lot for me. I am in the top 85% (not a misprint) most races and hope to get close to top 55% some day. My two IM swims have been 1:43 and 1:32. Perhaps I can go 1:25ish at IM Florida in 4 months. Although predicting swim times at that race is silly, given that the Gulf can be rough.

Doing some drills, mainly one arm swim, has helped, I think. I don't belong to a Masters group, but I have quite a few strong swimming friends, and I am not shy about asking them to critique my "stroke".

Doug,

Perhaps you have worked with athletes with broken collarbones. Maybe you can help. 4 weeks ago to this day, I crashed hard and broke my left collarbone clean through. It is getting better now with each day. This friday is my hopefully last appointment with the ortho. I hope to see a good x-ray. That will be 4 1/2 weeks from the crash.

My question is, when will I be able to do 2-arm freestyle. This past Sunday was able to get in the pool for the first time (had bad abbrasions that took 3 weeks to completely close up). Swam 1600 doing kick board sets and one-arm free, back and breast. The next day did 2500 (10x200, 5x100). Trying to stay in shape. Was in top form for an August IM when I crashed. Decided I was going to try to hold on to what I had and maybe with 7 1/2 weeks, toe the line just for the challenge. The swim will be a challenge though. I was training to go around 1:03:00 for my swim split. Around 1:10:00 now sounds almost impossible.

Like I said, it is getting better. I can now ride on the trainer without a sling. Last weekend watching the Tour rode a 4 hour trainer session. Ran today for the first time 4 miles although the last 2 weeks have powerwalked 30 miles a week. I can now raise the left arm without too much discomfort just slightly above the shoulder, like when simulating the recovery phase of freestyle. I hope to use two arms maybe in another week and a half or so. That would give me around two weeks of normal swimming before the race. Any ideas? I figure I will have to really shorten up my stroke, ie: short entry, less reach until I get full flexibility back.

thanks,

Conrad

Zakk,

If you lead your stroke by starting at the hip, your shoulder stays high in the water and your hand/forearm pull will be almost straight back. YOur finger tips are pointing downward with your elbow near the surface.

DougStern

Kaka,

I am sure the rest will do your brain and body some good.

Enjoy the summer.

DougStern

Khai,

At least you can run. My fleet footed days are over.

Enjoy the journey.

DugStern

David,

There was a high school swimmer years ago who broke his arm. He kicked 5,000 yards a day and came back to win the Eastern High School championships in the 100 back.

There is always something that you can do in the water.

Kick ass and take names

DougStern

Ben,

Breaststroke requires that you dorsi flex your toes. Can you point them downward. If it is not great work on the point. You will immediately swim faster.

I love breaststroke.

DougStern

Conrad,

I do not know how long it will take to get back to swimming. Each case is different.

Do get into the water and kick on your back. You will maintain a great deal of your conditioning. You can also run in the water with a sling on.

The water will support you. I have had many people train through their injuries in the pool.

Good luck,

DougStern

Doug:

As a 48 year old long time runner who's only been swimming four years, I have some of the world's most inflexible ankles. I have been stretching them daily for about two years. I think they are a little better as a result.

I love breaststroke too! But we must be careful here on ST. "Real" swimmers who have suffered a sharp kick in a race situation hate us. Personally, when I was an exclusive breaststroker, I tried to find "empty" water in races by swimming way wide. I didn't want to inadvertently kick someone, nor break a toe in doing so.

Ben

BEn,

In addition to working on your ankles, play with your toes as well. Use your hand to force them down. As they bend more you will swim faster.

DougStern

No...my swimming pretty much stays the same.

Why should I go to Master's at 5:00am 3x times a week simply to take 8ish minutes off my IM time....when I could just sleep in and focus my attention on the bike and run?

;o)

Seriously though, I wish swimming was more of a priority for me, but it's not. I'm very comfy in the water...but not too many reason to get faster. Oh well.

I do enjoy all of your swim post though!!!!

It stinks, but I appreciate your asking.

1) I just started private lessons. After my first lesson, I knocked off 5 seconds per 100. Unfortunately, the speed gain only lasted for 2 days before I went right back to my old habits and slowed down. Don't worry, I've got another lesson scheduled for tomorrow.

2) I've been fighting my full wetsuit all year. I've got a desoto T1 and it feels like I'm lifting weights when I swim. My arms are toast. I've pulled the arms up as much as I can, and it still doesn't help. But it may not matter b/c the water has been so hot that I don't think I'll be able to use it in my upcoming races.

