Hey, I am doing my first 1/2 ironman [1/2 vineman]. If anybody has any advice about any aspect of this race I would appreciate the input. Thanks!!!
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Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [WHY86]
[ In reply to ]
Well,
I hope you haven't consistently been training with a wetsuit because the water temp is already 77 degrees with two weeks to go. Looks like it might be a wetsuit-free swim.
I hope you haven't consistently been training with a wetsuit because the water temp is already 77 degrees with two weeks to go. Looks like it might be a wetsuit-free swim.
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [WHY86]
[ In reply to ]
Hey WHY86!
Vineman is a great course. It can be a fast course of you are patient early. The KEY will be to take it out easy for the first 15-20 minutes of the bike and to use easy efforts for the first 3 miles on the run. The early bike is made up of rollers and it is important that stay controlled over this part of the course. For Half IM, an extrememly fit athlete (elites and Pros) should ride steady early, building to upper steady with some mod-hard. A very fit athlete steady to upper steady. A moderately fit athlete at steady or the first deepening of breath (first uptick). Let athletes fly past you until you are out of the initial rollers. They are fitter and faster or silly. Either way, let them go.
There is one climb as you get closer to finsh -- Chalk Hill. It's not that tough unless you have paced poorly early. This is where you might give your biggest HR/watts of the day. I like to ride it mod-hard to hard and finish strongly. You can put a lot of time into the early hammerheads the last 10 miles of this bike split.
If you are very fit I would run steady, building to mod-hard by the turn around. Come back in mod-hard to hard, ending the last 5k at 2-3 beats below threshold with the last bit giving everything you've got.
Eat and drink through the entire run. Never stop drinking right up to the last station. It's usually hot.
Have fun :-)
KP
Vineman is a great course. It can be a fast course of you are patient early. The KEY will be to take it out easy for the first 15-20 minutes of the bike and to use easy efforts for the first 3 miles on the run. The early bike is made up of rollers and it is important that stay controlled over this part of the course. For Half IM, an extrememly fit athlete (elites and Pros) should ride steady early, building to upper steady with some mod-hard. A very fit athlete steady to upper steady. A moderately fit athlete at steady or the first deepening of breath (first uptick). Let athletes fly past you until you are out of the initial rollers. They are fitter and faster or silly. Either way, let them go.
There is one climb as you get closer to finsh -- Chalk Hill. It's not that tough unless you have paced poorly early. This is where you might give your biggest HR/watts of the day. I like to ride it mod-hard to hard and finish strongly. You can put a lot of time into the early hammerheads the last 10 miles of this bike split.
If you are very fit I would run steady, building to mod-hard by the turn around. Come back in mod-hard to hard, ending the last 5k at 2-3 beats below threshold with the last bit giving everything you've got.
Eat and drink through the entire run. Never stop drinking right up to the last station. It's usually hot.
Have fun :-)
KP
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [Kevin P.]
[ In reply to ]
KP pretty much hit the nail with his post! (good stuff KP)
From a different thread asking about water temps & gearing i posted:
Water temp was 77 degree's on Saturday, warmer in a couple places, but measured in a number of places closer to the beach at 3+ feet deep. I swam w/ no wetsuit on Saturday morning - no issues. We have had (up until today) temps in the low 90's to 100+ degrees depending where you are. We were at 100 degree's in Geyserville area of the course and mid 90's closer to Windsor on Saturday afternoon. Days like that (we had a bunch) will help warm the water up. Today was much cooler with high marine layer until almost noon. It's way too early to predict whether it will be wetsuit or not. If it's a hot week next week w/ no marine layer it's quite possible no wetsuits ... if it's a "normal" weather pattern (highs in the low/mid 80's, cool nights w/ marine layer through part of the morning) then the water will stay cooler!
Gearing? If you have 10sp and 700c wheels i say the majority of folks racing here should ride the 12x25 if you have it ... if you only have 11x23 then thats what it is. I guess it's relative to what you train on, how strong you are, how much you want to "cross chain" gearing and maybe what kind of cadence you want to carry on a couple of the short hills. IMO there is nothing sustained that is "steep". Chalk Hill will present probelms only for those who do not have the right gearing, fitness, or sense to pace themselves during the bike leg.
Cathy and John are correct regarding the last two years ... if the race was 1 week earlier you would not have been wearing wetsuits. Race day the last 2 years have been 74 & 75 degree's. It's just a timing thing ... there has only been 1 non-wetsuit legal swim in 15 years.
