Tell your girlfriend to shave. ;)
I wish I had some advice. Just think of all the Tour leaders that could have been penalized.
You are indeed unlucky. Stupid penalty.

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Team Zoot So Cal

Way to sneak a kona drop in there

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

That sucks. If a gorilla runs next to me, I will be sure to punch him and ask him to stop.

Can you estimate how many minutes the gorilla's encouragement saved you?

This does sound like a very silly penalty. How long does a spectator have to run with you for it to be a penalty?

were you winning and the gorilla slipped you a banana ?

Did you know the person under the gorilla suit?

I agree, bogus call. I would appeal it for sure.

That's absolutey hilarious. I was 3rd overall into T2. I saw him on my way out. I would have gladly taken the penalty for the gorilla to pace me. Maybe it would have saved my run.

This can not possibly be a legit penalty.

A random fan can give anyone they want a penalty by jogging next to them?

Sometimes racing is like wrestling a 500 lb gorilla :0)

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Good thing the gorilla wasn't Prancersizing next to you, you might have gotten a DQ.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

Ya know...damn good point.
Close race...have someone strategically set up to run next to your competition and get them a penalty.
Might get some people to Kona! (He-he)
Officials need to use their brain.

Hate to derail a good gorilla penalty thread, but 59-year-old Moatsie had a rather impressive day - finishing with a 1:37 run.

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Damn, that's a cold ass honkey.

If it makes you feel any better, he gave my wife a penalty for having a shoe 6 inches in the isle.

Oh wow, I heard you going off on the official a couple times and was wondering what was up. That's a ridiculous penalty.

and the gorilla was a heal striker, its all bad!

That is one gorilla with a nasty heel-strike. Doesn't he know he could get more bananas by switching to mid-foot?!?

What a complete joke of a USAT official. If I were the guy that got moved up in awards based off this penalty I'd be passing off any award that came with it back to you. It's not worth taking if it validates such an idiotic penalty.

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In 10 years you will have far more fun telling this gorilla story than boring someone with the story of how you finished second in some race very few people know exists...

man, we have a guy that runs in a gumby suit all the time and no one gets any slack for it. That guy must have been a D-bag

Is that supposed to excuse an official for making a stupid call? He could still tell the gorilla story in 10 years with or without a penalty so I'm not sure what point you are driving at with with your ellipses.

This isn't 'Nam, Smokey, this is triathlon. There are rules.

Yes, I know the guy. This was a local race for me, only a few minutes from my house actually. We had lots of local guys on the course and the gorilla guy is a local too. Should that matter?

Is Moatsie the guy that recently served a doping ban?

10 years from now if I tell a story about a no name triathlon I got 2nd or 3rd in I need to be publicly flogged. But today I was racing for the win... damn primate. .

Yes, the heel striking gorilla needs to work on his form. Just more evidence that he wasn't pacing me...

Jack... got to drop the Kona thing anytime possible. Don't judge..

Are you sure it was the gorilla incident that gave you the penalty? I heard you got a dolphin to drag you along the swim and then got a ride in a truck for the second half of the bike leg and dropped you off into T2, and thats why they called it unauthorized assistance?

Yeah, Mr Ref specifically said the gorilla gave me an unfair advantage.

that's just plain bananas. I'd a peel.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

The only thing that is more insane than the penalty you received is that fact that another ref is trying to defend this guy's actions on your twitter feed...seriously, what the hell.

We have a winner!

Yes there are rules, but this was not a friend to help you can any advantage it was the gorilla or whoevere hired the gorilla, ignorant of the USAT rules, they should also know the rules or not be able to in or near the race participants. I suppose you could have said "get the f*^%k away from me, you silly ass monkey".

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-----------------------------------------------------------
"You do what you have to do , so can do what you want to do."

Good thing the gorilla wasn't with you in T3

"You don't stop when you're done; you stop when the gorilla is done!"

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

This must be a first: Someone complaining about a penalty on ST who actually has a legitimate beef.

A BS penalty for sure.

This is just silly... $100 to appeal a silly call? What a scam...

a. Time and Fee for Filing Appeal. An appeal must be filed in writing with the USA Triathlon Executive Director postmarked within 30 days after the date of the decision or determination being appealed and must be accompanied by a $100 filing fee. The filing fee shall be refundable only if the appeal is finally determined in the appellant's favor.

What a creepy little jobsworth.

He is wearing Newtons and still slamming that heel!

Did the argument go down in the food tent? There was some type of commotion. That or Macon's heat brings out the drama.

I suppose you could have said "get the f*^%k away from me, you silly ass monkey".

You can't do that either.

3.3 General Conduct. At or during an event, or while at the event site, all participants must:
a. Act in compliance with these Competitive Rules;
b. Conduct themselves in a manner that is not offensive in any way to fellow participants, spectators, officials or volunteers and is considered reasonable and acceptable in the community;
c. Treat all participants, officials, volunteers and spectators with fairness, respect and courtesy;
d. Refrain from the use of abusive language or conduct; and
e. After violating any of the Competitive Rules, report such violation to the Head Referee or retire from the event.

From my quick glance at the USAT rules it looks like you could get a penalty if someone in the crowd cheers for you.

No participant shall accept from any person (other than a race official) physical assistance in any form, including food, drink, equipment, support, pacing, a replacement bicycle or bicycle parts, unless an express exception has been granted and approved, in writing, by USA Triathlon.

I woulda gone apeshit if this happened to me.

Hey wait a minute - apeshit *is* bananas!

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float , hammer , and jog

You'd have a reason to appeal if it was just a random guy in an ape suit but it wasnt. The subject title is a bit misleading, considering that you were in on having your buddy jump into the race and run around like a bozo in an ape costume. Your buddy could've cheered you on from the side. Rules are there for a reason. If they weren't enforced everybody and their mother would be out in moronic costumes to join in for a brief run after their friend exits t2. Funny thing is... If that were the case, you'd probably be one of the first to complain.

I agree that this is a ludicrous call in the grand scheme of things, but, to play devil's advocate if I may...


It wasn't "some dude", it was your buddy, and you admit that he was there to "pump you up for a 13 mile run". How is that not outside assistance? Had you approached a referee prior to the race and asked whether it's OK to have a friend run with you out of T2 in order to pump you up, what would the answer have been?

Hey look, the ref now has an ST account.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Some dude is a gorilla suit... yes it was.. I know him, but I didn't have any knowledge of this monkey business going into it. Not to mention he did this same exact thing for other buddy's on the course, yet I was the only penalty. The others weren't contesting for an overall position. If the official was consistent and penalized the 10+ others then it would having been even more asinine, yet laughable. But to single out 1 man is just unfair.

Now, that I addressed the devils advocate, it was a guy in a gorilla suit... how much assistance could he give me? Really? Ask yourself that? This wasn't a world championship event, it's Macon Ga. These rules were not put in place for situations like this, officials should use their head.

Even if it was a World Championship event, you received absolutely no assistance in my mind, hence the full disclosure of playing devil's advocate. Perhaps you were able to relieve some facial stress by smiling more than you would have without the gorilla! :)

Haha oh lord.... he could have been married to the person in the gorilla suit for all I care the penalty is moronic.

Makes more sense with the details. How was your buddy allowed to continue running around on the course if you got a penalty? I would think he would've been pulled too. Maybe he will cough up the $100 so you can get your 4min back.

It's funny you say that. . .I am actually his wife and am the one who had our buddy dress up as the gorilla as a total joke. The whole gorilla suit is an inside joke amongst a local group of friends. My husband wore the suit at IM TX as a joke to cheer a group of us on the run. He had no idea I was bringing the suit. In Kona this year, there was a guy in a gorilla suit and a dude in a banana suit that ran around at random events all week. They made several appearances on the course race day. . .
It's a complete joke, there was no pacing in the 20 seconds the gorilla ran by him. . . everyone that saw the gorilla suit at the race (as far as I could tell) thought it was humorous and there were even some photo ops. . .

I suppose you could have said "get the f*^%k away from me, you silly ass monkey".

You can't do that either.

I do believe that in GA you can invoke the NRA / Charleton Heston exemption to that rule if you yell "Get the Hell away from me you goddamn dirty ape"

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Styrrell

I just don't see how this is outside assistance any more than having lots of people just cheering us on as we leave transition or come to the finish line. I get a little bit of a mental boost from that, does that mean I deserve a penalty for every race I've ever done where spectators arrived? Or what about those two Hawaiian dudes that always run to the finish line at Kona with the race winners?

There is obviously a spectrum of benefits that can be gained from outside assistance - some things help a lot, some things don't help much, some things may hurt you, and everything in between. For something to be deserving of a penalty, it probably needs to have some sort of measurable benefit, or cross the line of what is acceptable in sport. Where in that spectrum does this particular action lie? How do you even measure this form of outside assistance? It's mental - some people might get a kick out of it, while others might even find it distracting, etc. If one's significant other stood at the sideline quietly holding a sign that said "T3 is gonna be super awesome if you can PR", would that be just as mentally motivating? I would find that a hell of a lot more motivating than having a gorilla running alongside of me. On a different part of the spectrum, having a dude in a gorilla suit running with me would probably be significantly less motivating than having a real gorilla chasing me. Those bastards are dangerous. But, I digress...

The other angle on this is whether or not it was premeditated. That, to me, is another deciding factor in the effectiveness of the outside assistance. Having somebody bandit a race to pace you, or arranging for someone to meet you at certain points along the course with your nutrition would require some planning in advance. Those are, in my opinion, considerably more serious and beneficial than what happened to you. The trick with this is that it's your word versus theirs on whether or not you had planned this.

I would appeal it - I bet you'll get your $100 back once USAT realizes how petty this is. I have nothing but respect for the officials and what they do, but this official is out of line. At a minimum, the rules could benefit from a review to establish at what point in the spectrum outside assistance becomes "real" enough to be punishable.

I would be willing to throw in a few bucks for your appeal, if you decide to do it. I think you could make some decent arguments to win your case.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Stupid stupid penalty but the story is a changin'. It has gone from you were just racing along and a guy in a gorilla suit ran with you for a short time to my wife arranged to have someone dress up in a gorilla suit and run with me.

My sympathy factor is decreasing, even though it was a stupid call.


.

If anything this referee should no longer be given the responsibility to referee USA triathlon races.

There are plenty of people who would be great at this job. I'm more concerned with the choice hang up the laces in the tent with plenty of racers still on the course.

So where's his penalty?

The guy racing did not know the gorilla was out there. And the ref did not know that was the case whn he gave the penalty.Have you ever been to a race and saw anyone cheering that did not know any racer at all? IF THE TWO KNEW EACH OTHER IS NOT THE POINT. The point is it was not pacing. How can you pace someone for less than 100 yds in a 13.1 mile race. And the ref did not charge anyone else i ran next to.
The ref was just on a power trip and it seems like he mad lots of other people made at the race.

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Mad%20Gorilla

Ha! No sympathy intended. Bottom line it was a guy in a gorilla suit ran me out of T2. 20 seconds at most...ask yourself is that worth 4 minutes? Their intentions were good, nothing malicious from doing it. The ref had no way of knowing if it was a friendly gorilla Didn't matter to him, (those words came out of his mouth) so why should it make any difference?

is there any published data on performance gains while being paced by a primate ?

I too think it is a bunch of bs. But this isn't the first time I have heard of it. Years ago, I knew a guy at Gulf Coast that had his bike out on the run course to spectate, cheer, etc. he rode next to a friend for about a minute chatting. Boom...friend got the penalty. I just rolled my eyes.

Actually yes, think about it for a minute.

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Styrrell

When thinking about this during my long ride today, I decided this is a righteous call by the official.

First off the OP lied in his original post. He lied by omission. From that post I got the impression that he was doing his race, a spectator there in a gorilla suit was firing up the crowd and ran with him out of T2 for a while, and he was given a penalty. He claims unfairness because he was the only one given a sanction.

But it has come to light it was not just a random, unknown spectator. It was his friend. Moreover, it was not just a friend that happened to show up to support his mates. The whole thing was arranged by the OP's wife. This gives us a good idea about why the OP was singled out. Instead of simply running with the OP, gorilla-man was likely calling out his name or in some other way indicating to the official that the two were in cahoots and that is why the OP is the only one who was sanctioned.

We can also take the gorilla suit out of the equation. What if the OP's wife ran alongside him out of T2 for a couple hundred meters? Would that be okay? If you say that the distance the OP was given support is not enough for a penalty then what happens when every other asshole in the race has his wife pace him out of T2?

Next we have a total douchebag move of coming here to incite the mob against the official, which the OP and his henchmen call out by name. It is one thing to cheat, get caught, and take your medicine, but to cheat, get caught, and then do you best to create hatred against the official who caught you and to undermine the officiating process is bullshit. The fair solution here is for the OP to be DQed. Really for situations like this a tri ban should be permissible.

Escape from Alcatraz had a group of cheerleaders cheering us on. Thank God this dipshit wasn't officiating this race. We'd all get penalized.

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_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

I think you should volunteer to be a ref so you can help catch all of these horrific cheaters ruining our sport.

Or maybe you should just work harder on your long rides so your head doesn't fill up with so much bullsh!t.

I think this may be a Georgia thing. Not that I pretend to understand Georgia--although I once was in Atlanta for a while--big airport for sure!

But I'm pretty sure this would not happen up in Delaware. First off, no one would wear a gorilla suit. Second, there are no USAT refs. third, we are all mid-foot strikers up here--haven't you heard it's faster!

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Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

Slow clap. Another one of your typical idiotic posts.

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Do you care to actually make a point by refuting anything in my post or do you usually just rely on being an asshole to win arguments?

I still wouldn't consider it a righteous call, but I am certainly a lot less on the OP's side. I think you are overreacting to the OP's lack of full disclosure and his sneaky Kona drop :)

I don't know about the OP's race but I know of some triathlons that do not allow any running alongside whatsoever and the penalty is disqualification. From such a race's website...

"you cannot follow or be followed by a fellow athlete, friend or family member at any time on the course by any means. This will be deemed pacing in any form and therefore will result in disqualification."

samthree wrote:

The point is it was not pacing. How can you pace someone for less than 100 yds in a 13.1 mile race.

+1

If I was reffing and someone ran along side for 100-200 yds I would not call it pacing, if I saw it I might have told them not to continue not know how long the spectator was intending to run along side. More than 200 yds which is near a minute if the runner is running an 8:00 min pace then I have to say that is where the act starts to change from offering encouragement to pacing.

The ironic thing is that if a spectator were to run alongside you coming out of T2 I would think you would be more like to start out too fast than to be benefiting from "pacing". Its easy enough to do start too fast without someone running along side.

OMG Tarabay, this is priceless. I would gladly take a 4 minute penalty for something so memorable. I only wish I could think of something better to get a penalty for...but there's no way this can be topped

You and the gorilla must come to Heart o Dixie! Not sure he would last 20 sec in the humidity tho ;)

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

Ha!! LC! No doubt! The banana jokes and monkey business comments will have endless life around here. 20 seconds in that monkey suit is all anyone can handle without risking serious injury or even death!

My wife and I are plotting my next cheating scam now. AmaDablam.. any requests? Maybe she can get a real gorilla to throw EPO at me on the run?

I was going to post a brilliant, witty reply... but you changed my plans :)

What planet are you from?

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Uranus?


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I am going to pay a guy to rent a gorilla suit and run, for about 100 metres, beside every single person that is ahead of me in my next tri. They will all be disqualified, and I will win. This is an awesome rule and I hope you all avail yourselves of it (unless you are in my races).

Yup, dude. You should be allowed to break the rules as long as your accomplice dresses up as a gorilla or a baboon or an ape or an orangatang or a chimpanzee or a yeti or some other hominid. When you are caught, be sure to start a thread on ST using "some guy in a gorilla suit" in the title instead of a "friend in a gorilla suit". In fact, refuse to use the term "friend" even though you know him well enough for your wife to get him support you by breaking the rules in a costume. Something like, "I know him," sounds much less culpable. When dozens of other racers all decide they want similar support, I am sure the exit to T2 won't be crowded or anything.

No worries, my hominid doesn't have any prejudice he'll cheer for you too.

And I promise not to tell, but don't I have a great ass? Its big, but its firm. No one is reading this, no one will know... tell the truth .. @TexasTarabay. Ha!

From Planet Of The Apes, but he's turned against his own kind....

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

I truly can't beleive that anyone is actually seriously defending the USAT official in this interpretation of this rule. This is not within the spirit of the rule...not even close folks, not even close. The penalty needs to go away. It is that simple. A message needs to be sent that this type or over-officiating, truly outside of what the rule is meant for, is going to damage the sport; not help it, not encourage a level playing field or fair play...this is not good for the sport. Having dealt with 'judges' like this in my experience in the US Sailing judging system, the message is usually sent to apply common sense in decision making, especially when it comes to affecting the outcome of podium finishes. Hopefully this ref comes to understand this concept...it is not that hard. When decisions like this are made that are clearly outside of the spirit of the rule, the only outcome that is created is hard feelings.

But since this thread is going to be one that keeps on giving for a while.....

So I suppose you are going to tell me that the folks hanging out on the wall at Savageman are providing UA as well?

How about the charge I get from seeing my 4 year old going bonkers when he sees his dad running out of T2? The rush I get from that is worth a few seconds off my time for sure....oh no, could be the difference between off the podium and Clydesdale glory!!!

Right...

This situation exposes (a) a gray area, and (b) one that is incredibly difficult to enforce. Everyone who thinks this is so obvious and that the ref is an ass, please answer the following for me:

1) If a competitor very explicitly has a friend run along side them out of T2, how many yards do they need to run before the penalty is appropriate? 10 yards? 100 yards? 1000 yards? more? Where is the magic line that is ST-approved?

2) If you dress the person up in a gorilla suit does it change the answer to #1?

3) What if you are not 100% sure of the relationship between the competitor and the cheerer/pacer. How does this change the answer to #1? Are they supposed to do interviews and investigate the backgrounds of the people before assessing the penalty?

Check out this cheater at Savage Man:

And what about this cheater?



Oh, never mind.

1000 yards is out of line!

What a coincidence... check the front page... Josh Amberger is clearly cheating calling in support on his nanner phone...

d. Unauthorized Assistance. No participant shall accept from any person (other than a race official) physical assistance in any form, including food, drink, equipment, support, pacing, a replacement bicycle or bicycle parts, unless an express exception has been granted and approved, in writing, by USA Triathlon. The receipt of information regarding the progress, split times, or location of other competitors on the race course shall not be considered the acceptance of unauthorized assistance. Any violation of this Section shall result in a variable time penalty.

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Why is common sense so hard to apply here?

Stick with the facts of this incident. This guy's good buddy got dressed up in a gorilla suit to get him juiced up out of T2. He ran with him for 100 yards, presumably telling him to get his A$$ moving. There is NOTHING in the above rule that applies here...this is good ol fashioned 'mercian cheering!

God damn! Some of you people remind me of LT Houk from Good Morning Vietnam!

You answered zero of my questions.

Actually shouldn't you be saying it makes it very black and white. By the writing of the rule, they essentially eliminate the "gray" area and automatically decide this is pacing.

However, sometimes the answer is "I know it when I see it" to is that really "pacing" or not. Sometimes you do need to add some gray or else you'll get so wound up by following the rules that you'll go over too much. Reminds me of holding in football. There literally is holding on EVERY play but the only really obvious and overly advantage will get called.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

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Yep,some stupid official is busy apply the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law...Hell,there would be a lot of DQ'ed athletes in most Nth American Ironmans if they started applying this law so literally to the various coaches who are out there providing "outside assistance" to their athletes..

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I honestly think the application common sense answers all three. But really I am just taking an eye at the OP's circumstance...anything else we bring in is really irrelevant in the final analysis. I would think that any finding of fact would not consider the what ifs.

But for arguments sake:

1- It sounds like, in your example, that the friend is running with the athlete out of T2 with the expressed purpose of providing pacing. Sounds obvious, ding him right away...

2- See answer to Q1.

3- If you are assessing penalties you had better do your due diligence before throwing a flag...whatever that threshold may be for a ref in his position.

For the record...I want this USAT ref to apply for a job in the NBA. They desperately need someone like him to start calling a few traveling violations, labron James flops, etc...

:)

God I love this website.

You're ignoring the fact that the gorilla ran next to ten people. If the gorilla singled out just one person to run with then you'd at least have the beginning of an argument. But, that didn't happen here. The solution is simple -- after the first incident the ref should have asked the gorilla to stop doing that.

Yes, a golf clap is a far more appropriate tool for spectators, friends, and family to employ.

Why the anonymous profile, dude?

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

Exactly. It's a judgement call and different people will have different interpretations. Someone earlier said "200 yards" or "1 minute". So is the official supposed to time the "run-along" and assess the penalty after it goes longer than the "limit". No - he notices the spectator joining the competitor on the run, and probably turns his attention to other things on the course that must be monitored, like cyclists coming into T2 or athletes already in T2, and then notices some time later that the spectator is still running with the same competitor.

So why did the gorilla need to run with the OP for so long anyway? 20 seconds does seem a bit long for cheering someone on.

The gorilla suit shouldn't make a difference, but is does make it more conspicuous.

We don't have the ref's account. We have the account of the OP, who has hidden facts and downplayed his relationship with gorilla-man. It is not hard to believe there is more that he is hiding.

What we do know is the ref saw it, made the call, and evidently the only racer he thought needed a penalty was the OP. That indicates there was something going on between the OP and gorilla-man that was not going on with other competitors and gorilla-man. I think it is fair to give the ref the benefit of the doubt, especially in light of the OP's deception. I also don't think he deserves to have his name dragged through the mud as the OP and his posse try to carry out a vendetta against him.

I didn't ignore anything. I just asked some questions.

You can add a 4th question: 4) what if the spectator does it to 10 different athletes??

I think pacing should be legal proving the pacer is willing to wear a gorilla suit. If one gorilla catches another on the course, they are required to wrestle until one of them pins the other. Only the victor may continue on.

For the people defending the official here, look yourself in the mirror and ask "When did I become such a tool?"

+1000 on all counts.

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

This is my new plan to reach Kona.

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_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

We should DQ all of them that makes the most logical sense.

Running beside someone for the first 100 yards of a 23,056 yard race isn't pacing. It isn't even close. It is difficult to imagine any instance where a penalty is warranted in a case like this. The official was absolutely wrong.

Hey, that's me in '09.
Don't worry, karma caught up to me and I dnf'd with a mechanical a few miles later.

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______________________

If I was an official (though im not)I simply wouldn't have the gumption to penalize an athlete in that manner.

I'd feel kinda like I'd lose my "man" card, especially if this "pacing" was done some 10 or so times.

That's of course looking at it from 1 side, but I guess I have to ask, if we are talking "pacing" and an official applying a rule to a situation why are you not up in arms with him letting the 9 or so others off without a penalty as well?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

So what is your criteria for pacing and how is an official supposed to determine that pacing has occurred?

This absolutely is "pacing" according to the rule book. What I don't get is *IF* he's going to ding 1 why didn't he ding the others as well?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

How do you know it was a 100 meters? Because the OP says so? The same OP that forgot to mention it was a friend of his?

You cannot carry your kids, wife, dog, and pet hamster across the finish line of an IM because it creates congestion. How many friends in primate costumes should be allowed to clutter a transition exit? Why not have everyone run out of T2 with their wife and friends?

Maybe someone who knows the official should get the real story of what went down.

My bet is that his friend was doing more than simply running beside him, like encouraging him by name, something that let the official know to two knew each other. The others could have just been generic "way to go" stuff. It is also likely the pacing went on for a lot longer with the OP than the others.

We need the official's side of the story.

Please learn to read. The wife said that she had me wear the suit, never said run with him. He had no idea that I was going to be there. His wife had no idea I was going to run with him for 100 yards. I didn't either until the moment happened. I was running on my own and had some people take pictures.(Including the race photographer asking me to pose) When I got to where my tent was set up I stopped waited for some more people to come. You seem to be the only one here that likes the ref's call. And did you read that the Race Director even told the ref that he disagreed and thought that the penalty should be over turned? But some people just can't race or don't understand the spirit of the rules, so they stick to being jerks.

Pretty sure if you could do more than a relay sprint you would find that this goes on all the time. It is all in fun and just trying to get the crowd cheering. Just look at the pictures people have posted. Do you think that the people cheering had no clue who anyone was? Pretty sure they have a friend in the race or they would not be there.

If you took the stick out of there it would make the bike seat more comfortable.

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Mad%20Gorilla

Did the race director get the whole story? Or did the OP pull the same bullshit he pulled here and say "a guy in a gorilla suit ran next to me" and I got a penalty, forgetting to mention it was preplanned by a friend of his?

It's a shame you had to get off your bike to walk it. Who is the guy in front of you?

We needed this ref to fill in during the football ref strike last year.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

How do you keep 2 athletes from pacing one another in a race? This is the essence of a race...

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_________________________________________________

LLLEEEEEEEEEEEERRRROOOYYY JEEENNNNNKKKIIINNNNNS!!!

Yes the race director was out there. It was not preplanned other than to be out there acting stupid, like a gorilla and banana did in Kona when he raced there last year. (Yes got him another Kona drop) I could not talk though the mask. If I did you could not understand anyway, there is only nose holes no mouth. But the race director knows the difference between cheating and cheering people on. Sorry that you don't have anyone who will cheer for you at a race. But let me know your next one and I will be there for you.

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Mad%20Gorilla

9/10

You are doing a masterful job of getting the crowd worked up.

That should be 3 fouls because there is a kid in the back ground is dressed up and ringing a cow bell. Amazing what some people will do to win. Cheaters, just all a bunch of cheaters!

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Mad%20Gorilla

So you couldn't even vocally cheer him on? How ironic!

A couple of questions:

1) Was your entire run with the OP visible to the official? Perhaps he didn't see you stop and assumed you ran longer than you really did.
2) Did you run the same amount with the other competitors?

1 The road was flat and very straight in the picture you can see all the way back to T2, so I can only assume he could see. I was at T2 getting picture made for race photographer who asked me to pose. I then ran back to the tent and friends that were there. He said that the distance did not matter that I was pacing. Really pacing a guy who ran a 1:33? He also said that he never saw me run with anyone else. We didn't find out about the penalty till after he finished. While the race director was trying to get him to change his ruling and he refused saying it did not matter that he had no clue I was going to do that. Even when I told him I am about to run with the next guy coming in are you going to give him a penalty. He was standing 5 feet away, he said he looked away and was not watching. I tried again but he only wanted to give that penalty to a top finisher.
When the 11th person finished he stayed in the food area and when I asked why he was not out on the course he said that there was not that many people out there. I guess that the remaining 121 people is not many compared to the 11 who had finished. Truth is he only cared about screwing the top finishers.

2. I had just finished a training run (trying to groove in my heal strike), when I got finished I put on the suit while bikers where coming in. I ran around some with others but soon after I ran hard I was about to die in the suit. No mouth and hot plastic face = death. So not much but some running after.

But the awesome thing is I have a guy who says he is going to run a 5k in it this Friday. He said he win the race while wearing the suit and mask. This will be great to see. He is a sub 17 while I am a mid 18 but I think with the suit I can take him. Plus he may die, so I have that going for me....

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Mad%20Gorilla

I doubt he's clever enough for this.

I am the guy in front ;)
I would have not made it if not for the guy in the devil suit pacing me up the hill....

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______________________

Does anyone remember the pro woman that raced with her boyfriend in Miami? He biked slowly out of T2 so she could catch up and then paced her the whole way around the bike course. Eventually they had to adjust the rules to say that wasn't allowed.

oops, only partially quoted the rule and didn't see "fellow athlete" in there. It is following/being followed in the context of pacing, i.e. a faster athlete holding back to stay with a slower athlete for the purposes of pacing him/her to a faster finish.

What a great and interesting thread!! Feel for the guy, total load of utter old tosh, that ruling. Clearly a jobsworth pleased with the enormous power in which he was cloaked for a day.

It's another angle that strikes me - surely a rule or a law is only fair and practical if it is possible to adhere to it. Or more specifically, it must be reasonably straightforward for somebody not to break it. How does the OP avoid breaking this rule? Is he required to punch that gorilla in the face or throw him off the course? How are you meant to stop a gorilla (albeit a pretend one) from running alongside you?!!

Hilarious, in a crap way. But not for the OP.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

But you earlier said that "I could not talk though the mask. If I did you could not understand anyway," or did you take it off to talk to the official?

So what was his response to your queries?

You run faster than him! Or just ask him to stop.

You don't quit when you're tired, you quit when the gorilla is tired.

The funny part about his whole scenario. There were a couple of athletes being paced on the run by people on bikes further down the course.

blatant cheating at the Great Gorilla Run....

When did gorillas begin talking? <--- that's what she said

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__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

well played!

That's hillarious

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__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

Wait, so now you are saying the official ruled with discretion in the other cases but felt this was over the line? That's the whole reason no one thinks this was really "pacing" whether they were friends or not. Better judgement likely was needed, and this isn't even an discussion.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

He was probably pumping everyone up. If you train with a club, you don't know what the other club members have planned for the day. A few weeks back at the Gulf Coast 70.3 two of my buddies dressed up and cheered everyone on during the last .5 mile (if you were at this race you couldn't have missed them), but when I came in they decided to run in with me even though I was trying to tell them to stay away from me.

I understand why the rule is there, but some judgement should be used. Maybe say the 1st and last .5 mile of a run is a cheer zone where people are allowed to run beside you.

For all his other faults, at least Lance understood the rule and did his best to adhere to it. No outside assistance from guys in novelty costumes for Lance!

Had this happen with some random a few weeks ago from mile 1-mile 2 of a half. He had a tri suit on an was running beside me. After .25 miles he told me he was just out for a run not in the race. I asked him to stay away so I wouldn't get a pacing penalty. After another .5 mile of me varying the pace as much as I could after riding 56 miles and not giving away the race I got a little more vocal about staying away. Might not have said some nice words to him. If you are racing you shouldn't have to blow up your race plan if some idiot comes out and runs beside you.

So, I raced the Deer Creek Oly in Ohio yesterday. About 200 yards from the finish chute, some guy in a trisuit comes out and runs with his wife/significant other/friend/whatever for about 100-150 yards cheering her on to the finish. This is about 50 yards or so in front of me. Should she have been DQ'ed?

Spot

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___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

[/quote]


That's not how you do it... this is the way it's done!

You're kidding aren't you, clearly Lance is getting a pull off that guy, like when they grab a bottle from the team car and somehow end up holding on tight for an unusual amount of time before letting go..

Typical bloody Lance.

As a guy who spent a lot of time running at a decent level, I think all this pacing stuff with regard to running is a total waste of time. There may be some mental and physical edge to having a pacer, but I never knew any of my running buddies that spent anytime worrying about it. It is pretty obvious how fast one is - a pacer, or people yelling encouragement, is not going to change that. A pacer can help with mental focus, etc., but one is not transcending one's own physical abilities by using a pacer. This is unlike cycling where it is possible to draft faster than one can physically can ride solo.

I assume these pacing rules are meant to make sure no one gets the slightest edge, but the amount of effort that goes into enforcing such a rule is ridiculous. If someone beats me on the run, I could care less if they had a full Noah's ark of animals running beside them singing the national anthem, it still means that person is faster than me.

I propose a few minutes in the penalty box for the ref:[/url][/img]


Name the movie

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

Trading places?

Yes. Clarence Beeks!

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

Like the female winner that was "followed" by her partner on a bike pretty much the entire run.......

The criteria: Does it provide a competitive advantage? Pacing someone for the final 100 yards of a race could provide an advantage if it helps the competitor move up in the standings. I do not for one minute believe that running beside someone for 100 yards, maybe even up to 400 yards in a half marathon length race, provides a competitive advantage. It's a BS call and the official shouldn't have even considered it.

I don't care if it was 200, 300 or 400 yards. I don't for one minute believe that running beside someone for that short of a distance over a 13.1 mile race provides a competitive advantage. As I said to gonzobob, it's a BS call. I also don't understand why you are arguing otherwise.

captain america chad sounds like a douche.
Ape man should have crop dusted in his tent. Gorilla in the mist.

Too much?

That's some funny shit. Hell, cheering someone for longer than 20 seconds? That's just un-American!

Scary how common sense is being substituted by rules. I see this all over the society, particularly in the public sector. Sad to see this in triathlon as well.

Like I said: if the Gorilla goes T3 on you, you don't stop when you're done; you stop when the Gorilla is done!

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEep67akIn4

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Holy Shit! My new theme song!

I can't see how 20 seconds with a guy dressed in a costume is pacing. I don't see any other rules being broken. "support' refers to exchange off food water, clothes, etc. outside of approved aide stations.

If someone is penalized for doing some thing improper, then there most have been an alternative choice. What could this guy have done to prevent the penalty?

Honestly, I'd get signed and notarized statements from this guy in the suit, you wife and another competitive that witnessed it and submit those with the photo for the appeal... if that's possible.

FWIM, not only did this cost them a place, but 4 minutes is probably a big chunk of USAT age group points if that matters to this individual.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Depends.

Was he in a gorilla suit?

I don't like that the guy was penalized and thought he should have appealed, but now I'm not so sure he would win. In a notarized statement they would say that the wife asked the guy to be there that the gorilla guy was a friend and that they racer knew the guy had the suit that they've used the suit at other races.

Thats probably enough for USAT to uphold the protest. All the other examples given of people running along racers in costume were random, but this wasn't whether the racer knew it or not.

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Styrrell

I don't believe a guy running next to me in a gorilla suit would ever provide me a competitive advantage because I would probably be laughing too hard.

Haha yep. It was a bit annoying because the chick that was riding behind her didn't even yield for me.

You didn't answer my question, but did at least narrow it down to the 7 non-Earth ones.

FWIM at teh finish of an smaller (but USAT) Olympic a few years back, the winner was at least 3 minutes ahead of 2nd place and his 3 y/o kid ran with him the final 50 yards. He of course, wasn't penalized. I think they would have mobbed the offical and run him out of town. You give up so much to train an compete in these races, can't you have a little fun?

Honestly, threads like this are why I enjoy being a big fish in a small pond and not doing many larger races where someimtes following drafting rules to the letter is near impossible. The officials are pretty much local triathletes that love the sport. Not some kind of semi-professional referees.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

The word is out. USAT absolutely does NOT want spectators cheering on racers, and especially not if they are their friends. Anyone whose friends show up to cheer them on will be penalized/disqualified.

They can cheer. The line is drawn when you cheer in a gorilla suit. That's uncivilized :)

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__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

False on both counts!
His buddy was running around, with everyone, of his own volition.

And cooterbrown would definitely have not complained. He and I have done battle before.

And he beat me without an ape.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

When Slowtwitch decides to compile a coffee table book of the history of the funniest, saddest, quirkiest posts about its users, this one has to be in there somewhere.
Man gets a penalty because a gorilla ran next to him...that is just too funny.

I guess I should have been DQ'd from my IM last year. I spotted my family on the climb out of T2 and quickly swapped spit with my wife and let the kids take some sweat off my chest on the way by. Give your rule waving heads a shake, people, and use some common sense. This was not cheating, pacing or anything within the OP's control, regardless whether he knew the monkey or not. Full stop. Good grief, I can't believe how myopic some people can get.

Dave

Ape And Coffee
Russell Edson

Some coffee had gotten on a man's ape. The man said,
animal did you get on my coffee?

No no, whistled the ape, the coffee got on me.

You're sure you didn't spill on my coffee? said the man.

Do I look like a liquid? peeped the ape.

Well you sure don't look human, said the man.

But that doesn't make me a fluid, twittered the ape.

Well I don' know what the hell you are, so just stop it,
cried the man.

I was just sitting here reading the newspaper when you
splashed coffee all over me, piped the ape.

I don't care if you are a liquid, you just better stop
splashing on things, cried the man.

Do I look fluid to you? Take a good look, hooted the ape.

If you don't stop I'll put you in a cup, screamed the man.

I'm not a fluid, screeched the ape.

Stop it, stop it, screamed the man, you are frightening me.

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

When i found out about the penalty i was not wearing the suit. It was 90 plus out there no way I could stay in that thing that long .

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Mad%20Gorilla

My biggest problem with it, is being associated with a known cheater

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You'e opinion is only as good as your signature line
-Chris

Re: "Got a penalty because a guy in a guerilla suit ran next to me"

I love this place!

twomarks

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

That picture makes the whole penalty worth it. That's fantastic! Maybe I'll get this printed on a trisuit for Cooterbrown for his next race!

I think it's more along the lines of . . .Man gets a penalty because a gorilla ran next to him... and 180 posts later ST can't agree on anything

I was a spectator at a small 70.3 a few weeks ago.

