clint, thank you for a reasoned and civil response. may i take issue with a couple of your points?
"Civility is the privilege of those in power."
when i look at the coverage of what's going on in baltimore i see looters, and i see leaders of the black community decrying the looters and exhorting peace and respect for the law from their constituency. i don't see the baltimore's black leadership standing mum, in tacit solidarity with the looters. i don't see a history of incivility from those successful at speaking truth to power.
i think it takes a special pair of glasses to think the incivility on this issue is symmetrical. i don't mind - i welcome - the views of TriEqual's founders and leaders. this is worth talking about. i spent 10 years doing what you do (being a husband to a top female pro). i've fought that fight, and i'm very sympathetic to the issue of start times because of the pressures on pro women in a race like ironman that male AGers not only don't see, don't understand, but often cause.
i've been invited to interview your talented and accomplished wife, and i'm eager to do that. one question i absolutely will have is why the TriEqual leadership - herself included - has said or written nothing (that i have read) to tamp down the vicious language coming from those who align themselves with TriEqual. i'm absolutely going to ask that question.
your wife, sara gross, writes: "If Ironman was an American University, the current inequality of opportunity for the professional women would not only be wrong, it would also be illegal."
here are the Title IX tests, to see if an institution is in conformity with the law:
"Compliance can be assessed in any one of three ways:
so, if sara holds up Title IX as a template for ironman's behavior, ironman is behaving right now in absolute symmetry with how Title IX works.
all that said, i agree with your wife and the other TriEqual leaders that there should be equal numbers of men and women on the pier, but not because of equality or justice. i was offended, am offended, and will continue to be offended by those who say or insinuate that adhering to Title IX's proportional representation model is sexist. i think proportional representation is a defensible vision for equity. TriEqual's leadership holds to another interpretation of equity, and i would be equally irate if they were called names by those who just don't have the imagination to see, and sympathize with, this other expression of equity (even if they don't agree with it).
your wife not only understands the argument for proportional representation (to her credit), she apparently does not feel it violates the spirit of equity, because i think she agrees that it's the appropriate way for AG women, older men and women, and any other cohort to gain their slots on the pier. but i can't say for certain whether she believes this, because none of the TriEqual leadership will address the question. instead, you and they say that it's not a proper question to ask. i think it is. you write that censorship is deplorable and you're right. the cure for censorship is transparency and i don't see why transparency on this question is a bad thing. if you're not afraid of the answer, then i'd like to hear the answer. the more TriEqual's leadership digs its heels in and refuses to answer, the more i wonder why.
the reason i think it makes sense for male and female pros to be equally represented on the pier is because kona is a WC. but this causes a lot of people to wonder what the proper number of slots ought to be for a WC. this is another discussion the TriEqual leadership just will not have. it's like "control the border first, only then will we talk about the treatment of undocumented workers." no. i think we ought to talk about all of it. i think we ought to have a discussion where the TriEqual leadership doesn't foreclose on what i think are pretty legitimate questions. i don't think it ought to be: give us 15 slots, and only then will we entertain your questions.
i have a lot of respect for sara. she's done more to raise the profile and power of pro athletes than any athlete in the history of ironman racing. she, and rachel, have shown more balls than any male pro triathlete, ever, when it comes to putting herself on the firing line for athletes rights. but then this is the history of pro triathlon. the women have the balls. erin baker and sue latshaw quit racing ironman - vocally - because of the swim start in kona, the subject of yesterday's TriEqual press release. because we have these ladies who are so courageous, so eloquent, so accomplished i don't want to short-sell them by treating them the way i frankly have seen pro triathletes treated since the inception of the sport: like fragile adolescents who can't be questioned overhard. your wife has way too much moxy for that, and that's why i'm asking for a grown-up discussion. your wife actually is a grown-up. i am just so impressed with her. you did good to latch onto that ;-)
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
"Civility is the privilege of those in power."
when i look at the coverage of what's going on in baltimore i see looters, and i see leaders of the black community decrying the looters and exhorting peace and respect for the law from their constituency. i don't see the baltimore's black leadership standing mum, in tacit solidarity with the looters. i don't see a history of incivility from those successful at speaking truth to power.
i think it takes a special pair of glasses to think the incivility on this issue is symmetrical. i don't mind - i welcome - the views of TriEqual's founders and leaders. this is worth talking about. i spent 10 years doing what you do (being a husband to a top female pro). i've fought that fight, and i'm very sympathetic to the issue of start times because of the pressures on pro women in a race like ironman that male AGers not only don't see, don't understand, but often cause.
i've been invited to interview your talented and accomplished wife, and i'm eager to do that. one question i absolutely will have is why the TriEqual leadership - herself included - has said or written nothing (that i have read) to tamp down the vicious language coming from those who align themselves with TriEqual. i'm absolutely going to ask that question.
your wife, sara gross, writes: "If Ironman was an American University, the current inequality of opportunity for the professional women would not only be wrong, it would also be illegal."
here are the Title IX tests, to see if an institution is in conformity with the law:
"Compliance can be assessed in any one of three ways:
- Providing athletic participation opportunities that are substantially proportionate to the student enrollment. This prong of the test is satisfied when participation opportunities for men and women are "substantially proportionate" to their respective undergraduate enrollment.
- Demonstrating a continual expansion of athletic opportunities for the underrepresented sex. This prong of the test is satisfied when an institution has a history and continuing practice of program expansion that is responsive to the developing interests and abilities of the underrepresented sex (typically female).
- Accommodating the interest and ability of underrepresented sex. This prong of the test is satisfied when an institution is meeting the interests and abilities of its female students even where there are disproportionately fewer females than males participating in sports."
so, if sara holds up Title IX as a template for ironman's behavior, ironman is behaving right now in absolute symmetry with how Title IX works.
all that said, i agree with your wife and the other TriEqual leaders that there should be equal numbers of men and women on the pier, but not because of equality or justice. i was offended, am offended, and will continue to be offended by those who say or insinuate that adhering to Title IX's proportional representation model is sexist. i think proportional representation is a defensible vision for equity. TriEqual's leadership holds to another interpretation of equity, and i would be equally irate if they were called names by those who just don't have the imagination to see, and sympathize with, this other expression of equity (even if they don't agree with it).
your wife not only understands the argument for proportional representation (to her credit), she apparently does not feel it violates the spirit of equity, because i think she agrees that it's the appropriate way for AG women, older men and women, and any other cohort to gain their slots on the pier. but i can't say for certain whether she believes this, because none of the TriEqual leadership will address the question. instead, you and they say that it's not a proper question to ask. i think it is. you write that censorship is deplorable and you're right. the cure for censorship is transparency and i don't see why transparency on this question is a bad thing. if you're not afraid of the answer, then i'd like to hear the answer. the more TriEqual's leadership digs its heels in and refuses to answer, the more i wonder why.
the reason i think it makes sense for male and female pros to be equally represented on the pier is because kona is a WC. but this causes a lot of people to wonder what the proper number of slots ought to be for a WC. this is another discussion the TriEqual leadership just will not have. it's like "control the border first, only then will we talk about the treatment of undocumented workers." no. i think we ought to talk about all of it. i think we ought to have a discussion where the TriEqual leadership doesn't foreclose on what i think are pretty legitimate questions. i don't think it ought to be: give us 15 slots, and only then will we entertain your questions.
i have a lot of respect for sara. she's done more to raise the profile and power of pro athletes than any athlete in the history of ironman racing. she, and rachel, have shown more balls than any male pro triathlete, ever, when it comes to putting herself on the firing line for athletes rights. but then this is the history of pro triathlon. the women have the balls. erin baker and sue latshaw quit racing ironman - vocally - because of the swim start in kona, the subject of yesterday's TriEqual press release. because we have these ladies who are so courageous, so eloquent, so accomplished i don't want to short-sell them by treating them the way i frankly have seen pro triathletes treated since the inception of the sport: like fragile adolescents who can't be questioned overhard. your wife has way too much moxy for that, and that's why i'm asking for a grown-up discussion. your wife actually is a grown-up. i am just so impressed with her. you did good to latch onto that ;-)
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman