i'm not sure about others, but i know myself and a few of my fiends use training as an outlet for such issues. when things come up in life i use my training as an escape.

that being said, i think we as triathletes are the type of people that put a great amount of work/drive into things and are constantly pushing ourselves but at times will not take the time to back up and un-stress, and we end up pushing ourselves way past the healthy level, in work, training, and daily life.

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____________________________________________________________
Link to my photography
http://davidsavoiephotography.blogspot.com/
http://davidsavoiesports.blogspot.com/

Wow. First, welcome back.

Second, if there is some link between triathlon and depression, I wonder if this is a chicken/egg question. That is, are people with depression more likely to seek out triathlon, or does triathlon training in some way trigger depression? I know nothing, but I would guess that there is more credence to the former (again, if there is indeed a link.)

I think that too often people put too much emphasis on accomplishments, and then when they are done, find that finishing is not as great as envisioned. Simply put, accomplishing things does not make you happy.

If you focus on people, particularly helping others, you will find far more satisfaction.

Triathletes are particularly vulnerable because we think the next race will do it. I see people train all year for an IM and within minutes of crossing the line, are already thinking about next year. Living for a future event or accomplishment is like chasing your tail.

I learned this the hard way and now try to make every day special without planning ahead. The best way to do this is stop thinking about yourself and focus on your relationships and doing things for others. Needless to say, I stopped competing in Ironmans, not because they were a bad thing, but I was too focussed on me and doing something far down the road.

Just an opinion.

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__________________________________________________

You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

You bring up an interesting point. Fitness is supposed to ward off depression, but many age group triathletes exercise too much. I've read several places that mentioned depression as a sign of overtraining. I also think that we put so much pressure to perform well in races (as well as pay bills, raise children, be a good spouse, sibling, etc.) that we get frustrated and depressed when it all doesn't work out the way we planned.

99% of the people who post are regular people with full time jobs, but you would think that we were all Kona qualifiers by some of the topics tossed around (i.e. Which helmet should I use, Are my shoes light enough) I understand and appreciate the spirit of competition, but this is a HOBBY! I've never been paid to race. I've never had a sponsor (besides my wife). Someone may train harder than me. They may even beat my tail when we race. However, my family sees me every day and I always have time for my friends.

Keep your head up.

I know that for many years I "suffered" from what Casey describes. Good performances really brought no joy, as they were the logical outcome of my hard training. Bad performances were sometimes very traumatic emotionally.

I wrote the e-mail below after a great race last year when I realized what was going on. I sent it to friends last August, but I think it has a place here.

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Subject: Paul's most excellent adventure

Finding the joy in racing; better late than never�

Friends and Family - I had an incredible experience this year at the Pikes Peak Ascent. I hope that by sharing this you, it might help some of you find the joy of racing or in other of your life experiences.

In 1990 I was in arguably the best running condition I have ever been in. I was 25 years old. I was running a fair amount, as well as mixing in some cycling. I was running trails frequently, and once a week I ran on Pikes Peak . I ran the Pikes Peak Ascent that year, for the first time, in a time of 2h39min55sec. Each of the last two years I have ran the Ascent in a time of 2h47min. That 1990 time now seemed quite fast, and I really doubted I could ever run that fast again.

I entered the Pikes Peak Ascent this year when registration opened in March, but by May I had decided to return to triathlon. I raced a Half Ironman distance triathlon (1.2 mile swim, 56 mile bike, 13.1 mile run) the week prior to this years Ascent. I ran that triathlon all out, and finished with a good time that included a 1h25min half marathon. I continued my triathlon training with hard training sessions on Tuesday through Thursday prior to the Ascent. I had only ran in mountains once since last years Ascent, and that was in December. This years Ascent was only going to be a long training day; I had registered, so it made sense to run, but I was by no means fresh or well trained for the race.

Saturday, August 19th, the Ascent � I woke up tired, but thought the long run in the mountains would be a nice change to my recent training. As the race started, I went out conservative. I really was not paying attention to split times, or any racing strategy. I ran the first part of the race relatively hard, but then I slowed during the middle of the race to a heart rate around my normal running training pace. As I left Barr Camp, about half way (time wise) through the race, I decided to start pushing a little.

About 2 miles later, something went incredibly awry. I checked my watch at A-frame (a structure near tree line) and realized that I was actually on pace to break my 1990 time. I was having a great race, and didn�t know it. Now I needed to really focus on pace. Too easy and I was going to throw away a great opportunity. Too hard and I would blow. The later seemed more likely. (Many runners believe you need several weeks, if not one or two months, with some high altitude running in order to be ready for the demands of the last third of the Ascent. My last time training at tree line or above was the Ascent the prior year.)

The last third of the race was a battle to run as fast as I could, while avoiding the cramps that were setting in. I felt like I was running fast; the fact that I caught and passed several runners, who I could not even see when I reached tree line, confirmed my feelings.

I reached the line in 2h37min52sec; 13th overall and overall masters champion. (The top 10 runners included several 40+ year old runners, but the top 10 are awarded �overall� results, so I was masters champion by virtue of the fact I was the first 40+ year old outside the top 10.)

Over the last couple of years I have realized that my best running days are behind me, as I no longer have the leg speed I once had. This result was not my best race result ever, but I have never had the feeling of joy in finishing an event that I experienced on Saturday. In fact, I would sum up my prior feelings at race finishes as at best emotionless and at worst devastatingly disappointing.

So what made the difference? Why was this race so satisfying, while earlier and arguably better performances so disappointing? I think I used to always view my good performances as the logical outcome of my training. There was nothing to feel good about, the race merely confirmed what I thought possible. My Ascent this year caught me by surprise. It was validation that my hard work brought significant returns. It was confidence brought on by fast and powerful movement that is hard to explain to someone who has not experienced the feeling. I realized that I may never run that fast again, and I was savoring every second.

So what is the message. It is funny, because it is a message I would say I have often heard, and likely said I followed. In retrospect, Saturday was my day of learning. The message is: enjoy the ride. Take time to celebrate the success of each step along the journey. Don�t take the incremental successes for granted thinking that bigger wins lay just ahead, as life may provide challenges that make each success your last or best result.

And, for my 40+ friends, don�t give up, your best result may be ahead yet.

Paul

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2015 USAT Long Course National Champion (M50-54)

Welcome back!

I'm inclined to agree with some of the others here in saying it may be more that many people with depression may be attracted to triathlon. I was recently expressing to my mother the frustration of not being able to train (IT band issues and a separated shoulder) and her reply was mostly based in concern as she sees my training as self medicating...

Steve

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I think Triathlon is quite an obsessive sport. There are just so many parts to it that you can get completely bogged down in it, with triathlon becoming a stress rather than a release. Like Paul mentions, enjoy the journey and perhaps the destination will take care of itself. It could also be that triathlon attracts a certain type of person. Triathlons can certainly take up a pretty big 'void' in someone's life if they want it to.

I kinda wish I didn't find myself coming on here when I am having a break from training!

Now...how about that other connection...the internet and anxiety ;)

I don't have an answer but I sure would love to know. I too believe it is a Chicken/Egg question in re; to triathlons.

Everyone I know. Family and friends. Everyone close to me has suffered a serious depression. Until a few years ago, I assumed it was just the way life was. Everyone suffered from depression. Then I started to think about what kind of people we are. What kind of people I enjoy spending time with and it all started to make more sense.... And no, I don't listen to Morrissey.

What kind of person are you? A workaholic? An Achieveaholic? Perfectionist? Educated? Competitive? ADD? Goal driven? Idealistic? Entrepreneurial? A little manic? Some people call it hyper?

If you are any one of the above, you fall into top tier of suicide statistics. If you are more than one, as am I, well... you take the good with the bad and surround yourself with people who understand.

Thanks for posting.

Although not depression, I was diagnosed with ADHD at an early age and it never got better (yeah, I spent a lot of time in detention in school). I don't take drugs for it anymore because I have an addictive personality (although they did work). As a result I am always wound tighter than a snare drum, and exercise - LOTS of it - is the only way I can stay on an even keel. In the Winter, when it's hard to exercise for long periods of time, it's hard for me not to bounce off the walls.

I think there's a strong connection between endurance sports and mental conditions such as anxiety and depression. I'd argue that training can be a coping mechanism for spitting out a lot of those demons. You can, in a very literal sense, run away from everything.

There's a section in The Lore of Running that talks about running addiction, OCD, and negative-affect runners (those who run to counter emotional pain). I think it's around p. 550 or so if anyone's got the book handy... it talks about a need for self-inflicted pain as a way to cope with anxiety, stress, etc. Worth a read if you can find it. Do endurance athletes have a higher suicide rate than people with other interests? Probably, but there are a lot of confounding variables. OCD and perfectionistic people have a higher suicide rate, they are also drawn toward triathlon. There are so many other things.

Chip, I think everyone has "seen or felt" depression and suicide in their lives at some point. My roommate tried to commit sucide last December. She wasn't there when I went to bed at night - not unusual, but she wasn't there when I woke up, either, and when I asked around, I was told she had been hospitalized after a suicide attempt. The guilt you feel for not recognizing any of the signs... I can't even describe it.

Someone above commented on focusing on other people instead of yourself - finding joy in that. I remember a book from when I was little about a girl from a poor coal mining family. She needed a new coat, and the women in the community sewed one for her from quilt scraps; it turned into this beautiful patchwork-qulit coat. Her dad told her, "People only need people, Minna, and nothing else." I think it's very true...

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Chip,

It's good that you wear your heart on your sleeve here on ST. Not only may it help you, but can help others as well.

15% of Americans will experience at least one major depressive episode in their lifetime. That's a huge number. And an additional 10 million per year will experience dysthymic disorder. All told, almost 10% of Americans will be depressed in a given year.

Unfortunately, not everyone is as open as you regarding such issues, so I think it's difficult to know how pervasive it is in our sport. I'd like to think that training and racing provide an outlet to help people, though it probably comes down to the effects of exercise on body chemistry as to whether it's a help or hindrance.

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

Welcome back, good luck with your new medication, I hope it works for you.

I have no idea if there is a connection but a wild guess would be that given our lifestyle choices and fitness levels, I would think in general, depression might be less prevalent in triathletes. Having said that, there are many very obsessive types in the sport, and it knows no boundaries.

Good luck, stay healthy.

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Thanks to Euro-Sports for my H3Cs.

http://www.euro-sports.ca

PM me if you want to chat more. Just search for my username and the keyword "depression" and read what I've written about this in the past. I've become more private about this stuff in the last few months and I don't feel like talking about it openly anymore. But feel free to PM me.

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http://trainingoferic.blogspot.com/

Chip -

I don't agree that Triathlon and depression are connected - as you hint in your title and abit in your post. I would say that the type of people attracted to triathlons are prone to depression.

I know that personally - probably once or twice a month I struggle with a day or two stretch (sometimes longer) where I feel very depressed - almost as if I'm just missing something obvious - a "Is this all there is?" feeling.

It's never lasted long enough to drive me to the point to contemplate anything drastic, but I can definately see it.

I think the cause of it is partially due to the amount of hard work that we put into a hobby/recreation - and have not fully shifted into the lifestyle of it - where we live the lifestyle 90% of the time, but there is 10% of us that still is driven to the goal. I also think that part of it is due to the drag of real life; having to put up with people who so easily abuse their bodies by living unhealthy lifestyles, working with workaholics, being forced to be a workaholic and not having the guts to make a change; not having the guts to fully give into the "triathlon" lifestyle. These are all things I struggle with on a daily basis that contribute to my bouts of depression.

I just tell myself that life is worth living, and there is to much good in my life to throw it away. I also remind myself that anything drastic I do would be not a act of resolution, but one of selfishness and pain - for those that I love and that love me.

I definitely think that focussing so much on yourself is not good for you. Triathlon, being an individual sport involving so many different facets and details, does not help with that kind of thing.

I guess the trick is to let it become a positive thing in your life, rather than another source of stress (the subject of which has been mentioned countless times on here).

How do others deal with the expectations you have of yourself, your goals, and what you want to get out of this sport?

Why is obsession with work (ie being a workaholic) all that different from being obsessed with triathlon?

Unfortunetly, depression is so common in our society that there can be an argument made that there is a link between just about everything and depression. Glad to hear that you are doing better.

Interesting that you should ask about this link. It turns out that most authors in the medical literature are looking at regular exercise as a treatment for depression, and most of the data supports improvement in depressive symptoms among those who suffer from depression if they regularly exercise. A quick scan of medline showed ~500 overlapping "review" articles (between "depression" and "exercise"), most studying the positive effect of exercise.

Here is an example abstract:

Authors: Ernst, Carl. Olson, Andrea K. Pinel, John P J. Lam, Raymond W. Christie, Brian R.
Institution: Neuroscience Program, UBC Hospital, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, BC.
Title: Antidepressant effects of exercise: evidence for an adult-neurogenesis hypothesis?. [Review] [153 refs]
Source: Journal of Psychiatry & Neuroscience. 31(2):84-92, 2006 Mar.
Abstract: It has been hypothesized that a decrease in the synthesis of new neurons in the adult hippocampus might be linked to major depressive disorder (MDD). This hypothesis arose after it was discovered that antidepressant medications increased the synthesis of new neurons in the brain, and it was noted that the therapeutic effects of antidepressants occurred over a time span that approximates the time taken for the new neurons to become functional. Like antidepressants, exercise also increases the synthesis of new neurons in the adult brain: a 2-3-fold increase in hippocampal neurogenesis has been observed in rats with regular access to a running wheel when they are compared with control animals. We hypothesized, based on the adult-neurogenesis hypothesis of MDD, that exercise should alleviate the symptoms of MDD and that potential mechanisms should exist to explain this therapeutic effect. Accordingly, we evaluated studies that suggest that exercise is an effective treatment for MDD, and we explored potential mechanisms that could link adult neurogenesis, exercise and MDD. We conclude that there is evidence to support the hypothesis that exercise alleviates MDD and that several mechanisms exist that could mediate this effect through adult neurogenesis. [References: 153]
Here in Utah there is a youth school / rehabilitation program that treats a number of youth with mood disorders and uses triathlon training as an integral part of their program. I've seen their youth in action at triathlons and I really believe the integration of the exercise (and sense of commitment, responsibility, and accomplishment) through triathlon helps these youth tremendously. You can check out their program at http://www.telosrtc.com/teamtelos.html

So, perhaps it is a good thing that you are into triathlon. Perhaps it shortens your bouts of MDD and helps you to rebound and recover more quickly.

-B

Chip,

I would advocate group counseling as well as the medication. When you listen to how others are dealing with their depression, I think you'll discover that triathlon is a pretty damn healthy way to cope and that it is a gift in your life!

If you have the desire to get out of bed in the morning, even if it is only to get in some training, you're in better shape (pardon the pun) than most who are suffering from depression.

Good luck

A while back I wrote that I sensed a sadness in a lot of the posts. Maybe that is more prevalent in triathletes than the general population. I don't know.

This may sound like tri-heresy to many STers but, IMO, anyone other than the pros who does more than one Ironman does not/cannot lead a balanced life. I have found "balance" in the shorter distances. I can train an hour a day for 5-6 days a week, do well in my AG and do other things.

We are all different, so what works for me may not satisfy those with the long distances cravings.

The personality type that gravitates to triathlon does seem to be more prone to depression. Like (I think) Billy J said, I too have to work out A LOT to function like an adult. Depression and addiction have cropped up in several places in my family; interestingly, my wife tells me I'm an addict- to exercise. Maybe not as destructive at 1st look, but what if I quit my job and neglected family to pursue the sport? Same net effect on the family, so you have to maintain balance.

Hope you're OK. PM if you need to bend an ear- I'm in DeKalb.

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******************************
If I don't, who will? -Me
It's like being bipolar in opinion is a requirement around here. -TripleThreat

There is a difference between regular exercise and a total obsession with a sport and your performance in it.

triathlon got me out of my depressions.

In a mag I picked up in an airport recently, Men's Health I think, there was an article on this: people with depression being attracted to extreme exercise. The specific person they discussed was an Ironman and how he became obsessed with making himself feel better via training (if I remember correctly) - something that would never come via that approach.

I have the book The Chemistry of Joy writen by an MD on mutli-pronged approach to treating depression (diet, exercise, meds, certain supplements (but he doesn't sell them, just discusses what the research says), etc) and he says some types of depressed people should NOT engage in competitive sports. I need to dig out that book again.

He ID's three types of depression and the treatment strategies of each. Some need meds, not all. I remember thinking I may be the type who should not be doing tri's. Hmmm. If this thread is still up and running tomorrow I will report back.

C

I have battled alot of crazy things in my life.

Drug addiction,Hepatitis C, and depression now and then.

I was promoted Lifeguard Lieutenant a couple of years ago. Since then I have been threatened to be killed while riding my bike by a bunch of thugs who like to harass visitors.

I have also been threatened to be killed by co workers and they also threatened to rape my wife and run me over during the Ironman and make my little 6 year old girl watch.

So yes I have a little depression and i might even take some medication but it won't stop me from being in Kailua Bay in October.
Unless of course my second child is 2 weeks late.

Aloha Jason
As Our Great President Teddy Roosevelt said Speak softly and carry a big stick

I think there may be a link as far as type A people and OCD folks who are very attratced to triathlon. I also think these types are reluctant to go to a Dr. or take medication if they are truly depressed. I know a few people who soldier on and think "I've done an Ironman, I can get myself through this". Exercise is good medication for being stressed out, but for true depression, people need help from a professional.

>Why do you all think that this is?


Slowtwitch isn't representative of the triathlon community.

It is representative of a community of people that are into online/tech, triathlon, and also tend to have OCD qualities.

Why do we visit forums? Some are here to gain knowledge, some are here to draw attention to themselves, and some are here to be a smartass.

What do they all have in common? A reaching out to other people - a need to feel connected. We are drawn to this community to fill a void in our own lives. That doesn't make it unhealthy, but that kind of stew tends to draw unhealthy people.

There's been a lot written about the psychology of online groups - I'm just paraphrasing some of it.

here's the link to the Men's Health article you mention - interesting read.

http://www.menshealth.com/...CM20000012281eac____

(cut and paste it - I can't get the last 4 underscores to be automagically included in the hyperlink)

Hi, there. We met, remember? On the way to Orlando in January...

I agree with the others who said it's a chicken/egg phenomenon, in terms of triathletes being more likely to be depressed. I think what it is is that many of us are self-medicating via exercise. It can be a useful tool, but as others said, it has its limits.

I grew up intellectually gifted from the start, and intellectual competition was my "thing," and it carried over into the rest of my life. Win the reading prize, win the math prize, win the foreign languages prize, always be ahead of everyone else. Get the job, get the promotion, get the next promotion, get married, buy stuff, buy more stuff, buy even more stuff, end up depressed, end up divorced. Take up sports, start to get good at it, back to competition, start to see a repeating pattern.

I stopped the pattern (to an extent) 2 years ago by studying up on (I do like studying!) and practicing living in the moment (for lack of better description). Read some books, got a mentor, struggled for a few months, and then began seeing the light, as it were, and while I am not 100% "cured" of the need to do more, get more, have more, even BE more, I have learned that there is a place that I can go inside my head and be very happy there and like myself. I realize that I am always at odds with my ego, who still likes to win, to excel. And really, what's wrong with that? Nothing, as long as it doesn't become THE ONLY THING. Sure, I am still hard on myself when I don't live up to my crazy high standards, but I accept my own judgment of myself for what it is--a part of me that is yin/yang in nature, as it is both a good thing AND a bad thing.

My conclusion is that depression stems from a fundamental inability to live in the moment. When a person is depressed, there is a disabling combination of criticizing or reliving the past, and a fear of the future. Sure, there are stressors that can trigger the event, and I'm not saying nobody is immune from depression; rather that the sooner you can get on with taking care of the present, the better equipped you will be to ride it out. This doesn't mean a person can't experience the full range of human emotions--in fact, emotions are one of the richest elements of human existence. When my mom died a year ago, I was riddled with grief, and I tried as best I could to just flow with it rather than fight it. Was I depressed? No. Was I happy? No. But I didn't let my grief stop me from getting on with my life.

I am still learning this "living in the moment" thing. This doesn't mean I don't plan for my future, plan my training, plan my meals, etc. Planning is a very important and necessary part of existing within society. But I try and not let myself become crippled by it. What helps me is that I use my daily stretching as a sort of meditation time, I work on building and maintaining relationships (which is difficult for me as I consider myself a total social klutz), and I work on staying fit and healthy. Key in all of this is knowing when to seek help, detecting when my intellectual/physical/emotional/spiritual quadrants are seriously unbalanced, and taking appropriate action.

Nope you are not alone. You just haven't found a way to experience all that is you without it bringing you down. Sometimes therapy and medication can help you get there, sometimes a mentor, you can try meditation.

Two of the very best books I read that got through my thick head, if you're the self-study kind of guy:

• Awareness, by Anthony DeMello
• Going to Pieces Without Falling Apart (A Buddhist Perspective on Wholeness) by Mark Epstein, M.D.

You are a wise woman. I like you.

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Very good post. You are very special.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

Chemistry of Joy by M. Emmons. I'm gonna rearead it now that there have been three threads recently on this (other thread about a month ago, started, I think, by fitnesscoach?)

Thank you. I consider myself a work in progress.

Totally agree, and it's the reason that I don't believe in having to disclose my true name or get too personally involved. An online group of triathletes who are more than willing to offer advice on suicidal tendancies is not a healthy environment.

This place often get's far too personal, too touchy-feely, to be healthy. It is an online gathering place to discuss triathlon, but to many people it has become much more than that...a crutch, of sorts. People need to remember that online chatters are not a substitute for real people, real friends, or real company. It is a method of escape for people that would rather withdraw into themselves yet still convince themselves that they are "social."

Many here use ST for what it is - an entertaining way to stay informed in the world of triathlon. But some go over the top. For them, it is an addiction and a replacement for real life, much like any other online chat room. Not healthy.

There is a difference between posting often and posting because you need to. When you see signs of the latter, it's time to cut yourself off and make yourself join the real world again.

Thank you. We are all very special, but until we actually BELIEVE IT deep down inside, it can be difficult to live within our own heads.

Funny thing is that what initially showed me this transformation was possible was letting go of thoughts and expectations during an Ironman marathon in 2004. I felt so at peace, so in a flow state, that I wondered why I wasn't able to experience that in my daily life, including outside of sports? When I noticed I had huge blisters on my feet, I acknowledged them and moved on. When I noticed how fatigued my legs were, I acknowledged it and moved on. When I needed a mental pick-me-up, I engaged with spectators, who were more than happy to bring me back to a state of joy rather than suffering.

For me, the Ironman marathon now is one of my personal pinnacles of living in the moment. During the swim, it's all fighting and staying relaxed and not doing anything stupid. During the bike it's all working and not crashing and hydrating and nutrition and SO much attention to detail. But on the run, if you've made it through the swim and bike successfully, it's all pure joy--just let your legs do what they know how to do, free up your mind and enjoy the ride. Sure there is pain, sure you need to check yourself to stay on pace every now and then--but mostly you can revel in the joy of the spectators and volunteers, in your incredible health and the culmination of many months of work.

I figured if I could do it there, I could do it anywhere (yes, I also happen to love Dr. Seuss). And so my quest began. I still look forward to Ironman marathons, but I can get some of that same lift in my trivial daily life. And that is what will carry me forward and enable me to be successful at life.

You're one of the few who have found this fact, and made the transition. Tons here need to follow....

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

Maybe the connection is not depression & triathlon, but, instead, depression & Slowtwitch.

Hi Fefe,
Just reading your post and they are very informative. I was wondering what you think about tri people and the the idea that we look for a life of accomplishment vs. a life of happiness. I have noticed this in myself. I'm always looking for the next thing to accomplish or improve at. I have always felt that I need to do something significant with my life which I feel is leading to a life constant disappointment because ie. race results are never good enough. I posted the following quote to R10C in a previous thread but find that it does help me bring things into perspective and not be afraid of being happy in my life. I think that we are fearful of something, we need to find it and embrace that fear so we can find a way to conquer it. If we can all find a way to "live in the moment" and enjoy the beautiful thing that we call life, smile a little more (it's contagious) we all can liberate ourselves as well as one person at a time that you share a happy moment with.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine as children do. It's not just in some of us; it is in everyone. And as we let our own lights shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." Coach Carter - the movie

I am not a triathlete, but I come to slowtwitch to learn about endurance. It has been interesting to read everyone's responses to triathlon vs. depression. I was surprised that no one has brought up the spiritual aspect. No matter whether you are Christian, Jewish or any other, think about how truly blessed you are to be able to pursue your athletic interests. There are millions of people around the world who cannot do what you do: cannot swim, cannot bike, cannot run, whether it be a physical or a mental roadblock. Feel blessed that you are treating your body as a temple, making healthy lifestyle choices. Enjoy the endorphins after a workout instead of feeling beat up. It's all in your perspective and outlook. Endurance athletes are very "motivated", but you need "inspiration" to make it last. I believe that "inspiration" can be found in the simplest forms by looking inward and to the spiritual and counting your blessings each and every day.

That is a beautiful quote, and one that rings so true with me. In childhood, I was encouraged to stand out and excel and win and seek new challenges, and I enjoyed it just for the sake of doing it. And then my ego got in the way, and I continued doing those things, only it was not so much for the pure sake of doing it, but rather to accomplish more and more and to get the "rewards" that society deems appropriate for excellence, like money and possessions. This began in my 20's and continued on into my 30's, and then I began to feel that I was missing the boat, and that's when the depressive episodes began. I questioned my entire modus operandi.

What I ended up discovering is that I am very passionate person, and I bring that passion to most things that I do. Look at any person who is good at something--they got that way because they worked hard, and usually because they are passionate about that thing. What is wrong with that? Nothing. But society now seems to value the end result more than the intrinsic passion of the person who scored the goal, painted the painting, got the promotion, won the race. And this messes with our heads. It's only natural to feel good for being praised for an end result, right? We are, after all human. The secret then, I believe is to learn to embrace your passion and focus more on the process, and then when results come, you can experience joy in that, too. But if you consider that an end result is just the sum of many seemingly continuous "moments," (I'm a trained mathematician; hence my love of mathematical analogies) and you learn to revel in those moments as well as the outcome, then you can experience a level of enjoyment that exceeds whatever accomplishments you might gain.

The quote that I have printed and next to my work station is this:

"When the archer shoots for no particular prize, he has all his skills; when he shoots to win a brass buckle, he is already nervous; when he shoots for a gold prize, he goes blind, sees two targets, and is out of his mind. His skill has not changed, but the prize divides him. He cares! He thinks more of winning than of shooting, and the need to win drains him of power."
--Tranxu

and this is how I attempt to live my life. It works much of the time, but not 100%, because I DO find myself caring about the result, the accolades, the prize. But I've learned that seeking such excellence is a good thing and part of who I am, and in learning to exist with the ebb and flow of my ego, I am a much "happier" person.

In truth, I don't seek "happiness" per se. Instead, I am finding that just by DOING WHAT I AM DOING RIGHT NOW that I am able to deal with emotional ups and downs much better. For example, sometimes when I am doing the dishes, I am thinking about so much trivial crap. Better to JUST DO THE DISHES. When I'm in planning mode, I can focus just on that. When I'm biking, I am BIKING. When I am swimming, I AM SWIMMING. I find it entertaining that people still ask me what I think about when I am swimming 2+ miles continuously. My answer? SWIMMING.

Bingo. It's probably more a case of "depression & internet forums" than "depression & (enter sport here)."

Maybe the connection is not depression & triathlon, but, instead, depression & Slowtwitch.

That's a depressing thought.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

I don't get depressed as long as I can workout regularly. There are a lot of studies indicating that regular exercise is as effective as any drug in preventing/managing depression. The connection runs from depression to triathlon, not the other way, I think.

Also, studies of happiness show that a good predictor is the number and quality of personal relationships, involvement in community, social interactions, etc. Those of us who are slowtwitch obsessives probably tend to be less-well connected in this regard than other triathletes..

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

That is a great quote, one that I will keep as well.
What you say makes perfect sense. I often wonder what is it in humans that seeks out accolades from other people for what we do, whether it be sports or work related. I understand that it make us "feel good". Is it a subconscious thing that says that we are better than others? Not sure but maybe part of it.

It's funny I get the same question a lot of the time as well, about what I think about during the swim or a 6hr bike ride. I often tell people I don't think about much. On the bike or run I'm listening to music just thinking how lucky am I to be out riding on such a beautiful day. I try to "take in" my surroundings and appreciate the nature all around me. Feeling the wind flow over my body and the sun rays hitting my skin is truly a wonderful thing. It gives me goose bumps thinking about it. Every time that happens it makes me realize that there is more to life than my finishing time.

Passion is a wonderful thing. It makes all the little ups and downs worth while in life. I work as a paramedic and often see a lot of negative things. Sometimes I feel all the negative things that happen to people that I deal with affecting my mood but all it takes is a outdoor swim/bike or run to bring me back to my "happy" place. We all need to find the ability to do that. Sometimes instead of training we need to do thing just for fun, just go for a ride/ run with no expectations no plan and we will find that ability to shine like a child.

S !

Love what you wrote............and I think you hit the nail on the proverbial head with the "living in the moment" ideal.Excellent stuff.

You getting a session couch to go with that new bike of yours ; )

And to Chip-

Welcome back pal. I've been around for a bit now, and I DO recall most of your threads that were life related. I just wish there was more I could say that would matter,but I don't, except that I always hope things work out for you.

Peace!

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Seeing him in deep torment, I said. " You can have my last GU , but its been down my pants for most of the run". - John Hirsch

Take care of your body, its by far the coolest thing you're going to ever own.- Can't remember who told me this, but I love it.

Yeah if I was a shrink, I'd prescribe a new bike to fix what ails you.

Ok, cat is out of the bag--I'm getting a Pinarello Dogma FPX. I should have it built up in about 2 weeks, and will, of course, post pics.

Interesting thing is that as much as I enjoy receiving EXTERNAL accolades and rewards, sometimes I am loathe to give myself rewards, I guess because I worry I will get back into the "more is more" mode.

But the Pinarello will provide me with much joy and will be a thing to behold, visually! Nothing wrong with that!

Perhaps this quote isn't truly applicable to life, but I think it's still inspiring and friggin awesome:

"There are few problems in life that pedaling harder can't make better."
-The Man, the machine, the world champion, Roland Green

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"I like to start out slow, and then taper off."

-Doug Thorne (TVHS XC)

Crackhead please tell me you didn't get a triple.

It is what it is...nothing more or less. Enjoy today.

glad you're back and hope you're feeling better. I took Effexor for four years for dysthymia (before I was triathlon training) and it worked really well for me. it was a bitch for me to get off of, but you don't have to deal with that right now. :) I do agree with what someone else said about getting therapy in addition to the medication. one alone sometimes isn't enough. I really don't have anything more to offer than to let you know I'm thinking about you and good luck.
Cam

Nuh-uh. No triple!

DA10 gruppo
DA pedals
Ergomo w/compact crank
Fulcrum Racing Wheels (red)
Salsa Ti skewers (red)
Salsa carbon Poco bar
Arundel Trident carbon cages
Sidi shoes
Vittoria tires

and I've already received fashion tips and admonitions about no Bento Box, no XLAB, no tri shorts.

That's my girl.

Chip,

First, I'll echo what a lot have said and welcome you back. I'm glad to hear that you seem to be getting the help that you need.

I have written a lot about my story in various threads over the past year. I can say that I am not sure that triathlon and depression are linked in that one causes the other.

I do think there are a ton of people who race triathlons that are depressed and they use tri as a tool to combat the symptoms of depression.

I also think that triathlon draws a certain personality type that might be more apt to suffer from OCD which can also lead to depression.

As far as the effects of anti-depressives it seems to be very individual. In my case I was taking an SSRI (Lexapro) and the hardest side effect that I suffered was that I really needed to get 8 hours of sleep EVERY day no matter what. I was completely unable to function if I did not get that sleep. It was tough on my training because early morning training sessions were difficult, and my job sometimes puts me in a sleep deprived state. So my off days were often messed up.

I haven't read through this entire thread, but scanning through a bunch of them it seems like you are getting some pretty different and varied advice.

Keep on keeping on, my brother!!!

Bernie

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"Slowbern has always made astute observations."-Casey 03/10/2009
2013-2014 Detroit Lions---13-3 until proved otherwise.

here's my experience and guess. I think very many people are affected by mood swings and depression. It's just that exercise can help you elevate your mood. It's an effective anti-depressant. The only problem with me is that when the weather is good I could train all day and am on top of the world. Better than I would ever feel without exercising.But once I get depressed I stop exercising. I know I shouldn't but I fall into one of those "endless cycles". And the lack of exercise makes me more depressed. I think exercise can mess with your homonal balances and going from exercising while being in a great mood, to stop exercising when I first get down is an amplyfier to my problem.

With me the onset of depression is very weather related. I'm all happy and can train all day long when the sun is shining and the temperatures are warm. I can deal with one day of clouds, but after that I'm in trouble. I lose focus and all of a sudden don't care anymore about my training. Luckily just temporarily until the sun pops out again.

Today is one of those days...shouldn't it be sunny here in California??? I will have to force myself to go exercise. I know it shouldn't be that big of a deal but I'm not myself when the sun is not out. Maybe I should get some anti-depressant medicine I can pop when I start feeling the initial change in my mood with "bad" weather. Or maybe I should relocate from the Earth to the Sun.

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�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

Chip

Sorry to read that you've been plagued by such doubts and fears. FWIW give yourself some credit....your'e doing ok and will be ok. Always remember you are not alone on this anxiety/depression thing. Ain't one person around who has not been affected to some degree at one point.

As a poster noted, there is correlation between depression and overtraining. I know that from experience. I had to bail on IMAZ. I covered that on a previous thread.

I was in the dumps for a couple weeks......but as it is written, time heals all wounds.

Now I am back to training......but the game plan is, it must be fun. You have to be going out the door looking forward to the workout, not doing it because you "have to."

My work schedule is what it is. One can't force the training in no matter what. YOu can only do what your schedule alows.

So, take the small victories that each day affords. For example, I swam with the masters last night. Got in the fast lane. Were a couple gals in it.....ex collegiate. For the main set, 11x200. First three on 2:50 sendoff, then 2:45, then 2:40. Told the coach and the gals, I'll do the best that I can. Made the first two with 5 seconds rest. Then fell off pace. Coach saw I was struggling so he moved me down a lane to a 3:05 sendoff. I was blown but was able to hold pace.

That is what I mean by a small victory. On my own I never would have attempted a 2:50 send-off. But I tried, and held for a couple.

Or today, PR'd a 2 mile t-run. That is what I can do with my lifestyle now, short-course fun stuff.

Keep it fun. Last weekend, St. Patricks Day, the masters swim coach (Silverman RD) held at his house, a St. Pat's 3 mile beer run. You drink a beer at the start, then each mile another. No spilling allowed. It was a blast. I told him that was the most fun I've had at a race in years.

Keep it fun.

good luck Chip,

Conrad

Triathlon and depression - connected?

Not for me, but I can tell from some of the threads here and in particular the Ray Britt story that for some/many this may be a reality. I feel deeply sorry for people that have to deal with this. It must be a very challenging situation. Some of the posts over the years from some people here on ST, have sounded very troubling and I do wonder what dark forces are motivating or affecting these people. I must confess, I am never really sure what to say in these situations.

Personally, in an overall way, I have found nothing but joy, happiness and fullfillment with my life long involvement in sport -I realize this sounds corny, but it's true. There have been a a few down times( the odd ill timed injury and the big melt-down at IMH '93), but for me there is no happier time that when I am out training, standing on the starting line or in the middle of a race. At those moments there is no place that I would rather be. If nothing else, the training and racing have been an escape and a time to be on my own from time to time and think pure and uninterupted thoughts.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Haven't read every reply, but a couple that mention the fact that triathlon tends to draw addictive/obsessive personalities is likely worth noting in the overall picture.

For me, it's lack of training that contributes to any depressional (hey look, new word!) tendencies or feelings I might have---and conversely, if events in my life are starting to become suffocating, in the past I have escaped that with training.

But overall I would say that a direct link between training for triathlon and depression would be a stretch---with the caveat that there's a bunch of us that do have lots going on in our personal lives that could cause depressive feelings....if that makes any sense...and just because we're triathletes doesn't mean that training was the cause.

....except if we continue to hammer away excessively at training in the face of whatever might be going on in life. At that point it would seem external pressures of peers and family members wondering what the hell we're doing training when "x, y and z" are going on could cause someone to feel the weight of that pressure and have it turn into depression...?

Just some rambling thoughts.

Good luck with this, Chip. You are correct in that there are more folks here than we might think/admit that have experienced varying levels of clinical depression....

I am not so sure. The number of PM's that I have seen that are "me too" or "I am also on this or that med" is just to many. I am thinking that many of us may do Tri cause we dont know what we would do if we didnt. I have to run - but I have more quotes (I will never say who said what) from PM's and thoughts about what I have seen and felt.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Don't get me wrong---I believe that many people here are on some sort of med or suffer varying degrees of depression, I'm just not sure (and speaking completely as a lay-person here with absolutely zero book knowledge of psychology) that triathlon training is the cause or is a connection with great significance....most likely a fair representation of the population at large.

Again, just shooting from the hip on this one.

I would caution drawing conclusions based on PMs. Given how many people are actual registered users of ST and lurkers, I would believe that the number of PMs would still be a small percentage of the ST users, and would probably mimic the percentage of incidents in the general population.

I don't discount that many people have related closely to what you are going through. Probably many more have not even been aware and responded. But I don't think the triathlon is directly linked to depression. Too many other compounding issues are involved. To say so would lead many of these people to the wrong conclusion or diagnosis or possible path of recovery.

Take care and be strong.

Chris

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Chris
*********************
“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”
― Hunter S. Thompson,

I think the hardcore Type A personality usually associated with dedicated athletes of any kind (but especially those of us crazy enough to stack three together) is very conducive to depression. I know a lot of crazy ultra-runners and triathletes, that's for sure.

Looking to find a connection between triathlon training/racing and depression is kind of missing the point, no? Rather than seek validation of that (for whatever reason, who knows), how about defining the hypothesis to why people who obsessively pursue anything to the exclusion of all (or many) of life's other rich moments are perhaps more prone to depression?

Probably because the same people would be prone to depression no matter which particular pursuit they took up, and ST attracts many who have already gone far beyond the need for healthy exercise, so that would seem to explain to me why Chip is discovering such a preponderance of depression and meds here. Not because the relationship is triathlon-specific--but because it is "excess"-specific.

Hey, obsessive Cubs fans (Chip are you that, too?), Packers fans and assorted other sports team fans are also prone to depression for putting all their eggs in one basket. So are many artists and writers. So are perfectionists, no matter what is their current object of desire.

Just as a diet rich in variety and moderation is viewed as good, so is a life rich in variety and moderation, but if one must pursue a passion to the nth degree, one needs to be extra careful to stay in balance by periodically removing oneself from the object of passion.

So instead of wondering why is triathlon seemingly making a person more prone to depression, instead try asking what is the intrinsic nature of the personality type that pursues triathlon to such a degree that they base their life definition of happiness on it?

Anyone who works full time 40-60 hours per week and stacks on top of that a hobby that requires another 15-25 (which is reality when you consider the costume changes, extra showers, travel to training/racing, extra sleep, etc.) hours a week, and it's like you are back in college constantly cramming for exams. Of course that sets you up for depression. Exercise in true moderation (about an hour a day) does provide all sorts of benefits without all the added stress of planning, training, planning training, racing, planning racing and such. It's like we've created a whole other life that we are trying to manage. No wonder it can wreak havoc with our psyches! Exercise in moderation is stress-relieving; constant competition and many hours of training probably create as much if not more stress as they relieve, unless one keeps it all in perspective.

But some manage to do it, and do it well, and some don't. There is no shame in saying, "I am not mentally strong enough to handle my 50-hour per week job plus another 25 hour per week commitment to a hobby." So if occasionally you aren't able to handle all of that at once, step off for a bit or step off permanently and know that doing less does not make YOU less.

Thank you for all your insight.
You're amazing.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Yeah, what she said.

<very well written>

I have found that "setting my sights low and frequently achieving them" also applies to my search for happiness in my life...

For example, I always find a smile in the pure poetry of TC's sig lines.

Brad

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3SIXTY5cycling.com

Man, your essay was about the best I've read here in a long time.

Taking a step back is sometimes the absolute best thing to do. Make sure it is fun or what's the point? To re-examine oneself in all aspects of life reveals things that are sometimes not good. And those are the points of life to make changes upon. For yourselve and the others around you. For the better.

You are in the area...how do I meet you again? Not some freak airport meeting...

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Hey, Chip.

Drop me a PM!

One of the beautiful things about triathlon is that it attracts highly intelligent, energetic individuals like you and many who frequent ST. When you discover there is a whole community of people like yourself, it can be very intoxicating. But we must not lose sight of who we are while we engage in something that involves so much doing. We are not what we think; we are not what we do; we just are.

When we (and this has been a lifelong struggle for me, too) are too focused on the thinking and doing, we lose touch with ourselves--a hallmark of depression. When we're depressed, we don't like ourselves, much less the rest of the world! In depression we become even more caught up with the failure of our thinking and doing to bring us mental/spiritual relief, as at the onset of depression, warning signs include an inability to enjoy DOING things you normally enjoy and an inability to THINK clearly and rationally about your true state of being. Sounds like a taper, right? Tapers are self-induced potential depressive episodes, if you ask me. Which is why I'm extra careful to take care of ME when I'm tapering, because it's easy to fall into a pattern of distorted thinking.

At least that's my philosophy...

My mentor is a man who meditates about 3 hours a day (and he happens to be my massage therapist--I will refer you to him if you like). THREE HOURS A DAY!!! It was interesting when we met that we looked at each other like lunatics--how can a person TRAIN so much is what he was thinking, and how can a person MEDITATE so much is what I was thinking? And then we realized we are very much alike, as to an extent, my training IS my meditation, or at least ideally that's how I like it to operate.

Anyway, he encouraged me to try meditation, and I fought it and fought it. After all, meditation is a method for turning off the brain's thinking center (or an attempt to, anyway) in order to get in touch with that "self" that is inside each of us, that doesn't judge, that doesn't need to do--effectively, stepping away from your own ego. Instead, I've been able to incorporate smidgens of true meditation, recognize when my ego is getting the better of me (and I don't always win that battle!), and focus more on being present and being able to "watch myself" as much as possible. This does not mean I have lost my silly sense of humor or drive to excel or seemingly wide mood swings (emotions are fun, no?) or penchant for being well-dressed, love of puns, etc. In fact, by going with what's happening more of the time, I've found I can enjoy the things I love even more. But since there are so many of them, I am eminently aware of the need to "put things away" every now and then, and find that (just like in triathlon training), I don't really lose "fitness" by stepping away from something.

There is a way to be slightly obsessive and yet not fall apart at the seams when your own attempts at bringing yourself back to center are failing. That's why I recommend that book "Going to Pieces without Falling Apart." When you can learn to look at yourself and your actions as if standing apart from yourself, it becomes a tool that you can use regularly when your ego is interfering with an otherwise healthy life. Doesn't mean people won't punch your buttons (just last week I let go a filthy diatribe on a motorist who nearly ran me over, and I thoroughly enjoyed delivering the tongue-lashing!), doesn't mean you won't experience pain and disappointment--just means you become better able to put those things in perspective.

fefe,
nice series of posts. I, too, have found meditation to be very helpful in stepping away from the ego, as you accurately put it. It's amazing how cluttered and conditioned the mind can get during the course of daily life. It's quite dramatic when you stop and allow youself to become aware of the process.

Finally, after years of sturggle, I sought help from a psychaitrist and was diagnosed as being depressed and suffering from anxiety, panic disorder, and obsessive compulsive personality disorder. Triathlon, and running before that, are both helpful and hindrances in that.

Athletics, esp. competitive athletics, can be a boon in that activity realses all those endorphins, keeps me in good shape, gives me something to focus on etc. But on the other hand, it simply feeds my anxiety and obsessoins... "I have to do X"... "I have to do Y"... "I failed at Z"

I am on Lexapro, with the occasional Klonopin and Ativan as a buffer.

Feel free to PM me if you want to chat--I truly have been there, and still am, for that matter :-)

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