3) I swim slower in open water with my wetsuit than I do in the pool. Probably b/c I can't swim a straight line.

Thanks for giving me an opportunity to vent.

Hi Doug~

I am starting to get tired of the drills, but they seem to be helping. I am starting to see faster times in the pool (sure hope it carries over to my races!). I really appreciate your feedback from my video- your insight was so helpful!

Enjoy the rest of your summer..

Heidi

Doug the swim at the NYC tri was fun, what with the current and undisclosed creepy crawlies (if the NYC swim thread is to be believed). Still trying to have the good hips, but mostly working with resistence cords to try and build the strength that is sorely lacking. Best to your family, Scott from MO

Nah - but I spent 1.5a in San Francisco, so I got the plague. ;-)

---

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

Yeah, I'm actually enjoying my run focus. I might never be "fast", but I can sure afford to suck a lot less!

Once the shoulder comes back on-line, I'll be back in the water with a vengance.

---

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

Smitty8

Keep in mind - your athletics should fit into your life and not the other way around.

There is no need to get faster unless you want to.

Sleep is great. I train with a masters team at 6:45 A.M. sometimes. I prefer to sleep and swim at 9:00 A.M.

DougStern

Owen,

Ask your instructor about your arm recovery. If your arms are swinging wide your shoulders might get worn out withyour wetsuit.

DougStern

Tri girl,

Instead of drills - observe.

Notice what you are doing as you are swimming. It is time to trust your body to do the right thing. Acknowledge all the right things that you are doing.

Have fun,

DougStern

Skeets,

I am so sorry that I missed you.

Use a metronome when you do your stretchcord work. Keep a pace.

DougStern

Not at all at the moment, Doug.

I'm nursing a sprained ankle (educated guess - grade 2), today is Day 9, and I searched for and printed out yer great info on Pool Running (thanks!!!), but I was wondering - WHEN should I be able to actually start doing that??

I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but, I really miss running. And, I am actually even kinda sorta looking forward to my next swim workout.

(Who am I, and what did I do with the real me? ;-0)

I need to get going in some manner ASAP, otherwise I'm gonna be truly hosed at Timberman.

---

float , hammer , and jog

I hate you for being happy about this!!!!

Gar

---

"Why do they keep inventing new ways to celebrate mediocrity" -

Actually, just getting excited about swimming again.

Was recently out in Colorado Springs for the weekend and had the opportunity to have Mike Doane take a short look at my swim stroke. Made a couple of small adjustments at well as showing me the proper way to use my hips to drive the stroke. Worked on it for about a week and am already seeing some great results. Stroke is holding up much longer, and DPS has gone up as well.

Went back to Masters last week for the first time in a month where I had been swimming only 3000-5000yds a week and was able to lead my regular lane no problem for a 3500m workout. Very encouraging and has me looking forward to going to the pool again.

Any drills you can suggest to help the transition from the old style stroke that was based on sculling to the newer stroke focused on swimming with the core and high elbows? I'm already a decent swimmer (top 5% in my races), but I think I can make some serious improvements with this new stroke and some dedicated pool time.

Also making sure to getting out and enjoying the summer when I can get away from the office. Went to a Dave Matthews concert this past Sunday night with a group of friends and am meeting up with a hot little blonde for sushi this evening :)

---

Fit2Tri Multisport
http://www.fit2tri.com

Hi, Doug... I was wondering where you went.... not seeing you at NYAC.

My swimming is ok, but I believe I have gotten slower this season. I genuinely think that I have lost upper body muscle mass, and therefore strength, in the last six months. I guess it's a trade off since I have been spending more time on the bike, etc. As you probably know, I left the water first in all my races last year... this year, not the case. Pace car doesn't have my name on it anymore...

See you soon.

David

LOL. I believe wetsuits tarnish the purity of the sport. ;-)

Doug,

Generally lurk here, but thought I'd chime in. I Reckon my swimming has improved on less volume this year. I am a BOP IM swimmer, but completed swim leg of IM Switzerland at the weekend in 75 mins - a PR by 4 mins (vs last year on the same course). I swam easy, felt relaxed and happy throughout and on reflection could probably have gone harder.

All in all, I think my swim set me up for my better than expected performance on what was a tough course and a VERY hot day.

Am I naive to assume that by addressing the frequency/volume issue I will get quicker? Understand that my technique will become a limiting factor at some point as I have been swimming front crawl for only a couple of years. Is that the point to get a coach/lessons or should I start going to masters classes now?

Thanks.

JC

I will give you that point. I just do not know how to get faster. I am ok at distances other than olympic, where the swim is a little less important. Interlochen is an example of how you can lose a race in the swim. I do not know what happened, but I sucked big time in the water. These races are too hard to chase young-ins all day after spotting them big leads. Maybe I should switch to duathlons. What races do you have planned for the rest of the year. If you are going to Mark Mellon, I might sign up and have a shot at the title. I like the short swim, long bike, long run aspect of this race.

Gar

---

"Why do they keep inventing new ways to celebrate mediocrity" -

Murphy's Law,

You can run in the water immediately.

Some movement will aide the healing process. Use your sense of physical well being in judging the effort level.

Take care,

DougStern

Mark Mellon is a great race, but I am signed up for Steelhead that weekend.

Mark,

Do some one arm swim shere you focus on leading your hip. It keeps your shoulder up and allows you to pull straight back.

Imagine the palm of your hand says hip. When you see it, start you hip moving.

Have a great summer.

DougStern

DAvid,

My guys are off for the summer so I am not at the NYAC.

After each swim workout do some press ups. They will help maintain your strength. Are you catching people on the bike?

DougStern

I do agree.

DougStern

Catching people on the bike? No! Being caught by people on the bike!

Enjoy the summer!

JC

A coach/technician will help you get the most out of your training with the least amount of effort.

My coach used to say, "the strong will take it from the weak but the smart will take it from the strong."

DougStern

Where the heck should I be looking when I breathe. Toward the wall, right?

Jtang,
Your brethe should be taken towards the beginning of the stroke. As our shouldrs roll look 90 degrees to the side. Never look behind it throws our body off balance.
DougStern

Doug -- please stop helping people -- I like my big lead out of the water.



Just joking :-) Hope your summer is great.

Tanks Doug, every bit of info helps. Love the practical swimming info you give, one of my favorites for sure

I've been avoiding this thread (since it's not about bikes!) but here goes.

One thing that sucks living in a rural area is we do not have an indoor pool locally. During the winter months i have to drive to the nearest small city for my weekly 8:00 AM Sunday morning swim. During the summer I have two training options - my 36 ft long backyard pool and the local lake (full of small motor boats, etc).

Also living in a rural area, there is no access to a master's program or coach. I've done the next best thing and purchased the Total Immersion package and have been working on the drills. Hoping to shave a few minutes off the swim this year at my "A" race.

If I ever move from the hinterland back to civilization, you can be darn sure that I'll pick a place that has a great pool facility.

You're just pissed because I came out on your heels. Man, I was kinda pleased with the swim. I guess I must suck really bad also.

Yes, you do really suck bad also.

What I am pissed about is that you sprinted by me in the shallow water and got a faster swim time than me!!!

Still, big props to you for finishing despite the 2 blown tubes! I do not know if I would have been as gracious as you were.

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"Why do they keep inventing new ways to celebrate mediocrity" -

Fully will admit that I did sprint to get to the mat before you. Really funny stuff.

Sunday's ride should be a beaut. Be prepared for attacks aplenty

We need to make your home 36' pool into an endless pool.
You can rig latex tubing to one end and tether the other end to your waist.
The tubing, when stretched should come within five feet of the far end.
You can do loads of inrtervals with short rest.
You can also make a bench with a slight incline and use your stretch cords on land. I use a metronone to keep pace.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
DougStern

depressingly, but thanks for asking..

I spent a month on vacation, swimming in the Agean every day. Every other day was 2-3km, intervals based on the location of the beach umbrellas that day, usually 5-6min hard, 1min stroke, etc. On run days, 10min out with the wind/chop, 12-14min back into it, depending on wind speed/wave height.

Normally I swim about 3000m/week in a single Master's session. After all that OW swimming, none of my times has changed a bit. Still stuck on 7m/500scy and so on up. . I'm a bit baffled now, not sure what I could do to improve. I do feel as if I'm swimming better, but there's no objective confirmation of it.

My last 4 swims at Boulder tri (time includes 150m uphill run to T1): 25:50, 25:49, 24:50, 25:50
I confidently predict another 25:50 on Sunday.. oh well.

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview