Well, that entirely depends on your cycling. I would do a search. There are a number of posts on this topics and you will hear people recomending 23's -27's. What do you normally ride? Do you train on similar terrain? Remember, nothing new on race day ;)

FWIW I will be riding a 12-25. I am sure that I could complete the course just fine on a 23, but it will be nice having an extra gear the last ten miles of that bike course.

My last recommendation would be that if you are in fact going to change your gearing for the race, do your long ride this weekend on your race gearing. In fact, I would do every ride from here until race day on your race gearing.

Mis dos pesos. Good luck!! I'll be up there this year too.

A few questions:

What is your FTP?
How long do you plan for the ride?
What is your history in the marathon?

This would be my range of answers:

• 5:30 or less 39x25
• 5:40 or less 39x27
• 6:00 or less 34x25
• >6:00 34x27
• >6:30 GET A TRIPLE

Bottom line is that the gearing should be matched to the abiliity of the rider, if not, the rider will be riding at 55 RPM to stay below their 70%FTP pace on the hills :-)

I plan to ride a touch under 6 hours and will have a compact with an 11-26 on the back. Last year I rode with a 53/39 and a 12/27. I would bring all the gears that you have so you can spin the hills back into town.

Chris, you need to show up with an 11/19 corncob in the back and a 60/48 pizza plate combination...come on man, with that gearing you can gain 10 min on each Keene descent and then simply stand up on the 60/11 combo and your Zipp 808 should turn 6 revolutions per pedal stroke and you'll catapult back into town for the marathon (@ 300% FTP...)

Wow!
I did LP last year with the Lucero with probably at least 39x25 and more likely 39x22 (got the the Lucero the week before from Dave Harju and I had not clue about gearing at the time) in 5h56 and probably blow up a bit (the brain did blow up for sure, the legs probably) on the mary @ 4h13.

If only I had the proper gearing......

Good to know for next time.. maybe IMLP09....

Fred.

Bottom line is whatever "small gear" you NEED (vs have) for Whiteface over 1 hour is what you need on Papa Bear after 6+ hours of exercise (swim+ bike cumulative time)

Anyone who cannot ride 60/11 from whiteface back to town is obviously a poseur.

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Team Medique Powered by Silber Investments

last time I did IMLP(04), I had a triple and a 12-27. This year, doing it on a tri-bike with double and 12-27. For a middling rider(expect a 6:30-ish split) who tries to stay in the saddle and not hammer the climbs, having the 27 is nice. I see lots of folks with doubles standing up on the long climbs, which just kills you. They should likely have trips or compact cranks.

If you are planning on 6-ish ride, you probably don't need the 27. It's always nice to have a bail-out gear, so a 12-25 might not be a bad idea.

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Are your recommendations for 700c or 650c wheels? Or it makes little difference?

I have a 650c bike.

With a 39 x 23, Sheldon Brown says that 80 rpm is ~ 10 mph. 60 RPM is ~ 7.5 mph.

Will I really be riding below 8 mph on some of those hills? Where I'm from that is pretty steep! In my area, if I fall below 15 mph I feel like I'm on a moutain...this is going to be fun...

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"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

There are a few place on the course where the hills are quite steep. I think that the steepest is the short hill on the out-and-back. Better than 8% grade for a 100-200 yeards if memory serves. And the last several miles of the loop are generally up, with the 5 big hills at the end. I believe that the whole course is ~6,000 vertical feet of climbing.

I can only speak for myself, but I know there are places on the course where I will be glad to roll along at 10 mph.

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Dev,

Last year only 964 out of 2138 finishers got off the bike in less that 6 1/2 hours. Are you saying that the other 1174 all should have been on triples?

I've done a ride that has ~7500 vertical feet in ~ 60 miles of riding several times on my 39 x 27. Parts of it are hard but I can do it. What's going to happen to me at LP?

I plan to ride 5.1x or so and will be bringing a 11-28 SRAM. Good gearing for the down hills and a just in case gear. Infact I always try to ride with the widest range of gears. No shame in gearing here.

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Looking like a color blind super hero!
Damn triathlon.

I agree, I found this post a bit 'elitist'...so are you saying most of the LP field should be on a triple??? can't see that.

Not sure I could get a 60/11 moving without falling over unless there was a pretty good hill. Hoping to be "manly" by doing a lot more running than last year at the end rather than hammering those little hills back into town which sure seem like actual hills at the end of loop 2.

BTW how much difference is there between having a triple and a 34/26 anyhow...imagine it is pretty similar

How is it elitist to suggest that most people are overgeared? He's right, most of the LP field should be on triples. It's not a value judgement, only a statement of fact.

I rode 52-39/12-25 and NEVER took it out of the big chainring in the front. I am from Chicagoland so it is not like I was used to the hills, but for me low cadence(< 70) works the best.

It totally depends on how you ride.

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Swim - Bike - Run the rest is just clothing changes.

Dev,

Last year only 964 out of 2138 finishers got off the bike in less that 6 1/2 hours. Are you saying that the other 1174 all should have been on triples?

I've done a ride that has ~7500 vertical feet in ~ 60 miles of riding several times on my 39 x 27. Parts of it are hard but I can do it. What's going to happen to me at LP?

This is a combined response, and I agree with Muffintop who said that yes...half the field should be on a triple. It is not an elistest statement just a statement of fact.

You guys want to ride with Lance armstrong gearing with a 200W FTP, go ahead and fill your boots and ride with a 39x23. Don't come back crying when you are walking half the marathon. This course has nearly 7000 ft of vertical. Respect for this course starts with mating your gear selection to your engine....

I was top 50 out of T2 last year and did a 5:28 bike. I had a 34x25 and used it often. And I only weigh 140 lbs. If I guy my size needs that gearing, trust me, most of the field is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay overgeared for their FTP.

I've done Ironman Lake Placid 8 times, had 4 good races and blown up 4 times. I've ridden the full 2 loop course over 20 times in training sessions. If you want to ask a real world age grouper about what gearing to use, who actually has experience on this course, with a real world engine with non PRO lame ass FTP, then consider my input.

If you think you have Rappstar FTP when you only have 70% of Dev FTP, then feel free to use Rappstar gearing :-)

Dev

Hi,

A double 39-53; 11-27 works great. This is what I used the last 4 times, and it seems to give me all the top and low end that I need.

Stephen J

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I believe my local reality has been violated.
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Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2

That is VERY helpful and surprises me. I thought I would be fine this year for training coming up with my 34/23. Thank gawd i have a new 12/25 in my basement. :)
Thanks Dev.

rode a 11 X 23 in 2003 and a 12 X 27 in 2006. My view is its better to have the 25 or 27 and not use it rather than wanting it and not having the gear.

This would be my range of answers:

• 5:30 or less 39x25
• 5:40 or less 39x27
• 6:00 or less 34x25
• >6:00 34x27
• >6:30 GET A TRIPLE

Dev,

Great advice. Having ridden IMLP a few times as a training ride. I would agree completely.

It's not what others are using, it's what you need!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I agree.

The reality is that most bikes are spec'd for racers, not real riders. So the double set-up is the standard, because it is what racers use(and cheaper to make). I think one reason for the success of compact cranks is that it allows for the gearing of a triple with only two chainrings. It's manly, but geared right.

If you look through the many threads on the topic of cadence and optimal cycling strategy, and you believe that you should always be spinning at 80-100 rpm, and at a steady output, then the number of people turning over real slow or standing on the pedals is an indicator that many people are overgeared.

And on the subject of saving me money, why do bikes sold in New England come spec'd with 11-23's? Seriously, who rides that?

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With that experience, what would you say was the difference between the good ones and the bad ones? Any particular mistakes the caused the bad ones which you have learned to avoid? Any strategies/approaches that you found were the key to the good ones? Was the difference training? Weather, etc?

Are you running the 11-28 on a Shimano or SRAM RD? I have an 11-28 and my shop cannot get it to shift properly with my DA RD and Zipp Wheels.

Bob

I'm expecting a bit over a 6-hour ride, and I will be using a 50/34 on front and 12/27 in back. Works for me!

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My business-eBodyboarding.com

You can check my splits on sportstats to get a gauge of what went on, but there were many factors. I'll try to summarize in a few bullets the 4 blowups were cumulatively caused by the following (hard to summarize 4 sub par Ironman races in a few bullets).

1. Pace early in the race that was no supportable by training (aka not checking in my ego with my dry clothes before the race started)
2. Racing other people in my age group early in the race instead of just doing what my body will sustain...if I feel good with 10K to go in the run, that is the time to race...not 10K into the bike...
3. Nutrition, either poor timing or not enough at the right time, or pace that exceeded the absorption ability
4. Taking the hills too hard. When you think you are going too easy, you are likely 1 gear too hard...
5. Too Low salt intake
6. Too much fluid intake
7. Lack of swim training, which meant burning too many matches in the swim (and not adjusting pace)
8. Dehydration from long sleeve wetsuit in 80 degree water and not coming back from the initial dehydration in the swim
9. Poor gear selection...being overgeared for my FTP resulting in messing up item number 3
10. Thinking about Kona/PB 2 hours into the race instead of focusing on the task at hand...the time to think about Kona is only after they put up the results after crossing the finish line....aka "let the race come to you".

after irontour, i keep imagining that those, oops, you poor suckers will be riding the course the other way around, and that the gearing discussion is about riding up the hill from keane, not those rinky-dink staircases in the other direction :)

i've never met a person who honestly regretted having lower gears available. i'm not an IM racer, but i've done much longer bike events than IM and i know that even there, where the "marathon" translates into several hundred more miles still to go, being able to gear down and get to something that really really lets you spin up a hill is a critical part of finishing in decent shape.

39x29 .... use it, or ride my tail after mile 200 :)

I would pay Graham Fraser big $$$$$$ to flip the route the other way so that we climb up Keene and ride down the bears...that would rock big time....and we would not even have to wait to the marathon to view the impact of people being overgeared...it would become crystal clear 90 miles into the bike!!!

90? how about 40? training to ride a few little hills when you're tired ... anybody can do that anywhere. training to ride up a hill like keane ... its psychologically so different that the gearing would only be the first of several problems people would face.

I'm heading up to watch the race and do some training for Louisville and would like to ride the course backwards a few times--can it be done on an 11-23? I don't know if I have a 12-27 but might be able to borrow one.

Just rode last tues after a one loop swim, 53/39 with 11-28. rode in 3:08 and will probably cover it all around the 6:30 mark. Now way of determining watts as my PT is still being built. Avg hr was 157 with a LT number around 172-175. FWIW I was able to run a loop in 2:00 on comfortable legs.

Jim

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eganski, you could ride it on an 11x21. with a 53x42 up front. a mere mortal might want at least a 39x25 on there if you plan to do anything else that day. here's the thing: this is so unlike any hill we have near philadelphia, and so unlike anything you can do on the CT ... be sure to do Whiteface once while you're up there, you won't regret it. you have to start late in the day.

Good stuff thanks.

hell, these guys got me thinking I need to bring my mountain bike to ride the race course.

Eganski, if you are heading up to LP, you GOTTA ride Whiteface.

Right now, Lavery has the ST age grouper "time to beat" with a 50.44. Keep in mind that he BEAT Dave Harju who was up Whiteface in 52.xx. Dave previously WON Ironman Wisconsin, and is no slouch on the bike.

If you ride the loop backwards, don't ride it that way on race day, do it the day before...they are getting irate with spectators doing this as there are 100's going backwards compounded with 1000's of racers going forward...in the midst are cars trying to get by.

Dev

If the majority of the field wants to actually start running the run instead of walking it, MTB class gearing would not be far off a reasonable range. I know a pile of guys who finish in the top 30-100 who either use a 27 or are on a 34-25 combo. There is no shame in having tin cup "wimpy gearing" to ensure that you have a crack at a solid marathon.

It is one thing to ride the race course, another thing to ride it and then follow it up with a marathon. In line with what Dawhead said, just imagine that you have to select gearing to ride 3.5 loops of LP and not just 2. Now what gearing do you pick?

Dev

You're riding your bike to get to the start of a marathon. I think if many age groupers had that plastered on their aerboars, you wouldn't see the amazingly poor "runs" from MOP bikers coming in at 6:30. And that starts by not burning your candles from both ends.

And to put in perspective, only 267 people ran under 4:00 hours last year. So, yeah, about half the field would stand to benefit from having a compact or easier gearing.

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Dev,

Last year only 964 out of 2138 finishers got off the bike in less that 6 1/2 hours. Are you saying that the other 1174 all should have been on triples?

I've done a ride that has ~7500 vertical feet in ~ 60 miles of riding several times on my 39 x 27. Parts of it are hard but I can do it. What's going to happen to me at LP?[/reply]

I would like to ride Whiteface as well, I'll do a search on how/when to get there.

I would never ride the course on race day, it drive's me a little nuts seeing people out there who aren't racing, though to each his own.

Best response I have EVER seen at SLOWTWITCH>Congratulations DEV!!Everyone should google "BICYCLE GEARING FOR WISCONSIN HILLS"It has a great computer analysis for gearing-insert your weight (combined bike and body with gear),cadence, hill gradient. watts .It then gives you the gear inches(calculated with front and rear sprockets and wheel size).With dev's 34/25 he can spin up a 8.5% grade at 75 rpm's using 230 watts.The average age grouper (170 lb with 25 lb bike water and gear)needs about 325 watts to get up that 8.5% grade at a cadence of 70 with a standard 12/23 cassette.This is far too much unless than cyclist has a huge ftp.With my 180 pound body (race weight) I need a triple to maintain a reasonable cadence up hills. In the Muskoka Chase I had a 34/29 setup which was not nearly enough since I frequenly saw 450 watts at a cadence of 70 on my SRM.Waaayy too much for someone trying to maintain 170 watts.Dev is right on.If you are a 7 hour Lake Placid rider like me Get a triple.The dura ace or ultegra triples shift great,better than a compact since there isn't as much space between the front gears.A few years ago Heras and discovery destroyed everyone on a particularly hard climb in the VUETA using triples with 12/25 rear gears.There is nothing to be ashamed about using a triple.If a light athlete like DEV uses a compact many of the rest of us who less fit, heavier ,and older should follow DEV"S advise re the triple.Dev-if you are ever in Kinston ON look me up for a dinner .I would like to meet a SLOWTWITCH legend.

Dev,

Thanks for this response. I was there riding this weekend as part of my recon for the race. Did the loop once on Sat and the full course on Sunday. I'd have to say that it was extremely difficult and IMHO much harder than IMMOO. I was riding 39x25 and was for the most part fine, but i'm really considering switching to a compact for the race. Also, on the drive back to Michigan yesterday I was thinking about overall strategy. Besides the obvious for me (trying not to be a one-loop wonder), I was wondering what your bike strategy was when you had your best bike splits, combined with your best run afterwards. Did you ride hard and lose some on the run or do the opposite? Do you try to make up time between Keene and Jay and then again upto the turn left towards Wilmington? The first 10 miles of the loop are demoralizing too.

E

I'm not Dev, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last nite, so here's my $0.02 on the LP course:

Take it easy on the first loop.

Easier said than done.
You will feel like a stud on the climb outta town, just being glad to be on the bike, raring to go, legs fresh, tapered, psyched, etc.
You will want to big ring it, or at a minimum be in the middle of the cluster in back on the small ring. Don't do it.

When you get done w/ the YEE-HA descent into Keene, and get on the flats going to Upper Jay and Jay, you will feel like an AERO CYCLING GOD.
You will want to go fast, because you can, and because your legs just got a nice 10 min rest. Don't do it.

When you make the left and start climbing towards Wilmington, you'll want to stand and hammer, because all the other cool kids are doing it.
Don't.

You'll finish the out-and-back (don't be stupid there, either - and DON'T DRAFT), and then start past Whiteface, and then hit High Falls Gorge, then the Cherrys and the Bears.
You will think, this ain't so bad, I'll just big-ring it thru here, no problemo. They aren't hardly even hills.
And with crowds cheering on Papa Bear like the Alpe d' Huez, you will want to stand and hammer that bad boy....

Suddenly, you are on the 2nd loop. The first loop goes by VERY quickly, you will be amazed.
And just as suddenly, that climb outta town feels a LOT longer, and a LOT steeper. Who turned up the gravity?
Ditto for the climb to Wilmington, and the out-and-back goes on for a lot longer, and that hill coming back on it seems a whole lot longer and steeper this time...

You get the drift.


My suggestion is to attempt to have as little a positive split on the 2 loops of the bike as is humanly possible.
3-5 mins is ideal. Once you get up over 10 mins positive split, yer looking at spending lots of quality time on the 2nd lap on River Road...
The only way to actually achieve this is to do the first loop w/ plenty in the tank so that you can crank up the RPE a tad on loop 2, since you will end up doing that just trying to maintain the same pace from loop 1.


And yes, the same general advice goes for the swim and the run too. Even pacing, minimal positive splits.



To the original question: I think Dev's suggested gearing chart is pretty spot on.
I ran a 12-25 w/ standard 53-39 up front, but I'm also a FOP rider, so YMMV.
I never used the 25, but I always like having a bailout gear, just in case...
Better to have it, and not need it, than need it, and not have it.

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float , hammer , and jog

Thanks for the awesome response. You answered exactly what I was looking for regarding whether or not to hammer the section after the long descent and the flats between Upper Jay and Jay. And, especially about positive splits and even pacing. I'm not looking foward to the 11 miles back into LP and then the subsequent climb out of LP at the beginning of the 2nd loop. It is just a grinder! Ugh! What have I gotten myself into?

E

How can you NOT hammer pappa bear? With everyone cheering and knowing town is very close. I nailed it both loops and the legs were fine. I ran a 12X26 and never went lower than 23.

Depends on your strength. 12X26 was perfect for me.

Did LP once. Used 50x34 crank with a 12-25 cassette. Ran 3:25. Recommend the compact setup.

Murphy's Law is SPOT ON.

Great Advice.
+1

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Proud Member of the Guru Cartel, EH?

What did you do on the bike with the compact setup

QUOTE OF THE MONTH FROM MURPHY'S LAW:

"Ironman LP Loop 2: Who turned up the gravity?"

...and this is the reason for my gearing recommendation. ML's race strategy plan is perfect. Follow what he said. On loop 1, every time you feel like going hard, imagine that ML is standing beside you saying:

"Ironman LP Loop 2: I'm turning up the gravity?"

This is all you need to know. This is his secret plot to make us all suffer on July 20th. He is turning up the gravity...blame it on him and to save yourself use my gearing recommendations!!!

Dev

I'm just a 47 year old poser, but here is what I will be doing. I will be running a 27 granny gear and 39/53 on the front. This permits me to spin, spin, spin. If I had quads like Dev and Murphy's Law, I wouldn't use anything bigger than a 23 with a 39 on the front....... but I don't.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Nice narrative Mike and all very good points.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Sheet - I just thought ya' ran to hard...

One Konaexpress quad = 2xDev's waist size

if anyone has any doubt that people have the wrong gearing in lp (and ride the course too hard), then go out to the middle of the out-and-back along the river on the run and see all of the walking going on.

Carbonsport, thanks for reinforcing my point. If a 140 lbs guy with ~260W FTP needs a 34-25 to get up the steeper grades in LP at ~ 75-80 RPM without going hard, then the >6:30 guy really benefits from the triple.

There is no shame in using a triple. I used one on Alpe d'Huez to do my PB there. The lowest gear on the triple was 32x27. I went 58. With a 39x23 Lance went 37. Lance's FTP say ~500W while mine was ~260W (he was also ~10Kg heavier). If anything, I was overgeared, with a 1.18 gear ratio, vs Lance at 1.69...or we could look at the times and say that 58/37 = 1.56 and gearing is 1.69/1.18 = 1.43....so Lance went 1.56 times faster than me, using gearing that was only 1.43 time larger...in other words, he was doing higher RPMs than me all the way up.

So as you can see, the low end gearing is really based on your FTP and weight. The higher power to weight, the bigger gear you can use. I'd probably have needed a 32x29 to have the same relative gearing as Lance on Alpe d'Huez...think about this for a moment.....I'd basically need a 1:1 gear ratio to be geared the same as Lance to match my engine on Alpe d'Huez...now do you guys really think that suggesting a triple for a >6:30 rider is unreasonable?

Dev

what Dev said is right on
he learned me going reverse course at imlp
little is better for gearing

Dev-thanks for your kind reply,I'll introduce myself at Lake Placid.I probably will be riding something really different-A Titanflex srm compact (48/34) with a shimano 9 speed and an XTR LONG CAGE derailleur with a 12/34 cassette.This gearing might be good for you at MT Washington with it's final 23%grade!!! I probably will benefit from it at Placid.

Carbonsport, I used the 48/34 front chainring combo at LP last year. Unfortunately, I can't find a 48 tooth big ring for my Ritchey cranks! a 34 inner ring and 34 big cog would have been the right gearing to put me in proportion with the Lance Alpe d'Huez gearing for my FTP. 34-34 on Mt. Washington might be overgeared for me...I think I would need a big rear cog that is larger than the inner ring!!!

I've been watching this thread for a day or so and have been laughing my ass off at some of the responses. Apparently as a 35 year old my 53/39 with a 12/27 means that I am going to ride a 6:30 bike split. What a bunch of bullshit. I plan to ride a 5:40-6:00 controlled bike split to save my legs and then run my ass off for the marathon. What my "holy shit you're a wussy" gearing means is that I have all the gears I need and then some.

Jesus, I can totally see people reading this thread and then changing their gearing to have a higher opinion of themselves or so that seem more manly...Christ, what crap. The last two race divisions I have won, the leader into T2 didn't hang on during the run becuase he wasn't smart on the bike.

Sorry to rant, but sheesh, threads like this drive me nuts...

Bob

Maybe you are missing something. No one said in this thread that your gearing determines your bike split. Your bike split more or less is determined by your FTP power, pacing and your weight. Everyone needs gears that match their FTP power to weight ratio for the steepest parts. What is so difficult to understand about this...and yes, if you have a 39x27 small gear and plan to ride around 5:40 and perhaps have a FTP/weight ratio in the ~4W/Kg range, looks like your gearing is in the range that you will not cook your legs for the marathon.

By no means do your gears determine your bike split...in that case, I go out and get a 60-11 and then I magically go to 4:35 and beat Larsen's bike split :-)

Dev:

By no means and I trying to start anything or being a prick, but didn;t you post this:

"A few questions:

What is your FTP?
How long do you plan for the ride?
What is your history in the marathon?

This would be my range of answers:

• 5:30 or less 39x25
• 5:40 or less 39x27
• 6:00 or less 34x25
• >6:00 34x27
• >6:30 GET A TRIPLE"

You are intimating that your time and gearing are related....

And, FWIW, I am 5'10 and wigh 200lbs. I could go out and hammer the hell out of the bike course and post a 5:30-5:40 or so. But, I won't. Insted I'll put my ego in check and hold back, using easier gearing so that I have a lot left for the run.

And, if people think the "steepest" parts of the LP course are that steep, they need to reconsider. The worst grade is about 8% and that is on the Bears and Cherry's I believe. What makes people think the course is steep is their lack of gearing.

IMHO FTP and all that can go out the window for me in my plan. As I said, my goal is to ride the bike nowhere near the edge of my potential so that I can rip the run. Many people forget the bike sets up the run and they should plan accordingly.

Bob
Bob

I don't know anything about the LP course, and I know next-to-nothing about triathlon--but I wouldn't go putting a triple on for one race unless I were riding it a lot before the event. Changing Q-factor right before a 100+ mile ride (after which you have to run) seems like a really bad idea to me--and most triples are quite a bit wider.

If a 33-28 isn't low enough, I'd set the shifter to friction, and put a long cage MTB derailleur on there and go with a 33 up front and an 11-34 mtb cassette in the back. This is cheaper, will shift better, and won't mess with the q-factor of the crank. If a 25 inch gear is still too big, I'd get off and push--it would probably be faster.

now do you guys really think that suggesting a triple for a >6:30 rider is unreasonable?
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Dev,

I didn't mean to suggest that what you are saying is unreasonable. I was surprised to hear you say that more than half the field should be on a triple since I doubt more that 10% will be. By your standards, I'm going to be overgeared. I'm riding a 39 x 27 as my easiest gear and will try to pace myself for a 6:30 bike split (6:00 would be nirvana!). At this point I'm just going to have to see how it goes as I am not going to re-gear my bike this close to the race (all my longest and steepest rides were done on this gearing). I hope I make it (for my own sake, not to prove anything to you). Hopefully we'll meet in LP (ST get together).

Thanks for your comments, you've giving me something else to worry about :-)

please post after the race what your bike split and, more importantly, your run split are. arrogant 200lb guys who don't respect the bike course usually have a rude awakening when they are walking into town on loop 1 of the run.

Steel -

I'll likely get flamed for this, as I did when I chimed in about the IMCDA course and asked a similar question. An answer maybe from a real world AGer.

I'm not an AG contender but do OK for myself, given I've only been doing tris for 3 years. I understand that IMLP is hillier than IMCDA as far as long sustained hills, but what I used at CDA was a 54/42 and 11-23 and I never got past the 42-19. But then again, I mash hills versus spin. I went 5:31, and then 3:44 in the marathon. Never sacrificed anypart of my run on teh bike by mashing. My only other tri was Florida in 2006 where I went 5:36 on the bike and 4:12 on the marathon. I was also 20 pounds heavier then!

I don't train with power, I use HR and perceived exertion. I know, old school, and totally uncool, but it took 38 minutes off the total time in 18 months, and I finished with enough left over to run 30 minutes on Monday - should have pushed harder on both the bike and run...lesson learned. My strength is the bike, and I can hang with most if its only a TT, but I back off in the triathlon. Triathlons are different.

Point here is know thyself and know thy goals. If you're not a podium finisher, (and many or most who've added comments actually are and I'd respect them if you're in that class - I'm not in their league) then you can likely just go with what has worked for you in training. If you spin a higher cadence, you'll need lighter gears. If you EVER get to a 39-23 on ANY hill, get smaller gears - you always want that extra gear, and if you don't climb on a regular basis, you'll probably need it. I had literally no problem wth my gearing at CDA, and didn't go nearly hard enough on the bike. I even got heckled for standing on the short rollers (and by more than a few onthe first 'long' climb out of Hayden Lake). But again, I did fine, and dropped everyone on every hill (then promptly get passed going downhill again - maybe I'm doing it all wrong - but I consider 138th fastest on the bike to be just fine). But of note is that I rarely ever use the 19, and cannot recall the last time I was ever in the 23; they are just there in case.

The other thing is whatever you plan to use, get it now and use it before you need it...you have less than a month.

My $.02 if its worth anything.

K

I don't know where you get "arrogant" out of my statements? I said, and I think you can read, that I respected the course enough not to hammer it and blow up. If I wanted to, I could hammer, but chose not to in order to save it for the run. How you get arrogant out of that is beyond me, but that's Slowtwitch for you....

And for what it is worth, I did two easy loops of the bike course two weeks ago in 6:17 and then ran 5.4 miles at 7:20 pace. The next day, after four days of training I ran the LP 1/2 marathon (On the damn run course) in 1:40.

So, in short, I rspect the hell out of the bike course, but respect the run course more and will not ride the bike as hard as possible.

making comments like you are going to "run my ass off" and "rip the run" don't exactly come across as modest. again, post your bike and run splits on this thread after the race. i don't know too many 200lb guys with your attitude who have not blown up on the run.

Will you be posting yours? Hell, do you even race or are you a peanut gallery guy?

And, if you think "run my ass off" and "rip the run" are boasting, pal you need to get out more...

Bob

i'm out for the year coming off hip surgery. i'll post next year and it won't be preceded with comments about how much i am going to rip the run despite weighing 200lb and jogging a 1:40 half. i've done lp 3x and i have the utmost respect for those little ant hills you think are the big hills on the course. going up the hill in town not once but twice on the run is a killer even for the swiftest of us.

C'mon, do you really, honestly think there are killer hills on the bike course? No, there aren't. I ride worse hills in training, but when you follow the IMLP hills with a marathon someone going to hard pays a very serious price. I know the bike course and I respect it, so don't put words in my mouth and read the other obvious bullshit boasting of others.

See ya next year sport.

Bob

C'mon, do you really, honestly think there are killer hills on the bike course?

No, there is no single killer hill on the course. However, IMLP is 6800 ft of cumulative vertical. It does not matter how you cut it. That's cumulative vertical and anyone who knows anything about cycling knows that cumulative vertical creeps up on ya and at the end makes short hills feel like the summit of Mont Venoux. In fact, over IMLP, you will be doing more climbing than riding Mont Ventoux...then you have to back it up with doing a marathon that is harder than Boston.

If you don't believe in the cumulative vertical, ride the coarse the opposite way UP KEENE...there is your answer. You have to carry 225 lbs of bike, rider, helmet, bottles and shoes up 6800 ft over the day. There is no cheating gravity....look at what Murphy's Law said, "Who Turned UP the Gravity on Bike Loop 2".

