Since you can not legally draft, why is your position an issue?

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Clarification on obs #2, 50 people in a Cat. 4 race is huge around here and 30 would be ave., therefore finishing 22nd is BOP and everyone knows FOP triathletes hate finishing BOP in swimming races, running races, cycling races, Scottish Highland games, pee holding contests and dwarf tossing - my apologoies for that one.

Rick.

Why do triathletes in a road race stick their powerbars to the top tube? That's just gross.

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I misread. A tri person in a road road. They do not know how to draft.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Yep, I misread.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

A fish out of water comes to mind, when thinking about a triathlete in a road race. Triathletes know only how to ride at or slightly below lactate threshold. They can't sprint any faster than a 6 year old on a tricycle. Their only real chance is to go off the front. Any true roadie can draft. Race unfolds as follows: Triathlete tows the group, roadie drafts, roadie sprints, race is over.

With a proper bike, any triathlete can lead the pack in style!

http://www.bikefriday.com/...-forrest-Roberts.jpg

Why do roadies post on a triathlon forum?

Home: Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Some of us do both..:)

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SIC VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM

http://physasst.blogspot.com/

If they are doing these things, it's simply that they have no knowledge of road racing tactics. Explain the tactics to them. If they don't take your advice, then they are simply idiots, and worthy of your ridicule and scorn.

BTW, I know plenty of trigeeks that road race and do not do the things that you describe.

Ed

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LLLEEEEEEEEEEEERRRROOOYYY JEEENNNNNKKKIIINNNNNS!!!

Clarification on obs #2, 50 people in a Cat. 4 race is huge around here and 30 would be ave.,

I don’t know how it is for you, but when I was a Cat 4, team tactics did not exist. You simply went as hard as you can and the entire race was one of attrition. Nobody knew anything but “Go hard, or go home.” One race we did, me and another guy rode away from the Cat 4 field on the one bike hill of the first lap and did the two-man time trial until we caught the Cat 1, 2, 3 field and passed them. Not trying to say we were monsters, but in low category racing tactics just don’t come into play. And the 1, 2, 3’s were going 100 miles while we were doing 50, so they were in no rush to get things started.

If they want to do well at races then they will figure it out or quit. I don’t think it is a ‘triathlete’ problem as much as a “new to bike racing” problem.
Chad

I agree on the tactics Chad, generally there are non. Courses and conditions come into play as well. However, more often than not tri guys in a road race do dumb things and it is not from a lack of knowledge. I know guys that have done 10+ road races and they still do these things, so it isn't a new to road racing phenom.

I also know tri guys that have got it and ride more to win than to work hard.

Maybe most tri guys are just looking for another hard workout. I just don't know sometimes.

Cheers! Rick.

Well, that's pretty snobby.

No, it's an honest question. Especially when they get all bently about, well, triathlon stuff!

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Why do triathletes in a road race stick their powerbars to the top tube?

I am not sure why either. There is a very simple, classic and elegant solution for this - the back pocket of your jersey.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I'm doing a road race in Prospect Park, Crooklyn tomorrow (Cat.4) so i'll try to answer these questions.

Since it's only Cat.4 though I may just ride off the front....

Roadies are roadies.

Triathletes are triathletes.

In my case, I was a roadie for the better part of 6 years, and then started racing Tri's. You'll never see the gap in mindsets bridged, so just sing a verse of "Why Can't We Be Friends?" and ride on. Some roadies will talk to you, most won't. What can you do?

Train like hell. Go for brick runs after your crit. Wave and smile. Then eat 3x more than they can. That's what you can do.

Being happy about your sport is all that matters, right? Last night in my Thursday Night Crit I was just honking along in the back, sitting in the bus at 30+. The wind was light, and the field was smooth. It was just SWEET. Coming down the straightaway I looked over at the guy next to me and said, "Whoo! Man. E-Ticket ride." He just smiled and rode up the bunch. I can't help it; when I'm on my bike and not at my desk, it's all good.

It's only okay if your chasing down team mates.

I'm going to disagree here. Both "roadie" and "triathlete" labels really just serve to reinforce stereotypes. All they do in my mind is polarize people. Personally, I race bikes, race triathlons, race 10ks, race open water swims, and watch TV. I am neither a roadie, triathlete, runner, swimmer, nor couch potato.

People who are learning to race bikes spend too much time at the front and chase down their friends. That has nothing to do with whether they have completed triathlons. It has everything to do with how few bike races they have completed.

Singling out people who compete in triathlons as having poor tactics and strategy in bike races is inaccurate. Falling into the polarized view of the world just increases the power of people in politics and marketing roles to influence us. (Not a good thing if you ask me.)

-Marc

Marc,

I certainly see your point and agree with you about sweeping generalizations/stereotypes. But this is more than marketing: The triathlete mindset is so radically different from the road racing mindset, of course their first experiences at road racing are going to be a shambles.

I've seen it time and time again; They show up for the training crit. They ride in their aerobars. Guys freak out and scream at them. Triathlete attacks, rides off the front. Gets caught. Gets dropped. Talks to me, "Man, these guys are @ssholes, aren't they?" While some guys are indeed @ssholes (be they roadie or triathlete), it has nothing to do with the situation that just unfolded.

In triathlon it's you vs. the course, you vs. yourself, and sometimes, you vs. the other guy.

In road racing it's you vs. everyone else (except your teammates, most of the time). It's kill-or-be-killed; Julius Caesar on two wheels. You aren't supposed to be nice - being nice is weak.

When I was in breakaways when I raced USCF (Cat 3 - total career earnings, $25, one T-Shirt, one Power Bar), I used to try and talk to guys to get an edge. I wanted to know what they were thinking - if they were in this for the moment, or for the long haul. Of course, this almost never worked. I usually got blank stares, sort of the, "Dude. WTF?" look. Maybe it was because I could still talk at high heart rates, who knows. I was just having a great time racing, and that really messed with them.

But I rarely won. I wasn't mean enough. You've got to be mean to win on the bike. You've got to short pull, glass pedal, and expose guys to more wind than you. If he looks right to see where you are, you sit on his left to piss him off. If you've got a teammate up the road, you sit on his wheel and wave (maybe smile) when he flicks his elbow to pull through.

Road Racing is the anti-triathlon. We all know that on the run if you fall in-step with someone and maybe share a salt tab (if needed), by the time you reach the finish line, you'll probably know the guys (or girls) entire family history. In Road Racing, the conversations are usually much shorter. "Go, GO!" "Oh, F*ck you. You go!"

In my experience, it's just that the sports breed different mindsets, and therefore, will always be looking at the world through different Oakleys.

(Oh, no he didn't....)

Well put Bob. Couldn't agree more.

Rick.

"Why do triathletes in a road race chase down their team mates?"

At a recent Crit, Team Jelly Belly spent the last 10 laps massed at the front chasing down a break that had been away for at least 20 laps with their team mate in it. Since they all had ear pieces, I can't believe it was an accident. So maybe the answer is triathletes practice team tactics at the highest professional level.

+ 1. For once, an intelligent, well worded reply in one of these threads that seems aligned with both points of view.

I vote we sticky this reply, then insta-ban anyone who starts another of these threads with serious intent. If people want to start more of these threads for the sake of pure hilarity, that's fine, too.

At a recent Crit, Team Jelly Belly spent the last 10 laps massed at the front chasing down a break that had been away for at least 20 laps with their team mate in it. Since they all had ear pieces, I can't believe it was an accident. So maybe the answer is triathletes practice team tactics at the highest professional level.

You do realize that there are valid tactical reasons for such a move. I don't know what the specific situation here was, but perhaps the teammate in the breakaway had only a minute chance of winning the sprint??

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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Wow, do you take offense to Americans eating at Mexican restaurants, or Women reading Men's Health magazine? That's a shockingly elitist and separatist attitude.

Read the majority of the posts here - they're about bikes and biking. One might even get the impression that Slowtwitch is full of closet roadies who just haven't come out and left their triathlon ways. As such, there's tons of good discourse about biking and technology.

Oh, and some of us were triathletes before we were roadies and we still have an appreciation for the sport.

You don't often see roadies starting posts on this site with sweeping generalizations about triathletes, but you do see the opposite rather frequently. You blame "roadies" for trying to set the record straight, which I find interesting. Perhaps you just want a protected space where your club of "like me" folks can talk about "roadie mindset" and the like without anyone calling foul and offering some outside perspective on things. I'm sure if you ask them to leave, many will oblige, myself included. Or, you could just start a sewing circle and bitch about anything you want without ever having to worry about justifying your stereotypes and ill-conceived notions about the world.

Word.

Enjoy the the 'W'. I look forward to the race report! :-)

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Josef
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blog

At a recent Crit, Team Jelly Belly spent the last 10 laps massed at the front chasing down a break that had been away for at least 20 laps with their team mate in it. Since they all had ear pieces, I can't believe it was an accident. So maybe the answer is triathletes practice team tactics at the highest professional level.

My guess is that the teammate up the road just signed a contract to race the next season for a different team.

.

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Bob C.

The "science" on any matter can never be settled until every possible variable is taken into account.

do roadies spend as much time thinking about triathletes as it seems they do?

After having spent far too much time on roadie forums, I can definitely tell you the subject comes up more often than you might assume. And yes, the discussions are practically identical.

Wow, ask a simple question. You have some pent up issues?
And I've been known to do a bike race or two, used to live with a roadie and even have roadie friends.

>>club of "like me" folks<< Ha ha ha. Actually there IS no one like me.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

"Wow, ask a simple question. You have some pent up issues?"

Not at all. Perhaps I read an attitude into your rhetorical question that you didn't intend. If that's the case, then I apologize for being melodramatic.

OK, someone needs to start up a heated thread about the differences in mindset between triathletes and ultrarunners…..anyone, anyone??

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Kicking butt and writing down people's names since 2001

The Hurricane has spoken.

Well put.

Thanks, Bob!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

It was a calculated chase. They felt that the sprinters up in the break (were stronger than their man in the break) and had more faith in their sprinter back in the field. The idea is to sometimes place a teammate up the road in a break to take the heat off your own team with the expectation that another team will chase, saving your team energy. If the others don't chase...sometimes your team might have to, to win. They felt it was better to chase and potentially win the sprint than get 5th. Jelly Belly actually won that race.
There's actually quite a bit of thinking that goes on in bike races.
-HWM
www.slopesports.com

"There's actually quite a bit of thinking that goes on in bike races."

Thanks for pointing that out. You'll notice I never wrote anything to imply there was something wrong with chasing down a team mate (nor for that matter did the OP).

I have done road races and triathlons for over 20 years I never knew there was so much animosity between the two groups until I read the jackass threads here on ST.

Thanks for the heads up your Mom must be proud.

<<Thanks for pointing that out. You'll notice I never wrote anything to imply there was something wrong with chasing down a team mate (nor for that matter did the OP). >>

Sorry...my intention wasn't to agitate anyone (and I did notice). I just wanted to explain what was probably going on for those who might not know. Bike racing is sort of like a floating chess game at the higher level. I think that there's no reason the 2 groups should disrespect each other (as much as I see here)?? I don't quite get that?? Roadies can learn from Triathletes & vise versa. Maybe a triathlete chasing a teammate down serves a purpose...I wouldn't know unless I was in that situation.
-HWM
www.slopesports.com

No problem!

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com