You can add US Triathletes in your thread...because everywhere, this is certainly not the case...I case it just follows the trend of the rest of the country.

Oh, it's because no one has the discipline or the right training plan like you do.

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There was an article on Ironmanlive a few months ago about nutrition during endurance training. It talked about how many people actually gain weight when training for an ironman or other endurance event, because they overeat post-workout thinking that they have burned a lot more calories than they have. If you are properly fueled during the workout, you shouldnt really have to gorge yourself at mealtime. Also a lot of people dont cut back their eating come taper time and pack on pounds right before the race.

I've often wondered the same thing. There is a point where you are training enough that it should be hard to maintain that weight. Although, I once knew a really fat guy with a serious cocaine problem so I guess anything is possible.

Lean muscle burns calories. I think I heard each pound of muscle burns about 50 cal per day to support itself. On that thery, think about how many calories a body builder would burn at rest in one day vs. a triathlete.

Also, a little fat can help with energy in longer races. I would think a short course triathlete could be a little leaner than long course.

Also, the doping endurance athletes do (or don't do, not pointing any fingers) is very different than the steroids used by body builders. The "typical" cocktail a body builder is on not only builds muscle, but aids in muscle retention during "cut" phases, as well as fighting off estrogen production.

I think it's sort of a bad comparison because we'd need a clean triathlete and a clean body builder. Getting both might be tough! ;-)

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

"Although, I once knew a really fat guy with a serious cocaine problem so I guess anything is possible."

WHAT?! how does that happen!? I think that's something we should focus on, not the extra 10 lbs triathletes carry!!

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

Swimfan, is that you?

I think it's the overuse of bento boxes ;-)


Define "fat". As compared to the general populace, hell no.

As compared to the uber-fit and/or media image of what lean and fit is, probably.


The crap that bodybuilders do to get cut and ripped for competition (and dehydrated, cuz retaining water is bad when ya wanna show off the goods) is f'n crazy, and can be very dangerous.
More than a few have died doing so.

But yes, I hafta agree, it's kinda strange to see folks who are training for say 15-20 hrs a week, who could obviously lose 10+ lbs. When I train like that, I lose weight like it was my job or something.
I guess some folks have that kinda metabolism, and some don't.
OR
Some folks think all the training is a green light to eat and drink anything and everything they want.

Still - a triathlete who is "10 lbs overweight" is still way lighter than their non-tri contemporaries.

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float , hammer , and jog

I've heard the 50cal per pound of muscle thing as well.

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Because more than anything else, triathlons are FUN! And, the environment of the sport (as compared to some people on Internet Bulletin Boards) is very open to just about anyone and everyone. The obese person who comes acorss the line in dead last place is cheered on almost as much as the winner simply because he trained for it, tried it and completed the distance. It's a very "welcoming" sport. It's also a sport that one can start out late and continue to do later in life.

Yes, I'm that former body-builder who then got married, got an over-worked over-stressed job, had kids, got lazy and got fat. From 48-in chest/29-in waist to a 46-in chest/40-in waist in a matter of only six years. I'm a good 30-lbs overweight right now at 225. I used to go to the gym to merely "work out" and that made it very easy to blow off workouts. Only until a trainer at the gym convinced me to sign up for a local sprint and invite friends and family to come cheer me on did my outlook change. "Now how do you think you'll look in front of everyone if you can't finish the race or come in dead last," he asked? And I went from "working out" to "training". I found the races were fun. The people were nice. It was cool to have people cheering you on. It felt great to set a big goal and work to achieve it. And setting some goals to compete against yourself (and others as far as standings) were not just a good measure of your success, but it was fun!

So the answer is, many of us "fat" people are in triathlons because we can, and because many of you all make us feel welcome to join in.

I am one of those endurance athletes that could easily stand to lose 10 pounds. It's laziness, pure and simple. I admit it. I have a shitty diet. I was at my lowest weight when I was just training for Oly's. Once I started training for my first HIM and IM, I started gaining weight. Did my first IM 15-18 pounds heavier than I was when I started training for it! I lost some of that, I but I am still about 10 pounds above where I was before IM training.
I do like to keep some meat on my bones, though, since I hate that too skinny, veiny, wrinkly look lots of female triathletes have. It's not all about optimizing performance for me. I want to look and feel good, too.

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Jessica

Well, I am definitely 10 pounds above my ideal race weight, but right at my "ideal weight" on charts. I have gained weight training for Ironman with a much lower caloric consumption than just about everyone else I know who is at the same training level. And they can't keep weight on! I've been working with a nutritionist, but still can't get the weight off. All whole foods, fruits and veggies, whole grains,etc. I give up! But I have a lot of empathy for people who cling on to the extra 10 pounds now...

:-P

Jodi

I agree. I don�t see many fat people doing triathlons in Sweden, but we have much lower % of the population that is fat. Unfortunately it�s changing and people are getting fatter every year.
To the Q why it�s this way. I think it�s a combination of not knowing how to eat and that people are lazy as h*ll. I don�t buy the "i have slow metabolism" speech...this is a way to fool them self so they can sleep at night.

I have a slow metabolism is the politically correct version of I'm lazy.

Its all those late night PBJ snacks! ;-)

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Pasadena Tri Club

I wish I did have the discipline or the right training plan.

Yes, I do have a peanut butter weakness!

Actually I totally cut it out of my diet for 2 weeks to see if that was my problem... and I gained 2 pounds! So I'm happy with my PB&J

:-)

Jodi

That�s a nice problem. Cutting down on the fat and gaining weight. This must mean that eating fat keeps you slim :-D

That's not as unreasonable as it may sound. A optimal amount of fat in the diet can be helpfull. Fat delays gastric emptying and therefore gives one the feeling of being satisfied. High carbohydrate/low fat diets, on the other hand are emptied very quickly from the stomach, so that one can consume massive amounts of carbohydrate calories without feeling full or satisfied.

Are you saying that we are misguided mongrels, unlike the Nordic master race?

I limit myself to one jar of nutella per week. That way, I can stay under 140lbs :D
Also, not more than 1 piece of cheese per meal. Ice cream only 3 times a week.

I hate you. ;)

>>To the Q why it�s this way. I think it�s a combination of not knowing how to eat and that people are lazy as h*ll.<<

Wow thanks. Now I know I'm lazy.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

There are a lot of problems.

-people join the sport not as athletes to begin with but as a way to get in shape and lose weight (ok, that's not a 'problem,' per se. that's a good thing)
-people overestimate the amount of calories that they burn during a workout
-they use their training to justify and not change their bad eating habits
-along the same lines, people use food as a reward for working out
-Americans in particular work long hours, sleep very little, and lead very stressful lives, which is not good for health
-we live in a culture where it is becoming more and more the norm to be overweight

but i think it's pretty obvious that at the top levels of the sport (both among pros and AG'ers) that you won't find too many overweight people.

"You can add US Triathletes in your thread...because everywhere, this is certainly not the case...I case it just follows the trend of the rest of the country."

Agree. Have done Ironmans bith in US nad Europe. Not only are trhe athletes in Europe fitter, but they do it on bikes half the price.

We pride ourselves on our freedom, yet we have self-imposed slavery. Do we need to break these chains? Work less, sleep more, exercise more? And more important, keep things in perspective and have fun.

I work for a U.S corporation with customers around the globe. It seems like every time I turn around some guy in England or Sweden or Australia is telling me ' well we can get back to this in 2 days, it's a bank holiday here tomorrow'

wish I had a day off for every time I heard that.

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"the trouble with normal is - it always gets worse"

- Cockburn

I have trouble staying heavy enough =)

I could probably run faster if I lost some more weight but I think I would bike and swim slower.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

If your reference point is the U.S., then it's because people are getting bigger and fatter.

I was just down in the southern U.S. on business a short while ago, and I saw some of the biggest human beings I have ever seen. Tall AND overweight/fat. Wow! I now know why all the best college and High School football teams are down south. The people down their are massive!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I started taking a med based on a docs recommendation. Over the next 12 months I gained 20 pounds. Training and eating did NOT change. I've been off of it for about 6 months. I've lost 10 of those pounds. The med, messed up everything. It had a ton of side effects. I'm off it but its taking awhile to get the body back to where it was before.

SO, when you see me 10 pounds over weight, don't be so fast to pass judgement as to why!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Paul

I know several ironman triathletes who could easily be at least 10 lbs lighter. It seems the more calories we burn, the more we need to consume, and we can never trim down as low as we would like to be.

Purely anecdotal, but it seems to me most successful Ironman athletes carry a higher %body fat than sprinters or runners. Probably not 10 pounds though. Is this because they "can" or is it because they need some stored fat for endurance? Of course there are exceptions, but if you take a look at many of the top Pros and AGs out there, few have that ultra lean look. I know my husband says if he lets his weight get low, he gets injuries. BTW, he eats pretty much anything and everything he wants. He loves his beer too.

To the thread in general: On the fat = lazy subject. I don't see the need to disrespect people, just because they have different values than you.

Whether of not elitist "ultra fit" folk want to admit it, being overweight is a lot more complicated than just being lazy. Moderate exercise is important to everyone's health, but there is a lot more too it. For some people, being thin is easy, for others is very difficult. Even with a healthy lifestyle! Yes, obesity is a problem and there are very few obese people who "want" to be that way.

I know triathetes get pretty upset when they don't get respect for their values. Want to upset a triathlete? Tell him he's "too skinny". There's a pretty good case that endurance exercise isn't so good for you either. Sports Medicine is very big business these days. So far this year my husband has spent more on medical care than fat, lazy me. I don't get heath problems from being fat, I got fat after I had lost my health!

Support Crew

I'd rather be a fat (10 lbs over) triathlete than a lean bodybuilder.

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Purely anecdotal, but it seems to me most successful Ironman athletes carry a higher %body fat than sprinters or runners. Probably not 10 pounds though. Is this because they "can" or is it because they need some stored fat for endurance?

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No - Ironman athletes do not need more fat for endurance. Even a person that had only 5% body fat would have plenty of fat stores to fuel an ironman.

Peter Reid was super thin for Hawaii, and I think he is proof that leaner generally = faster. Proper fueling during the race is what matters.

I think you have to consider genetics. What works for one person may not be ideal for another.

For those that think that everyone with a couple of pounds is just lazy, kiss my ass.

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56-11...the only way to fly

With Americans it's pretty simple: what they eat and how much of it.

Like Francois said, genetics and metabolism are just excuses because they don't seem to cause the same problems to the people in their mother or fatherlands.

I guess the problem is that not all the athletes are on HGH.

I know. I was being facetious before. I'm one of those than just does not have the lean gene in my chromosomes.

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I eat more calories than I burn off.
Thanks for noticing!

Poor eating habits is another obvious answer.

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Team Zoot So Cal

"There are a lot of problems."

Perhaps we should call them challenges.

This is true- we have a LOT of fat, lazy people down south. Whenever I visit out West, I am amazed at how many fit people I see. It's like two different worlds. I tend to blend in out in Colorado vs being a "skinny" guy here. My guess is that life in the South requires less effort- no hills to walk up, drive everywhere, warm weather "forcing" people inside...

America has the best fudge world wide.

I was the one who said that over weight came from two things. 1: Not knowing what to eat and 2: Being lazy.

Saying this has nothing to do with being disrespectful of people a few kg to heavy. I�m not the kind of person that thinks that a person looks normal when looking like a tri pro, i know how a human body looks like. And knowing that means that it�s a fact that being 20 or 40 kg over weight is not "normal". I also know that some people have deceases or eating medicine that causes problems to their weight. But for 99% of all fat people in western europe or USA and Canada their over weight is not a medical problem, they just put in more calories than they burn.
Saying this loud is not disrespectful, it�s just a fact. The problem with obesity is that you can�t say anything in public, then you�re just a elitist idiot.

The thing about being lazy of course don�t apply to 100% of all over weight people but i have friends and family that are over weight and they are lazy, as more and more of the people in the west. Sitting on their asses watching tv, taking the car all the time, no training and so on...This has nothing to do with my values.

If obesity were a decide why wasn�t people this fat 50 years ago?

One last thing. Endurance exercise is good for you, but i agree that 20-30 h of training every week over a period of ten years is most certainly not good for you.

I'm 5'8" and about 160lbs. I could probably drop 10lbs, but I don't think I'd be happy and I think my energy level would drop. Here's a pic of me looking very tired the day after a race last year. 10lbs overweight? You decide (sorry about the sideways photo...can't figure out how to turn it):

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My business-eBodyboarding.com

Great post.

I think a lot of people, myself included but improving, mistake good luck in the form of genetics, health, socioeconomic birth for achievement. Yes it's true that effort can help with a lot of these things but a lot is just dumb luck and it's better to be grateful than proud.

Pat

Haven't you heard MORE is MORE. I guess it goes with food also.

How many points have you accumulated for your epic week?

Personally, I train to race well, not look good. I'm 7.5% body fat, 6'5" and 200 lbs, so am at least 5 LBS overweight against my ideal racing weight of 195, 5.5%. I look it as well--- No six pack or anything and a bit of a gut. I just find I'm more powerful with a little extra beef. I outclimb and outrun 5'10", 145 LB guys all the time. I think it's a myth that you have to be super-light to climb well or race well.

The Tour de France athletes are able to race so incredibly lean because they can boost their bodies chemically to recover faster and develop more red blood cells. Basically, they use EPO, Testosterone, and HGH to overcome nature. In my case, I get sick all the time when I'm below 7% body fat. I have a feeling most people are in that same boat--- Guys who chase that body image end up sick and weak.

-Marc

[reply]Now that I got your attention, I don't mean morbidly obese. Fat is relative, and most triathletes are much leaner than the average non atheltic person, but very few have the very low fat % needed for optimal performance.
I know several ironman triathletes who could easily be at least 10 lbs lighter. It seems the more calories we burn, the more we need to consume, and we can never trim down as low as we would like to be.
On the other end of the spectrum, there are body builders who have poor cardio fitness but extremely low body fat % when they gear up for competition.
Any thoughts?[/reply]

It is about what you eat and when you eat it.

I can't imagine what life is like from your perspective. Has anyone ever asked you what it feels like to live 90 degrees from everyone else?

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That's funny Eric. My kind of humor! Actually, I'm too impatient to download the graphics program I need to rotate that damn photo...ha, ha.

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A lot less than expected. Work got in the way after 4 days...will be for later...Probably when I head out to Xantusia.

Ok, either i misread your post or youre confused. Youre not going to be sporting a gut at 7.5% bodyfat and your abs should be pretty close to badass looking as well. Id say my bodyfat is in that range +- 1-2% and my abs look amazing. I know different people tend to cary fat in different places but i carry almost all of my fat on my lower abs, if it was there i would see it! Also i never, ever get sick at my body fat percentage or any other. Very poor correlation.

To the original poster's question, i've always wondered the same thing. I think calling a lot of people that i see training or racing "triATHLETES" is pretty generous, i usually refer to them as people who do triathlons. Having that extra weight isn't going to be beneficial in a race anyways, fat shouldn't be a huge source of fuel at any point imo. Your joints will thank you for every lb you get closer to a more athletic weight anyways, ive always ran and i bulked up(muscle wise) to 190ish previously and running then put a lot more stress on my joints compared to now at 170ish. Im not being an elitist or looking down on people who carry the extra weight but having an athletic physique serves you well time and time again.

Ive seen a lot of excuses justifying being overweight in this thread, it comes down to being lazy. You are what you eat and if you eat junk on a regular basis youre going to look the part! We all love junk food but its the easy way out. People with lean physiques got there from doing things the hard way, not genetics, not their metabolism, not epo/testosterone/or any ped, not because they dont have a busy schedule, not because they think they dont need the extra weight for races, not because they're insecure losers who need washboard abs to feel good about themselves etc.(insert given excuse) Its funny how people who are overweight get defensive about skinny or lean people judging them but they show no hesitation to throw stones given the opportunity.

At 6'5" you could easily pack on an addtional 10 lbs before anyone would notice.

I'm probably a little 'fat' for triathlons, but I like to eat and drink. I workout so I can eat and drink. I am perfectly happy with how I do in races. If I wanted to do better, I'd eat and drink a little less so I can get to my race weight (10 lbs lighter), but that's not any fun for me.

I'm guessing thos 'fat' triathletes lead a balanced life they are happy with. the triathletes I know that aren't 'fat' have a life they are happy with, but it's the balanced life I enjoy. To those triathletes, i'm sure their life has the balance they seek.

HEY! I resemble that remark

Too many triathletes are on the donut diet without enough exercise. When I stepped up my volume, I noticed my weight went down without any significant diet change. I went from 175 to 165. I've also given up any and all extra calories. If it's not helping me, I don't eat it. I'm on my way to 160 at 6'0. When I jump to 30 hours per week (cycling) in July, it'll be interesting to see my weight change.

In general, roadies are far less fat than triathletes.

Maybe it's swimmer puppy fat :)

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

My point is, focus on getting fast, not getting light. They are two different things. Fixating on weight and on how you look or on theoretical calculations that assume your aerobic capacity stays the same when your body weight drops is a mistake. For example, look at Natascha Badmann. She is absolutely not ripped-looking and she rages. She is light but not as light as she could be.

I agree that many people are overweight, but focusing on weight will not make you fast. Focus on getting fast and your body will take the shape it needs to go fast.

-Marc

[reply] For example, look at Natascha Badmann. She is absolutely not ripped-looking and she rages. She is light but not as light as she could be.
-Marc[/reply]

How do you know??

Urrr funny. I like you already.... (Tow Mater)

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fka: bassman

After the swim, I'm a fish outta water.

The answer is the same for the question "why are so there so many fat people in North America?"

Eating too much food makes people fat regardless whether or not we are active or not. If one consumes more than one uses you will pack on the pounds in excess body fat.

At the beginning of July in 2003 I weighed approximately 149 pounds. By the beginning of September 2003 I weighed 142 pounds. I lost most of those 7 pounds in a two to three week period in late August where I was dramatically over training and under nourished. That is my personal example of eating too little food while training a lot. I was exhausted all the time at that weight.

On May 28th, 2007 I weighed 172 pounds as of about 0830 hours PST. My current weight is now almost exactly 30 pounds more than I weighed in 2003. The weight gain is a product of me eating too many chips, too much unhealthy prepackaged foods and of course too many beers combined with too little consistent training.

Yestarday, I paid for my massive gain in weight during an extremely hilly road race that consisted of 11 laps of a 5.6km circuit with approximarly 130+ metres of vertical gain per lap. Needless to say I was eventually lapped by the leading trio and I along with many similar "heavy" racers were told to pack it in by the race course marshalls just before starting our 10th lap.

No I am not "fat" nor am I fit or healthy, my leg muscles are strong, but my jiggly cellulite spare tire is embarrassing when I know that I have and can do better. You know what I hate about carrying the extra fat around, its not that I look a little pudgy up top--although I do--its that yestarday an attack went on the first lap of the race and I was so smoked by the fist lap climb that I could not close it for my best friend Casey. Casey has helped me get most of my wins this year and I felt horrible not being able help him out when he needed help. If there ever was a good reason to get back into healthy and fit weight for myself, helping out my buddy is it.

Good question. Some people get really lean on a triathlon "diet" while others can't shed that annoying layer of fat. I don't know why that is, but it probably shows that pure aerobic exercise is not the answer for some as far as getting lean.

On the other hand have you observed some yoga/pilates/dance physiques? Some of those boys and girls have the best bodies around... on a pure "sissy diet". Go figure.

Things are not as they seem. Triathletes looking to shed the baby fat would do well to diversify. Keep an open mind.

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Youre complicating things way too much. Burn more than you take in and you lose weight. What the hell is babyfat anyways, lets call it too many calories and not enough burned fat :) On the other hand, I dated a girl who was a dancer(not exotic!) and i can vouch for them having rock solid bodies, a work of art really. I have an idea for people looking to shed some pounds...date a hot dancer and think about all the cross training you'll be motivated to do in the bedroom! Problem solved?

Good idea, but I'm afraid those dancer types would break a few of my vertebras without even trying. I'd rather just watch.

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I admit, this too has puzzled me, and I'll refrain from fat people bashing because once I start I can't stop, and I speak from experience as I grew up an overweight kid by about 50lbs. My senior year of h.s. I took it upon myself to eat right and exercise and lost it all, never looked back. I recently went to a website about hypothyroidism and found that only about 5 million Americans suffer from this, that's less than 2% of our population, yet 60% of the country is considered obese. So the old "oh he/she has a thyroid condition" is overused.

BTW, I have an entire thread dedicated to you now:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=1335868#1335868

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Now that's just crazy talk!

Oh yeah, on extra fat and heavy training. I think the body is intelligent, lower level output for extended periods = a need for energy stores. Would also be one of the reasons that older athletes and women drop off less in the long stuff compared to the average 25 year old uber-athlete.

