why do you feel the need to "help out the consumer?" If you're in the 10% of people who are super in to data about wheels, then DON'T BUY WHEELS ON A FORUM. I'll answer your question: no it's not ok to mislead a consumer, but that's not at all what happened here. The seller was relaying info received from a Zipp rep, so your issue should be with them. Instead of spewing crap about seconds in a 40k, you should be on the phone with the Zipp rep who "mislead" the seller with bad info. And yes, gains from any race wheels in the overall scheme of things are SUBTLE.

Ha! 1590 views and 26 responses at last count! That has to be a record for the Classifieds! This thread is starting to become legendary.

Free bump for a great deal on a great set of wheels. If I did not already have a set, I would be on this like stink on a monkey!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

First of all it is easy to hide behind the cloak of someone else. I highly doubt the Zipp rep in question would say "oh ya there is no difference in a 2008 versus 2009/2010 or 2011 FC". As a sales guy, if you can't can speak intelligently about a new product when you actually have a NEW product then you get a grade of F from me as your sales manager. Usually sales guys are doing the opposite, touting a new product when there is nothing new.

Why do I feel the need to help the consumer out, I'm sorry but when I see something like this in an ad I get a guilty conscience by letting it go. I'm sorry but I have a big heart and I hate to see people mislead. Unfortunately in today's world I see it all time whether you were an investor in one of the complex financial structures that went south, whether you got sold down the river on a house you could not afford by a greedy mortgage broker, or whether you simply bought a pair of wheels that you thought were the latest and greatest - less 4 spokes - when all you got was a 3-generation old wheel. I'll bring up a story about giving that has always stuck with me.

"
Once a man was walking along a beach. The sun was shining and it was a beautiful day. Off in the distance he could see a person going back and forth between the surf's edge and and the beach. Back and forth this person went. As the man approached he could see that there were hundreds of starfish stranded on the sand as the result of the natural action of the tide.

The man was stuck by the the apparent futility of the task. There were far too many starfish. Many of them were sure to perish. As he approached the person continued the task of picking up starfish one by one and throwing them into the surf.

As he came up to the person he said, "You must be crazy. There are thousands of miles of beach covered with starfish. You can't possibly make a difference." The person looked at the man. He then stooped down and picked up one more starfish and threw it back into the ocean. He turned back to the man and said, "It sure made a difference to that one!"
So maybe I didn't help you out, and maybe I don't help out anyone with this rant, but if I educate even one person with this post then I feel like I have made a difference. I know this sounds a little corny but I'm sorry if you don't find this knowledge useful. Would it not have been helpful when you purchased your rack - as indicated in this post - if someone at the company had informed you of the correct fairing to buy the first time around

And I do buy wheels on this forum and if someone sells me something I expect they are doing a fair job of representing the item. As I said, I mentioned this to the OP in a PM and I got a bunch of smerky replies but I didn't see any effort to change the ad. Yes later he chimed in but the ad still stands unedited. Regardless of a performance difference, the point is that the difference is not just 4 spokes.

Lastly, you mentioned gains from any race wheel in the overall scheme of things are subtle. Have you ever rode a 2008 Zipp with a 19 tire, 2009/2010 Zipp with a 21, and 2011 with a 21? I don't think the ride quality is subtle at all but this is subjective of course. Objectively I don't think 23 seconds of free speed is subtle at 40K, or 115 seconds or almost 2 minutes at IM distance is subtle. Maybe you do. Why did you buy a powermeter. Has it helped you improve 23 seconds in a 40K without any additional effort?

Yes this was verbose post. Yes this has received a lot of views, hopefully he can sell the wheels. I see a lot of people saying nice price, if it is such a nice price then why don't you put your money where you mouth is and step up and buy them from him. After all they are such a deal, how could you possibly go wrong. You could buy them, ride them, and then turn them around for a profit in 2012. The truth is that many on this forum have wheels they consider as nice or nicer and as FC comes out you see more and more people selling 2009/2010 models with new 88/188 hubs, a wider bed and better rim shape. Honestly would you rather spend $1700 for Firecrest model or ~$1500 for these? May I add that the Firecrest CC msrp was $2700 I think and the 2008 Zipp was about $2000 or maybe $2150 - can't remember for sure.

I'm sure there will be more haters below.

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Some good advertising for this guy and his wheels. Great marketing aigh? If we can't get these sold for him in the next day or two I would be shocked ;)

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Just curious - what are you hoping to achieve here? Your posts on this thread are a borderline violation of Rule 9. No commentary.

On Sept 21, 2010, you blatantly violated Rule 9 by hijacking a thread selling an Ultegra 6600 in an attempt to sell your own Ultegra 6700. Major no-no.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...rch_string=;#2999959

You post a lot of stuff for sale in the ST Classifieds. Probably would hurt your efforts if you developed a reputation. Just say'in ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

JSA - I'm pretty sure it is obvious what I was trying to achieve. That is simple good clean reliable data and information. Are you in favor of posts that are inaccurate? Maybe you don't see it as misleading but if I am new to the sport and someone says I have this set of wheels for $1500 and this set for $1200 and I ask what the difference is and I am told 4-spokes then I think that is doing the customer a disservice. There is a lot more than 4-spokes. Sometimes I find that people get intimidated by ST and are hesitant to post in fear of bashing. Make no mistake about it, despite the negativity towards me I have been PMed about this post regarding the info and it indicates the people appreciate some of the knowledge I have to offer. I am all in favor of more information and more transparency for consumers. It would have been great if someone had told me Zipp 808 FC were right around the corner when I purchased new 2010 Zipp 808s this year.

I'm not exactly sure how the posts on this thread are borderline violation of rule #9 - I'm not trying to sell another product in this thread. In the thread you mentioned I agree that was a grey-area and comes down to a subjective interpretation of what is a "similar" item. I knew the guy was selling an old Octalink BB one. I figured the guy based on his comment might be interested in something more recent and viewed it as a non-competing product. Not as a hi-jack. I will apologize regardless for the post, I did not intend to hi-jack that thread. As for as application of rules go I'm glad to see that you actually took the time to review information unlike other posters who don't bother. Although I agree with bringing this to my intention I still seem to find it a tad bit ironic and hypocritical that you are calling me out on a slight interpretive rule violation when yourself said and quote "He is right about the rule. IMO, he is a power-tripping douche for trying to enforce it in the situation you describe." Seems to me that you respect rules but also know when they are not applicable or at least not reasonable to apply. I say tad bit ironic because I myself admit the post was definitely in a grey area but you seem to be searching my past and scraping for crumbs. Not doubt you feel the rule was applicable in this case and that is why I apologize to you.

Lastly, I'm not worried about my reputation. People can think what they want to think and I'm not going to change that. I believe in the contract, I believe in the customer is always right, and I want to make sure they have as good of an experience is possible. If people don't want that and would rather buy from people who sell items with incorrect information then let them do so. I can only show them the door - I can't make them walk through it.

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I stand by my opinion stated on page one. However, now there is clear proof.

I can't believe you pulled out the starfish parable. At the risk of sounding inflammatory and causing you to write us another story illustrating your perspective, I would have to argue that the customer is NOT always right. It was a famous phrase of Enzo Ferrari and one that I agree with. The customer is only always right when you're afraid of losing their business. Most of the time they don't know what they want. Alot of people, myself included, would be very happy with a great set of 808 wheels such as these and would be happier thinking they were not so inferior as you suggest. Maybe there is a difference between these wheels that are being offered at a phenomenal price and the latest iteration but they're still great wheels at a great deal. I will put my vote with everyone else and say that neither he, nor anyone else, needed you to chime in. I'll also say that he does not need me to chime in either. However, I did a little free time before I headed out on the bike(though obviously not as much as you). I'll be looking for you at kona.

clear proof of what? and is it possible you could take the time to respond to my questions of your previous posts? Fact of the matter is that the OP who knows there are differences now just continues to mock the situation - see his update to his ad. He clearly has no intention of actually informing the customer about the enhancements you would get by purchasing a 2009/2010 or 2011 version which he seems so inclined to compare them to only a money pit with no performance.

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Wow-this thread has been so much fun to read!

I hope the wheels are sold quickly. They are a great deal no matter what Mr. David Horowitz/Ralph Nader wannabe says.

If you spent half as much time out training instead of writing your paragraphs on this forum you'd gain a whole lot more than 23 seconds in a TT dude.

Do you really think this point has not yet been made in this thread? I'm pretty sure any potential buyer has WAY more information about these horrible and out-dated wheels than they need.

I think he should raise the price of the wheels. In fact, I'll send him 10.00 right now simply to raise the price in the hopes they don't get sold. I have so enjoyed reading the drivel from electusuuns (whatever.) This is excellent entertainment.

I feel like I'm getting hung over now that the thread is slowing down. Me need more entertainment!

When did Zipp start making their wheels out of starfish?

I thought they were carbon.

I think electus anus has finally talked the OP down low enough that he bought them. Maybe he really is smart enough to mastermind a plan to get a sweet deal and not just a complete dick hole.

Are 2008 Zipp 808s slower than 2010 SRAM 80/80? By how many seconds?

Nice One Dan!

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Bobby Jones

Wow more name calling - I guess nobody learned how to take the high-road in their life. If the wheels are such a good deal as you say they are then surely you should buy them and then turnaround and sell them for a profit and then donate that profit to some deserving charity - makes good sense to me, how about you? I mean this post has over 2200+ views, surely it has got more attention than most other posts on ST and yet they still haven't sold. When you get a chance can you send me some good stock tips that you think are good deals so I can make sure to short the stocks? You are going to to make me a fortune.

As for you second bash. I find it ironic when people bash people for wasting time making a post but yet they waste time replying. At least my post is actually helping one side - the consumer. Your post helps nobody and is nothing but hypocritical bashing. And if you had read the post by jkcoop3 you might understand why it is ok for me to spend a little time on ST right now, instead of trashing the legs for fitness that will never be there when I need it.

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I'm glad you find it entertaining. I'll be entertained when you post the tracking number and a picture of the $10 check you are going to send to the seller... So how about it? While you are at it why don't you make a $10 donation to the Steve Larsen Memorial Fund too.

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Wow more name calling - what maturity everyone has. Where did you learn how to take the high-road? They should be commended for how well they taught it. Geez, I didn't know it was so bad to protect consumer from a seller who chooses to disregard valid information on the products they are selling.

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"On a screen near you, electusunus starring as"

Hey Ben Niles it now all makes sense why you are such a hater. Clearly you like to skew the facts as well - in this post you were not actually the fastest runner in your AG nor were you the faster biker. The winner Nick Langer was pulled out of the AG results. Another guy may have had a faster run although it can't be confirmed because his split for that portion is not available. When you talk to potential sponsors do you tell them you were the fastest biker/runner 30-34 M at the J-Hawks Early Bird Triathlon? I bet they melt when they hear that and instantly give you a lucrative contract ;)

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Hey it is easy to take shots on the internet when you are hiding behind a 53x12...

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I usually lurk around here, and posts like this are the reason why. This is EPIC! I love how the electricanus guy looks up all the previous posts, looking for some dirty laundry to air. He reminds me of a lawyer friend who, in his college years, spent more than a little time wondering how he ended up on the floor of the bar.

yep this really is helping me get thru the taper boredom. I figure there will be a few more shots from the crowd at some point and I look forward to digging thru and reading a bunch of ST threads I would have never read otherwise. It is amazing some of the actual good informative stuff I am finding and I'm not just saying that. The original ~"bring back Swimfan" thread was a huge time waster for me, but it was a pretty good read - highly recommended if you have never read it.

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