triscottMS wrote:

SSM fits this pattern. [/quote

Again, I concede that a same sex marriage is different from a traditional marriage in that either the penis or the vagina is missing from the SSM; therefore not all of the "intended parts" as you say, are there. Other than that, you haven't demonstrated that it fits any pattern at all.

triscottMS wrote:

If I figure out how to put that in a test tube I'll let you know.

I'm all a-quiver with anticipation.

---

''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

triscottMS wrote:

- Here are some facts. http://www.mastersofhealthcare.com/...s-and-womens-brains/
Do they "prove" this or that? Who knows? At this point I honestly think you're trying to "win" the argument (if that's possible) simply by me not providing you with adequate data in the form you want it in. The link above says that the brains of men and women are
different which means we do things different ways. If you still want proof that two different things are still the same then we'd better keep looking.

triscottMS wrote:

The following is from the Family Research Council. http://www.frc.org/...ll-previous-research Read it for yourself. Maybe it will be scientific enough. At any rate, it points to what I've been saying the entire time. Believe it or don't.

There are eight outcome variables where differences between the children of homosexual parents and married parents were not only present, and favorable to the married parents, but where these findings were statistically significant for both children of lesbian mothers and "gay" fathers and both with and without controls. While all the findings in the study are important, these are the strongest possible ones--virtually irrefutable. Compared with children raised by their married biological parents (IBF), children of homosexual parents (LM and GF):

• Are much more likely to have received welfare (IBF 17%; LM 69%; GF 57%)
• Have lower educational attainment
• Report less safety and security in their family of origin
• Report more ongoing "negative impact" from their family of origin
• Are more likely to suffer from depression
• Have been arrested more often
• If they are female, have had more sexual partners--both male and female

The high mathematical standard of "statistical significance" was more difficult to reach for the children of "gay fathers" in this study because there were fewer of them. The following, however, are some additional areas in which the children of lesbian mothers (who represented 71% of all the children with homosexual parents in this study) differed from the IBF children, in ways that were statistically significant in both a direct comparison and with controls. Children of lesbian mothers:

• Are more likely to be currently cohabiting
• Are almost 4 times more likely to be currently on public assistance
• Are less likely to be currently employed full-time
• Are more than 3 times more likely to be unemployed
• Are nearly 4 times more likely to identify as something other than entirely heterosexual
• Are 3 times as likely to have had an affair while married or cohabiting
• Are an astonishing 10 times more likely to have been "touched sexually by a parent or other adult caregiver."
• Are nearly 4 times as likely to have been "physically forced" to have sex against their will
• Are more likely to have "attachment" problems related to the ability to depend on others
• Use marijuana more frequently
• Smoke more frequently
• Watch TV for long periods more frequently
• Have more often pled guilty to a non-minor offense

Still not picking sides... I think you are both being a bit too extreme, but studies are refuted all the time. Even scientific studies that have more support than not have been refuted by other scientific studies. The laws of physics are some of the only things we can really hang our hats on in regards to factual evidence. Either one of you could pull up a scientific study backing up your points, and the other could equally pull up another study that squashes it. Most studies are laced with agendas and opinions (based on theories).

Hetero parents, gay parents, single parents, there is no rule book for parenting. Just as success can only be defined by the individual, so can proper parenting. But when it comes down to it, as a great scientific mind once said:

Yes, I knew the study would not suffice. But like the other guy said, studies like these get refuted all the time. Why? Because they are nothing more than statistics which are being used to support a claim. As I've said, statistics prove nothing. In 30-40 years you and I will both have statistics supporting our view on gay marriage in America. The part that seemed like a copout was you getting hung up on the scientific part. You seem like an intelligent guy and should know the difference in what science can and can't prove. You also seem to be hanging you argument on the notion that if I can't provide you with some tangible scientific proof then it doesn't exist. Yet while you readily admit that there are differences in the sexes you seem unable to grasp that those differences will be present in parenting. But none of that matters now. [/quote

No. That's your misundertsanding. I've never denied that there are differences, nor have I denied that those differences will be present during parenting. What I've argued, and what you've consistently misunderstood, is that gay parents can, and do, perform as well or better than straight parents at raising kids. Not all the time. Maybe not even as often - I really don't know. But what I do know is that you cannot sit there and say that straight parents are ipso facto better for kids than gay parents because straight parents can provide something that gay parents can't. Fact is, you don't know that to be true, you just assume it to be true because your take on your religion apparently compels you to do so.


I'm not sure why. My views on this are my views, regardless of my religious belief.


I disagree completely. I choose to read the Bible as a historical document. None of it was written by God. It was written by fallible men interpreting what they believed God's word to be. While I don't know you, I'm going to be that you're not an expert on the Bible's origins, translations, etc. You have no idea how accurate the translations that have come down through the years may be. I'm not going to get into a theological debate with you about Gods Word, but I will say that I don't believe that the God I know would be hung up on such meaningless intricacies of our lives.

[triscottMS]One of the hardest things to get across in these conversations is that the God designed family is centered around Him.

Non-Christians don't care about that. I'm assuming you do if you're a Christian. That again is enough to know that gay marriages are not healthy places for children.

I am a Christian (I said so very early on in the discussion). I'm just not blinded by literalism from a historical document written by men and translated (and quite possibly mistranslated) over the course of thousands of years.

You may not want to go down this road and if not, that's fine. But the bible says that in order to be a Christian and thus be saved, you must put you trust in Jesus Christ and Him alone. How do you know that that is true if you don't trust the validity of the bible?

Or in other words, on what basis do you claim to be a Christian?

If this is your view on the bible: It was written by fallible men interpreting what they believed God's word to be. How, and I guess why, would you want to put your trust in Christ? Based on your view of the bible, even if the men who wrote the original text got it right, it's probably been messed up since then. So when it says that Jesus was the Son of God who dies for the sins of His people, what makes you believe that part?

These are really just honest questions. Say the word and I'll stop asking. I know we're off topic at this point but I think we're the only ones left on this thread. :) Hey, if we have nothing else in common we at least both have stamina!

My Faith. I believe there are some major tenets of Christianity that it would be very difficult to get "wrong," even with the fallibility of Man.

Interesting.

I was actually thinking of this game while I was reading the thread...

I was actually thinking of this game while I was reading the thread...