See you in a couple weeks!
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
From a different thread asking about water temps & gearing i posted:
Water temp was 77 degree's on Saturday, warmer in a couple places, but measured in a number of places closer to the beach at 3+ feet deep. I swam w/ no wetsuit on Saturday morning - no issues. We have had (up until today) temps in the low 90's to 100+ degrees depending where you are. We were at 100 degree's in Geyserville area of the course and mid 90's closer to Windsor on Saturday afternoon. Days like that (we had a bunch) will help warm the water up. Today was much cooler with high marine layer until almost noon. It's way too early to predict whether it will be wetsuit or not. If it's a hot week next week w/ no marine layer it's quite possible no wetsuits ... if it's a "normal" weather pattern (highs in the low/mid 80's, cool nights w/ marine layer through part of the morning) then the water will stay cooler!
Gearing? If you have 10sp and 700c wheels i say the majority of folks racing here should ride the 12x25 if you have it ... if you only have 11x23 then thats what it is. I guess it's relative to what you train on, how strong you are, how much you want to "cross chain" gearing and maybe what kind of cadence you want to carry on a couple of the short hills. IMO there is nothing sustained that is "steep". Chalk Hill will present probelms only for those who do not have the right gearing, fitness, or sense to pace themselves during the bike leg.
Cathy and John are correct regarding the last two years ... if the race was 1 week earlier you would not have been wearing wetsuits. Race day the last 2 years have been 74 & 75 degree's. It's just a timing thing ... there has only been 1 non-wetsuit legal swim in 15 years.
See you in a couple weeks!
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [WHY86]
[ In reply to ]
From my files ... this should support KP's samrt strategy:
Swim Course:
The swim of course takes place in the Russian River. The river is relatively shallow, has very little to no current, and you can stand up in many places. Because you can stand up in many places it is very safe, especially if you have any technical problems. Other details:
-The course is an out (upriver) and back (downriver) run in a counter clockwise direction keeping the buoys on your left.
-Sighting is easy because there are a number of large orange buoys and the large green redwoods that surround the river provide a great back drop.
-Water temperature could be anywhere between 72-80 degrees based on race week weather. We have only had year that wetsuits were not age group legal.
-Overall the swim course is easy to navigate and very safe.
Bike Course: (1700 vertical feet of climbing)
-Miles 1 thru 5 is perfectly flat NOTE: there is a sharp right hand turn just past mile 5 on to Sunset Rd.
-Miles 5 thru 27 contains a mix of flat to rolling terrain
-At mile 27 you will have a gradual 1 mile climb up Canyon Rd.
-Mile 28 thru 40 is mostly flat, overall downhill w/a couple small rollers near mile 39.
-Mile 40 begins Chalk Hill Rd. where you find some rolling terrain followed by three quarters of a mile up a 400 foot climb. This does have a couple steeper spots but is not very long.
-Mile 45 to the transition area is virtually downhill and flat with a couple of very small hills to go over.
I like to describe the bike course as slightly challenging but fair. Your key is to be patient until you get to the top of Canyon Rd. at about the half way point. If you have a little bit extra in the tank at this point you should be able to get it moving pretty good the rest of the way.
Run Course: (700 feet of climbing)
-Miles 1-2 are virtually flat
-Miles 3-6 are a mix of flats containing a couple short hills and rollers. NOTE: just shy of mile 4 is the toughest hill on the course.
-Mile 6-7 is a flat loop around the La Crema Vineyard on a dirt road.
-Mile 7-13 is just the reverse of the outward bound 6 miles. Except this time you get to go down the big hill!
-The last 2 miles are flat all the way to the finish!
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
Swim Course:
The swim of course takes place in the Russian River. The river is relatively shallow, has very little to no current, and you can stand up in many places. Because you can stand up in many places it is very safe, especially if you have any technical problems. Other details:
-The course is an out (upriver) and back (downriver) run in a counter clockwise direction keeping the buoys on your left.
-Sighting is easy because there are a number of large orange buoys and the large green redwoods that surround the river provide a great back drop.
-Water temperature could be anywhere between 72-80 degrees based on race week weather. We have only had year that wetsuits were not age group legal.
-Overall the swim course is easy to navigate and very safe.
Bike Course: (1700 vertical feet of climbing)
-Miles 1 thru 5 is perfectly flat NOTE: there is a sharp right hand turn just past mile 5 on to Sunset Rd.
-Miles 5 thru 27 contains a mix of flat to rolling terrain
-At mile 27 you will have a gradual 1 mile climb up Canyon Rd.
-Mile 28 thru 40 is mostly flat, overall downhill w/a couple small rollers near mile 39.
-Mile 40 begins Chalk Hill Rd. where you find some rolling terrain followed by three quarters of a mile up a 400 foot climb. This does have a couple steeper spots but is not very long.
-Mile 45 to the transition area is virtually downhill and flat with a couple of very small hills to go over.
I like to describe the bike course as slightly challenging but fair. Your key is to be patient until you get to the top of Canyon Rd. at about the half way point. If you have a little bit extra in the tank at this point you should be able to get it moving pretty good the rest of the way.
Run Course: (700 feet of climbing)
-Miles 1-2 are virtually flat
-Miles 3-6 are a mix of flats containing a couple short hills and rollers. NOTE: just shy of mile 4 is the toughest hill on the course.
-Mile 6-7 is a flat loop around the La Crema Vineyard on a dirt road.
-Mile 7-13 is just the reverse of the outward bound 6 miles. Except this time you get to go down the big hill!
-The last 2 miles are flat all the way to the finish!
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [WHY86]
[ In reply to ]
Be extremely organized since there are two transition areas 15 miles apart and you drop your run stuff off the day before.
T1 you will have to pack up your stuff and put it in a bag so it can be transported back to the finish.
If you can get someone to drop you off at the start or drive your car back to the finish, your life will be so much easier.
If it's a hot day and you are a guy and start early, be thankful.
clm
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
T1 you will have to pack up your stuff and put it in a bag so it can be transported back to the finish.
If you can get someone to drop you off at the start or drive your car back to the finish, your life will be so much easier.
If it's a hot day and you are a guy and start early, be thankful.
clm
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [Kevin P.]
[ In reply to ]
Thanks for all the info, it was very helpful. If any of you are doing this race good luck!!
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [ironclm]
[ In reply to ]
Hey Cath ... some gals will be starting in the first wave this year and they will be happy too if it's hot ;) We should put you in the last wave and hope it's really hot so you can have good Kona training ;) !
See you soon!
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
See you soon!
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [trifaster]
[ In reply to ]
I'm near the back, so no worries.
Going to be around on Saturday? We'll be up.
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
Going to be around on Saturday? We'll be up.
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [ironclm]
[ In reply to ]
Good ;) ... lets hope for weather we had the past two years!
I'm in town and hopefully getting a ride in ... see how busy i am!
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
I'm in town and hopefully getting a ride in ... see how busy i am!
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [trifaster]
[ In reply to ]
So now that DeBoom and Reid are racing, are they going to add an elite wave?
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [JohnA]
[ In reply to ]
No pro wave ... Just Tim & Pete racing 1v1 for $5000, winner takes the 5 grand put up by Vineman.
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [ironclm]
[ In reply to ]
YEAH! I start early this year!! :D
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [Kestrelkerri]
[ In reply to ]
Carp--you start an hour ahead of me!
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [ironclm]
[ In reply to ]
Cathy, I am a guy, and I am in the last group going off this year, 45 to 49 AG. Now, I plan not to crash on the bike this year!!! I do not want to see the emergency room of the santa rosa hospital again.
Dave
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
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Dave
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [trifaster]
[ In reply to ]
Are they going to start with the women then, or go out with the age groupers?
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [JohnA]
[ In reply to ]
Likely 6:25 ... just before the first wave. Feel free to call the office if you have any questions! (707) 528-1630
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [WHY86]
[ In reply to ]
Though the river is dammed, there is still a small amount of current. Therefore, you will likely find people swimming up-river close to shore (where the current is less), and down-river near the middle. The difference is likely less than a minute, but for some that matters.
Oh, and if you drive the bike course the day or two before the race, keep your windows up for the first part. Last year there was an old man that would turn his hose on any out of town cars that drove his street. If I remember correctly he was on either Sunset Ave or Westside road, shortly after you drive under River road. Fortunately he was not out on race day, but if that weather keeps up, maybe you would welcome the shower.
Jeromy
Oh, and if you drive the bike course the day or two before the race, keep your windows up for the first part. Last year there was an old man that would turn his hose on any out of town cars that drove his street. If I remember correctly he was on either Sunset Ave or Westside road, shortly after you drive under River road. Fortunately he was not out on race day, but if that weather keeps up, maybe you would welcome the shower.
Jeromy
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [trifaster]
[ In reply to ]
Saturday, 9:15 AM at the usual spot......
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [h2ofun]
[ In reply to ]
Cathy, I am a guy, and I am in the last group going off this year, 45 to 49 AG.
Be right there with you, absolute last wave to go off at 8:46...with the race start at 6:30 (or 6:25 for the elite "wave")....I was going to post a separate thread about any tips for waiting this friggin' long to start a race, so if anyone has any tips or just wants to bitch with me about starting *dead last*, feel free to chime in!
I know it rotates every year to even things out----but dammit, last!! Will make for an interesting race, both mentally and physically, especially if the heat keeps up.
Be right there with you, absolute last wave to go off at 8:46...with the race start at 6:30 (or 6:25 for the elite "wave")....I was going to post a separate thread about any tips for waiting this friggin' long to start a race, so if anyone has any tips or just wants to bitch with me about starting *dead last*, feel free to chime in!
I know it rotates every year to even things out----but dammit, last!! Will make for an interesting race, both mentally and physically, especially if the heat keeps up.
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [Mike C]
[ In reply to ]
Hey Mike ... T1 doesn't ever close so you do not have to arrive real early ;) - just give yourself time to park and not rush around. The later you get out to the beach you'll find you are delayed a little more getting into T1 etc. Therefore, unless you have need/desire to get there @ 5:30 i'd take things a little more leisurely, have a cup of coffee and prep for the race. There will be plenty of space to rack (racking done by age group) and no one space is better than the others ... you'll find it funny that some folks will rack 8 bikes together but 30 feet away is plenty of space for you and your bike! Going in a later wave you end up w/ a really good rack spot.
Rest up and see you next week!
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
Rest up and see you next week!
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [trifaster]
[ In reply to ]
Thanks for the info, Dave. This will be my third time there for this race (2001 and 2004 previously) and both of those races were "mid-wave" starts for me. My biggest worry is not really for me but for my girlfriend---I know the parking situation at Windsor High School is problematic at best and I'm picturing her having to park a mile away. So any tips on that aspect of things will be greatly appreciated!
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [Mike C]
[ In reply to ]
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [trifaster]
[ In reply to ]
Can you rack bikes the day before? Or does it have to be on the morning- I get off in the M30-31 wave- luckily-
Weeman
Weeman
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [weeman]
[ In reply to ]
Weeman ... on Saturday you should plan to put your run gear at your T2 rack @ Windsor High School (2-8pm) ... rack the bike Sunday morning @ T1!
Have a great one ...
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
Have a great one ...
-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [trifaster]
[ In reply to ]
Done, Dave...and thanks again.
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [Mike C]
[ In reply to ]
>> so if anyone has any tips or just wants to bitch with me about starting *dead last*, feel free to chime in!<<
Been there, done that way too many times.
Like Dave said, no rush in getting to G'ville, though you'll have to park far away. Factor in that time.
If you are a decent cyclist, you'll be passing people for 56 miles. Have your "on your left" voice ready.
Post-race--don't expect to use any of the porta potties. They will be overflowing and unusable. (Dave--can you guys do something about that?)
Depending on when you finish, there may be slim pickings on the post-race food after 2,000 people have already eaten.
But hey, look on the bright side, you won't likely freeze during the first part of the bike! And, the port-pottie lines at the start will be shorter. And mostly, you'll be very thankful the next time you get an early wave.
clm
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
Been there, done that way too many times.
Like Dave said, no rush in getting to G'ville, though you'll have to park far away. Factor in that time.
If you are a decent cyclist, you'll be passing people for 56 miles. Have your "on your left" voice ready.
Post-race--don't expect to use any of the porta potties. They will be overflowing and unusable. (Dave--can you guys do something about that?)
Depending on when you finish, there may be slim pickings on the post-race food after 2,000 people have already eaten.
But hey, look on the bright side, you won't likely freeze during the first part of the bike! And, the port-pottie lines at the start will be shorter. And mostly, you'll be very thankful the next time you get an early wave.
clm
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [ironclm]
[ In reply to ]
And, the port-pottie lines at the start will be shorter.
Hmmm, hadn't thought about that one...I might like that, especially with my overactive system on race mornings.
If you are a decent cyclist, you'll be passing people for 56 miles. Have your "on your left" voice ready.
I guess the good thing here is that for the most part the cyclists will be a bit more skilled than at SJIT...but this will still be an interesting ride since I'll likely come out of the water mid-pack in my wave and as you say, faced with the prospect of nearly 2000 riders already on course. Will take some work to stay focused and within myself as opposed to wanting to blast by as many people as I can in as short a time as possible.
And mostly, you'll be very thankful the next time you get an early wave.
Yeah, I can feel that one already!
Hmmm, hadn't thought about that one...I might like that, especially with my overactive system on race mornings.
If you are a decent cyclist, you'll be passing people for 56 miles. Have your "on your left" voice ready.
I guess the good thing here is that for the most part the cyclists will be a bit more skilled than at SJIT...but this will still be an interesting ride since I'll likely come out of the water mid-pack in my wave and as you say, faced with the prospect of nearly 2000 riders already on course. Will take some work to stay focused and within myself as opposed to wanting to blast by as many people as I can in as short a time as possible.
And mostly, you'll be very thankful the next time you get an early wave.
Yeah, I can feel that one already!
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [Mike C]
[ In reply to ]
I was told the over 50 folks are never last. Will see when I get there.
I guess if the water temp is only 77 with all the hot days we have had, my guess is it will cool down enough that the
water will not get any hotter. I sure like wearing my wetsuit for the safety of it. I know at wildflower, the waves are long so having to think about ones eatting before a later start is something I still do not have down yet. Oh well, just pray the heat lets up. I talked to one person who did the full vineman a few years ago with there was a big heat spell, and he commented they ran out of water. I sure hope they have that issue fixed!!
Dave
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
I guess if the water temp is only 77 with all the hot days we have had, my guess is it will cool down enough that the
water will not get any hotter. I sure like wearing my wetsuit for the safety of it. I know at wildflower, the waves are long so having to think about ones eatting before a later start is something I still do not have down yet. Oh well, just pray the heat lets up. I talked to one person who did the full vineman a few years ago with there was a big heat spell, and he commented they ran out of water. I sure hope they have that issue fixed!!
Dave
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [h2ofun]
[ In reply to ]
Males 50+ go at 7:18am this year ... they have gone in the latter waves before and will at some point again. Different rotation every year.
Bad Rumor about running out of water - Russ has always been on top of the water issue. The bike aid stations have plentiful amounts of bottled water and 6 of the 7 run aid staions all have a water source directly to the location. Last minute Costco runs for water at the finish line later in the day maybe, but he's never have run out of water. Sorry but it felt necessary to defend that ;)
The heat has already let up and air temps haven't been out of the 70's for two days ... this means the river is cooling down too! ;)
See you next weekend!
Bad Rumor about running out of water - Russ has always been on top of the water issue. The bike aid stations have plentiful amounts of bottled water and 6 of the 7 run aid staions all have a water source directly to the location. Last minute Costco runs for water at the finish line later in the day maybe, but he's never have run out of water. Sorry but it felt necessary to defend that ;)
The heat has already let up and air temps haven't been out of the 70's for two days ... this means the river is cooling down too! ;)
See you next weekend!
Re: 1/2 VINEMAN [trifaster]
[ In reply to ]
Thanks for all the info. This will be my first tri since 1998 and that was a sprint. I suspect most of the questions I have will be answered at the pre-race meetings on Saturday.
This race sure has a good reputation, everyone I've asked recommended it for the race to get my toes wet again.
My only worry is the temptation to visit wineries and drink a little too much.
See you guys there. I'll be in the 34 year old wave, also pretty late in the morning - 7:54 I think.
This race sure has a good reputation, everyone I've asked recommended it for the race to get my toes wet again.
My only worry is the temptation to visit wineries and drink a little too much.
See you guys there. I'll be in the 34 year old wave, also pretty late in the morning - 7:54 I think.
This is not a rumor. I talked to the person who is a good friend who did the race. I am not saying the race is not well run.
I have made mistakes with races I have been the co RD on also. I just learned for the next year, and water was one of the issues.
Dave
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
I have made mistakes with races I have been the co RD on also. I just learned for the next year, and water was one of the issues.
Dave
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep