In support of Normann Stadler....

Oct 27, 06 12:39

Post #1 of 46 Views: 3856

I read the stories and the threads.

Stadler is a champion. What's more, he is the champion this sport and Ironman need.

Here is why:

Stadler is not a political PR man. He is an athlete, now a champion athlete. Stadler has been through the ringer. He was critisized by people in press before the race, had bad luck in last year's race. I for one think he would have won last year too had it not been for the flat.

People are upset because of what Stadler said in the Triathlete magazine website about Macca drafting? Good. They should be. Stadler is likely right. If he is wrong, he speaks to what was an emerging tendency of athletes at the highest level to reduce Kona to a silly card game of brinkmanship and tactics on the bike. That sucked. I wanted to see a race. Not some stupid and indecipherable game of wits on the bike that we are not privy too.

I say, thank you Normann Stadler for making it a race.

You say Stadler is arrogant? A prima-donna? I say he isn't having met him once for a short time, but if he is, fine.

I remember a man named Bernard Hinault who was France's last great Tour de France hero. I remember he was brave, opinionated and brash. One commentator, Sam Posey, said (and I can remember it like yesterday), "Hinault was rude and made enemy's easily..." There is an incindiary quality to some champions and I think we have that in Stadler.

Some champions whine. Some champions deal in "what ifs". Some champions deal in graceful philosophies.

Stadler dealt in watts and power and heart rate and pain.

I wanted a race and I got a race. Stadler destroyed the guys behind him, great athletes too. He was courageous enough to attack hard on the bike and hang on during the run. He didn't succumb even though Macca really mounted an incredible run campaign.

Let me ask you guys- who remembers a race this exciting? It's been a while. A long while.

I for one am glad Normann Stadler gave us back classic Ironman racing. We have a worthy and respectable champion, and I'm thankful for it. I also can't wait for the showdown at high noon next year. That will be a gun fight.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 12:42

Post #2 of 46 Views: 3813

tom,

thanks, i think this was needed and i agree with you. and if what he said does bother people, i think they need to take a step back and look at the stuff we say about each othe on here everyday. he is just a person like us.

____________________________________________________________
Link to my photography
http://davidsavoiephotography.blogspot.com/
http://davidsavoiesports.blogspot.com/

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 12:45

Post #3 of 46 Views: 3784

People have said the same thing about Tiger Woods throwing his clubs, Jerry Rice saying he wasn't getting the ball enough, Michael Jordan, Lance, etc. I am not saying Norman is in these guys category, but champions tend not always to be the most well liked individuals, particularly on the male side of things.

Portside Athletics Blog

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 12:47

Post #4 of 46 Views: 3753

Bottom line is both Stadler and Macca are bad asses. I really can't imaigine Macca was drafting when there are marshalls scrutinizing these guys every move. He may have "legally drafted" per the pro 7m rule and I think that's what pisses Norman off---and I can see that point of view clearly.

http://www.mountainmettle.com

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Spindogg] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 12:51

Post #5 of 46 Views: 3717

"He may have "legally drafted" per the pro 7m rule and I think that's what pisses Norman off---and I can see that point of view clearly."

Me too.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 12:52

Post #6 of 46 Views: 3696

Gee Tom, you're really at it today! first the film review now this-maybe you should give up your day job. Such passion-yipppeee!

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 12:53

Post #7 of 46 Views: 3687

How can one be upset if a person follows the rules? Again, if he doesnt like the rules, point the finger where it belongs.

Dave

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 12:53

Post #8 of 46 Views: 3681

I have to admit, I am pretty neutral on this subject. I really don't care either way, but I do miss the days of the gracious champion. The guy who comes, does his job well and is humble in victory. There don't seem to be too many of those anymore.

Mark

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Spindogg] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 12:55

Post #9 of 46 Views: 3666

>>Bottom line is both Stadler and Macca are bad asses.<<

Yeah! Love 'em both.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [ironclm] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:02

Post #10 of 46 Views: 3632

I'd sleep with Macca over Normann.

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Kestrelkerri] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:03

Post #11 of 46 Views: 3618

Well, that settles it then! :)

Poor Normann.... It really is all about the accent.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Kestrelkerri] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:04

Post #12 of 46 Views: 3601

Do you know something that really sets them apart? :o)

Dave

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:04

Post #13 of 46 Views: 3590

Tom:

I typically like your posts, but in my opinion, this one makes no sense. You don't get a pass for being an asshole just because you won, and in this respect, Stadler was an asshole. He may be a really nice guy most of the time, but he played this one poorly (unless for whatever reason, it was his intention to be a jerk).

FWIW, Macca's response was just as bad.

The whole thing smacks of poor sportsmanship. If Normann has a problem with the rules, he should treat it as such, not attack others for following the rules.

-------------------------------------
Steve Perkins

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [steveperx] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:08

Post #14 of 46 Views: 3556

You don't get a pass for being an asshole just because you won, and in this respect, Stadler was an asshole.

There's no Ms. Congeniality prize in IM. So he expressed an opinion that's not all hearts and flowers. I don't think that makes him a-hole or that he shouls be compared to T.O. (as some here have). He''s an emotional guy and it came out. Better that than a non personality robot.

---------------------------------------
Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Spindogg] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:13

Post #15 of 46 Views: 3528

"He may have "legally drafted" per the pro 7m rule and I think that's what pisses Norman off---and I can see that point of view clearly. "

As you say - Macca didn't break any rules, so why did Stadler mouth off and accuse him of doing so.

Also with Stadler way out in front on the bike how did he know what anybody else was doing. Was he getting out of the aero postion and looking over his shoulder constantly. I don't think so.

Stadler won the race and congratulations to him, but he still seems like a guy who is lacking in some of the basics.

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [KEJ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:13

Post #16 of 46 Views: 3519

As I said. He may not be an asshole all the time... or even a significant portion of the time. It's about class and grace, of which he showed none at this particular time. I wouldn't compare him to T.O. or even to Hinault. All I'm saying is that he showed a distinct lack of class in making those statements. It doesn't take way from his win or the fact that he's the champion. It's just unfortunate that he would choose to air his dislike of the rules in a manner that disparaged another competitor.

-------------------------------------
Steve Perkins

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:20

Post #17 of 46 Views: 3475

In Reply To:

I read the stories and the threads.

Stadler is a champion. What's more, he is the champion this sport and Ironman need.

Stadler dealt in watts and power and heart rate and pain.

I wanted a race and I got a race. Stadler destroyed the guys behind him, great athletes too. He was courageous enough to attack hard on the bike and hang on during the run. He didn't succumb even though Macca really mounted an incredible run campaign.

Let me ask you guys- who remembers a race this exciting? It's been a while. A long while.

I for one am glad Normann Stadler gave us back classic Ironman racing. We have a worthy and respectable champion, and I'm thankful for it. I also can't wait for the showdown at high noon next year. That will be a gun fight.

A race this exciting? The last three years!

Winning off the bike. Used to be, wait for the run. Sit in and wait.

Macca races the tactical and boring BS way. Sit in and wait. Save energy. Like Reid and Deboom would do.

Macca slams the "Germans". Well, I like their style. They put their noses into the wind and put the hammer down! They have always raced that way. First Dietrich, then Zaeck and Hellriegel, now Faris and Norman(Lothar seemed to play the sit-in and wait game). And this style of all or nothing have given the Germans the title the last three years.

It works because these guys show up with the complete game. Witness how Stadler improved his swimming and did the work in training to be able to run 6:40 pace even after his epic ride!

Is Macca the guy who said he was going win about 6 titles? I don't see him winning just one.

Conrad

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [steveperx] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:24

Post #18 of 46 Views: 3437

It's about class and grace

I thought it was about swimming, biking and running.

---------------------------------------
Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [KEJ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:31

Post #19 of 46 Views: 3391

An old-fashioned rivalry can be good for the sport. This will keep both Macca and Normann motivated during the off-season and keep the fans excited. Who is NOT going to tune in next year to see who wins the "grudge match?" (It's like the Red Sox and Yankees. Sometimes it's ugly, but it makes things more fun.)

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [KEJ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:33

Post #20 of 46 Views: 3365

It's about class and grace

I thought it was about swimming, biking and running.

Funny. I didn't know they were mutually exclusive.

I don't know why we're all so happy to forgive someone for his transgressions just because he (or she) won. As I continue to say, it doesn't take away from his performance on the course. He was unbelieveable. However, he clearly showed very poor sportsmanship on that day, which I find unfortunate, particularly in view of the fact that he felt the need to denigrate a fellow competitor who was racing within the rules.

-------------------------------------
Steve Perkins

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Kestrelkerri] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:35

Post #21 of 46 Views: 3342

In Reply To:

I'd sleep with Macca over Normann.

But you slept with Paulo, so that doesn't mean much. :-P

----------------------------------------------------
Striving to have sex more than 66 times per year

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [steveperx] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:36

Post #22 of 46 Views: 3335

I'm not sure that having an opinion that is not PC is all that horrible. Perhaps he shouldn't have said it publicly, but w/o being in his position and going through what he has, I don't feel the need to call him names. He won. Its not like he came in 2nd and said these things out of sour grapes.

---------------------------------------
Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [KEJ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:45

Post #23 of 46 Views: 3282

I'm not sure that having an opinion that is not PC is all that horrible. Perhaps he shouldn't have said it publicly, but w/o being in his position and going through what he has, I don't feel the need to call him names. He won. Its not like he came in 2nd and said these things out of sour grapes.

I don't think I said anything about being PC. I'm just wondering why he would feel the need to call Macca a cheater. It was a very un-sportsmanlike thing to do. IMO, he was being a jerk. If he has a beef with the rules, then fine. Take it up with the officials, the organizers or the fedration that makes the rules. But you don't accuse fellow comptetiors of cheating when they're following the rules just because you disagree with the rules.

If he wanted to be provocative or to get his point across very bluntly, then fine. All that means is that he had a reason for being a jerk about it. He was still a jerk.

-------------------------------------
Steve Perkins

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Kestrelkerri] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:48

Post #24 of 46 Views: 3271

I'd sleep with Macca over Normann.

I woulda thought they'd like you in between, but whatever.

_________
kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 13:58

Post #25 of 46 Views: 3211

Great to hear your opinion. I like Norman. I like Macca. I LOVED the race. But, both made comments that were uncalled for. Macca was NOT drafting. The reason I can say that since I was not there is that he played by the rules (smartly I might add) with the officials right there. He was not called. End of discussion. In all other sports, complaining about the "officiating" will get you killed everytime. This is sure to make a great race next year that we all will be watching closely for sure. I know who I will be "rooting for"

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [rroof] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 14:01

Post #26 of 46 Views: 2398

Agreed My Friend, and now we have a classic battle ready to go. It's a grudge match at this point.

It is a year to go, and I can't wait for the race. This last one was a great one, and the next will be a great one.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [steveperx] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 14:13

Post #27 of 46 Views: 2376

I just want to ask this as a hypothetical:

Is it possible, in this day and age, to be a truly dominant champion in a sport like cycling or ironman without being at least a bit of an a*hole?

Not trying to be inflamatory and I'm sure there are lots of examples you can come up with to shoot the theory down but the requirements are:

- whatever your genetics you've got to dedicate yourself to the sport to the exclusion of friends, family and a normal life (if not all the time than a big chunk of it);

- you must believe inherenently that you have a shot of being the best before your results or training justify it or why would you bother?; and

- in cycling at least you've got to be able to live with the role of team leader with no qualms at all - you have to think it entirely natural that talented riders would burn the best years of their life to help you achieve your goals,

my question is therefore whether it's unrealistic to expect the winners of IMH or TdF to be balanced likeable individuals - surely self-obsessed loners with a grudge against the world (and I am NOT speaking about anyone in particular here) are more likely to be successful?

"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [luckyleese] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 14:16

Post #28 of 46 Views: 2371

"in this day and age"

Did the change-over happen in the last year? I don't remember Faris doing anything of the sort last year...

Or maybe he's just the exception to the rule.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 14:18

Post #29 of 46 Views: 2362

I'm still confused as to how Stadler could see Macca drafting during the race. Macca was 10 minutes behind him on the bike. That is 3-4 miles behind Stalder.

So I guess Stadler must have superhero eyes in the back of his head (like none of us) to see Macca drafting. Amazing!

http://iron-boom.blogspot.com

Last edited by: ironboom: Oct 27, 06 14:18

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [luckyleese] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 14:34

Post #30 of 46 Views: 2342

I don't dispute what you're saying, but I think it's a sad commentary on the state of sportsmanship these days. I still don't understand why Stadler felt he had to publicly say anything at all about Macca.

-------------------------------------
Steve Perkins

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [rroof] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 14:37

Post #31 of 46 Views: 2336

Normann and Sarah were my next room neighbors in Kona. We shared a balcony and saw each other every day at the hotel, the elevator, Lava Java...pretty much everywhere. They were nice and gracious it seemed to everyone. Normann was always congenial, getting pix taken with fans at Lava Java, Sarah was patient, and always had a smile that reached her eyes. ( By the way, she is white hot smokin' good looking. But I digress. )

After the race he thanked us for our good luck wishes. I think that his comments about Macca and the race may lose a little in translation. I think if you watch the video of his acceptance speech you can tell he's not a blowhard and was not trying to be contentious. At one point he thanked his saddle sponsor and said, well, he didn't spend much time on the bike. :) I thought that was funny, not egotistical, but he was obviously proud of his results. And he said he swam with Faris, another compliment. In fact he complimented everyone at some point, not gratuitously or disingenuously, just kind of naturally. My take is that, to the extent that a guy who threw down the way he did to win his 2nd Kona- pretty humble.

I did notice that the Aussies tended to stay together and I wondered whether there was some ill will toward the Germans- just wondering. Macca did say that the Germans need to pay closer attention to the sport or something like that. When did this become about nationalities? I think Macca is a huge competitor and a major talent, but maybe if he saved the editorializing, his anger could be channeled more positively and it would manifest itself on the course as Normann's apparently did (ref: P Reid's remarks). I dunno. These guys are different, and I mean that in a good way. Very similar to the elite in many fields. I am willing to bet that the real relationship between Stadler and Macca is much different and better and respectful than what we, the adoring masses like to believe.

Also, it wouldn't be the first time that these little dust ups were fabricated to create a buzz around the sport. Ford and the other sponsors wouldn't mind a bit.....Hmmmmmmmm?

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [clydetime] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 14:40

Post #32 of 46 Views: 2320

Normann's girlfriend is beyond white hot smokin'.

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Blockhead] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 14:44

Post #33 of 46 Views: 2306

...Another reason to admire him.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 14:45

Post #34 of 46 Views: 2304

I think you're wrong, Tom. Sometimes it's best to shut one's trap. That probably includes us....so...signing off now on the topic...

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [luckyleese] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 14:48

Post #35 of 46 Views: 2294

"in this day and age"

Perhaps the problem is that people in the news are victims of the mass media. The only thing we (those that weren't there) have to go on is what what hear/read.

It's quite possible that Stadler was taken out of context, but who knows.

But given the fact that the media can make or break anybody, perhaps the wiser man might be a bit more cautious regarding what he says about others.

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [luckyleese] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 14:52

Post #36 of 46 Views: 2283

In Reply To:

Is it possible, in this day and age, to be a truly dominant champion in a sport like cycling or ironman without being at least a bit of an a*hole?

Pete Sampras Concerning Stadler; I enjoyed his "take it to them" race strategy too. The little I've read makes it look like he's an arrogant ahole, but so was Lance, and I supported and liked him as a racer. OTOH, Stadler says he leaves tri outside when he gets to his front door, so maybe this is just his game face.

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 14:59

Post #37 of 46 Views: 2270

It will be interesting to see how his sponsors react(if at all) to his dropping the f bomb, and his other comments. Every pot needs an occasional stirring. I have big respect because he won the race again. I think if people are looking to him, or any other professional athlete to be some kind of role model they're looking in the wrong places.

If he was trying to draw attention to the 7m draft rule I'd say he succeeded.

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 15:00

Post #38 of 46 Views: 2266

One thing many of these guys have in common is that they are impolitic. The just say stuff and figure they'll survive, like going balls out on the bike and worrying about the run later. A bit reckless, but they're only human and they are only words. I'll bet Peter Ried has congratulated Stadler and they're cool. Or maybe that's just what I want to believe. Sort of refreshing in a country where the stars all have media handlers and prepared remarks.

What I know for sure is that Normann's girlfriend is entirely way too fine. Not up for debate.

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 15:04

Post #39 of 46 Views: 2259

"How can one be upset if a person follows the rules? Again, if he doesnt like the rules, point the finger where it belongs"

For the most pasrt I agree with what Tom wrote. Norman Stadler put on a brave and courageous effort at IMH playing his trump card( a blazing bike split) to it's absolute fullest and he won. On that day, the best man won. However, you are right, if Stadler has problems with what the other guys are doing, and they are doing that legally, then he should be directing any criticism to the rules themselves not other athletes who were playing by the rules.

Fleck

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 15:06

Post #40 of 46 Views: 2258

"Let me ask you guys- who remembers a race this exciting? It's been a while. A long while."

Last year.

----------
Fortitudine Vincimus

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 15:25

Post #41 of 46 Views: 2238

Faris

~~~

- Matt

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [clydetime] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 15:35

Post #42 of 46 Views: 2228

"Normann's girlfriend is entirely way too fine. Not up for debate."

You know the #1 ST rule. Unless there is a picture it doesn't exist.:-)

Anyone?

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Badger] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 15:55

Post #43 of 46 Views: 2206

I think if people are looking to him, or any other professional athlete to be some kind of role model they're looking in the wrong places.

Truer words have never been spoken. The fact that they are capable of performing an athletic endeavour at a level most of us can only dream about does not make them, nor does it behold them to be, paragons of virtue. They are humans who have been fortunate to be blessed with certain gifts. NO different than those fortunate to be born into rich families, or born with extreme intelligence. While it is nice to see that people behave decently, the fact one is blessed with one of these gifts does not require them to do so.

I have long held the belief that, unless you can say you would honestly care about what a person says/does were they not a professional athlete, then that shouldn't matter. Put another way, if you wouldn't care about someone if they weren't a baseball player, then you should only limit your expectations to what he does on the field.

"I can endure more pain than anyone you've ever met. That's why I can beat anyone I've ever met." Steve Prefontaine, Without Limits

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 16:18

Post #44 of 46 Views: 2180

here you go.

http://www.multisports.com/newspics/resize-Norman&SaraPier.jpg

but isn't it just all about me in the end?? [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 16:26

Post #45 of 46 Views: 2167

In Reply To:

I'll bet Peter Ried has congratulated Stadler and they're cool.

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

Re: In support of Normann Stadler.... [Kestrelkerri] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 06 16:31

Post #46 of 46 Views: 2157

It's the teeth right? Macca has better teeth than Norman. Gotta be the teeth.

I think that Norman just speaks what's on his mind - right or wrong. He was pretty vocal a couple of years ago about Nina Kraft and her EPO findings. He gets criticized about his running before and now after Hawaii, yet his marathon time looked pretty good to me. It can go both ways and I think Macca is using it to fuel his fire. Pros have to have an ego and pride or they won't succeed.

John
"A profoundly peaceful run; a gift to myself" Frazz

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.