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When doing the right thing sucks
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Just yanked the drivers license of an old guy. 25 years ago he pulled me out of the ditch with his tractor when I skidded in during a winter storm and refused any compensation.

It had to be done he was obviously not fit to drive and a menace to the general population.

What do you have?

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [spockman] [ In reply to ]
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Similar. We had to take my dad’s car keys away from him. Very hard to do but the right thing.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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I have a 100year old neighbor who still drives. When I see him driving in the neighborhood, I do give a bit more distance and watch closely.

He's amazing.

My mom is up there in years. She gave up the keys voluntarily a few years ago.

In my case, I like driving. It'll be a sad day when I realize I shouldn't be out there. Or when they pry the keys out of my hands.
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [spockman] [ In reply to ]
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Did you suggest a car service? When I pulled my dad’s keys I was able to hire a woman to drive him around three days a week for what he was paying in insurance and car costs. It really lessened the blow. 9 hours a week of chauffeuring.

But it did suck for me. I think he ended up happier with a companion driving him.
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [spockman] [ In reply to ]
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Good job. We're probably going to be there with my dad at some point, but he's still ok.
I'm taking a break (maybe forever) from practice. Still keeping my licenses and CME for now, but it's been a heckuva 27 years.
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [spockman] [ In reply to ]
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2 days ago I made the toughest decision of my life. A week long really ugly trial I was on the jury for.

There were 4 charges, 3 we were in pretty much agreement that there was not enough evidence to convict.

The last charge 11 were in favor of guilty, I voted not guilty because the dna evidence did support the charge.

I’m honestly sick to my stomach about it but I had reasonable doubt so I voted not guilty. I will be ok may may seek counseling because it’s all I can think about. But I’ve analyzed it every which way and I feel I made the right choice.
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [spockman] [ In reply to ]
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My FIL should not be driving. It's declined a lot in the last few years. They live in a small town and he's okay to do errands etc, but leaving town makes me nervous. MIL is blind, so once he's done, that's it.

I like the idea of someone to take them out for errands though...
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [spockman] [ In reply to ]
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Christmas Eve, 2018. Returned from dinner out to find our dog lethargic and with very labored breathing. She had been fighting some kind of pneumonia and we'd tried all the treatments - oral antibiotics, nebulized antibiotics & saline, emergency vet for IV antibiotics. Back to the emergency vet, where we found out she had a collapsed lung and there were no other treatment options. We left with her leash and collar.

_________________________________________________
"The will to win means nothing without the will to prepare" - Juma Ikangaa

http://www.litespeed.com
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [spockman] [ In reply to ]
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Have done the 'take the keys from the elderly' thing. No fun.


Self-interested one.

I was admitted to an ivy league school for college. I very much wanted to go.

My mother died a month after I finished high school. I ended up staying in my home town that I desperately wanted out of at the time, and going to a (fine, but not ivy) college there because my dad was a wreck and I was worried he was going to hurt himself.

I made the best of it that I could, and I know I did the right thing. But 30 years on and I still sometimes have the "what if" thoughts in the wee hours of the morning.
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [spockman] [ In reply to ]
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As the child of a parent in this situation, I say thank you! It is tough, and we appreciate you making the tough calls.

My dad's entire existence revolved around driving, cars and driving were his passion. As he declined, at first we just made sure it was limited to driving local, then we finally asked his doctors to please tell him he couldn't drive. His license was never revoked officially, and fortunately he is compliant. But he keeps talking about "getting his license back." At this point, it's a non starter, he couldn't even make the windows go down in the car yesterday. Getting old sucks sometimes.
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [TiDriver] [ In reply to ]
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TiDriver wrote:
Christmas Eve, 2018. Returned from dinner out to find our dog lethargic and with very labored breathing. She had been fighting some kind of pneumonia and we'd tried all the treatments - oral antibiotics, nebulized antibiotics & saline, emergency vet for IV antibiotics. Back to the emergency vet, where we found out she had a collapsed lung and there were no other treatment options. We left with her leash and collar.

Wow that's brutal, thanks for sharing. Dog lovers' hearts break hearing stories like yours, but they are so worth it.
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [zed707] [ In reply to ]
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zed707 wrote:
TiDriver wrote:
Christmas Eve, 2018. Returned from dinner out to find our dog lethargic and with very labored breathing. She had been fighting some kind of pneumonia and we'd tried all the treatments - oral antibiotics, nebulized antibiotics & saline, emergency vet for IV antibiotics. Back to the emergency vet, where we found out she had a collapsed lung and there were no other treatment options. We left with her leash and collar.


Wow that's brutal, thanks for sharing. Dog lovers' hearts break hearing stories like yours, but they are so worth it.

A couple days ago, we learned that our neighbor's mom had to put her (outwardly happy and healthy) dog down unexpectedly. He had a bit of a limp, and the vet found advanced bone cancer which had basically eaten a hole in one of his leg bones and it was on the verge of failing with little provocation. He was the perfect dog and companion for her, and to let it ride until he was miserable would have just been selfish. Talk about a heartbreaking decision to have to make....

Yes, they are absolutely worth it.

Goddammit, it's getting dusty in here...

_________________________________________________
"The will to win means nothing without the will to prepare" - Juma Ikangaa

http://www.litespeed.com
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [TiDriver] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, it's getting pretty dusty here too :-(
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [Triocd] [ In reply to ]
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Triocd wrote:
2 days ago I made the toughest decision of my life. A week long really ugly trial I was on the jury for.

There were 4 charges, 3 we were in pretty much agreement that there was not enough evidence to convict.

The last charge 11 were in favor of guilty, I voted not guilty because the dna evidence did support the charge.

I’m honestly sick to my stomach about it but I had reasonable doubt so I voted not guilty. I will be ok may may seek counseling because it’s all I can think about. But I’ve analyzed it every which way and I feel I made the right choice.

Don’t beat yourself up. It sounds like you were a conscientious juror, listened to the evidence, analyzed it carefully and stuck to your guns. It can be hard to stand against a wave of contrary opinions. As long as you listened to those opinions and gave them due consideration, then you did the right thing. Our system requires unanimity for good reasons. It would defeat those good reasons if jurors in the minority just caved to the majority. The prosecution has the option to retry the case if they think it’s winnable. You did your part, now it’s up to the prosecution to decide how to do their part.
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [ike] [ In reply to ]
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ike wrote:
Triocd wrote:
2 days ago I made the toughest decision of my life. A week long really ugly trial I was on the jury for.

There were 4 charges, 3 we were in pretty much agreement that there was not enough evidence to convict.

The last charge 11 were in favor of guilty, I voted not guilty because the dna evidence did support the charge.

I’m honestly sick to my stomach about it but I had reasonable doubt so I voted not guilty. I will be ok may may seek counseling because it’s all I can think about. But I’ve analyzed it every which way and I feel I made the right choice.

Don’t beat yourself up. It sounds like you were a conscientious juror, listened to the evidence, analyzed it carefully and stuck to your guns. It can be hard to stand against a wave of contrary opinions. As long as you listened to those opinions and gave them due consideration, then you did the right thing. Our system requires unanimity for good reasons. It would defeat those good reasons if jurors in the minority just caved to the majority. The prosecution has the option to retry the case if they think it’s winnable. You did your part, now it’s up to the prosecution to decide how to do their part.


Thank you for that. I didn’t know the prosecution could try again. In deliberations we talked about group think a lot and how to avoid it. When we started there were 6 in favor of guilty and 6 not guilty. As we deliberated, some of the strongest not guilty people switched to guilty. It may have been them falling to group think but it became harder and harder for me as they each switched sides.
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [Triocd] [ In reply to ]
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Triocd wrote:
ike wrote:
Triocd wrote:
2 days ago I made the toughest decision of my life. A week long really ugly trial I was on the jury for.

There were 4 charges, 3 we were in pretty much agreement that there was not enough evidence to convict.

The last charge 11 were in favor of guilty, I voted not guilty because the dna evidence did support the charge.

I’m honestly sick to my stomach about it but I had reasonable doubt so I voted not guilty. I will be ok may may seek counseling because it’s all I can think about. But I’ve analyzed it every which way and I feel I made the right choice.

Don’t beat yourself up. It sounds like you were a conscientious juror, listened to the evidence, analyzed it carefully and stuck to your guns. It can be hard to stand against a wave of contrary opinions. As long as you listened to those opinions and gave them due consideration, then you did the right thing. Our system requires unanimity for good reasons. It would defeat those good reasons if jurors in the minority just caved to the majority. The prosecution has the option to retry the case if they think it’s winnable. You did your part, now it’s up to the prosecution to decide how to do their part.


Thank you for that. I didn’t know the prosecution could try again. In deliberations we talked about group think a lot and how to avoid it. When we started there were 6 in favor of guilty and 6 not guilty. As we deliberated, some of the strongest not guilty people switched to guilty. It may have been them falling to group think but it became harder and harder for me as they each switched sides.

Perhaps I misunderstood the final vote. But if it was a hung jury due to lack of a unanimous vote for guilty or not guilty, then there was a mistrial. In that situation the rule against double jeopardy does not apply, and the prosecution can try again.
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [spockman] [ In reply to ]
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We were debating taking my Dad’s licence away. He was driving less but his care was wearing my Mum down and it would cause more strife so we wanted to find the right way to do it. Then he had a fall and suffered a serious concussion. His license was never officially yanked but he seemed to think it was and we never corrected him.

Taking my Mum into palliative care was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. She said she wanted to go but was just so scared. It was in early 2021 so lots of pandemic restrictions were still in place. The care wasn’t abusive or neglectful, it was just perfunctory, and not what I wanted for my mother’s last days. Unfortunately that was the best option as her decline was too quick for us to arrange care at home. It was the best choice out of a list of bad options, but three years later I still hate having done it.
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [Triocd] [ In reply to ]
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Triocd wrote:
ike wrote:
Triocd wrote:
2 days ago I made the toughest decision of my life. A week long really ugly trial I was on the jury for.

There were 4 charges, 3 we were in pretty much agreement that there was not enough evidence to convict.

The last charge 11 were in favor of guilty, I voted not guilty because the dna evidence did support the charge.

I’m honestly sick to my stomach about it but I had reasonable doubt so I voted not guilty. I will be ok may may seek counseling because it’s all I can think about. But I’ve analyzed it every which way and I feel I made the right choice.

Don’t beat yourself up. It sounds like you were a conscientious juror, listened to the evidence, analyzed it carefully and stuck to your guns. It can be hard to stand against a wave of contrary opinions. As long as you listened to those opinions and gave them due consideration, then you did the right thing. Our system requires unanimity for good reasons. It would defeat those good reasons if jurors in the minority just caved to the majority. The prosecution has the option to retry the case if they think it’s winnable. You did your part, now it’s up to the prosecution to decide how to do their part.


Thank you for that. I didn’t know the prosecution could try again. In deliberations we talked about group think a lot and how to avoid it. When we started there were 6 in favor of guilty and 6 not guilty. As we deliberated, some of the strongest not guilty people switched to guilty. It may have been them falling to group think but it became harder and harder for me as they each switched sides.

You got a new plot for a remake of “12 Angry Men” going
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [Triocd] [ In reply to ]
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Triocd wrote:
2 days ago I made the toughest decision of my life. A week long really ugly trial I was on the jury for.

There were 4 charges, 3 we were in pretty much agreement that there was not enough evidence to convict.

The last charge 11 were in favor of guilty, I voted not guilty because the dna evidence did support the charge.

I’m honestly sick to my stomach about it but I had reasonable doubt so I voted not guilty. I will be ok may may seek counseling because it’s all I can think about. But I’ve analyzed it every which way and I feel I made the right choice.

You’re awesome, not that I anticipate being judged by a jury of my peers I would take you on mine any day.
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [iBot] [ In reply to ]
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I just saw that movie for the first time ever last month. Awesome movie. And very relevant to the mentioned situation.
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [spockman] [ In reply to ]
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I cut contact with an ex who was threatening suicide, because the situation got pretty messed up and started impacting other people in my life. He went through with it about a month later.
I think I'd give someone else the same advice in my position, and I only found out afterwards that there was a history of similar issues. Never felt less awful about it, not least because we were friends beforehand and he was there for me during some of my own mental health stuff. I shared what he'd said to me with his mother following the breakup, but didn't want to take it any further- I still wonder if that would have changed anything.
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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [Moonrocket] [ In reply to ]
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Moonrocket wrote:
Did you suggest a car service? When I pulled my dad’s keys I was able to hire a woman to drive him around three days a week for what he was paying in insurance and car costs. It really lessened the blow. 9 hours a week of chauffeuring.

But it did suck for me. I think he ended up happier with a companion driving him.

Unfortunately we don't even have taxis or Uber in our area. I wouldn't be surprised if I see him around driving his tractor though

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [TiDriver] [ In reply to ]
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TiDriver wrote:
Christmas Eve, 2018. Returned from dinner out to find our dog lethargic and with very labored breathing. She had been fighting some kind of pneumonia and we'd tried all the treatments - oral antibiotics, nebulized antibiotics & saline, emergency vet for IV antibiotics. Back to the emergency vet, where we found out she had a collapsed lung and there were no other treatment options. We left with her leash and collar.

Yes that is a sad story.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [wimsey] [ In reply to ]
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wimsey wrote:
Have done the 'take the keys from the elderly' thing. No fun.


Self-interested one.

I was admitted to an ivy league school for college. I very much wanted to go.

My mother died a month after I finished high school. I ended up staying in my home town that I desperately wanted out of at the time, and going to a (fine, but not ivy) college there because my dad was a wreck and I was worried he was going to hurt himself.

I made the best of it that I could, and I know I did the right thing. But 30 years on and I still sometimes have the "what if" thoughts in the wee hours of the morning.

You are awesome. Maybe the what if is what if you went to the ivy league school and things ended up badly.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: When doing the right thing sucks [Triocd] [ In reply to ]
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Triocd wrote:
2 days ago I made the toughest decision of my life. A week long really ugly trial I was on the jury for.

There were 4 charges, 3 we were in pretty much agreement that there was not enough evidence to convict.

The last charge 11 were in favor of guilty, I voted not guilty because the dna evidence did support the charge.

I’m honestly sick to my stomach about it but I had reasonable doubt so I voted not guilty. I will be ok may may seek counseling because it’s all I can think about. But I’ve analyzed it every which way and I feel I made the right choice.

Am late to the party on this and am not sure what you are allowed to share versus not share.
Have never had to do jury service before, not sure how I have avoided it and also am not USA based, so not sure if there are differences etc.
Am interested in how the DNA evidence played into things? Was it a situation where there should be DNA evidence linking the accused to the crime?
I can imagine there are many things that need to line up, including DNA evidence, to be convinced of guilt, but also in that regard, a lack of DNA evidence may not always mean innocence (and imagine there are many nuances in between)?
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