Hard basic schedule. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Repeat.

No LSD. No whining. Hard work.

"You learn to endure by enduring."

I think, like any good coach, his methods are evolving...

I saw him speak a couple years back. This is what I remember:
- build your standard week to a sustainable volume
- when you are comfortable with that volume, add plenty of tempo
- repeat, repeat, repeat
- race
- recover
- start cycle again (4 month cycle)

This is an over-simplification... but I don't think even his athletes could sum up his methodology in one post on ST.....

so quality as opposed to quantity?

LOL!

It's most definitely BOTH.

heh. damn. how much quantity tho?

As much as you can handle.... and maybe more than you thought you could handle!

Siri Lindley (former World Champion) is definitley one of Sutton's disciples, and coaches her group with much of his approach. We have been fortunate to home stay one of Siri's athletes the last 2 summers, and have had a close-up look at the training. It is clearly a combination of quality and quantity. The intensity is very, very high, and the workload is very heavy. It seems like everyone is always walking a fine line between super race-ready and injury or illness (which does seem to occur at a bit higher rate than normal); however, if you can stick to the program - and have the 100% unconditional belief in the system, they turn out some awesome results - Siri, Loretta Harrop, Susan Williams, many Aussies, Lauren Groves, Mirinda Carfrae ...

I think this must be where my coach gets his ideas from!

Fulla,

I have a PDF presentation from a training camp that he did in switzerland that covers many of his methods (with specific training sessions for his elite athletes - Jo King, Siri Lindley, Ben Sanson, etc.

I haven't looked at it in a while. Thanks for the reminder. Pretty cool stuff.

Drop me an email at trigeek@triathlontrainingsurvey.net if you want me to send you a copy.

Cheers,

Alan

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trigeek76@triathlontrainingsurvey.net
http://www.triathlontrainingsurvey.net
Fill out my training survey to receive a copy of how Slowtwitchers really train

I'm not so sure that he omits "LSD"... I heard that he had Jo King doing 10 hour rides on the trainer. Yes, that's not a typo, its a Ten. Not sure of the intensity on that, but it definitely qualifies as long.

That's so fucked up it's awesome.

-C

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Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.

He's also broken more than a few good athletes as well...........

You have to wonder about how many potentially awesome athletes are thrown away, though.

I have talked with a girl who trained with him and I suspect the the ones who "survive and prosper" are way outnumbered by those that are left by the wayside.

It works if you can survive it......

G

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It's a little like wrestling a gorilla.........you don't stop when you're tired.........you stop when the gorilla is tired.

recover!? LOL! Would one consider running the day after ironman as "recovery"!?

it's also not uncommon to run a marathon on the treadmill. ICK!

i used marc becker @ ironguides.net last year for ironman lake placid. marc is brett's protege and his company is partnered with brett's (www.excaliburtraining.com)

yes, it's train and repeat.
no whining. no quitting. no stopping.
big emphasis on menta toughness
fatigue is the point.
no days off unless needed - but even then, test drive the body before you decide that you need it.
etc

it was a very difficult and challenging 9 months but i also had some of my best placings ever. i would find it hard to believe that age group triathletes with full-time jobs nad family (like myself) would be able to continue very long on that regiment.

From what I've seen and a few folks that I've talked with...some of the coaches out there who work with pros will take a portion of the prize money in an effort to reduce the actual coaching fees.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

I have never seen coaching fees that included "20% of prize money."

I should look into using him, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't cost me a penny.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

More is MORE.

Hey guys & gals,

For those who emailed me asking for a copy of the notes from Brett's presentation,

I just wanted to let you know that I'm not ignoring you.

My in-box is Chocka's

I will have them out to you by this afternoon, or this avo for those fellow Aussies out there :-)

Cheers,

Alan

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trigeek76@triathlontrainingsurvey.net
http://www.triathlontrainingsurvey.net
Fill out my training survey to receive a copy of how Slowtwitchers really train

I spent a bit of time working with Marc, too. I only stopped because I am utterly incapable of following a structured schedule, and his advice was being wasted on me.

But, I loved the simplicity of the approach. I sent video of me swimming. Marc reviewed it with Brett and the feedback was: "The technique is close enough -- you need to develop power. Swim harder." Kinda cuts to the chase, eh?

Similar simplicity throughout the program. Threshold run day: 15min EZ; 15min Med.; 15min Hard; 15min EZ. How are those defined? Just go do it and you'll know when you've got it figured out. Don't overthink it. I tossed out the HR monitor and figured it out.

Even though my training nowadays is highly unorganized, I still think of my basic approach in terms of these simple blocks that are repeated. The speed and power will go up and down, but my basic workout descriptions don't change a whole lot throughout the year.

yeah, it's simple alright. train your ass off today and do it again tomorrow.

we had many similar conversations to the one you referenced. like the 5 consecutive weeks he told me to run my long run faster. every week i'd tell him the times and he'd reply, "run faster." no hr monitor. no zones. just run faster. i did.

Yeah, it's amazing what a little simplicity will do. My coach (Mike Plumb) also employs a pretty simply approach. Some runs include things such as 8x{2:00 hard/1:00 easy}. Pretty straight forward. I do train with a HRM and a power meter, because I do belive those metrics to be useful, as long as you don't get lost in them. It seems to me that there are too many programs that include things such as: 20 minutes at 85% FTP, followed by 5 at 50%, then...

-Colin

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Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.

"Don't overthink it"

Amen, Rick.

Way to much of this going on here recently about training - just get out there, have some fun and put in the time.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Funny enough -- I also worked with Mike! I've tried a few coaches and I finally had to admit -- it's not the coach that isn't working, it's me.
I'm not a very good coaching client because I have trouble sticking to a program.

But, Mike is wise and very straightforward. He had me do something like 4 simple steady 6-mile runs for a few weeks. I sorta griped about it, thinking I need some sort of fancy structure to each run (I had read all the Dave Scott stuff). Mike just said, "Are those four 6-milers still making you tired?" I said, "Heck yeah, but..." Naturally, he just smiled back at me and I got the message.

One more Mike Plumb anecdote:

Right when I first met him and started working, we were both at a tri club sprint race. After the race (which Mike won), I mentioned to him that I "hadn't gone too hard; just wanted to get in a good workout."

He got a grim look on his face, furrowed his brow and said, "So...what's that all about, huh?"

I gulped and got the message.

Classic!

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Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.

It seems like everyone is always walking a fine line between super race-ready and injury or illness

Well, as Gleveq said, you have to wonder about how many fell off the wayside and burnt out. Not too many of his athletes competing on the level of Michellie Jones for that long.

Anyway, I can't imagine for your joe age grouper that this approach would result in anything else but injury or illness over the long run. To some extent, I prefer the Maffetone thing about never putting "fitness" ahead of "health". Something along the lines of the fitness will follow if you are healthy. Nothing worse than the fit injured guy who cannot make it to the start line!

Time will tell if Rebecca Preston will be one of those comes back or falls by the wayside given her withdrawl from Kona due to fatigue

She seems to be totally overdoing it...

Sutton's methods?

More is better; ALWAYS. Basically train till you're injured. And I am not kidding on that. There isn't much too it other than looking at what other people have done (single sport coaches) and trying to apply that to triathlon. It is fairly foolish really, and has totally broken the majority of his athletes. His methods are the reason Siri retired before the Olympics, she was to beat down to keep going.

So:

Train as much and as often and as fast as you can on a day to day basis, and hide out in Switzerland to avoid pedophile charges.

J

Not wanting to go into that side of things, but the paedophile charges were done and sorted years ago. He came back and faced court,with a guilty plea. Whether the girl involved is happy with the outcome, I doubt it.

Sutton keeps it real simple it seems.

Some of the locals here are coached by one of his former athletes (ITU racer). Before the recent LC worlds they were training up to ~15 hrs over Sat/Sun and did sessions up to 40x400 on the track (during the week) on 2min starts (hold <1:30, the faster the better)!!!

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Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy- Sir Isaac Newton.

My wife was coached by Siri for a bit (until a non-tri related arm injury forced her running-only), and I assume the methods are fairly similar. Here is what I noticed.

The term "quality" here warrants some discussion. As noted by others, there is plenty of quality in the program, but it takes the form of high end steady state/threshold/tempo type of efforts and not balls-to-the-wall barf o' rama types of track sessions. The balls to the wall session defeats the purpose of the sutton program, because you should be tired from the workout but not so sore that you can't back things up the following day. So yes, there is both quality and quantity, but the program strives to do this in the context of training for events that last >2 hours long. There are plenty of "quality" oriented programs out there that train triathletes like they are running the 3k. The "quality" in the sutton program comes from doing somewhat but not overly challenging workouts in a semi-fatigued state to create a callousing effect and an overall resistance to fatigue.

yeah definitely impression i got from the handout trigeek has. he sounds like my old aussie swim coach.

If you are interested in the roots of this approach, read "The Self-Made Olympian" (Ron Daws, 1971) - which also happens, in my opinion, to be one of the best training books ever written.

Note: Daws was in turn heavily influenced by famed coach Arthur Lydiard - who trained all of his charges, even 800-1500 meter olympic gold medallist Peter Snell, by the same method. His basic method (from memory): First phase: Attain high volume (usually around 100 miles/week); Second (and longest phase): continue high volume, running 80% or so of it at AT pace; Third phase: six-week "power phase", reducing volume, but adding three very hard "hill-bounding" workouts each week; Fourth phase (also six weeks): keep reduced volume, but substitute very fast shorter repeats for the hill workouts; Fifth phase: Race. He probably lost a lot of athletes along the way, but he sure had a rather remarkable set of champions.]

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Lew

I *think* (I haven't met the man) that Brett is interested in helping people become champions. Only a tiny fraction of AG racers really have that as a goal, other than merely daydreaming about it. It's a bit of a deal with the devil -- I'll give you the best chance to wring every possible ounce of potential out of your body. In return, you have to be willing to destroy yourself. Sutton's not the first and won't be the last to offer that bargain. Plenty of athletes are willing to accept.

That said, there is nothing about the training that is not suited for an AG racer. The philosophy and approach are sound. An amateur weekend warrior just needs to know when to limit the training dose so he can get up in the morning and go to work and ride his mountain bike with his mates now and then.

He sure did...if only NZ was that good at running still.

What the heck happened to NZ's strength in running? the kenyans? heh

I was coached by Siri this last year and it is a lot of Sutto's stuff....IT_GETS_YOU_FIT_PERIOD! If it doesn't kill you.

BTW - The track session mentioned of 40x400 is 50x400 and you switch directions every 5. Great stuff tho!

Blake

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Professional Triathlete
Owner of Blake Becker Multisport Coaching LLC / Team BBMC
blakebeck@gmail.com
http://www.teambbmc.com

Almost as good as 60x400 on a dirt loop ;)

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Team Timex 2014
@ajhodges