One only needs to look at the transition area of their local sprint race to find a clue to the problem. People load down their bikes for that 12-15 mile bike leg with enough picnic to make 2 Ironman bike legs!

And for some reason people think even a short 3 mile recovery run or 30 minute spin entitles them to a huge quart sized Gatorade.

"designer" nutrition, IMO.

A typical triathlete needs to have:

1. a pre-workout fuel drink/energy bar.
2. a workout gel/sports drink.
3. a post-workout "recovery" drink.

Once it's all said & done, they've probably consumed more calories than they've spent.
The body composition of the participants in the last 2/3rds of any triathlon is a lot worse than it should be, IMO.

...calling a lot of people that i see training or racing "triATHLETES" is pretty generous, i usually refer to them as people who do triathlons...Im not being an elitist or looking down on people...Ive seen a lot of excuses justifying being overweight in this thread, it comes down to being lazy...

One of these things is not like the other. I think you would be well-served by some serious introspection.

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fork DOWN
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woo - jackmott

"Why are so many triathletes fat?"

b/c they don't do enough squats :P

From the times I've seen her in person--- She does not look as lean and ripped as some other elite female athletes such as Lori Bowden or Desiree Ficker. From looks I'd bet that Natascha's body fat is a couple percent higher than theirs--- That means she's carrying two to five pounds of extra fat along with her. From the tone on this site, you would think that Lori would dominate Natascha but not so.

I'm not saying that Natascha should lose weight. I am sure given her discipline and success that she could race at any weight she wanted to, yet she chooses a weight above the minimum.

-Marc

So, it's solely based on how she looks that you evaluate she could lose some more weight?
Considering Lessing isn't ripped, do you think he should also lose some weight as well?

I don't know if this is a legitimate thread or not, but I am telling you this info because I think there is something to this long distance and gaining stuff. I come from a 'when annorexic at age 18 I was a size 9' which by todays standards is probably a 5 to this whole mess of living between 3 pant sizes and 5 bra sizes. I am putting this here for other women to see --it's not in your head. I think the body seriously learns to adapt and then gets a mind of its own. Would love to take the time to research it, but would rather just take some time off and see what will be.

No clue why. I can't drop until I hit 35 hrs/week. I am taking the whole season off to try to get my body to normalize. Diet is stricter now (after talking/ tight scrutinization with my nutritionist probably not getting enough food in--huge issue with that one) then ever before, and my body just keeps holding. If I am fluctuating bad, I can't imagine how the IMers get. I was in MUCH better shape when I did sprints-half. Something to serious consider with that statement.

I have been gaining consistently season after season -mostly in the chest and quads. Now I know most pple wouldn't mind this 'problem' but it sucks to be a permanent D -seriously considering a reduction because of the back and neck pain and the self conscious that is the cleavage issue. Smallest I have been since racing strictly tris has been a C with swimming I at least got down to a large B. I have 3 wardrobes 12/14/16 and easily 6 different size bras.

12 - after a race either a 34hr to 2 weeks of straight racing this size maintains depending on the race. I can hold this for up to 4 months post race because the body continues to drop even with complete rest. Typical clothing for about 2-4 months out of the year.

14 - training for a race upwards of 40ish hr weeks and typically average of 30. This is where the pants are way loose in the belly but chest is still tight and of course quads account for a lot. This is typical clothing for about 4-6 months out of the year.

16- training usually 10=15 hrs/week. Complete base training. My jobs are dynamic little sitting, so no clue how I am NOT burning. Nutrition is the tightest here and I feel the worst. This size can fluctuate typically 2-6 months out of the year.

I think calling a lot of people that i see training or racing "triATHLETES" is pretty generous, i usually refer to them as people who do triathlons.

Nice.

I'm with you. I started my build phase at 116 pounds and I'm 125 today. My nutrition has been very strict and I'm working with a nutritionist. No junk food, no eating out, strict nutrition before, during, and after workouts. I guarantee I will drop the weight when IM is over and my body can normalize again. I think stress hormones play a big role in weight gain. Not enough sleep, work/school stress, and constant training isn't good for the body.

Jodi

I have a slow metabolism is the politically correct version of I'm lazy.

Should I change my user id?

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

You're English, you can't be fat.

I think calling a lot of people that i see training or racing "triATHLETES" is pretty generous, i usually refer to them as people who do triathlons.

I would be curious to hear what qualifies as a triathlete in your world?

When I started out with triathlons I found that people would say something like "so, you're a triathlete" even though they had no clue as to the level of performance. Most "triathletes" will never make it to the elite level, but that doesn't take away from their desire to constantly improve their performance and push it to the next level.

So at what level does one have to be to be considered a triathlete, rather than someone who just happens to do triathlons.

I see many "triathletes" who do it year after year. They are always average performers, and never seem to get any better, but they a competitive nevertheless.

Interesting posts from the women on this site. I've been experiencing the same thing. In the past, doing sprint/oly distances, I've had no problem maintaining a steady weight. Since I've been training for IMOO this year, I've gained weight and it will NOT come off. No, I'm not eating a ton because I think "well, I'm training a lot so I can eat whatever I want!" No, I don't eat or drink tons of "designer foods" while I"m working out. My ride on Saturday was 3:20, and during that time I had one bottle of Infinit (167 cals) and a Gu. My "treat" after a long workout is a bowl of oatmeal. The stricter I get, the more I maintain or gain. It's really incredibly frustrating. Which adds to my general stress level, so maybe the stress thing does have something to do with it.

Well, I'll just try to keep my fat, lazy self out of the way of all the real triathletes out there on the roads or courses.

(not that the "triathlete" comment actually bothers me - I always say I do triathlons, rather than saying I'm a triathlete. Not sure why.)

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http://thethighmasterroutetokona.blogspot.com

   
You obviously haven't seen all the muffin-pant wearing English backpacker girls that travel down to Australia in their thousands each year.They sure aren't eating war rations anymore in the "Old Motherland".

My problem is well meaning wives of my triathlete friends who,because I have no family here,adopt me and keep feeding me way too much food 'cause they think I look too skinny.It's some maternal thing they have kicking in.I keep telling them "No, I'm actually 15 pounds heavier than last year" but they keep loading up my plate.It's a conspiracy!As a result I'm well overweight and will be waddling my way around the Oliver Half Ironman on Sunday as a very slow training day.

Thanks Jodi :-) that's why I put it out there.

Congratulations on your PhD. Just been way consumed with life to not get on here, but someone filled me in. HUGE accomplishment. I am 6 months post graduation from my Doctorate in Chiropractic, and I am just now regulating sleeping and feeling motivated to read a book for pleasure. You still have your Doctorate rotations to get through...wish you much success in balancing it all, it WILL be worth it!

Scary thing since I haulted the heavy training weeks, now EVERYTHING under the sun aches and swells. I can feel each and every sfx and bursitis galore. Think I was better off just training, at least then I got the natural coverup of pain and enjoyed it.

Thanks Eileen!

I haven't even started taper but I can also feel those little aches coming on. My IT band is so tight that my whole leg throbs! Should be a fun couple of weeks.

Reading a book for pleasure- that sounds so relaxing! I think my light reading for the airplane is going to be Surgical Recall.

Enjoy the much deserved rest!

:-)

holy crap Jodi! that was me..always something endocrine and you who really belongs..xray and all the funky disorders you can see on black/white/shades of gray..nerves and how they can really screw you up..the best of neurophysiology.

I just finished Scott Tinley's book and it was so perfect with the timing of everything else. It took me 3 months to read 300 pages. It used to take me not even 2 days to get through that size book (and anatomy geeky stuff at that!).

One thing I have noticed with all the switching...no clue if it is from flipping training/swelling on the brain/severe vertigo since Sept, but now I can't focus properly at all when I read. Or maybe I am just getting old.

Ok...back to your regular scheduled bashing/troll thread.

A lot of people use slow metabolism as an excuse but I can say, coming from the other end of the spectrum, that metabolism plays a big role. I can pretty much eat whatever I want and don't gain weight, as long as I'm training. Last year I did my first HIM and got scary-skinny (jutting collar bone, gaunt face, etc.) and freaked out about it. What I eat may not affect my weight, however it does affect my energy level, if I eat crap for a couple of days I'm seriously sluggish in workouts so I keep my diet healthy.

As to weight affecting speed, from my perspective that isn't the case - this year I weigh 5-8 pounds more than I did this time last year and I am much faster. That said, I'm a relative newby and that improvement is from increased general fitness and skill development, maybe once I'm good enough to call myself a "Triathlete" I'll want to go back to my Skeletor look from last summer.

I think he meant to write that in pink...

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

I recently heard an ultramarthoner speak on switching over to Ironman events. She felt that the shorter duration of the Ironman would be a break for her. No longer would she have to go 30+ hours without sleep.

What was most apparent to many in her audience, was that she was far from being the leanest person in the room.

Gazelle..
I think stress DOES play a role. There is such a thing as too much ______ (fill in the blank for anything). The body responds accordingly. I am not sure what is or is not healthy. I do know I feel better when I am doing, but tired of having this build. I want my old half IM and under build back, and if it means less LSD and more quick tempo then it is time to mix it up. Will be back to the long stuff since it comes so easily and my closest friends I only get to see via races, I have no other choice but to come back to racing. For now, time to see if I can right this body and get 'healthy'.

as for semantics..consider yourself lucky you have a CHOICE to call yourself whatever you deem appropriate at that time. You are above ground and being active, not everyone is so lucky.

I don't think Natascha should lose any weight, but are you saying that it is not possible to estimate relative body fat percentage by comparing three athletes in swimsuits?

I know hydration levels make a difference so any one shot could be skewed, but these differences are pretty consistent when you search Google images.

Desiree:



Lori:



Natascha:

wow. When I 'just' ran THAT was when I was the leanest. Come to think of it when I 'just' swam that was when I was annorexic. It's not as easy as everyone makes it out to be. Something has to switch in the body, I've seen it way too many times. After one big event, someone I know very closely asked me how sick I was because of how thin I had gotten, then shocked when I bounced back up. The yo-yo ing of this has to be worse than the yo- yo ing of dieters. I am scared about the long run, and there just is not enough evidence out there. Most of us are still the lab rats. Ok..time to hit the pool, enough goofing around.

One of the pleasures of training so much is eating with abandune, this is the problem. I've started to limit the quantity of food I eat, especially after a big day or race. Snacking and drinking are calorie contributors too. The brutal truth is, despite the amount of work, you still have to watch what you eat, especially old AGers.

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_________________________________________
"Success is failing without loosing enthusiasm"

There are people who eat to live and those who live to eat.

I'd say a good number of my friends and I who train together have gained weight since becoming involved in a healthy relationship. One of my married friends said he didn't think I was in love with my gf at first because I wasn't gaining weight haha. Now with 10lbs+ I ask him if he believes me now ;)

Q: Why are so many triathletes fat?

A: Bento Boxes

One thing no one has addressed here is age. I'm 38 and having a MUCH harder time maintaining/losing weight than when I was in my 20's. I'm actually working out more now but running less. I NEVER thought I would have to "watch my weight" 10 years ago, assuming I would continue to swim/bike/run 10+ hours/week.

I do agree putting on weight is a process of taking in more calories than you expend but I completely disagree about putting on weight exclusively the result of being lazy, etc. My brother in law looks like an athlete, and was up until about 5 years ago. He is slim, has muscle definition, etc. He works 10-12 hour days and eats fast food 5 days a week for lunch and eats out at restaurants 2-4 days/week, not including weekends. He hasn't done any exercise of note for 2 years and yet hasn't gained a pound. If he is able to do that and maintain an "althletic" body, I certainly believe there are other bodies which are more difficult to lost weight despite consistant working out and healthy eating.

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Fight............Finish

But is "super-thin"the same as "super-healthy"? Not necessarily. After more than a decade in the sport, I do worry about the oxidative damage I have done to my body. Despite being a lover of the long distance, I don't for a minute believe that what I do is completely good for my health.

It is pretty much agreed that 'tis better to be a bit over-fat and active, than super-thin and inactive. The problem of the "fat" thin person is only beginning to be studied.

I'll admit that I raced faster when I weighed 112 at 13-14% a few years back, but was my truly obsessive, overly focused, restrictive lifestyle healthy? Don't think so. I am happy to have traded those 5-6 lbs and 1-2% for my current, more balanced and happier life.

FWIW, the day I told my coach I was ready to relax, have more fun and accept lesser results, he admitted that he was the proudest of me he had ever been. :-)

Funny thing is........I'm still racing pretty well..........who knew?

G

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It's a little like wrestling a gorilla.........you don't stop when you're tired.........you stop when the gorilla is tired.

This glass is half full, not half empty. If there were not so many caloric intake challenged triathletes, a lot of the FOPs on this forum would be MOPS or BOPS.

ath�let�ic /�&#952;&#712;l&#603;t&#618;k/ Pronunciation Key[/url] - Show Spelled Pronunciation[/url][ath-let-ik] Pronunciation Key[/url] - Show IPA Pronunciation[/url] �adjective 1. physically active and strong; good at athletics or sports: an athletic child. 2. of, like, or befitting an athlete. 3. of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. 4. for athletics: an athletic field. 5. Psychology. (of a physical type) having a sturdy build or well-proportioned body structure. Compare asthenic (def. 2), pyknic (def. 1).

Pick any definition you want, i'll go with "good at athletics or sports". That comment was a joke, but i bet a lot of people found it funny because there is an element of truth to it whether you want to admit it or not. For example, on any given trainin day ill see someone about 30+lbs overweight wearing an IM cap/shirt(whatever) "running" 10+min miles. In my mind, i dont think athlete when i see this person. Im not ragging on them, I think its great theyre out there working and doing what they enjoy, im just simply saying the word athlete doesnt come to mind. I'd say when i was bulked up and muscular a few years ago I WAS CERTAINLY NOT AN ATHLETE even though i was in good shape physically and could run decent times. Maybe my definition is quite a bit different from yours. Maybe you see a person on a bike and automatically go, hey there's an athlete!

And people can make excuses all they want, i meet people in their 40s, 50s and 60s that look absolutely amazing. What do they say are the most important things to looking the way they do? They eat healthy foods(very healthy) day in and day out and they exercise daily, most do strength training along with some form of aerobic activity. What a shocker!

I know there are things that MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT(age, wife, kids, work, metabolism) but anyone has the power to do whatever they would like to do with their body, its just a matter of sacrifice and dedication. You either make the sacrifice or you dont. I have a super fast metabolism, always have. I wanted to bulk up and put on some muscle because i was skinny as a rail. I had to overcome serious hurdles to put on muscle so im coming from the other direction, EITHER WAY it takes hard work and sacrifice. Junior or senior year in hs i weighed maybeeeeeee 130lbs at 5'11, thats pathetic. I was like other people "eat whatever and not gain a lb", which is a copout, skinny guys can gain weight if they SACRIFICE and make huge lifestyle changes to fit in 6 or 7 good meals a day. It is a good chunk of time out of your day and the foods arent as tasty as ice cream. cookies, or mcdonalds(insert junk) but its a sacrifice you have to make. Im at a lean 170 and i had to bulk up to around 190 before i could cut it down to the weight i wanted to be. Meaning i had to do what everyone else that loses fat/weight has to do.....burn more calories than i take in! It was a little easier for me to lose the weight but putting it on took years of hard work. So there!

I heard a comedian(I think George Carlin) say, "How come you never see a rolls royce with a bumper sticker that says, "shit happens"". I think this could apply to fitness as well, think about it :)

I am a triathlete and I am fat (That's step 1, only 11 more to go :-)

I am fat because my daily food intake (calories) exceeds my daily expenditure.

I expend way more than a normal human being, but my intake narrowly exceeds that expenditure. I do float well tho'!

I am not too concerned about it because I am a recreational triathlete and triathlon is not (quite) my only reason for getting out of bed each day. I enjoy beer with my friends from time to time. I enjoy pizza with my friends from time to time. I enjoy training with my friends from time to time also.

I'm not going to exclude any of those activities just to perform a bit better. I might reduce my beer or pizza intake but not eliminate it. Even if I dropped heaps of weight, to my ideal race weight, I doubt I would graduate from the MOP/BOP to MOP/FOP so there is no incentive to do so. Regardless of my weight, I still give 100% during races, I just spend more or less time out there doing it. No difference really. I'm in it for the fun of it, not the results. I'm happy with myself and don't need or use race results as self validation, so I muddle along as a thoroughly addicted MOP trigeek and enjoy the smell of the roses along the way.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

I see what you mean, Desiree appears much more defined, but do we really know their % body fat.
The extra muscle can be a liability as well, Those finely chiseled abs certainly look good and they may provide some core stability, but do they help or hinder performance? Any extra muscle that is not used for propulsion is extra weight.
Natasha appears to have very little muscle, or is it just concealed by her thin layer of body fat? Then again we really don't know the %, do we? Could it be that she is also very lean but just has loose skin? Was she heavier at one point prior to her involvement in triathlon?

Desirees abs look chiseled because she is skinny, not because they are huge muscles. Lots of completely untrained kids have chiseled abs, in no way does that imply they are strong abs (test them, youll see!)

Less bodyfat means less fuel spent keeping fat cells alive, and less weight to propel.

However, for the steroid free athlete, less bodyfat usually means less muscle too, its hard to build one and lose the other. I would expect, that all else being equal, the bulkier rider will probably be faster on the bike (if its not too hilly) and slower in the run. Ironman throws a complication into this, since it is so longer having some bodyfat for fuel might be necessary for some people.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

its a tough issue really. i'm just under 5'10", 142 lbs (female). i'm always trying to lose a few lbs, but if i go below about 138 i start to feel really weak. to maintain that weight i'm just not eating enough to have energy to train. my main focus now, is to get more lean/lose fat, not just lose lbs on the scale, though i think we all feel pressure to be lighter.

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"What am I on? I'm on my bike busting my ass for six hours a day. What are YOU on?" - Lance Armstrong

Here's a report that says over half of EU adults are overweight.

http://apnews.myway.com/...70530/D8PEUJKG0.html

So it appears Europens are fat.

Incidentally, a separate report estimated that 93% of Frenchmen are scaredy cats.

I check out this site from time to time and thought this was an interesting post. I've done ultras and what I'm seeing now is many overweight women and men running marathons, ultras and even double IM's. Some are quite capable but just make the cutoffs. I have to question the training and the intake of calories and/or both. I've been doing this for years and have watched finely tuned AG athletes and their training is evident with their success that being just to finish. This is always my goal, althought when I'm fit, diet and training, I race like it. Years ago I saw this one athlete at an ultra with cases of soda, cupcakes, and more food then one would bring on a picnic. This athlete was fat. Now, I'm not putting down heavier athletes. I am aware some people are "big boned." I am stating and observation, that this particular athlete didn't make the bike cutoff. This certainly was not do to lack of food, but training. I have seen athletes over the years, gradually lose fat and their race performances have picked up. I feel for some, their aspirations outweigh(no pun) the reality of their current state of fitness. On the other side of the spectrum, I have seen obsessed ultra athletes that do not take in adequate number of calories and look unhealthy. It is a fine balance and for me it takes training and diet. Now that many people are taking on new challenges, I have seen an increased of "fat" athletes racing. I hear people saying, if they can do it so can I. I respect the training and healthy diet that goes into competing at any level and for all athletes. Now this is the real challenge.

From what I have heard a lot Swimfan is/was a person apparently here before I joined this forum. Could you please summarize his golden characteristics for us newbies ? Not being familiar with him, I feel like I am missing half of the humor of this forum.

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"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative." Oscar Wilde

I combine my ice cream and peanut butter cravings at the same time...melted pb on ice cream rocks!!!! I limit myself to one bowl of ice cream a day.

I saw a piece on HBO Real Sports about "Boomeritis" last night....apparently the medical costs of baby boomers who refuse to cut back their normal exercise routines as they age is becoming huge...on par with problems with obesity. Of course, the doctors did say that being overly active is preferable to being obese. it was interesting...to say the least.

The best way to not be tempted is to give in... ;-)

plus it just means I have to workout that much harder...it's really a win-win situation ;)

(1) Let's strike from this discussion those folks who clearly could stand to lose 20 lbs and finish in the bottom 1/3 of their age group. That's just observing that some folks only get in shape enough to finish - which is still better than sitting at home.

(2) Otherwise, what all the posters on this thread seem to call "fat", even in quotes, is clearly healthy weight (for Europeans OR Americans). I don't think people who lose that last 5-10 lbs are any healthier than those who don't. They may look better on TV or in a bathing suit and are likely faster triathletes, but I don't think they are healther. And, from some of the pictures above, the fact someone who is obviously already perfectly lean and does NOT need to lose any weight at all COULD lose another 5-10 lbs and be ultra-lean and cut is, to me, silly. At that point, I'll bet you are getting distinctly UNhealthier.

(3) I think we all know people who exercise 5-6 times a week or trained for a marathon and don't seem to lose as much weight as we expected. I have seen it again and again and finally watched someone at work who worked out a LOT drop 30 lbs (he is a pretty big guy) just by doing Nutrisystems this Spring. I think diet is simply more important than exercise for losing weight, although NOT more important for health, etc.

(4) Now, that said, what makes someone a "triathlete" versus "someone who has done a few triathlons" is a question of some interest to me and, I think, relates to the above discussion. I do not yet consider myself a triathlete and I could drop 10 lbs from a healthy weight and still be a perfectly healthy weight. Personally, I think you can call yourself a triathlete when you have put in enough effort and dedication that you are doing triathlons at or near your potential, at least at that point in time. In other words, you can still train harder and smarter and improve, but you are at 90%. And I relate to the above discussion in that a triathlete doesn't carry that extra 10 lbs that slows him or her down (but again, that's different from being lean and fast and still trying to drop ANOTHER 5-10 lbs to be super-lean.)

I've done three IM triathlons, and finished in the bottom 1/3 of my age group twice (14:00 and 16:40) and DNF once. I'm doing IMWI this fall, and I'm so undertrained, I may, in fact, die on the course. My obsessive buddy, who just qualifed for next year's Boston Marthon at this year's Boston Marathon is 6" tall and is always trying to keep weight on to maintain his 155 lbs. I, on the other hand, weigh in at around 180 lb. on race days, and am also 6" tall. I like to eat, and often shave off a workout or two during the week.

I have no problem accepting that he is in the "highly motivated old athlete" category, while I am clearly only in the "old athlete" category.

People think I'm crazy when I tell them I'm fat. They say, "you're not fat... you look great". But if they saw me in my speedo in T1, (alongside of fast triathletes.... I'm a good swimmer) they'd "get it".

However, I have ironman finisher t-shirts that I'm usually ashamed to wear because I am not chisled and lean. Still.. even when I stress that I am a "back of pack" ironman, its so far beyond anything that others would consider do-able that people roll their eyes in wonder, to which I say that I am living proof that anyone can finish an IM if they are willing to exercise many, many hours a week. Sometimes, when I lie awake at night, I imagine waking up on some future New Year's Day and being motivated enough to train that year for a sub 12 hr IM. As God is my witness, I will learn to be hungery again!!!! :)

Wow,

This thread is priceless....

Di you watch Shaq O'Neil's new TV show with the overweight kids last night?

Who would have thought that the superstar of basketball actually had a (perceived) problem with his own weight....

Pure Gold!

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Ego numquam pronuncio mendacium,
sed sum homo salvaticus

I resemble that remark. I used to over eat after the big long work out. I don't anymore and guess what I have been steadily dropping weight. slowly but surely. But it is coming off. I also found that if you have proper nutrition on your big work outs you are not starving after the work out. that shocked me the other day, when I did my 6 hour work out. I was amazed I was not starving, that was because I took in enough nutrition during the work out. i also just eat a regular meal after the big work outs. I used to over eat to compensate for what i thought was burning to many calories and having to replenish my body with protein and carbs. this year I have found that a regular sized meal after a big work out will do. And that has allowed me to lose about 1lb per week for the last several weeks.

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Like T says, "Remember it is all about the Bike because it is all about the Run!"

i don't know about 10lbs over weight, but probably a couple few i am just a little fatter than you!!!

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Like T says, "Remember it is all about the Bike because it is all about the Run!"

no the tour guys can crank out over 4Watts/Kg of body weight for hours at a time that is why they bring it. so that would mean you can crank out well over 360 watts for hours and hours and do it all over again day after day. that is why it is important for them to be light weight, but the power they can hold is incredible compated to how little they weigh. not amount of GH, Test, EPO can make people with out some elite level offitness obtain those levels. that is why they are lean and very powerful. and the top TT'ers crank out over 6.5watt/KG for a TT.

But I do agree with you that at some point you just get too lean, I am not there yet. and you may be there, because you are pretty lean at 7% to 5.5% body fat.

I also think that most people think they are at a lot lower body fat percentage than they really are!!!

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Like T says, "Remember it is all about the Bike because it is all about the Run!"

I think it is because too many people over eat on long rides!!!

and then over eat again after their long work outs after they have been over eating on the long workout training session.

I used to do that when i was out of shape, not that i am now in great shape, But when i was just starting to work out. I would think that i was fatiguing because my body needed more calories, so i would drink and eat more calories during the work out. Well that is not the problem, the problem was that I was out of shape!!!

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Like T says, "Remember it is all about the Bike because it is all about the Run!"

woah - 5.5-7% body fat is ultra lean!
I'm a big guy, 6 foot and 200 pounds, but at 15% body fat I well within the normal range for my height (BMI says I am obese though!).
I finish in the top 25% at most races I do and I know I could be leaner and do better times but I travel a lot and my training is not as consistent as it could be.
I consider myself a recreational triathlete with 9 OD's and one 70.3 under my belt in 3 seasons, best time 2:28 for an OD and 5:50 70.3.

My point is this - body fat is not the only measure of fitness - accumulated fitness counts (I was a 1st grade rugby player in my 20s), as does mental toughness. Also, MOST people could be fitter, it is a question of what they want to sacrifice to get there.

My friends are all better than me by 5-10 minutes on an OD race, but they train WAY harder (3 hours more per week)...... If I was 5 minutes faster in my best race I'd have been 7th instead of 13th, so it is not the difference between podium or not....

I think that we can all set goals - and season to season this is the way to improve - the guy who has finished 2 IM - he could go 30 minutes faster and still not be considered a "triathlete" by some, but he'd feel good about hitting his goals.

This sport is all-inclusive, let's keep it that way by encouraging all to improve every year.

Everyone who completes a triathlon under the cutoff time is a triathlete......

I also think that most people think they are at a lot lower body fat percentage than they really are!!!

This is funny, you're so right. I'm amazed at how such a large proprotion of people here are in the single digits...yet show up to a race and whadda you find...?

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blood, sweat...and big gears

I hated every minute of training, but I said, ''Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.''
- Muhammad Ali

yeah i remember when i thought i was at about 8 to 9% body fat and i got dipped in a tank and came out closer to 11+% or something like that it was a long time ago. I did work out hard before and i guess you are not supposed to do that too much O2 in your system or something like that. but anyways I was fatter than i thought. and fatter than what people told me i looked to be!!!

Story of my life.

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Like T says, "Remember it is all about the Bike because it is all about the Run!"

genetics can play a part in it. in addition, some people have a fat conserving metabolism when calories are restricted. as Francois said, from my experience the euros dont seem to struggle with this.

Anyone who can finish an Ironman while keeping a respectable, regardless of fast, pace has to be among the best conditioned folks in the world. Maybe 0.1% of the human population or 0.01%?

Anyway, a guy like me may need to drop 5-10 lbs to be a real triathlete, but someone doing an Ironman sure doesn't.

Being perfectly lean isn't the end-all, be-all and is surely a function of genetics first and diet second (and exercise 3rd).

When you are in good enough shape to do an Ironman but your genetics aren't such that you are super-lean without being a nazi about caloric intake, I say "who cares"? The sacrifice you would have to make would be far more than the benefit.

I don't think triathletes are fat just because they're lazy and decadent. I started in endurance sports by running. I've never paid much attention to what I ate, but when I started running, the weight just peeled off and stayed off. When I started focusing on tris, I was working out a lot more (though running less), but I gained close to 10 pounds.

And I don't think my experience is unusual. I doubt this conversation would exist on a running forum. The runners I knew, of all levels, were almost all thin. When new people would show up at workouts, if they kept coming, they would be noticeably slimmer over the coming months. In tri clubs, that just doesn't seem to happen. My guess is that it's because the majority of training time is spent on the bike and biking is very efficient and it's fairly easy to ingest calories.

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Don't you think it is primarily because swimming builds upper body muscle and secondarily because I think triathletes like a balanced musculature (or to look good up top) and hence lift more?

No because they're not more ripped just chunkier.

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are you asking why so many triathletes are fat or did you want to ask why so many fat people do triathlons?

"It seems the more calories we burn, the more we need to consume, and we can never trim down as low as we would like to be. "

Nobody needs to consume those calories, especially if they would like to lose weight. I'd suggest not to reduce the calories you consume during your workouts by too much, but there is certainly room for those fatties to trim the caloric intake afterwards.

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�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

Why do so many triathletes drink beer? They could be consuming something more nutritious for optimal performance.

Why do so many triathletes have families? Time spent with the family takes away from the training needed for optimal performance.

Why do so many triathletes have jobs? The time they spend working would be better spent training to have optimal performance.

Why does Slowtwitch have a Lavender room? It certainly doesn't contribute to optimal performance.

Why do so many triathetes not have the latest bike, wetsuit, running shoes, heartrate monitor, GPS and power meter? All of these things would contribute to optimal performance.


My point is that "optimal performance" in a triathlon may not be each and every participant's primary goal in life.

Sure, I like to do well in races, but I also like to be able to afford a vacation to spend time with my family. I enjoy good food. Sometimes I even blow off training to take a nap, or even work late rather than go for a swim. In the big picture, I'm more focused on optimizing my performance as a father, husband, and engineer than as a triathlete (and maybe even having a little fun along the way). I haven't seen too many tombstones inscribed "optimally performing triathlete"...

Well my friend , that is exactly the response I got from an American Co. whilst attempting to assist a friend of mine with an American product...."OregonScientific" yesterday :)

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"You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream" - Les Brown
"Discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishment" - Jim Rohn

Well, thanks! I really do see a high correlation, though, between apparent "leanness" and low finish times. Without sounding judgemental, either to others or to myself, I think that the more time one spends training (especially if the training includes speedwork) the leaner one will be. An almost equal component to that is how much food you consume, although I know people who have to force themselves to eat just to keep weight on, they workout so much. Others, like me, can train 15 hrs/wk, not watch what we eat and have excess body fat. If I were to have eaten just what I needed and counted calories, I'm sure I would have lost the 10 extra lbs. in no time. There, I've just said something incredibly obvious. I once trained with a guy who did an IM every year, and got fairly respectable middle of pack times (12 to 13 hrs), but had a bit of a pot belly. When we ran together, even short recovery runs, he would faithfully ingest a Gu every 15 minutes. He was unquestionably fit, but I wondered why he felt he had to eat something every 15 minutes.

While I was signing up for IMWI last year, after volunteering, I was right next to the lines that were claiming their Hawaii qualifying spots. I looked at our line, most of whom had actually completed IMWI the day before, and I looked at the Hawaii line, and there was an obvious difference in "leanness", at all ages. That doesn't by any means say that those in the non-Hawaii line were not incredibly fit and had just done something incredible, it just means that the Hawaii line had taken things up to the next level. I'm willing to bet that the difference in "appearance" between the non-Hawaii F.O.P. and the B.O.P would be equally noticeable (to the triathlete's eye, probably not to the casual observer). My friend the ultra-runner has told me that if I lose just 10 lbs. my marathon times could go down (all other things being equal) by 1/2 hr.

My wife is a dietitian and teaches exercise classes, and shares clothes with my 15 yr old athletic daughter. I can tell an immense difference between the way she eats and the way I eat. When she wants a snack, she has fruit or yoghurt... I have chips or cheese... when she wants "comfort food", she will have one piece of chocolate... I will have a big bowl of ice cream. She almost never has a 2nd helping at dinner, whereas I'll eat until I'm "full". She says that dieting is a waste of time, but that portion control is what its all about.

Everything in your post is correct. Want to see something interesting- watch the finish of an IM some day. After about 10:30 the body composition starts dropping real fast. The people at the front are very lean. IM is just brutal on people carrying extra weight. Many of these people are really fast, especially over the shorter distances, but IM just chews them up. I am one of these people. I am 6' 1" and race at 176-180. I routinely finish at about 20th place in the mens 35-39 age group, about 30 minutes away from a Hawaii spot. I have no doubt I would have qualified by now if I could just put the damn fork down and dial in my diet a bit better. Probably 10-20 pounds would do it. F***ing ice cream and beer :).

Just curious - what kind of medication was it? Not to pry into your medical history - just, with those dramatic numbers, I'm wondering if its something that would be a "common" prescription here in the States...

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"I'm Worth A Million In Prizes"

I recently began seeing a nutritionist (registered dietician) in an effort to lose that 15 lbs and your comaprison of how you and your wife eat is a synopsis of the discussions I have had with her. After implementing some of here strategies I have dropped four lbs in two weeks. One other thing that she put forth was the dont get too hungry idea. that way when I walk inot the deli i go with the turkey sandwich vs the meatball hero

Yep, very common..........Lipitor. I've been able to loose about 1/2 of the gain, but it really messed with my system. I had dizzy spells, numb fingers, sore leg muscles and the weight gain. As soon as I stopped the stuff, everything siezed nearly immediately except of course the weight gain.

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I really think proper sleep plays a large role in losing or just maintaining current weight. I sit behind a computer all day at work and can tell you if I got enough sleep based on my pure munchiness in the morning.

Obviously, overall weight loss is dependent on a lot of other factors, but the extra crap calories I find myself eating on a lack-of-sleep day is both alarming and interesting, which of course leads us to discipline and self-control.

I think I'll go take a nap.

Here Jay, I rotated that picture for you:

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Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.

Based on my exposure to our local Tri people, it mainly is due to the basic nature of the sport itself. Triathlon is a "participatory" sport, not a "competitive" sport for over 75% of those out there. In anything other then a sprint tri, most people just seem happy to finish- like it is a MS150 ride or something. Heck look at the massive "one and done" turnover the sport has every year. In many ways it is similar to Marathon's. Right down to the herds of fat walk/run/walkers in groups.

Add in the fact that some people like to "play" a triathlete rather then live like one, to boast to friends, family and co-workers.

In something like a road race on bikes, or a cross country running race being in the last 1/3 is TERRIBLE. Heck you may even get pulled.

But in many Tri's it's start slow and back off from there.

That's why, for 75% it merely is a participatory sport, like most marathons now. You do not need to be in more then decent shape to complete them. Heck you can even WALK large sections. Walk! Bah!

Ok, rant over. Now, that said my hats off to the legit 25% of real triathletes out there. They are in it to compete and beat their peers, and they live the life necessary to do so. That means hard choices, harder work and doing everything you can to win (even if you wont).

OK, I'll bite.

...what about the 75 yr. old who finished the IMAZ by walking the entire 26.2... in a full leg brace?
...what about the overweight 30 yr old couch potato who signs up for his/her local IM and then crosses the line at 11:59:58 after 12 months of somewhat disciplined training?

I really don't think that most people are just happy to finish. If that were the case, the top 25% would all come in within a certain time frame and then everyone else would come strolling in just before cutoff. I think everyone has their own goals, and everyone has a different level of natural ability, drive, time available, etc.

By "real triathletes", I know what you are referring to: pros and front packers. I agree... they are the top 25% in motivation and results and I am in awe of their accomplishments.

BUT, what the hell is wrong with "participating"? Do you think HyVee would come up with $700,000 prize money for an obscure sport?

Perfect Steve! Thanks! Hey, are you doing the San Clemente Ocean Festival events again?

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My business-eBodyboarding.com

I'm signed up for it. Last year I did the aquathlon (mile swim/5k beach run), the stand-alone 5k, and the stand-alone mile swim. After all that, I was pretty thrashed and didn't do the run-swim-run (or is that swim-run-swim). I'll probably skip the stand-alone 5k this year so I can give that R-S-R (S-R-S) a go. Hope the weather is as good as it was last year! Are you going to be there? MJ swam the mile last year (I touched her feet - haven't washed my hands since!)

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Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.

HA, HA. I saw Russ Jones down there last year. My wife did the "biathlon" too (mile swim/5K run). We sponsor a bodyboarding clinic on the S. side of the pier, so I'll be there all day Sat. and Sun., so I'm going to do both the RSR and the biathlon. I'm in the middle of IMC build right now, so I'm going to have to do my long ride on Friday or Monday I guess. I just hope the water temp stays up. It's about 70 right now.

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My business-eBodyboarding.com

because I got injured and have turned lazy.

really seriously, help me get off the couch!!

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http://slow-triathlete.blogspot.com/

I've restrained myself from posting till now, after I listend to Science Friday today. Yeah, I'm probably one of those "fat" folks you see doing triathlon. Alas many times it's all in the eye of the beholder, eh?

I've been around long enuf to remember the Hottie Thread, where 97% of the posts were of hangar like models. Hubby likes me just the way I am and thinks I'm insane to want to slim down from my 5'4 size 8-10.

I was frightened to death doing my first tri last year that all the gals would be as lean as Desiree Ficker. I was comforted that all shapes and sizes were represented, and just like my finish times, I was middle of the pack.

It seems there's a small fringe here on ST that want to make triathlon elitist when we should be welcoming the masses. Sorta like the early days of running. Now there's a fun 5K at every turn and thousands turn out. Ha, think of the revenue for all the bike stores :)

An interesting take on it all: Read NYT reporter Gina Kolata's new book RETHINKING THIN: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myths and Realities of Dieting. She was on NPR's Science Friday today and I'm eager to read the book now. She debunks a number of myths folks hold, i.e., it's as simple as food in/energy expended. An interesting study she also cited was that folks in the overweight category were healthier than their skinny-minny counterparts.

Another favorite myth she addressed, that folks in Europe are thinner than Americans. I think it's just we tend to notice the thin folks more. No offense to my pals across the pond, but gee, when I was in London last, seemed a lot of the folks were rather on the gooey side. Kolata witnessed the same in Italy, as have I, and I've witnessed the same in the French countryside.

I don't need to be a top finisher to satisfy myself with the accomplishment of finishing a tri. Small improvements along the way are enough for me. Yeah, I could lose 20 lbs, never drink, never eat another nutrient poor food and probably do better, but life is waay too short. My new mantra, paraphrasing Nora Ephron: "I'm all about the carb now, I'd hate to be hit by a bus and my last fleeting thought be, 'gee, I shoulda had that wine with dinner."

So I'll try not to let my blubber get in your way in the transition area.

Do you care to elaborate on that. What was she proposing as an explanation? Can one actually gain weight when caloeic expenditure exceeds caloric consumption? Can one lose weight when caloric consumption exceeds caloeic expenditure?

Another favorite myth she addressed, that folks in Europe are thinner than Americans. I think it's just we tend to notice the thin folks more. No offense to my pals across the pond, but gee, when I was in London last, seemed a lot of the folks were rather on the gooey side. Kolata witnessed the same in Italy, as have I, and I've witnessed the same in the French countryside.
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People in Europe aren't thinner than Americans. There are more clinically obese people tha nthere were 10 years ago, however it's not quite got to the stage where the majority of people are clinically obese as is the case in the US. Also, do a little research (Google will do) and you will find that the US has the largest percentage of "really large folk" that is the over 300 lbs guys and gals.

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"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

I'll let you know when I read the book.....was in the car just listening to her on NPR and my pea brain didn't retain enuf of her explanation to elaborate. That said, it was enuf to intrigue me to want to read the book and look at her sources.

I'm not alleging her book is even accurate or just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo to placate the overweight. I just found her topic interesting, interesting enough to want to read more.

you will find that the US has the largest percentage of "really large folk" that is the over 300 lbs guys and gals.

Agreed.

I think the point she was trying to make is the belief that Europe is teeming with super model skinnies. She admitted she had no real data to base her observation on because the U.S. is obsessed with data collecting regarding weight, unlike Europe. Her observation was purely anectdotal. As is mine.

I find some here who've not traveled overseas (oh, the horror!) seem to have this image of Europe as being extremely thin. And yes, I would be hard pressed in most countries to find the morbidly obese that is so frequently seen here in the U.S.

  


Reading these articles it made me think back to this thread from several years ago. So doing less may not be such a bad thing:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...longer-workouts.html

http://www.bustle.com/...our-exercise-routine


...�In contrast, the men who exercised for one hour a day, after training, felt exhausted, demotivated and less open to making a healthy change.
�We are thus seeing that a moderate amount of exercise will significantly impact the subjects' daily practices.�
The study, which is published in the journal Scandinavian Journal of Public Health, monitored 60 moderately overweight but healthy Danish men for 13 weeks.
Half of the men were asked to exercise vigorously for 30 minutes a day by jogging, cycling or cross training while the other half exercised for a full hour daily.
On average, those that exercised for half an hour lost 7.9lbs over the three month period while those exercising for longer lost just 6lbs.
Interviews with the participants also revealed how they felt during the study period....

Professor Bente Stallknecht, who led the research at the faculty of health and medical sciences at University of Copenhagen, said it was surprising that shorter bouts of exercise were more beneficial than longer sessions.
He said: "Our motivation basically stems from the interest to examine if the calories combusted during an exercise intervention are compensated by the body - for example through an increase in food intake and/or a decrease in physical activity level during the rest of the day.
"Surprisingly, we found indications of a reverse compensation in the moderate dose exercise group indicating that they became more physically active also outside the exercise program."

Interesting. I am training for my 1st IM distance and am not losing any weight. I have done marathons for the last three years and lost weight. My diet hasn't changed but I think the weight training for strengthing my legs and core that I was doing for the marathons may have increased my metabalism more than this tri training.

That's interesting you say that. IM training drastically changes my body shape but not so much my weight, but if/when I switch to just pure run training I shed lbs pretty quickly in comparison.

Same here. Body has changed but same weight.

I've found that when I drop my duration but increase my intensity, as proposed in group 1 of the summary, my desire to eat lessens. But, when I drop my intensity but increase my duration, my desire to eat is steady (sometimes it increases). This is blatantly obvious when I'm training for sprints and olys as opposed to H/IM.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

The Europeans are all smoking in transition though.

part of the problem is that endurance training tells the body to conserve and slow the calorie burn, thus year over year our bodies burn less and less calories. A good way to boost this is through weight training. For whatever, X,Y,Z reason lifting weights boost the metabolic rate.

I'd say its the above + overeating thinking you've burned sooo many more calories.

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The body is amazing at making the consistent it's norm.

People are always shocked when I say you have to run ~35 miles to burn a pound of fat.

So if it takes me 100 calories to run 2 miles and I do that for every day. That a year from now with the exact same fitness, strength weight, all things being equal I will burn less calories to run 2 miles.
Or let me reword it. If it takes x amount of energy to push 100lbs, someday in the future it will take less energy to push 100lbs?.....all things equal

You think most triathletes are fat - we've got nothing on recreational pure cyclists or pure swimmers, who make triathletes look downright fat in comparison.

Pretty much, the lower the penalty for being heavy/overweight, the more larger participants there are on the recreational level. Running happens to have a pretty big weight penalty, so you won't see too many obese people running regularly, whereas you'll see quite a number of them on a bike or in the pool (especially) doing very slow laps.

Because idk

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So, how many of those "fat" triathletes have lost , 20, 30, 60 lbs or more? They are doing a pretty good job I'd say. Tremendous role models for all there friends and family ... unlike some of the "fitter" podium finishers.

to some degree yes, It will be easier because you have more muscle (since we are talking about weight training) and thus use less energy. The better scenario is cardio. The fitter you are the less energy you expend. Wouldn't you agree? You run at x pace for 4 miles and burn 300 calls, 1 year from now (assuming improved fitness) you run at x pace for 4 miles and burn 270 cals. In order to get the same burn rate you have to either run harder or run longer.

Then when you add in the issue of body equalization. Meaning that the body adjust to what you give it. Meaning the more you eat the more you burn or vice versa the less you eat the less you burn. The latter is typical of triathletes and thus this combined with the above gives you "fat triathletes" or skinny "fat" athletes.

Its a lot more complicated then this but thats the jist of it.

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Here is your quote "part of the problem is that endurance training tells the body to conserve and slow the calorie burn, thus year over year our bodies burn less and less calories

I said all things being equal. Your original statement was your body soley due to endurance, repetitions NOT adaptions will save more calories, which I personally believe is false. Yes with adaptions, efficiance you will burn less calories, but that is not what you stated . Your body does not tell you to burn less calories and then expend the same energy......especially when a calorie is a unit of energy

Body composition is determined far more by diet than activity level.

there are ten kinds of people in this world,, those who get binary and those who dont.

Really? Why use the qualifier "so many"? Few triathletes are fat. Very few, and even then they might have been athletic in HS or college, and got fat since, and decided to sign up to do one tri to see if they could. They may not be triathletes; but then we get into semantics of who's a triathlete.

There aren't THAT many overweight folks in tris. But there are always some. Just this past weekend I got my finisher swag, hung around for a bit, walked back to the car, went to the hotel, showered, cleaned and packed, checked out, and drove back to the transition to get my bike back. Some guys were still running and yes most of them were fat. But it was only a few.

I've been in the sport for over three years now. From the start, I was amazed out how out of shape most triathletes are. Yes, a lot of them are fat. Very few, if any, of the top 20-30% of triathletes are fat, however. It's the other 70-80%. For the most part, I think the bottom 70-80% of triathletes show up on race day without having done much training. They're there just to try complete the race, not try to win. Of course, a poor diet is probably a factor as well.

I agree with Dilbert, there aren't very many fat triathletes.

My last race I went in about 10 lbs (5'8" 160) over my ideal weight and I honestly felt like the fattest guy there. Granted there are some outliers but for the most part everyone is chiseled like the statue of David. Personally, I welcome anyone to a race, but if I felt self conscience about my weight with just small gut I could imagine what an obese racer would feel like. I'd rather we have more triathletes regardless of weight; together, we can raise the bar from Candy Corn Oreos and Honey Boo Boo to something better!

Thought : Who cares ? The fact that someone is a triathlete (which assumes regular training) means that s/he is healthier than most of the general population. Weight is not the sole arbiter of health and fitness.

A surprisingly large proportion of triathletes, cyclists, runners who are age groupers carry more body fta than they should or could because they consume way too many carbohydrates (wheat-based in particular but not only) and not enough fats and proteins. This will become common knowledge over the next 5 years and habits will change a lot.

I think its (and I see the trend more in cyclists) the fact that athletes think they can down a 2000 calorie meal after a 1000 calorie workout.

Pizza and beer, bitches.

This really hit the heart of the matter. Do we overcompensate for long workouts? Nutritionist tell us to keep eating all those healthy foods to keep up our energy level. Are we exaggerating our energy needs? Do we really have accurate ways of gauging calories in vs calories burned?

Lots of people like to eat and drink. Lots of people exercise so they can eat and drink more. Lots of people have no concept of how many calories they eat or burn.

All pretty simple stuff. Triathletes as a group are not 'fat'. Thankfully many have a little extra cushion to flesh out the figure and wrinkles ;) Nothing worse than an emaciated looking athlete that could pass for 15yrs older.

People who exercise think they can eat anything they want because they associate health with how many calories they burn. I honestly cannot recall anyone ever saying "I want to get healthy so I have to watch what I eat." I almost always hear "I went for a run so now I can eat anything I want".

People would be far healthier and leaner if they focussed on diet, sleep and stress reduction instead of so much focus on exercise, particularly excessive exercise. Exercise is important for good health but diet is far more important.

People going into mid-life crisis' are usually out of shape.

Agreed, though exercise does make one feel good. Before I went 'Paleo' exercise would make me ravenously hungry, and I actually put on weight, even when undertaking intense training. Yep! Diet is a real key to weight, but fat can be good. When the next ice-age strikes only the fat will survive.

Perfect Friday post!

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"It's too dangerous and expensive to ride with d*ckheads" -tridork

Really interesting thread, not replying to anyone specifically but thought I'd add my 2c...

I am probably 10lbs overweight, I'm skinny to the man on the street but hate my belly and constantly have to manage my appetite.
The problem I have is that when I start to lose the excess and begin to feel more like the op considers himself (lean and "belonging" in the elite triathlete world) I start to get sick and my training suffers so I put on weight. I truly believe that the best chance I have to reaches potential is to carry the weight as I feel more powerful and more healthy with it than without. I think I can go sub 10 ironman with my body composition and I am learning to bury my body image issues despite posts like the ops which make me feel fat.

Long live the beer belly!! accept your ideal size and enjoy. Life is short and I don't want to waste it trying to look like the op and/or trying to be accepted by him

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Sent from my I pad - but that's no excuse for typos... I'm just that dumb

Because for most triathletes, there is more to life than triathlon. Only a freaction of entrants in your typical sunday monrning race are there seriously competing for Overall or even AG podiums. Most are there because they enjoy a fun workout with a few hundered like minded friends.

There is nothing on the line for most people, so why would they change their lifestyles so dramatically

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Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

x2. Exercise makes us hungry. Food selection + food quantity will determine body weight. Then there is the emphasis on "recovery." If we allow the 2000 cal recovery meal after the 1000cal workout you gain weight (as someone said in this thread earlier). When I really focused on cutting out needless eating I dropped 10 #. But I find it hard to remain that focused (obsessed) all the time. So I can resist the "bad" food during the day, but after dinner is a weak willed time.

Since most of us are not going to the Olympics we eat less than optimally. I'd love to see real data on the average triathlete in re: body composition. Many average joes are just looking to finish, but the folks on the podium after the race are uniformly thin. I'm sure that "dedication" to the sport means more and harder training and better attention to diet and resultingly faster times.


Here is a graph of BMI for protriathletes (http://triathletelife.wordpress.com/...ing-weight/#more-470), Andy Potts is a fatty at 22.5 , while Rappstar is the thinest at 19.37. I'm certainly not anywhere near that BMI and from what I've seen at races, most of us aren't either. A few years ago Chris Horner won ToC and commented that dieting was harder than training (http://velonews.competitor.com/...our-de-france_176735). So, for next year's IM, I'm going to lose 8#, of course I said that last time.........

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Brian
“Eat and Drink, spin the legs and you’re going to effin push (today).” A Howe

Well said mate.
I usually rock up at 68-69kg (176cm) with 7-10% body fat.

That said,am presently 75kg with the most body fat and love handles I have had since the mid 90s....recovery from surgery is my excuse and I was on a very restricted diet since 2008.....yea I'm going with that.

And to the poster who quoted bodybuilders and body fat,please tell me you have been living under a rock.

Terry

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"You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream" - Les Brown
"Discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishment" - Jim Rohn

I've been in this game for a long time. First race 1996 and have done at least one triathlon every year since. I've been on the podium (as recently as May) and I've been back with the fatties (my current status). Every year is different.

My observation is that there are "generally" 3 types of triathletes which can be broken down into 1) Ex-D1/lifestyle athletes 2) Bucket Listers and 3) The Rest of Us.

Number 1's are the reason my wife hates to go to M-dot races (non-M-dot races tend to attract more 2's and 3's). Getting coffee at Starbucks or a table at the Italian place in town is a competition. These people are going to be first! No 2's or 3's are going to get in their way! They cut lines and nudge others out of the way to get in front and are generally D-bags. You know who you are!!!!! Usually seen in race/training gear at all times.

Number 2's (we are Adults here, no potty humor) hang around for a couple years, maybe 5 then move on (back to the couch or gym or where ever they came from). They are the "deer in the headlights" folks seen in transition. A lot of road bikes with clip-ons, asking how you are supposed to change into running shorts in an open transition area. Amazed! when you tell them you have done multiple IM's.

The number 3's are what make the sport fun! Enjoyable, social folk and sometimes "fat". You will never see a Number 1 more than 10lbs overweight. Number 3's routinely get 10-20 lbs over race weight during the off season. We like wine, beer, cheese, cakes, pastries, etc. And we enjoy them as much as we enjoy punishing ourselves during the triathlon season. My favorite quote which I heard in transition during an early season (March/April) race was "I knew I shouldn't have smoked so many cigarettes during the off season". That exemplifies the number 3's. We love training/competing and we love enjoying life. Training and racing is as enjoyable as cracking open a nice Bomber (if you don't know what a Bomber is, you are a Number 1) or a pint of Ben and Jerry's.

I think you are a bit off base if you think that triathletes generally outweigh other amateur sports participants. Have you been to a recent bicycle "Tour"? Tons of fatties. A local 5k? Fatties. I don't do Master's swimming so no observations. If you are comparing Number 1's in triathlon to Number 1's in other sports than that may be different. But I don't know too many Number 1's in triathlon that are "fat". I definitely think that ALL triathletes are "fitter" than other amateur sport participants regardless of weight.

I suppose if you want to compare Froome to Macca or Crowie you may be able to find some "excess" weight but no triathlete is training to win on Alp or Angrilu.

My $.02.

Now, I must get my ACL Festival schedule in order. ;-) I hear they have a Craft Brew tent this year!!!

Your underlying premise is a stereotypical assumption: "... very low fat % needed for optimal performance." Where is your proof? Are you referring to the poster images of pros? What evidence says losing 10 lbs will make the average age-grouper faster?

People like to reward themselves by eating crap. Training should be the reward.


The fact is that the leanest you could reasonably be for race day plus about 5% is a healthy weight. Any more weight is just being fat and should be lost for health as well as performance.

"Nothing tastes as good as fast feels." Somebody said that.

While I get what you're driving at, I do take exception to your number one's bus throwing--I'm in that camp 100% and do not see that at all. I'm sorry that the past nearly 20 years of tri's have left you with that view of the population. That said, I did find some parts of your descriptions kind of funny. :)

I haven't found that time-to-completion a strong indicator--some of the absolute nicest, mellowest, understated folks are the ones on the top of the podium. It's just they go like hell on the racecourse and chill out the rest of the time. All 3% bf and permanently in athletic gear of them :) Yes, the front of the field tends to be a bit aloof (a LOT of introverts up there) and very intense. Don't confuse intensity with dbaggery.

In my experience over the last 9 years slowly moving from solidly MOP to FOP, there are plenty of dbags in all ranks. I've met fantastic people in all three of your classifications, too. Cool peeps outnumber the dbags significantly, albeit much more subtly. Tri's don't make one a dbag, being a dbag makes one a dbag. Tri's just give those folks an outlet.

Actually, I've been far more annoyed by the midlife-crisis super-fancy-everything MOP types that leverage triathlons as a status symbol. Perhaps this is the crew you're calling lifestyle. They're definitely NOT ex-D1 types. :) The FOP folks have a lot of the same super-fancy stuff, but the mindset seems much more that equipment is a tool to go fast rather than a fashion statement unto itself. Pretty and cool equipment, but still tools. One need only read many pro's blogs/bios to know that.

I've never done an MDot race as they're too f*ing expensive and you have to register too far in advance. Maybe the culture there is a lot different than high-quality independent races. I'm still a collegiate club racer, though, and the vibe here is way more grassroots in nature. The quality of the field is also really high!

OP: We do a fringe sport that generally has pretty low barrier to entry (fitness-wise, $$ and complexity are pretty high), ergo, plenty of middle-age folks trying to find something fun and active. Given the general "softness" of the population, one cannot expect anyone but the truly nuts (Number 1's above :D) to be extremely slim. I, for one, am glad that there are plenty of folks out there getting some fresh air and their sweat on. I want you to have the fastest and most fun day possible; just please do so in a manner that is safe for both you and your fellow competitors; and upholds the rules and spirit of the sport.

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The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important.

-Albert J. Nock

There is little debate about weight and performance. The only issue is maintaining good health, but that is fairly well understood as well. For running, it is without question that lighter is faster for a given person. Cycling as well, as long as the weight loss if fat and not muscle.

If a guy is at 15% BF, he would be faster if he raced at 10% BF. Obviously assuming that the weight loss is healthy and gradual. Now, if someone is at 6% BF, they might not be faster if they go down to 4-5%. But, if they can do it for a brief period of time before the race that can still work out well. Lots of the marathon runners have been experimenting in training with more rapid and periodized weight loss for key races.

All that said, I think the OP is a bit of a tool who started a thread to make himself feel better about being 'thin'
'

In the Dixie Chicks song "Cowboy Take Me Away" there is this verse:

"I want to walk and not run....."

Think about it.

Why train to be a real soldier of fortune and do real mercenary things when you can sit on your couch, play Call of Duty and eat pizza?

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**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

Then there should be more.

Most casual runners/bicyclists/triathletes need to carry more weight around than professionals. In part, because they do other things in their lives. In part, because it is more comfortable sitting in a 80 degree room and not feeling cold. In part, because they don't take recovery "aids."

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I was out bicycling today. 4 hours in 76 degree weather and sun. I was cold all the time. And I am 5 pounds heavy.

That has nothing to do with performance. That has to do with life balance. Totally different discussions.

The only time I've been warm this year was the past two weeks being in Mexico where the temps hit the low 30s with a heat index of low 40s. It has been glorious. At home I'll have a blanket on sitting in the living room and at least 3 on the bed. It will take me upwards of 15 to 20 minutes to get a good sweat on, inside, when I'm back home.

Oh, and I'm a good 30 pounds overweight. But the kicker is that I'm over 60 - I think that is what has slowed down my bodies ability to make heat when I'm sedentary (at a desk job or testing at nigh). I shiver to think (pun intended) what will happen as I loose weight over this winter.

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BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.

Hmm... Dixie Chicks and mercenary warfare references in the same post. Kinda ironic.

Think about it.

I think if you and I debated the question of Endurance Performance vs. %Fat, we would likely agree on a middle ground of this issue. I like to distinguish %fat from body mass index (BMI) or weight for height. High BMI is clearly a disadvantage in endurance sports compared to normal or low BMI because performance often depends on the distribution of power to weight. By comparison, the power to %fat ratio is not as good a predictor of performance... there is no muscle in it.

It isn't about a predictor of performance within a population, but performance of an individual. You are looking at it from a way to predict things. Look at it from strictly a performance point of view. If you are currently running 32min 10k at 10% BF, will you be faster or slower if you run at 7% BF? For sake of argument, lets say you can magically have two versions of a person run the race at the same time.

What?! No M-dot race yet. Ahh, my friend, then you haven't yet experienced the concentration of the d-bags.

As I said in my post, at non-Mdot races (The Great Floridian, Vineman, local 70.3's, etc) the Number 1's get diluted (because those races are mostly filled with 2's and 3's). Way more low key and fun. Like the grassroots races you enjoy doing. Why would a Number 1 waste their effort if the end result wasn't a KQ.

I have been, at times, FOP and have known super nice folk up there but I was speaking in "generalizations" and the exceptions get overlooked in these cases.

A recent example of Number 1 behavior comes to mind. I ran a local 5k a couple years ago. A local "star" and crew used it to kick off a long ride. They won overall male and female and one of them was first in my AG (I was second). Before the awards ceremony they took off to do their ride. It was a rather small race and it was only about a half hour or so before the awards were given out. The announcer told the crowd that the winners had left to go on a 50 mile ride. People in the crowd were astonished. Some because they left but most because they were impressed (non-triathletes). "Wow, I can't imagine riding that far, especially after running a 5k". I just shook my head. Really, you couldn't stick around to accept your awards. Ugh. I think that was the only race I have ever been at where the OA winners did not stick around. I find that disrespectful to the RD and the other participants. Others may not.

The things that I have experienced over past 20 years with the Number 1's, 2's and 3's have led to my generalizations. This is a pattern of behavior that has been pretty consistent over time. As the sport has grown, the Number 2's have increased a bit which is nice although sometimes annoying on the bike. Lots of left riding.

And yes the midlife crisis "bling" folks are annoying as well. But most of them are CEO's anyway so what else would you expect. :p

Hmm... Dixie Chicks and mercenary warfare references in the same post. Kinda ironic.

Think about it.

Might as well. You can 'discuss' the same old shit only so many times before satire arrives.

I was not talking about the Dixie Chicks beef with the Iraq war and Blackrock Security.....although there's a metaphor somewhere.

The Dixie Chicks gave up before they ever became country music Icons. This is not unlike how so many triathletes give up on the sport before they ever reach their potential.

Successful weight-loss is a really long term strategy. Turning your body from a fat storing machine into a fat burning machine takes years of hard work.

There's not a single pill, surgery or bullshit workout program anywhere in the world that can duplicate the symmetry of a perfectly sculpted physique. This is because a perfectly sculpted physique takes years of hard work and sacrifice. It's what God wants us to do......to attain the physical perfection he has in mind for all of us.

If you want to lose weight, you've got to get right with The Lord first.

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**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

Because I love beer!

 
Brave thread.

We talk results all the time and so often it comes back to either myself or Sam saying - 'she could be so good but needs to lose 3-5kg'

Really wonder how the federations sugar coat it so much - get them to the point I can see their cheek bones, I like to see their cheek bones. :)

SB.

Number 1? Is that you?

Real-life case: Dedicated marathon runner with 8 finish times (best 2:40:xx when assessed at 7% BF) gained 12 lbs after taking up triathlon sport. Came back to run 2:31:xx at 10% BF. The extra weight matters mainly about what and where it is.

+1

I eat because I'm unhappy, and I'm unhappy because I eat... It's a vicious cycle....

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~sarcasm saves lives

Of course the weight matters if you are changing the amount of lean muscle mass. But, not sure what the point of your example is?? Sounds like his training for marathons wasn't very good and the cross training helped out. No possible way to know what made him faster, but I can assume that the simple fact of adding weight was not the reason.

Now in a magic world, take that marathon runner at 10% and the same runner at 7% on the same day. Who wins the race?