I hope you have a great race. It sounds like you have respect for the course, but I would still really recommend that you swap out the 53/39 for a 50/34 compact...its barely a $200 upgrade for this course, that will save you for the marathon. After all the $$$$$ spent preparing for the race, is $200 really that much of an insurance policy....look at it this way, even if you don't use all the gear, your 50 tooth and 34 tooth will be lighter than your 53 and 39 (OK, we are splitting hairs....but what the heck...worth a try...). Look at it this way....I'm 66% of your weight, yet my gearing is 6% easier.

Here is another data point. Mike Lavery road 5:15 last year...this year hopes to ride 5:10...gearing 39x25....do you really think that your gearing that is 4% easier than Lavery is matched to your performance target/capability?

Dev

absolutely not but if you are looking at the course that way then you just don't get it. dev's analysis of the course is spot on. it's not whether there are steep hills -- it's the total amount of climbing, which is a lot. because there isn't a single steep hill, the course teases you to go faster than you should (particularly on the first loop). many a people blow their entire race hammering the first hill out of town. it happens every year.

i don't wish anyone ill but your arrogance about gearing and running ability (i mean how does a 5:18 marathoner come on here and boast about how fast he is going to run off the bike at lp???), combined with your weight, sure seems to predict a future walk-a-thon on the run. i'd like to see you prove me wrong.

WTF? You don't know me or know anything about me, but you go and cherry pick stuff off of my blog to make me look bad. Are you that big of a freaking jackass or that stupid? Shit, do you work for the Bush Adminsitration in WMD propoganda too?

And, yep, I ran a 5:18 marathon this Janaury at Disney...with the flu...taking in no nutrition at all and puking 8 times during the race...Lost 18 lbs during the race too...You probably would have quit, but I didn't. As Rutger Beke said "What would it say to the people in the back if I quit when I wasn't having a good day?"

FWIW and not that it matters to you, but my marathon best is a 3:30 at Philly with one torn calf. I'm lighter and faster now, but I am sure that doesn't matter to you all knowing one...

You truly are a class act sport.

Bob

I don't know what you guys are talking about. I am going to ride my fixie on race day.

Aren't we all. It's the gear ratio to take that we're discussing.

What is the recommendation for gearing with 650 wheels?

If you are a strong rider I'd use a 53/38 or 39 up front and a 11-23 in the rear.

If you are not so strong move the cassette up to a 12-25 or keep the 11-23 and use a compact crank.

A few year ago when I raced IMLP I went up for a training week and later on a training weekend. Both times I took a bunch of cassettes and chain rings with me. When I when I road the course using a 53/38 and a 12/27, I never used the 27, because it was too easy of a gear. I also couldn't find the right cog I wanted to use. I really needed a closer gear ratio.

I however did not try a 39 chainring with a 27 cog.

I ended up using a 53/38 and a 11-23 (maybe a 12-23) and was fine.

Check the specs on your RD. I believe that you need a minimum of SRAM Force to support 28 teeth (and that is probably only for '08s). DA specs are limited to a max of 27 teeth.

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...
Run like you stole something
Formerly Fueled by ZYM

since you have done the course a number of times, what are your thoughts on a disc vs a dish wheel...??

i have a zipp disc, but i have a set of american classic 50 mm carbon dish wheels that are superlight....

this will be my first placid.....i rode 5.08 at IM FL in the past....with similar fitness, what might i ride at placid??

thanks....

Ride the disk. My friends who have ridden close to 5 flat at Florida go 5:25-5:30 at LP. How much do you weigh?

My plan for LP is to do around 6-6:15hr for the bike.
I'm about the same weight as Dev (145lbs), but with lower FTP.

While doing Epicman last month, I used 39X27 for almost all the hills except for the gentle climbs. Basically, anything that I felt like I need effort to climb, I went right to 39X27. It worked!

I think the key is to gear down BEFORE you feel like you are exerting too much effort. If not, doing this 50times over 112miles will catch up to you.

Felt great for most of the ride, until I had a flat tire and rode the last portion with 30psi tires, but that's a different story.

Just for reference, I did 18km run loop afterwards in 1:30. So I know, I paced myself right.

I guess if you paced yourself right, you should be able to run the marathon without walking/stopping. That's my goal at least. "Enjoy it", rather than survive it. :->

Good luck to all at LP!

i weigh 147 or so....5' 8''. Easily better suited for climbing than the flats...that is why i wondered about maximizing my climbing with a very light wheel set....