It was late in the afternoon and I was waiting for someone to finish. I was seated in an area that you could see the last long home stretch before the athletes made a turn for the finish line. The race official came up and sat next to me and we watched the runners trickle in as he waited for the awards to start. You could see the runners for about a half mile. As we sat there an athlete made his way down the road, stride for stride with another person. As they got closer we saw it was a female companion. I could tell the official was bummed out. He told me "Oh man, she is pacing him...it looks like she has been running with him for a long time. I'm not supposed to give a warning with that" she rounded the corner and I believe even ran through the finish line with him.

The official left to go note his penalty.

To me that rule has to have some gray area. Jogging 30 strides with someone and helping give them some encouragement it not the same thing as running the last mile of a 70.3 with someone.

Did anybody else notice the dude's kit says "Big Sexy Racing"?!?!?!?!?!?

Chris McDonald's tri team.

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__________________________________________________
Follow my blog - Follow me on Twitter - Facebook Page
Powered by Accelerate3

Did anyone say that this guy did Kona yet last year? Not even a lottery but he earned a spot. He is my hero!

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Mad%20Gorilla

I don't think anyone questioned the dude's speed. Cleary he is fast to compete for a podium spot in that race.

I mean, he did beat Kevin Moats. #legit

Moats will never be accused of being illegally paced. Nobody want's to be around the dude.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

I vote you Top Contributor to this AWESOME ST thread. I almost broke a rib laughing so hard.

Cooterbrown my buddy SnapperSlapper has some advice for you. "Just say No to heel striking gorillas." He also remembers seeing you in Kona. Something about he enjoyed seeing your wife run in her underwear and that you probably should have hired the gorilla to pace you there instead of in Macon. Have you looked at your run splits in that race!!

On a serious note, I am a USA Swim official and one rule we apply that should apply to ALL competitors in ALL sports: "WHEN IN DOUBT THE ATHLETE GETS THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT!!!". You don't turn your head on clear and flagrant violations. Those are easy. But for cases where you look down the road out of T2 and see a gorilla chasing a runner you ask yourself: "is this athlete clearly and flagrantly violating any rules?" As an official if I even hesitate for just a moment to answer that question then I am trained to just answer that question as NO. After all everyone involved in USAT, including officials, should be doing everything to make our sport more enjoyable for our athletes, their families and their friends. Over officiating does nothing to improve that goal.

[/quote]
On a serious note, I am a USA Swim official and one rule we apply that should apply to ALL competitors in ALL sports: "WHEN IN DOUBT THE ATHLETE GETS THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT!!!". You don't turn your head on clear and flagrant violations. Those are easy. But for cases where you look down the road out of T2 and see a gorilla chasing a runner you ask yourself: "is this athlete clearly and flagrantly violating any rules?" As an official if I even hesitate for just a moment to answer that question then I am trained to just answer that question as NO. After all everyone involved in USAT, including officials, should be doing everything to make our sport more enjoyable for our athletes, their families and their friends. Over officiating does nothing to improve that goal.[/quote]
Well said - are our USAT officials given the same guidance? I'm still pretty new to the sport and don't know anything about how our officials are trained.

Thanks,

twomarks

I don't think the term "PaceBunny" will ever be replaced by "Pace-o-rilla" but I could be wrong

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I've seen this comment a few times now. Are you willing to say the same thing about drafting? If it's only for a one mile out of 112, what's the big deal? If they're not going very fast?

I know any time I try to draft I burn myself out trying to close the gap, and then I'm stressed out trying to ride that close to a person's back tire. I should probably be allowed to draft.

I would say use "Martins" st post idea of giving the athlete the benefit of the doubt. In the couple of Ironman that I have done there is no way to not draft at some point. (By their standards not the 3 inches from someone's tire) But when there is 2900 racers sometimes it gets bottle necked and there is no way around it. But if someone is trying to gain an advantage by sitting on a wheel for no reason other than drafting, hammer him with a penalty. But watch first and make sure that is the case.

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Mad%20Gorilla

This situation is like a bunch of bikers going up a big hill ... say like at Savageman. Yeah, by the letter of the rule, all those guys are in violations of drafting, but common sense and the spirit of the rule should override. I'd like to see this USAT official at Savageman giving out drafting violations at the top of some of those hills. We will then see where his defenders stand.

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My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

No because drafting is such a huge advantage compared to "pacing" and i'm guessing even running the last mile of race for most people will be their pace not the pacers pace. You're not going to magically start running faster the last mile of a 70.3 just because someone is running next to you for that mile.

As to the second point, yes I have always been a proponent of focusing penalties on people drafting that are "racing" not completing. We have two very distinct groups of athletes at races, one whose goal is to really go as fast as they can the other group is to do the races for fun or bucket list events. I don't know why we don't treat those groups different. Its like playing a college hockey game vs a pick up game on a pond for fun. Those are never called the same because they have different mentalities of the people playing them. I don't see why triathlon is seen so differently from that by people.

And on an even more serious note, how would you feel if after a bad call someone went on the internet to harass and bully you? Don't we has competitors have a rule about respecting the officiants?

A kid in Utah just killed a soccer ref because he didn't like the call.

We need Slowman (or Oprah if she's free) to go interview the official so we get the other side. My guess is that last week he ignored someone getting paced by her boyfriend because he didn't think it was that big a deal. Until the third place girl freaked out and took to the internet to seek vengeance.

Obviously this was a shitty call, but this doesn't seem like the right way to handle it.

In every pick up hockey game you have the asshole who couldn't cut it to play in college but still thinks he's the shit and treats everyone else accordingly. In triathlon you have officials like this clown Chad Parson who don't get enough respect at work or who don't have the authority in their everyday lives they think they should and who decide that the triathlon course is their little fiefdom where they can flaunt their power.

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__________________________________________________
Follow my blog - Follow me on Twitter - Facebook Page
Powered by Accelerate3

As a former swimmer I agree. If you think you saw it, you dont call it! Bith my folks officiated all the time and would comment on the pompus jerks who would make calls like this. Swimming in my opinion is far more professional in how meets are organised, championship host selection, etc. Swim Canada has already selected their national meet hosts through 2016. TriCan/USAT/ITU should really select venues further out to allow for better long term planning. Swimming also has way more officials per athlete than tri (non profit vs for profit?)

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Late to this thread, and perhaps this has been covered 100x before this....heel striking gorilla in NEWTONS!!!

Wasn't the guy in the OP in second place (and Kona qualifier)? Which group would you put him in?

Do you also remember the crazed parents yelling at the officials? Threatening them because little Timmy didn't make a proper two hand touch, so their little Tommy deserves the second place ribbon? How about comments like this:


Not cool. It was a bad call, there is a process to review it, leave it at that.

It's a much different scenario on the bike than on the run because of drafting and blocking and impeding other athletes.

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_________________________________________________

LLLEEEEEEEEEEEERRRROOOYYY JEEENNNNNKKKIIINNNNNS!!!

Why would this matter on the run and how would an official be able to tell if someone was holding back as opposed to just running the same pace? This scenario is handled on the bike with blocking and drafting rules. I don't see how you can enforce it on either the swim or the run in a fair manner.

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_________________________________________________

LLLEEEEEEEEEEEERRRROOOYYY JEEENNNNNKKKIIINNNNNS!!!

So glad to see this thread getting about 7X the traction and participation as the atheist/religious threads in the LR. There is still hope!

BTW, I am also a USA Swim Official and I've never seen a gorilla jump in a lane during a meet.

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Damn, that's a cold ass honkey.

Found this via the email the photog company sent out.

I just laughed because I was the guy who beat little timmy and got the first place ribbon...

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

x1

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Formely stef32

because you can run faster with a pacer. yes, very difficult call for an official to make. pretty much has to know that the two athletes know each other and that one is faster and is holding back and not just having a bad day.

Holy Shit.. I can't stop laughing. That picture is worth a 4 min penalty.

One day my kids will see this and be proud of their silly daddy then reflect on that trip to Hawaii in 2012... :-) or they will hate me for those same reasons... eitherway I'll have this picture. .. @TexasTarabay

 i love my photo shop green highlights. Does not appear gorilla is giving any special attention

[/quote]
Holy Shit.. I can't stop laughing. That picture is worth a 4 min penalty.

One day my kids will see this and be proud of their silly daddy then reflect on that trip to Hawaii in 2012... :-) or they will hate me for those same reasons... eitherway I'll have this picture. .. @TexasTarabay[/quote]

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Mad%20Gorilla

This thread is gold--I'm bummed to be joining in so late. My thoughts, for whatever they're worth at this late hour:

1. Outside assistance this is not. USAT refs should always use their discretion to judge intent and effect moreso than blindly adhering to the letter of the law. I do hope that in the unlikely event the appeal doesn't work out in your favor USAT has the decency to include a rule that specifically allows for some athletes' need to share a moment of companionship with a man sweating his balls off in a primate costume prior to embarking on the run course. The humor value is high here, and work like this should be applauded, not discouraged and penalized.

2. For those neckbeard sourpusses out there who think a gorilla could "pace" an elite athlete, I'm gonna need you to go ahead and take a lap. Or rent a gorilla that can make it the full 13.1 and actually pace you because he won't get sweaty jogging 10-minute-miles.

3. To those getting up in arms about Amadablam, I offer you this p p p piece of of advice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5kPUFxXYLs

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__________________________

I tweet!

This thread is definitely in the running for high honors. Maybe an early contender for thread of the year...I don't recall any threads generating this much heat thus far (although the troll to outrage ratio is quite high). Good stuff folks, well done...you're all aces in my book.

ZC - awesome YouTube link. Thanks for that!

Did these guys receive their national flag from an aid station or race official? Penalty? DQ?

This is simply ridiculous, what type of race would penalize fellow athletes (or a spectator and athlete) for running along with each other for a few strides??? What about the Iron War in 1989? Macca and Raelert in 2010?

http://www.youtube.com/...ed&v=L8TJXH3bcvw

However, if the rationale of the official who penalized the gorilla and cooterbrown96 were applied "to the letter" to Macca and Raelert in 2010, both of them would have been penalized...they ran together for miles, shared a sponge, AND shook hands...

SMH.....As stated above, perhaps the entire course should be closed to everyone except the athletes.....

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W

Pop's trippin'...He wants me to ask for my bike back...You know I wouldn't trip...

“no gorilla will ever run like a cheetah!” Andrew Starykowicz

I can understand if the guy was dressed as a cheetah.... but we all know gorilla's are slow.

I would love to know the rationale from the race official. Not one to bash officials, as I'm an official in several sports and it's not easy, but would love to hear his explanation to USAT as to how he felt it was justified. I've made incorrect calls on the field before and judgement calls are easy to defend(fair/foul, ball/strike..etc) but when I've made errors in a rules interpretation it's hard to justify it if called to the carpet by a player. However, in the sports I officiate(baseball/softball, basketball and football) many of my calls are "bang/bang" calls. If I had the extra second to think about a call, I'd like to think I would make less mistakes. The USAT official presumably had some time to think about this call which I can't fathom any reasonable situation where he would think that it makes sense. There jobs are not easy but it sounds like this guy went overboard.

I'm glad that you are having fun with it.

Haven't read through the whole thing but if you're going to get a penalty for having a Gorilla running with you at least do it right and dress up in a banana costume. Then the pictures and penalty would be epic.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

And.....the are both being cheered on for longer than 20 seconds. Off with their heads!

Damn look at those Legs.. just imagine how much muscle definition you could see if he would shave his fur.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

here's why he didn't have the gorilla pace him on the bike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fSfZNRlXaQ

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

The OP's kids were dressed in banana costumes at IMTX. He was the gorilla, kids were the bananas. Very amusing.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Some races just don't have a sense of humor. It's all for fun.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

We had a referee come to one of our club meetings this winter. Here's what she said. Only athletes still racing should be out on course. If someone doesn't have a chip or a bib, and is riding or running next to you, tell them to stop. It's like drafting; you get 15 seconds of time, but after that you can get a time penalty, and it doesn't matter whether you know the person or not. Some are here racing that don't have anyone with them, and just the mental pickup having someone traveling with you can give you an advantage. Tell your friends, family and coaches that they can cheer you on from the side of the road. If you want to stop to say hi to them, that's fine (but don't take any drinks from them, or hand off any clothing you don't want any more - sharing your sweat in a hug will be enough). Yes, its the cases of many minutes of pacing that's the biggest concern. But just like someone gets penalized after 20 or 25 seconds of drafting, the officials need to move on to see more athletes, which is why we're looking for any non-athlete moving at the same pace as an athlete.

I still think people make too much of the benefits of a pacer in running. It just isn't going to make you run faster than you are capable of running. I get that it is mentally easier to focus on a pacer than one's own sense of pace, but that isn't the case here, or pretty much in any of the hypotheticals that are being provided in this thread (i.e. being paced for a small portion of a long race isn't going to make a whit of difference).

This whole idea that one can't be paced by another competitor is also crazy to me - especially coming from a track background - pacing yourself off the rest of the field is the essence of racing. What is the point of having other competitors in the race if you can't race them? Imagine if there was a rule that when racing the mile on the track that everyone has to run different paces throughout the race, and no one could run beside another runner for more than 15 seconds.

Gentlemen,

fire up your photoshops, and get to work:

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

bout 12 hours late Jack

My head's about to explode... Or is the barrier between him and that zoo of costumes all he needed for the rule not to be applicable? Could Marino now challenge the non-ruling and end up as the 2013 Asia-Pacific champion?

I think this is one of the better threads on ST. I might have to brush up on my photoshop skills.

The official needs to have a good hard look at himself... sounds like a serious chap.

In the meantime, thank God Chris Legh didn't finish Hawaii '97, or he might have been DQ'd

Awesome. Well done sir, well done.

Obviously the racing group, that doesn't mean the penalty isn't stupid. Let me put it this way... do you honestly believe a person coming off the bike in second needed paced for 200 yards by a gorilla so that he wouldn't go full out sprint mode or something and blow in the first 400 yards? Furthermore, you can use a GPS watch! You have instant feedback on how fast you're going, what is the gorilla gonna do pace better than going off your own gps? This is such an absurd thread its hilarious.

That's because you're thinking about it wrong. In Miami one of the pro women was racing with her boyfriend. He got out of the water first, peddled slowly until she caught up, then paced her around the course. He obviously wasn't there to compete, and I believe he dropped out at the run, he was just there to provide on course support for his girlfriend who went on to get second. Eventually WTC had to make a clarification about the rule to make sure people knew this wasn't allowed.

It's supposed to be an individual sport, with a rule preventing outside assistance. Obviously this situation in the OP doesn't count as outside assistance, but it ends up violating the rule.

Agreed, and there is a process involved, that shouldn't involve going online to bully and harass a USAT official.



It's not up to me to make that decision, nor do I think it's up to the official. Requiring that sort of judgment call makes the ruling impossible. We could go through all of the rules and make the same case, perhaps the EPO and testoserone don't actually help me, I'd still get banned if I took them.



Agreed, still don't like the way they treated the official.

I just ripped that from facebook, I didn't photoshop it. I just want to encourage more of these!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

This picture is photoshopped. There weren't any clouds out yesterday.

I was actually coming off the bike while OP was going out to run and still in the park and I didn't see the gorilla anywhere.

What is it with Gorillas and Ironman?
This Gorilla chased down the banana at the Underpants at Kona 2012.
He didn't make the podium but ended up with a hottie.

While I don't think bullying is a solution to a problem, but certain occupations are more inclined to criticism.

How about me? would you consider being singled out for a penalty because of my position in the race bullying? What about when the ref threatained to pull my USAT card when I protested his call?? What's that called ?

The use of the word "bullying" is getting out of hand. No where do I see in any of these thread the official being bullied. No wet willies, no noogies, no swirlies. He didn't get his shorts pulled down in front of the class. The original post stated what the athlete felt was a bogus call, and one that should have used a little judgment. I do not see any bullying here, They are opinions of the call made by an official. I admit I did not read every single post, But enough to see that this thread at no time got out of control as many online threads can. If anything I thought it was well maintained and hopefully one that will be used by officials to think about what their job is, Protect the integrity of the race.

There is the letter of the law and the spirit. If we use the letter than every athlete that runs the last 1/4 mile with their family should be penalized. Although last weekend at Tri Columbia I did watch a girlfriend run the last 1/4 mile in sandles and her purse across her shoulder next to her boyfriend, of course yelling and screaming the whole way, even went down the very narrow finishing shoot to the finish line. He should have been penalized for not shoving her off the course into the lake. In my opinion someone running the last 1/4 can help more and get you to dig just a little more and possibly make a pass in the finishing stretch, coming out of t2 you still have a lot of race left.

I fully understand the 100 protest fee, You have to have something in place to keep those that are not in the running of places and qualifying spots from protesting every infraction. Results would never get finished and we all know that we want them posted ASAP. Usually before we get home. In this instance it sounds like the 100.00 fee would have been well worth it, and let the official make his statement and see if it holds water.

Not photoshopped.. just shows how little he actually ran with me.. he stopped running just past the tents.

I was more of making fun of how there was no shade or cloud cover during the run.

Did you see the vultures going at the dead armadillo around mile 3.5? I had a feeling they would come for me if I slowed down.

Man, if any official event photographer processed all of his/her images with that shitty overdone HDR, I'd be pissed.

And yet another kona drop.. if bifff were to search all those pictures in front of the white sheet at the underpants run he would find a family of 4 putting on a gun show. Me, my 2 boys, and my wife that played an instrumental role in all monkey business. . Superman undies I think... @TexasTarabay

Gotcha!!! Well played..

Love threads like this - points to so many things that cause confusion in triathlon and, how we get out on the slippery slope so fast.

- Triathlon and triathletes want to be taken seriously. So we have rules for the sport - like most sports. Except, when that rule applies to ME, somehow, it's suddenly a ridiculous rule.

- Part of the issue is that many triathlons are a serious race up front and a participatory party at the back - do the rules apply equally across the whole race field?

- Laid on top of that we have race officials, who think, even a local triathlon is like the Olympic games, and act so in terms of rule enforcment with no discretion at all. True Story - I was ounce penalized for running the wrong way in the transition zone at a race!

Having said all of the above, with regards to the outside assistance rule, even at the elite/pro level, in certain races right on up to the biggest ones in the sport, there is flagrant abuse of this rule. They go over it at EVERY Pro meeting, but out there on the run, there are the coaches, husbands, girlfriends, and assorted others all doing it - following along. I'm not going to name names, but I've seen blatant abuse of this at Ironman Hawaii, almost every year!

We saw this with the family/kids-in-the-chute issue. It was cute and cool, when the odd Pro or AG'er did it with their kid, but when over half the race field started to do it (something that was clearly not allowed from the get-go), with now serious risk of injury to someone, and common-sense tossed right out the window, races had to start to clamp down on it.

Triathletes, and triathlons, need to decide what they are and what they are doing. Is it a serious race, or is it some kind of party festival, celebration kind of a thing like the Color Run or the Zombie runs. The issue right now, is that they are trying to be both, and that's when the problems start.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

then they got it from this thread ... I didnt expect it to go viral ;)

What is most disturbing is who called in the infraction. This Pro should have been doing hill repeats instead.

He did a lot more than pace her. First he actively blocked the women in front of her to slow them down, then he gave her a draft around the whole course. Even if they were legal distance the whole time, there is still a benefit. In a recent training ride, GC measured my DdA as .215 when I was out front and .18 at legal drafting distance behind someone in aerobars.

The Gorilla Affair is NOT the same thing. There was no performance benefit intended or received. It's just fun, and makes the race more fun for everyone there, until the official decides that he does not like fun and he is going to do something about it goddammit!

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Good points all. I think a large part of the problem is that nowhere can I find a definition of "pacing" in the USAT rulebook. Just throwing that word out there alone is opening up a huge can of worms for anyone to define it as they see fit. It seems most people on this thread agree that running with somebody for a hundred yards or so isn't pacing; it's more like mobile cheering. Like my example of an Oly on Sunday...I can see little advantage to the woman in front of me who had a dude come out from the sidelines and run along side her, cheering her on towards the finish. To some on this board, that constitutes a penalty worth infraction; I don't think so. I fail to see how that was really any different if the guy had stood rooted in one spot and cheered her on. To me, pacing is a sustained, pre-planned effort to have somebody to run with for at least a mile or more.

Spot

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

NICE!

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

penalties shouldnt be awarded to those being paced by people in full gorilla suits...if anything, the gorilla should be given a Kona slot as well if he can pace a Kona qualifier through the whole damn run in a gorilla suit.

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Rattlesnake Blake
With the "Venom Enom"

I agree. But where do you draw the line? As I said, you get out on that slippery slope quickly - commonsense get's tossed out the window and then you have chaos, that either tramples completely the concept of fair-play or comprises safety. As we saw with the kids/family-in-the-chute issue, many triathletes, have a poor sense of commonsense, and the WTC had to step in. They were called all kinds of nasty things for doing this, but in reality, they were only, reinforcing a rule that was already there that made complete sense - competitors only on the course, please.

If that's the experience you want, then find a triathlon event that is more lenient in this area, or go do an event like the Color run or all these other new MOB events that are totally about all of this and have few rules or restrictions on anyone.

Now I am sounding like an ass, but, as I said, people need to decide what they want. When they have start line and they take times, and record places at the end, it's a race, it's a competition. There are rules. That's the deal. It's not like this is unknown.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Your point makes sense, but I don't think it applies in this case. The OP did not ask to be "paced" by a man in a gorilla suit. His wife arranged this, without his knowledge. How can someone be penalized because a person starts to run alongside them? What should he have done? Stopped running? Knocked the gorilla over? This isn't a case of someone who should be doing a Mud Run because he just wants to have fun. The OP is a Kona qualifier and finished on the podium in this race.

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"Honestly, triathlon is a pussified version of duathlon on that final run."- Desert Dude

I found in my basketball days that the best officials were the ones you hardly noticed were even there while the worst ones were blowing their whistle constantly. I suspect you've got the same thing going on here. The guy's getting paid to be there, so in his mind he's not doing his job unless he's giving out penalties like tic tacs.

His wife arranged this, without his knowledge.

That's unfortunate. If the guy is at the Kona Qualifier level, then in this sport he's at the more "serious" end of the competitive spectrum. The rules apply more strictly to him. Again, at the risk of being an ass, he should have known, this and he while his wife did this in good faith and conscious to "help" him, she should have known about this as well.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog