tie your swimsuit sting tight

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"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

Bellyflops are cool

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Okay, that one I learned I have learned the hard way, even from a push.

I am concerned about what to do after my dive knocks my goggles off, though.

Wear your goggles tight and under your swim cap. Have your eyes follow your hands into the water. You'll be fine.

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Live long and surf!

I'm guessing that you are doing the 500 and/or mile. The first 100 will be faster than your goal pacing, but settle onto a pace and don't slow in the middle third of the race. Shoot for even splits. then close the last 100 increasing speed each 25.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I am concerned about what to do after my dive knocks my goggles off, though.

Swim with them in your mouth so they mess up your breathing as well as your eyes (yes, I have managed to do this, no, it does not help speedwise...).

Don't enter too fast a time or you might end up in a heat with a bunch of people faster than you and go too fast trying to keep up and then go into the biggest oxygen debt of your life (yup, done this too).

Do enter the IM races because most people don't bother so you're much more likely to place :)

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

[reply]Wear your goggles tight and under your swim cap. [/reply]

Doh! Is this the reason I should have held onto all of those free swim caps from tris? Or is a tri race swim cap at a masters meet the same style faux pas as wearing a tri top on a group ride?

Seriously, though, if I'm not going to shave and taper, is it worth buying a cap?

Nah. The strap will stay on if you swim capless,but I could never get the strap to stay on if I wore it over my cap.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Practice diving off of the blocks

Write your heats and lane assignments on your hand so you don't forget them.

Bring some food and drink.

jaretj

If you are doing distance free events, make sure you've got someone to do lap cards for you.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Bring an extra towel- one to wrap around you during the meet, another one that's still dry for the shower before you go home.

Wear a cap. Pull it down tight and over the tops of your ears. This makes you more streamlined in the water.

Go ahead and shave. You're a triathlete and a cyclist--you don't need any other excuse.

Do flip turns. Practice them if you haven't been. Only 80 year-old ladies do open turns in swim meets.

Don't false start. It's one and you're done now--not like the old days when you got a second chance.

Be sure to get a good warm-up and cool down (if lanes available).

Don't practice dives during warm-up unless there is a lane designated for that.


p.s.--there is no difference between a "tri race swim cap" and any other swim cap.

What events are you swimming?

How'd you guess? It's actually the 1000 at this meet.


Excellent pacing advice. That sounds pretty much like my plan. If I can manage to catch glimpses of a pace clock, I might even have a chance of executing it.

I'm also swimming the 200 free, 200 breast, and 50 breast. And probably some relays. The 200 breast will be where I have the most problems with pacing, I think.

Don't expect a T-shirt.....
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Born again Heathen
In Case of Keith Moon - Break This Glass
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Do expect to have a good time, especially, if you are on a competitive team. Cheering for teammates, when you come from the individuality of triathlon, is fun.

Bob Sigerson

Just my guess as a swimmer, but I'd say wearing your goggles under your cap at a Masters Swim Meet would qualify as a faux pas... I've never seen a 'swimmer' do this...only see this at tris. But hey, do whatever works. The end goal is to be able to see and to do well... if that means goggles under the cap, go for it. I think you'll be fine if you don't have one too...just a master's meet for fun I am guessing.

Not true. I always wore goggles under my cap (and yes, I was a swimmer, and no, I wasn't alone). Some goggle strap, head shape combos just don't work without a pair of ears to keep the straps in place.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

There's a 69-year-old seeded ahead of me in the 200 free, so I'll be in about the same boat as Frazz.

I'm already used to getting outswum by kids. I can't make the "A" time standard for 11-12 girls...

[reply]Do enter the IM races because most people don't bother so you're much more likely to place :)[/reply]

I considered this. But I'm not staying for both days of the meet, and the only IM race on Saturday is a 400 IM. Placing in that race would require me to survive it first.

[reply]
If you are doing distance free events, make sure you've got someone to do lap cards for you. [/reply]

I've got some teammates that can do that.

Is there any common system for getting them to let me know if I'm going over/under target pace?

work that out with them....as far as moving it up and down, or side to side. Seriously, we're talking about a pool meet here and i can't believe no one has mentioned your streamline and kick off of each turn. You wouldn't believe how much that would help. Just focus on 3 hard kicks off the wall and good streamlined position (biceps into the side of your head) and you won't notice how much the race hurts. :)

Eric

1- First, get there early enough to practice starts (so you can get your goggles tight enough without actually causing your head to pop).

2- Don't enter the 400 IM

3- Seed yourself slower than you think you can swim because everybody sandbags. If you enter the right time, don't be sucked into going out too fast, because (as stated earlier) all those sandbaggers will be swimming 5-10 seconds per hundred faster than their seed times and you'll be thinking you're swimming to slow.

4- Just like running a 5 or 10K, beware of the adrenalin rush. You'll undoubtedly go out too fast and suffer for it, but try to hold back and maybe it won't suck too much.

5- Enter a whole buncha sprints, they're a gas. See if you can do 50 without breathing. The most painful race of the day (outside of the 400 IM) is the 200 free, 'cuz you PR the first hundred and then you carry the piano for the next hundred.

6- If you wear contact lenses, bring spares. If you're goggles pop off in a race, just suck it up and keep swimming.

7- Do relays.

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

If you are worried about dying in the 200 breast, really work your walls and pullouts/streamline (hopefully you are doing pullouts). They are tons of free speed and more importantly, rest. Good luck.

Adam

Don't forget your swimsuit.

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It's a bird, it's a plane, no it's.....Mequonman.

"Do enter the IM races because most people don't bother so you're much more likely to place :)"
- - Cruel advice to give a rookie. You're also more likely to blow chunks in an IM!!

And you just never know. At our SCM championships two years ago, I entered the 400 IM, because it was on Friday and I figured it was a sure thing for first or second for two reasons: a) No one in their right mind swims 400 IM and b) Fewer people will be there on Friday because of work and travel to the meet. Turns out that damn near everybody in my AG had the same thought. So after nearly puking I ended up 6th out of 31. That's a lot of geezers doing 400 IM, 'cuz I'm in 55-59. Conversely, I managed to win the 100 free because everybody thought everybody else was doing it apparently opting for the 400 IM instead, thinking it was low-hanging fruit!!

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

You cannot have anyone give you pacing information in a meet. You will be DQed if that is noticed by the judge. You have to go by feel. In your final practices between now and the meet, you should work on your pacing.

Cruel advice to give a rookie. Your also more likely to blow chunks in an IM!!

Not if your breastroke is so slow that you get a nice rest halfway though :)

Realistically I'm never going to place in my AG (32 now, started doing masters meets in my late 20s) as any proper swimmers who show up will be miles ahead. I entered the IM for a laugh at the last meet I did, didn't try to go 100% so no puking and was second of two so I got my ribbon...I then immediately retired from swim meets...

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

Is there any common system for getting them to let me know if I'm going over/under target pace?


I usually ask for this: just hold the thing steady in the water if I'm on pace and make sure you pull it up before I turn --- tug it forcibly up and down if I'm going too slowly.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

The pacing rules are pretty much unenforcable since at so many pools you can sneak an easy peek at the running timing system clock during the middle of the race.

So the pacing rules end up coming down to not being allowed to wear a watch during the race, which is no big deal.

"is a tri race swim cap at a masters meet the same style faux pas as wearing a tri top on a group ride?"

No big deal, because you'll want them to know you're a triathlete. As a triathlete, 22:00-23:00 is an acceptable 1500 time. At a swim meet, it's pathetic.

So wear you're tri shit, and maybe even ride your race bike to th meet. That way you can pretend that you're really fast on the bike and run and you won't be so embarrassed after that 69-year-old kicks your ass in the 1000... And it happens. At our LCM championships last year Jim Clemmons (USMS swimmer of the year 55-59). Finished 8th overall in the 1500 and posted a 2:39 for 200 IM (that's meters, folks!!). So a whole shitload of young swimmers had their asses kicked by an old dude. There's some frighteningly fast geezers out there.

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

Hey - what are you doing for events?

if you are doing any medley events, make sure you've got the turns down.
-signed, girlwhoaccidentallyflipturnedintothenextlaneoverthefirsttimesheswama200IM

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Now that's good advice. Seriously. I never would have thought of that.

I can't believe all of the rule changes. The toughest one to get over is my phobia against putting my head underwater in breaststroke.


Sure there is -- the "tri race swim cap" has the name of the race on it!

Just some advice...

If you don't use a swim cap during practices you might not want to wear one for the meet. A 1000 is a long race and it can get hot wearing a cap. I've never worn a cap for anything over 200. But if you practice with them, then it won't make a difference.

I am deck entering the master's meet here tomorrow. I saw the sheet of swimmers signed up already. Looks like I will be competing against an 81 yr old in a few events. He is signed up for the 1000! Dang! This could be a humbling experience, or inspriational....guess I'll find out.

Yea, bring food, extra t-shirts, towels, goggles, etc, expecially if you are doing multiple events. I have snapped goggles and caps at the blocks and that isn't fun.

That, and flip turns are allowed in backstroke now. Also, there was some discussion about what is and isn't allowed in a breastroke turn and pull off the wall. Don't know if that was a rule change or not, being a non-breastroker and all.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

[reply]Seed yourself slower than you think you can swim because everybody sandbags. If you enter the right time, don't be sucked into going out too fast, because (as stated earlier) all those sandbaggers will be swimming 5-10 seconds per hundred faster than their seed times and you'll be thinking you're swimming to slow. [/reply]

Now you tell me. My seed times were good-faith estimates. So you're telling me I'm going to lose my heat? And that I'm not as MOP as the psych sheet indicates?

[reply] If you wear contact lenses, bring spares. If you're goggles pop off in a race, just suck it up and keep swimming. [/reply]

Good tip.

You're joking, right?

I've got a decent pullout, but that's definitely the most painful part. I feel like my lungs are going to burst. Free speed, yes. Free rest, my ass.

Good to know, thanks. There's really a "no outside assistance" style rule against this? If so, I'll bail on that plan. Even if it is unenforceable.

The meet's tomorrow, so no more practices. I'm fine on pacing by "feel" for anything 500 or shorter, but I could easily get it wrong by a second or two per 100 in the middle of the 1000 free.

And I can't wear a watch!? I imagine I would have taken it off anyway, but that's news to me too.

[reply]Hey - what are you doing for events? [/reply]

1000 free, 200 free, 200 breast, 50 free, maybe some relays

[reply] if you are doing any medley events, make sure you've got the turns down.
-signed, girlwhoaccidentallyflipturnedintothenextlaneoverthefirsttimesheswama200IM
[/reply]

The only chance for medley is in a relay, so no hybrid turns needed. I doubt I would know how to do the proper back->breast or breast->free turn. My turns are clearly not fancy enough, because I can't imagine how I'd end up in the wrong lane...

There's an 85-year-old in three of my events tomorrow. Luckily, I think I can take him. Unless this is that whole sandbagging thing again...

Yup

#1 Have fun.

#2 don't worry about everyone, they are to busy worrying about themselves, just like you are worrying about yourself.

Thats about it

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I'm just a 10 cent rider on a $2,500.00 Bike

"So you're telling me I'm going to lose my heat? And that I'm not as MOP as the psych sheet indicates?"
- - Actually, you're MORE MOP/BOP than the psych sheet indicates and you're likely to get obliterated in your heat. Sandbagging is rampant and Tod Spieker (really fast guy who has held/holds a lot records) usually sandbags his 1500 by 3-5 minutes. He apparently gets his rocks off by lapping slower swimmers.
Just don't get double psyched thinking that you're killing yourself and swimming slow at the same time. Don't trust the competition to set your pace.
Personally, I think they should DQ anyone who beats their seed time by more than 10 sec per hundred. Sandbagging really screws things up, imho.

Incidentally, if you have a goal pace, you can have signals with your lap counter to indicate if you're going out too fast. I usually tell my counter to swing the number from side to side if I'm going too fast and yank it up and down if I'm going too slow. Then I just ignore that because I'm basically going as fast as I think I can already!! But you're VERY likely to go out too fast, so having a signal for that could be helpful. Once you get to 300 or so, you just get into the zone and grind out the laps. Then when they drop the meatball (the red blot that tells you you're on your last lap) you just try to find something extra to bring it home. However, if you've got anything left at that point, it means you were doggin' it...

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

My turns are clearly not fancy enough, because I can't imagine how I'd end up in the wrong lane...



It was when I was a freshman in HS so I don't remember it all that well - except I think it was coming from fly into back, I pushed off on my back in a beautiful, fast streamline, but had pushed off at a really bad angle that shot me right into the other swimmers lane.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Hee, hee, hee...
No joke. You need to practice doing double pullouts and also swimming no-breathers. It is tough, but it makes you faster. If you get the chance to see Natalie Coughlin at FINA next week, check out how long she dolphins underwater on fly and backstroke. It's un-freaking-believable...

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

I do wear my watch in swim meets, but there is no way I'd be able to even sneak a peek at it long enough to read it without slowing down too much.

Basically my pacing strategy is: 50 and 100 = balls out all the way; 200 = fast first 50, hard cruise next 100, fast last 50; 500 = fast first 100, cruise next 300, fast last 100.

Again, it's more of a feel thing, and the more swim meets you do, the more you understand what you should do. You have to swim some events at "race pace" in practice though, to develop the feel.

As far as outside assistance--your coach can stand on the side of the pool and shout "faster, faster, pick it up!" or wave his arms or pump his fist. That's legal. If he starts calling out split times, that's illegal.

[reply]Just my guess as a swimmer, but I'd say wearing your goggles under your cap at a Masters Swim Meet would qualify as a faux pas... I've never seen a 'swimmer' do this...only see this at tris.

>>>>>>i'd like to put in an opposing view: definitely wear them under your cap and join the rest of us who do. reasons: if they come down, they're at least still on your body; the straps won't move; you can effectively pull the front edge of the cap just slightly over the top of the goggle edge (not lens) to further secure them on the dive. the actual dive usually moves the cap up a notch and off/back onto the skin of the forehead.
for all of the meets and events i've done, i still work with keeping the goggles on and not leaking from the dive, so this is a big deal when i race. i tighten my goggles, too, for races. i found that tight goggles only bother me after about a half mile venture, so don't worry for the shorter stuff. for open water swims i don't tighten them as there's almost never a dive entry, and i don't want to drive myself nuts with tight goggles over a long distance.
as for the 200 breaststroke (my favorite), i've done best mentally setting myself to push the third 50. as with all other strokes and distances, i just do the best i can on the last 50, and play like the horse headed for the barn.
most of all: have fun at this. these meets are a kick.
peggy

So all this stuff about pacing assistance got me thinking: we all look down on someone who didn't know about drafting rules when entering their first tri, so maybe I'd better read a rule book before entering my first swim meet.

The relevant USMS rule states that "Swimmers are not permitted to wear or use any device or substance to help their speed, pace, or buoyancy." (emphasis mine)

I don't know whether my lap-counting buddy counts as a "device" or not. But I found a pretty unambiguous statement by the Rules Committee on the USMS web site that says "this change does not prohibit one from conveying pace information through hand signals, placement of lap counters and the like."

[reply]
Haha, well I guess you need to work on your lung capacity too. [/reply]

I can stretch my pullout way out at practice pace. But for an all-out 200, about three or four of those turns are misery.

I can't dispute that I'd be faster with bigger lungs, though.

I tend to pace my race like so:

first 100 = on the point of uncomfortable but not. As in if I went any faster I'd start to feel it so I just stay in cruising pace, which i usually split about 54 for scy or 1:00 for scm.

third 50 = Attack. This is where you drop the people who went out too fast by starting your sprint.

Last 50 = All you have left. that third 50 will take out most of your energy but you should have make some space between you and the field and you give what you have left and sprint to the end.

I can consistently swim around 1;54.00 scy or 2;07 scm... thats the strat that works for me.

bring 2 pair of goggles and 2 suits, warm up, hydrate, hit the bathroom before your events, don't want a turtle head poking out midway throught the 1000 free or 200 breast

in the 1000 get a tempo going after the first 50 and you settle down. If you want to speed up increase the tempo, don't pull harder. Somehow focusing on tempo instead of pulling hard avoids fatigue.

200 breast, 2 count glide in streamline each stroke the first 50, 1 count glide the 2nd 50, no glide after each full streamline the 3rd 50 and all you got last 50

like everyone said, work the walls, you can't swim as fast as you can push off and streamline. swim hard into the turns, don't coast

have fun

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"I came to Alaska at the perfect time, the price of crab was high, they didn't think cocaine was addictive and there were no sexually transmitted diseases that couldn't be cured with antibiotics....the plan was to live fast and die young...I guess it didn't work out" Wayne Baker

I had a high school swimmer want to try one of those 400 IM thingies. So I as the FOOL I am said "sure lets go".
I haven't swam one of those since my senior year in College. That was in 1981!

Freakin' brutal

A couple of days later same dude wants to try a 200 fly.

He lapped me. But he did stay in the water until I was finished.

I am not sure which was worse the 400 IM or the 200 fly, but I can tell you this, If I don't do another one for 25 years that will be okay

Thanks to everyone for all of your help. I swam in the meet today, and it was an absolute blast.

I showed up with my spare towel, spare contacts, etc. All thought of pacing by the clock or by the coach's feedback was completely abandoned once I was in oxygen debt. Sandbagging wasn't an issue anywhere except in the 1000 free. But I beat my seed time by 20 seconds and so I was just as guilty as everyone else. Pacing was fine everywhere but in the 200 breast, where I slowed badly but still managed to get 3rd overall and 1st in AG. (Okay, so it was only out of ten overall and three in my AG, but I'll take it.) I managed to beat the 85-year-old, and even the fast 69-year-old. The only goggle issue was in the 200 free, where I accidentally put them on upside down and they filled up with water. Bonus: I got to swim the 50 fly in a medley relay.

Kudos to trigirl125, a lurker on this thread who totally dominated her heat of the 200 free and I think placed well in all her events.

It was even more fun than I anticipated. Everyone should try a masters meet.

I'm so glad to hear that it went well, and that you had fun!

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Steve, it was nice to meet you today. You did really well in your events! Thanks for the kudos, even if I *was* in the slowest heats for all of my events and placed well by default. :-) Masters meets are definitely humbling, but fun just the same. Good luck with your training!