Where are you located? How many participants are you looking for or does that matter? Is Scwhag important? Is non-WTC the only criteria?

Pesonally, some day I would like to do this race http://www.elbaman.it/default.asp

Do the RD a favor...dont call a non-WTC race "Ironman"...call it long course iron distance or anything but Ironman.

WTC is hell bent on, and does a superior job of protecting their trademarked Ironman name. They do so by having their lawyers send nasty letters to the indi RD's.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Rev3 puts on what I am told is a quality full distance at their Ceder Point race, typically scheduled in late September. See: http://www.rev3tri.com/...rPointComingSoon.htm for more details.

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Slow ... it is how I roll

There is no such thing as a "non-WTC Ironman event".

Ironman is a trademark owned by WTC.

There are triathlon events of a similar or identical distance, but they are not Ironmans.

Two words: Brand identification.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I've posted a list on my blog here: http://enduroblog.com/...tra-distance-events/

It isn't purely iron-distance events, or even triathlons for that matter. It's a short list, so I hope I'm missing some. For now, it only includes North American events.

Victor

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blog
twitter

Tom are you the guy when a non tri friend asks "Wow did you do B2B Ironman" (for instance), you go into a whole 4 min speech on why its not an "ironman" and what the proper term is called?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Silverman...big time!

I haven't done the Great Floridian but the half iron-distance called the Great Florida Challenge. At the time both were the same weekend. It was a well organized race with plenty of aid stations. The only moot point is that they don't have a lot of hoopla compared to a WTC event.

I just signed up to do Rev3 full at Cedar Point for next year (nice discount if you register before 11/30). I heard great things from people who volunteered this year and people who did other Rev3 races. I am very excited. I also was told from the same volunteer they open up Cedar Point a couple of nights before the race to athletes and volunteers. If that's still true, I've got about 17 roller coasters with my name on them :)

Usually its about 10 minutes and includes some protracted analogy about fake Rolexes and so forth....

;)

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

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Two words for you: perspective check.

He isn't wrong though.

You are correct but really to split hairs over this playing teacher is just silly. Unless you work for WTC or are subcontracted as an lawyer to represent them just answer the original question - we get the semantics involved.

As long as we're gonna debate semantics, I'd go so far as to agree that Tom is "correct" (factually), yet still "wrong" (philosophically, IMO).

Ah yes, so by the end of your conversation they have this puzzled look on their face and ask again, "so howd your B2B Ironman go"?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

semantically, lawyers are not subcontracted. they're either contracted or retained...;)

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Hilly Flats Racing

FAIL

http://surfironmanseries.com/

I use the term "irondistance race" in athlete conversations, so I am safe from legal prosecution. :-} In general conversations people have no idea the difference between "ironman" and "triathlon" or "marathon" and I don't really make a big deal about correcting them.

When people ask Joe how many ironman races he has done, he counts the non-brands along with the WTC races. I can't remember anyone asking him how many were only WTC events, even WTC staff.

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Support Crew
This information contained herein has been assembled for your assistance and convenience. It is believed to be reliable, however, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed. All opinions shown are subject to change without notice.

WTC advertises for different internships. Here's one of them, if you're looking to get a foot in the door:
Legal

• 
  Learn the importance of policing a company brand(s) and protecting it through trademark/service mark registrations worldwide.
• 
  Assist with monitoring and research of unauthorized third-party use of brand(s) on the web.
• 
  Be a part of the legal team’s daily duties including domain registration maintenance, docketing of information, drafting letters (and other documents) as needed, creating and/or maintaining data sheets containing work product or other information required to be charted to increase productivity.
  

You mean like herpes?

No Topper, not really "FAIL" at all. And here is why:

One of many valuable assets WTC owns, and was developed by athletes, volunteers and the originators of the genuine Ironman brand race is the Ironman brand or word. It has significant value. It is identifiable and a part of modern language.

So, when those 15 people lined up on the beach way back when on February 18, 1978 on the big island, and a Navy SEAL lost the race largely because he took a beer at an aid station late in the run instead of a Coke or water (he got 2nd, John Dunbar)- when that happened those people helped contribute to the start of something tangibly real with a specific name: Ironman.

That name has value and the value of that name has been tangibly bought and paid for. Want to be part of the Ironman name? the ethos? the lore? the vibe? Do Ironman.

Want to do an Ultra-Distance triathlon with a 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike and 26.2 mile run? There are many fine events. There is only one Ironman brand.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom, here is an interesting question, because if you want to bring up the "lore" and significant value of "Ironman", hasnt WTC basically devalued exactly the lore you describe of the real Ironman race. Because the "Ironman" you talk about seems to be cheapened by the "Ironman" that WTC brands out.


Edit: If you want to appreciate the value of the "true" Ironman, we should want WTC to get rid of this "Ironman" name and apply it to only the Hawaii race.

IM Lake Placid is no different than B2B other than it has an trademarked "Ironman" name to it. So to say that IM Lake Placid(or any other IM brand) has this great allure to the original IM race way back in the day seems to be a bit of a stretch. It's just legal terms, while it seems you seem to suggest that because it has an "Ironman" attached to it, it somehow allows you to feel a greater sense of closeness to the original race.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Huge.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

We'll see if it has been de-valued when they go to sell it. :) My bet is the value ($) goes up.

You said



I gave you a link to show there is:

FAIL x 2.