"I think the big question is this- Why do nearly ALL of the extremist terrorist migrate from the Muslim faith?"
You can't really put it any simpler than that.
You can't really put it any simpler than that.
Lavender Room
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Re: ISLAM [hasbeenswimmer]
[ In reply to ]
Re: ISLAM [hasbeenswimmer]
[ In reply to ]
"Why do nearly ALL of the extremist terrorist migrate from the Muslim faith?"
They don't, and to say that they do is to ignore reality. The truth is that, right now, most of the terrorism we see is Muslim. Most is not the same as nearly ALL, and what we see is not always the same as what actually exists. However, there are plenty of non-Muslim terrorist organizations, and in the past, there have been plenty of times in history when the majority of terrorism was not being perpetrated by Muslims. Here's a short list of non-Muslim transnational terrorist groups as designated by the Dept of State. Keep in mind this is just the transnational ones; it doesn't include groups that operate strictly within their own borders:
Aum Shinrikyo - Japan
Basque Fatherland and Liberty(ETC)- Spain
Japanese Red Army - Japan
Kach and Kahane Chai - Israel
Kurdistan Worker's Party - Turkey
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam - Srilanka
National Liberation Army - Colombia
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia - Colombia
Revolutionary Liberation People's Party - Turkey
Revolutionary People's Struggle - Greece
Sendero Luminoso - Peru
Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement - Peru
So that's 12 groups. The list from which these were taken had 17 groups that were Muslim extremists, or could be tied to Muslim extremists (i.e. their goals are actually political instead of religious, but they are Arab, so you could stretch and say they are Islamic terrorists). So, as I said, "most" is not the same as "nearly ALL."
A better question would be "Why have the incidences of Islamic terrorism increased so dramatically in the last 10 or 20 years?" What shifted the world from predominately political terrorism towards a greater proportion of religiously motivated terrorism (even if much of the motivation is still political, but justified by extreme interpretations of religion)? Much of the Islamic terrorism that exists today is not strictly religious. In other words, it is not perpetrated in an attempt to accomplish some grand religious goal so much as it is focussed towards a political goal (get Palestinians their own land, kick out an unfriendly govt, etc) but couched in, or justified by, a particular reading of religion. This could be mirrored by "Christian" groups in the U.S. who have a political goal of overturning the govt, and justify it by a twisted reading of the Bible that tells them that Blacks and Jews aren't pure and shouldn't be in power. In short (although it may be too late for that) your original premise, the one that Roo thinks is so simply put, is simply not true.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
They don't, and to say that they do is to ignore reality. The truth is that, right now, most of the terrorism we see is Muslim. Most is not the same as nearly ALL, and what we see is not always the same as what actually exists. However, there are plenty of non-Muslim terrorist organizations, and in the past, there have been plenty of times in history when the majority of terrorism was not being perpetrated by Muslims. Here's a short list of non-Muslim transnational terrorist groups as designated by the Dept of State. Keep in mind this is just the transnational ones; it doesn't include groups that operate strictly within their own borders:
Aum Shinrikyo - Japan
Basque Fatherland and Liberty(ETC)- Spain
Japanese Red Army - Japan
Kach and Kahane Chai - Israel
Kurdistan Worker's Party - Turkey
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam - Srilanka
National Liberation Army - Colombia
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia - Colombia
Revolutionary Liberation People's Party - Turkey
Revolutionary People's Struggle - Greece
Sendero Luminoso - Peru
Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement - Peru
So that's 12 groups. The list from which these were taken had 17 groups that were Muslim extremists, or could be tied to Muslim extremists (i.e. their goals are actually political instead of religious, but they are Arab, so you could stretch and say they are Islamic terrorists). So, as I said, "most" is not the same as "nearly ALL."
A better question would be "Why have the incidences of Islamic terrorism increased so dramatically in the last 10 or 20 years?" What shifted the world from predominately political terrorism towards a greater proportion of religiously motivated terrorism (even if much of the motivation is still political, but justified by extreme interpretations of religion)? Much of the Islamic terrorism that exists today is not strictly religious. In other words, it is not perpetrated in an attempt to accomplish some grand religious goal so much as it is focussed towards a political goal (get Palestinians their own land, kick out an unfriendly govt, etc) but couched in, or justified by, a particular reading of religion. This could be mirrored by "Christian" groups in the U.S. who have a political goal of overturning the govt, and justify it by a twisted reading of the Bible that tells them that Blacks and Jews aren't pure and shouldn't be in power. In short (although it may be too late for that) your original premise, the one that Roo thinks is so simply put, is simply not true.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
Re: ISLAM [kangaroo]
[ In reply to ]
"And you suddenly wouldn't argue with that???"
No Roo, I wouldn't argue with the statement that most terrorism is currently being perpetrated by Muslims. The way you know that is because I've said it many times in my own posts. Maybe if you read up on stuff instead of assuming you know what's going on without any evidence, you wouldn't hold such a messed up view of the world.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
No Roo, I wouldn't argue with the statement that most terrorism is currently being perpetrated by Muslims. The way you know that is because I've said it many times in my own posts. Maybe if you read up on stuff instead of assuming you know what's going on without any evidence, you wouldn't hold such a messed up view of the world.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
Re: ISLAM [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
I think I am still going to stick with my "nearly all" statement for now. I took a look at the list you supplied and the only one on the list that I even have remote knowledge of the Basque movement. The only reason I am aware that particular movement or group is because of the TDF and the small protests that took place during a few of the Basque stages. I know that my news is the very US centered and I am sure that if I lived in one of the areas that these groups works I would have much better understanding of them. But comparing any one of the groups you listed to any big time Muslim extremist group is like comparing a firecracker to a daisy cutter bomb. If they were big time like the Muslims groups are then they would get their share of the media coverage, but they don’t. In the last 5-10 years I bet that if you totaled all the various bombings and attacks from Muslim groups you would come up with 10,000 + dead due to Muslim terrorism, on the other hand I think you would be hard pressed to come up with a hundred from the groups you listed.
If that holds true then
100/10000 = .01
1% Other
99% Muslim
99% in my book equals "Nearly All"
Please correct me if I am wrong on the numbers.
----------------------------------------------------------
I'm just a 10 cent rider on a $2,500.00 Bike
If that holds true then
100/10000 = .01
1% Other
99% Muslim
99% in my book equals "Nearly All"
Please correct me if I am wrong on the numbers.
----------------------------------------------------------
I'm just a 10 cent rider on a $2,500.00 Bike
Re: ISLAM [hasbeenswimmer]
[ In reply to ]
Maybe if you've never heard of shining light or the Tamil tigers, are so insulated from world affairs that you have no idea of the civil war that has raged in Sri Lanka and the child soldiering and attrocities that that involved, if you can't remember the Tokyo Subway bombings well maybe you shouldn't make such bold assertions?
I stay out of these discussions generally because I cconsider myself smart enough to recognise my own ignoorance. As a straw poll I'd be interested to know, without googling, how many ''big-time" Muslim groups people can actually name off the top of their heads? I got to three one of which is notorious not for the scale of its actions but for the videoed beheadings that have been their trade mark. In terms of total casualties they are in fact negligible.
"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
I stay out of these discussions generally because I cconsider myself smart enough to recognise my own ignoorance. As a straw poll I'd be interested to know, without googling, how many ''big-time" Muslim groups people can actually name off the top of their heads? I got to three one of which is notorious not for the scale of its actions but for the videoed beheadings that have been their trade mark. In terms of total casualties they are in fact negligible.
"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
Re: ISLAM [luckyleese]
[ In reply to ]
Wow that is quite standard you set forth. So let me understand, by your standard no one can express and opinion unless they are an expert in the field of discussion. Based on your standard that will pretty much shut slowtwitch down. I guess I need to limit my discussions to swimming- unless I’m not an expert of course. Who is the judge of experts? Is there an expert judge for experts?
FYI I do remember the Tokyo subway gassings, what I did no remember is who was responsible for them, I’ll file that away so I can be closer to being an expert. If I recall there were about 10 killed in that attack, and it was in the early to mid 90’s. So even though I said attacks in the last 5-10 years I’ll still count this attack. So only 90 more to go to get that staggering 1% or so of fatalities not associated with Muslim terrorism.
I came up with 4 Muslim groups (I am sure I Mis spelled these)
Al Queda
Ansraw al Islam\
Hamas
PLO ( yes I call that a terror org)
Not sure what this has to do with point out the fact the Muslims are responsible for almost all of the terrorism in thw world today but there you have it I am not an expert at naming Muslim terror groups.
----------------------------------------------------------
I'm just a 10 cent rider on a $2,500.00 Bike
FYI I do remember the Tokyo subway gassings, what I did no remember is who was responsible for them, I’ll file that away so I can be closer to being an expert. If I recall there were about 10 killed in that attack, and it was in the early to mid 90’s. So even though I said attacks in the last 5-10 years I’ll still count this attack. So only 90 more to go to get that staggering 1% or so of fatalities not associated with Muslim terrorism.
I came up with 4 Muslim groups (I am sure I Mis spelled these)
Al Queda
Ansraw al Islam\
Hamas
PLO ( yes I call that a terror org)
Not sure what this has to do with point out the fact the Muslims are responsible for almost all of the terrorism in thw world today but there you have it I am not an expert at naming Muslim terror groups.
----------------------------------------------------------
I'm just a 10 cent rider on a $2,500.00 Bike
Re: ISLAM [hasbeenswimmer]
[ In reply to ]
List from terrorism.com of attacks that have killed at least 50 people. I have not tried to categorise this at all, since I gotta go, but it would be interesting to see an analysis of which are Muslim / non-muslim. I am assuming that this list is accurate.
March 12, 2006: Baghdad, Iraq
Car bomb by Insurgents, terrorists, militants in Iraq
January 5, 2006: Ramadi, Iraq
Suicide bomber by Insurgents, terrorists, militants in Iraq
November 18, 2005: Khanaqin, Iraq
Suicide bomber by Insurgents, terrorists, militants in Iraq
November 9, 2005: Radisson SAS, Grand Hyatt, and Days Inn Hotels, Amman, Jordan
Suicide bomber by Al Qaeda in the Land of the Two Rivers
October 29, 2005: New Delhi, India
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle
October 13, 2005: Nalchik, Kabardino-Balkaria, Russia
Assault General by Yarmuk
September 29, 2005: Balad, Iraq
Suicide bomber by Insurgents, terrorists, militants in Iraq
September 14, 2005: Baghdad, Iraq
Suicide bomber by Al Qaeda in the Land of the Two Rivers
July 23, 2005: Sharm al-Sheikh, Sinai Peninsula, Egypt
Truck bomb by The Martyr Abdullah Azzam Brigades of the Al-Qaeda Organization
July 7, 2005: London, United Kingdom
Suicide bomber by Al-Qaeda
June 7, 2005: Madi village, Chitwan, Nepal.
Mines, Anti-vehicle by Maoists (Nepal)
May 13, 2005: Andijan, Uzbekistan
Civil disorder by an unknown group
May 4, 2005: Irbil, Iraq
Suicide bomber by Army of Ansar al-Sunna
April 8, 2005: Rukum district, Nepal
Assault General by Maoists (Nepal)
February 28, 2005: Hilla, Baquba, Mosul, and Baghdad, Iraq
Suicide vehicle by Insurgents, terrorists, militants in Iraq
November 20, 2004: Pandon Village, Kailali District, Nepal
Assault General by Maoists (Nepal)
October 25, 2004: Narithiwat Province, Thailand
Civil disorder
October 1, 2004: Nagaland and Assam States, India
Incendiary bomb small by United Liberation Front of Assam
September 14, 2004: Baghdad, Iraq
Car bomb by Tawhid and Jihad
September 1, 2004: Beslan, North Ossetia, Russia
Hostage taking by Chechen Rebels
August 24, 2004: Russia
Aircraft, Large 747/757/767/A-300 by Chechen Rebels
July 28, 2004: Baquba, Iraq
Suicide vehicle by Insurgents, terrorists, militants in Iraq
June 24, 2004: Baqubah, Ramadi, Fallujah, Mosul, Baghdad, Iraq
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle by Tawhid and Jihad
June 22, 2004: Ingushetia, Russia
Assault General by Chechen Rebels
April 21, 2004: Basra, Iraq
Car bomb by Ansar al Islam
March 11, 2004: Madrid, Spain
Command Initiated Devices by Al-Qaeda
March 2, 2004: Baghdad and Karbala, Iraq
Suicide bomber by Ansar al Islam
February 29, 2004: Mariveles, Philippines
Time Initiated Devices by Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
February 21, 2004: Lira, Uganda
Assault General by Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA)
February 11, 2004: Lira, Uganda
Assault General by Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA)
February 1, 2004: Arbil, Iraq
Suicide bomber by Army of Ansar al-Sunna
November 15, 2003: Istanbul, Turkey
Suicide vehicle by Al-Qaeda
August 29, 2003: Najaf, Iraq
Car bomb by Ansar al Islam
August 25, 2003: Mumbai, India
Car bomb by Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT)
July 4, 2003: Quetta, Pakistan
Suicide bomber by Lashkar e Jhangvi (LJ)
May 12, 2003: Znamenskoye, Chechnya, Russia
Suicide vehicle by Chechen Rebels
February 18, 2003: Daegu, South Korea
Incendiary bomb small
December 27, 2002: Grozny, Chechnya, Russia
Suicide vehicle by Chechen Rebels
October 23, 2002: Moscow, Russia
Hostage taking by Riyadus-Salikhin Reconnaissance and Sabotage Battalion of Chechen Martyrs (RSRSBCM)
October 12, 2002: Bali, Indonesia
Car bomb by Jemaah Islamiya (JI)
May 2, 2002: Bojayá, Chocó department, Atrato Medio region, Colombia
Incendiary bomb small by Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
February 27, 2002: New Godrah, Gujarat Province, India
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle by an unknown group
September 11, 2001: United States
Aircraft, Large 747/757/767/A-300 by Al-Qaeda
May 6, 2001: Caxito, Angola
Assault General by National Union for the Total Independence of Angola (UNITA)
September 8, 2000: Urumqi, Xinjiang, China
Truck bomb
July 2, 2000: Argun, Gudermes, Urus Martan, and Novogroznensky, Chechnya, Russia
Suicide vehicle by Chechen Rebels
October 21, 1999: Grozny, Chechnya, Russia
Rocket
September 13, 1999: Moscow, Russia
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle
September 9, 1999: Moscow, Russia
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle
September 4, 1999: Dagestan, Russia
Car bomb by Chechen Rebels
October 18, 1998: Antioquia Department, Colombia
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle by National Liberation Army (ELN)—Colombia
October 18, 1998: Machuca, Antioquia Department, Colombia
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle by National Liberation Army (ELN)—Colombia
August 7, 1998: Nairobi, Kenya
Truck bomb by Al-Qaeda
November 17, 1997: Luxor, Egypt
Assault General by Al Gama’a al Islamiyya (Islamic Group, IG)
July 24, 1996: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Package bomb
January 31, 1996: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Truck bomb by Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
January 9, 1996:
Kizlyar, Dagestan, Russia
Hostage taking
June 14, 1995: Budennovsk, Russia
Hostage taking by Chechen Rebels
April 19, 1995: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, United States
Truck bomb
October 23, 1994: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Suicide bomber
July 18, 1994: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Truck bomb by Hizballah (Party of God)
April 1, 1994: Rwanda
Unknown by Forces Democratiques de Liberation du Rwanda (FDLR)
March 17, 1993: Calcutta, India
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle by an unknown group
March 12, 1993: Bombay, India
Incendiary bomb small
December 6, 1992: Ayodhya, India
Demolition
August (day unknown), 1990: Kattankudy; Eravur, Sri Lanka
Ambush by Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
December 6, 1989: Bogota, Colombia
Truck bomb
November 11, 1989: Colombia
Aircraft, Medium
September 19, 1989: Niger
Aircraft, Large 747/757/767/A-300 by Democratic Revolution Committee for Zaire (CDRZ)
December 21, 1988: Lockerbie, Scotland, United Kingdom
Aircraft, Large 747/757/767/A-300 by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine–General Command (PFLP-GC)
April 23, 1988: Tripoli, Lebanon
Truck bomb
November 29, 1987: Indian Ocean
Aircraft, Large 747/757/767/A-300
July 14, 1987: Karachi, Pakistan
Car bomb
July (day unknown), 1987: India
Assault General by Sikh Extremists
April 21, 1987: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Car bomb by Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
July (day unknown), 1986: Sri Lanka
Time Initiated Devices by Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
March 11, 1986: Damascus, Syria
Truck bomb
November 6, 1985: Bogotá, Colombia
Hostage taking by 19th of April Movement (M-19)
September (day unknown), 1985: Malta
Hijacking by Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
August 20, 1985: Tripoli, Lebanon
Car bomb
August 17, 1985: Beirut, Lebanon
Car bomb by an unknown group
June 23, 1985: Atlantic Ocean, off Ireland Coast
Aircraft, Large 747/757/767/A-300 by Sikh Extremists
May 14, 1985: Anuradhapura, Sri Lanka
Assault General by Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
May 10, 1985: New Delhi and northern India
Package bomb
March 8, 1985: Beirut, Lebanon
Car bomb by an unknown group
June 5, 1984: Amritsar, India
Hostage taking
November 4, 1983: Tyre, Lebanon
Truck bomb by Hizballah (Party of God)
October 23, 1983: Beirut, Lebanon
Truck bomb by Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
October 23, 1983: Beirut, Lebanon
Truck bomb by Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
April 18, 1983: Beirut, Lebanon
Truck bomb by Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
November 13, 1982: Tyre, Lebanon
Car bomb
October 1, 1982: Tehran, Iran
Truck bomb
December 15, 1981: Beirut, Lebanon
Suicide vehicle
November 30, 1981: Damascus, Syria
Car bomb
October 1, 1981: Beirut, Lebanon
Car bomb
June 28, 1981: Tehran, Iran
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle
August 2, 1980: Bologna, Italy
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle
November 20, 1979: Mecca, Saudi Arabia
Hostage taking
August 13, 1978: Beirut, Lebanon
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle
October 6, 1976: Barbados, West Indies
Aircraft, Medium
January 1, 1976: Saudi Arabia
Aircraft, Medium by an unknown group
September 7, 1974: Greece
Aircraft, Medium by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine–General Command (PFLP-GC)
March 3, 1974: Paris, France
Mechanical sabotage by an unknown group
July 8, 1965: British Columbia, Canada
Aircraft, Medium by an unknown group
March 3, 1960: Havana, Cuba
Ship, Medium
July 22, 1946: Jerusalem, British Palestine Mandate
Truck bomb
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March 12, 2006: Baghdad, Iraq
Car bomb by Insurgents, terrorists, militants in Iraq
January 5, 2006: Ramadi, Iraq
Suicide bomber by Insurgents, terrorists, militants in Iraq
November 18, 2005: Khanaqin, Iraq
Suicide bomber by Insurgents, terrorists, militants in Iraq
November 9, 2005: Radisson SAS, Grand Hyatt, and Days Inn Hotels, Amman, Jordan
Suicide bomber by Al Qaeda in the Land of the Two Rivers
October 29, 2005: New Delhi, India
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle
October 13, 2005: Nalchik, Kabardino-Balkaria, Russia
Assault General by Yarmuk
September 29, 2005: Balad, Iraq
Suicide bomber by Insurgents, terrorists, militants in Iraq
September 14, 2005: Baghdad, Iraq
Suicide bomber by Al Qaeda in the Land of the Two Rivers
July 23, 2005: Sharm al-Sheikh, Sinai Peninsula, Egypt
Truck bomb by The Martyr Abdullah Azzam Brigades of the Al-Qaeda Organization
July 7, 2005: London, United Kingdom
Suicide bomber by Al-Qaeda
June 7, 2005: Madi village, Chitwan, Nepal.
Mines, Anti-vehicle by Maoists (Nepal)
May 13, 2005: Andijan, Uzbekistan
Civil disorder by an unknown group
May 4, 2005: Irbil, Iraq
Suicide bomber by Army of Ansar al-Sunna
April 8, 2005: Rukum district, Nepal
Assault General by Maoists (Nepal)
February 28, 2005: Hilla, Baquba, Mosul, and Baghdad, Iraq
Suicide vehicle by Insurgents, terrorists, militants in Iraq
November 20, 2004: Pandon Village, Kailali District, Nepal
Assault General by Maoists (Nepal)
October 25, 2004: Narithiwat Province, Thailand
Civil disorder
October 1, 2004: Nagaland and Assam States, India
Incendiary bomb small by United Liberation Front of Assam
September 14, 2004: Baghdad, Iraq
Car bomb by Tawhid and Jihad
September 1, 2004: Beslan, North Ossetia, Russia
Hostage taking by Chechen Rebels
August 24, 2004: Russia
Aircraft, Large 747/757/767/A-300 by Chechen Rebels
July 28, 2004: Baquba, Iraq
Suicide vehicle by Insurgents, terrorists, militants in Iraq
June 24, 2004: Baqubah, Ramadi, Fallujah, Mosul, Baghdad, Iraq
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle by Tawhid and Jihad
June 22, 2004: Ingushetia, Russia
Assault General by Chechen Rebels
April 21, 2004: Basra, Iraq
Car bomb by Ansar al Islam
March 11, 2004: Madrid, Spain
Command Initiated Devices by Al-Qaeda
March 2, 2004: Baghdad and Karbala, Iraq
Suicide bomber by Ansar al Islam
February 29, 2004: Mariveles, Philippines
Time Initiated Devices by Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
February 21, 2004: Lira, Uganda
Assault General by Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA)
February 11, 2004: Lira, Uganda
Assault General by Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA)
February 1, 2004: Arbil, Iraq
Suicide bomber by Army of Ansar al-Sunna
November 15, 2003: Istanbul, Turkey
Suicide vehicle by Al-Qaeda
August 29, 2003: Najaf, Iraq
Car bomb by Ansar al Islam
August 25, 2003: Mumbai, India
Car bomb by Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT)
July 4, 2003: Quetta, Pakistan
Suicide bomber by Lashkar e Jhangvi (LJ)
May 12, 2003: Znamenskoye, Chechnya, Russia
Suicide vehicle by Chechen Rebels
February 18, 2003: Daegu, South Korea
Incendiary bomb small
December 27, 2002: Grozny, Chechnya, Russia
Suicide vehicle by Chechen Rebels
October 23, 2002: Moscow, Russia
Hostage taking by Riyadus-Salikhin Reconnaissance and Sabotage Battalion of Chechen Martyrs (RSRSBCM)
October 12, 2002: Bali, Indonesia
Car bomb by Jemaah Islamiya (JI)
May 2, 2002: Bojayá, Chocó department, Atrato Medio region, Colombia
Incendiary bomb small by Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
February 27, 2002: New Godrah, Gujarat Province, India
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle by an unknown group
September 11, 2001: United States
Aircraft, Large 747/757/767/A-300 by Al-Qaeda
May 6, 2001: Caxito, Angola
Assault General by National Union for the Total Independence of Angola (UNITA)
September 8, 2000: Urumqi, Xinjiang, China
Truck bomb
July 2, 2000: Argun, Gudermes, Urus Martan, and Novogroznensky, Chechnya, Russia
Suicide vehicle by Chechen Rebels
October 21, 1999: Grozny, Chechnya, Russia
Rocket
September 13, 1999: Moscow, Russia
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle
September 9, 1999: Moscow, Russia
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle
September 4, 1999: Dagestan, Russia
Car bomb by Chechen Rebels
October 18, 1998: Antioquia Department, Colombia
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle by National Liberation Army (ELN)—Colombia
October 18, 1998: Machuca, Antioquia Department, Colombia
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle by National Liberation Army (ELN)—Colombia
August 7, 1998: Nairobi, Kenya
Truck bomb by Al-Qaeda
November 17, 1997: Luxor, Egypt
Assault General by Al Gama’a al Islamiyya (Islamic Group, IG)
July 24, 1996: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Package bomb
January 31, 1996: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Truck bomb by Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
January 9, 1996:
Kizlyar, Dagestan, Russia
Hostage taking
June 14, 1995: Budennovsk, Russia
Hostage taking by Chechen Rebels
April 19, 1995: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, United States
Truck bomb
October 23, 1994: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Suicide bomber
July 18, 1994: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Truck bomb by Hizballah (Party of God)
April 1, 1994: Rwanda
Unknown by Forces Democratiques de Liberation du Rwanda (FDLR)
March 17, 1993: Calcutta, India
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle by an unknown group
March 12, 1993: Bombay, India
Incendiary bomb small
December 6, 1992: Ayodhya, India
Demolition
August (day unknown), 1990: Kattankudy; Eravur, Sri Lanka
Ambush by Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
December 6, 1989: Bogota, Colombia
Truck bomb
November 11, 1989: Colombia
Aircraft, Medium
September 19, 1989: Niger
Aircraft, Large 747/757/767/A-300 by Democratic Revolution Committee for Zaire (CDRZ)
December 21, 1988: Lockerbie, Scotland, United Kingdom
Aircraft, Large 747/757/767/A-300 by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine–General Command (PFLP-GC)
April 23, 1988: Tripoli, Lebanon
Truck bomb
November 29, 1987: Indian Ocean
Aircraft, Large 747/757/767/A-300
July 14, 1987: Karachi, Pakistan
Car bomb
July (day unknown), 1987: India
Assault General by Sikh Extremists
April 21, 1987: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Car bomb by Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
July (day unknown), 1986: Sri Lanka
Time Initiated Devices by Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
March 11, 1986: Damascus, Syria
Truck bomb
November 6, 1985: Bogotá, Colombia
Hostage taking by 19th of April Movement (M-19)
September (day unknown), 1985: Malta
Hijacking by Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
August 20, 1985: Tripoli, Lebanon
Car bomb
August 17, 1985: Beirut, Lebanon
Car bomb by an unknown group
June 23, 1985: Atlantic Ocean, off Ireland Coast
Aircraft, Large 747/757/767/A-300 by Sikh Extremists
May 14, 1985: Anuradhapura, Sri Lanka
Assault General by Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
May 10, 1985: New Delhi and northern India
Package bomb
March 8, 1985: Beirut, Lebanon
Car bomb by an unknown group
June 5, 1984: Amritsar, India
Hostage taking
November 4, 1983: Tyre, Lebanon
Truck bomb by Hizballah (Party of God)
October 23, 1983: Beirut, Lebanon
Truck bomb by Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
October 23, 1983: Beirut, Lebanon
Truck bomb by Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
April 18, 1983: Beirut, Lebanon
Truck bomb by Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
November 13, 1982: Tyre, Lebanon
Car bomb
October 1, 1982: Tehran, Iran
Truck bomb
December 15, 1981: Beirut, Lebanon
Suicide vehicle
November 30, 1981: Damascus, Syria
Car bomb
October 1, 1981: Beirut, Lebanon
Car bomb
June 28, 1981: Tehran, Iran
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle
August 2, 1980: Bologna, Italy
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle
November 20, 1979: Mecca, Saudi Arabia
Hostage taking
August 13, 1978: Beirut, Lebanon
Incendiary bomb large/vehicle
October 6, 1976: Barbados, West Indies
Aircraft, Medium
January 1, 1976: Saudi Arabia
Aircraft, Medium by an unknown group
September 7, 1974: Greece
Aircraft, Medium by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine–General Command (PFLP-GC)
March 3, 1974: Paris, France
Mechanical sabotage by an unknown group
July 8, 1965: British Columbia, Canada
Aircraft, Medium by an unknown group
March 3, 1960: Havana, Cuba
Ship, Medium
July 22, 1946: Jerusalem, British Palestine Mandate
Truck bomb
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Re: ISLAM [jasonk]
[ In reply to ]
Wow that is a great link- good find!To bad the good info is restricted
I did a quick count from 2004 to current
of the 31 listed attacks 22 could easily be identified as Muslim, 5 were non muslim (LRA and Maoists) and 4 did not give enough info to link one way or another. Worst case is 2/3'd just by number of events. Then is you factor in the number killed I am sure it gets worse.
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I'm just a 10 cent rider on a $2,500.00 Bike
I did a quick count from 2004 to current
of the 31 listed attacks 22 could easily be identified as Muslim, 5 were non muslim (LRA and Maoists) and 4 did not give enough info to link one way or another. Worst case is 2/3'd just by number of events. Then is you factor in the number killed I am sure it gets worse.
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I'm just a 10 cent rider on a $2,500.00 Bike
Re: ISLAM [hasbeenswimmer]
[ In reply to ]
Notice how almost all the Muslim terrorist attacks in the recent few years are directly due to our invasion of Iraq.
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Re: ISLAM [jhc]
[ In reply to ]
Not to sure what that has to do with the thread? Nice try at a derail though.
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I'm just a 10 cent rider on a $2,500.00 Bike
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I'm just a 10 cent rider on a $2,500.00 Bike
Re: ISLAM [jhc]
[ In reply to ]
Notice how almost all the Muslim terrorist attacks in the recent few years are directly due to our invasion of Iraq.
Now why can't anyone in the Bush administration figure this out. It only took you a few minutes so I would have hoped the entire administration could have figured this out in the last 3 years.
As they say in sports, maybe next year.
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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008
Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008
Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008
Now why can't anyone in the Bush administration figure this out. It only took you a few minutes so I would have hoped the entire administration could have figured this out in the last 3 years.
As they say in sports, maybe next year.
__________________________________________________
You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008
Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008
Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008
Re: ISLAM [hasbeenswimmer]
[ In reply to ]
It's pretty obvious if you stop to think about it.
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Re: ISLAM [jhc]
[ In reply to ]
No not really I don't see it at all.
We were not in Iraq when on 9/11/2001 or the first attack on the WTC or the Cole or the Kobar towers or the US Embassy........
I guess the only conclusion that could be drawn is that it is a good thing we are in Iraq so as to keep these nut jobs out of the US and other countries.
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I'm just a 10 cent rider on a $2,500.00 Bike
We were not in Iraq when on 9/11/2001 or the first attack on the WTC or the Cole or the Kobar towers or the US Embassy........
I guess the only conclusion that could be drawn is that it is a good thing we are in Iraq so as to keep these nut jobs out of the US and other countries.
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I'm just a 10 cent rider on a $2,500.00 Bike
Re: ISLAM [hasbeenswimmer]
[ In reply to ]
We were not in Iraq when on 9/11/2001 or the first attack on the WTC or the Cole or the Kobar towers or the US Embassy........
We weren't there because Iraq had nothing to do with these events.
__________________________________________________
You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008
Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008
Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008
We weren't there because Iraq had nothing to do with these events.
__________________________________________________
You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008
Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008
Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008
Re: ISLAM [hasbeenswimmer]
[ In reply to ]
Sorry about the combative tone but in TLR I figure it bounces off anyway.
I just feel that some topics are to emotive and in today's environment too dangerous to shoot the breeze about. I couldn't care less if people who've never been near a wheel tunnel want to debate the aero advantages of dimpled wheels but when it comes to stoking what is already a fairly loaded anti-muslim environment I want to know that people are at least knowledgeable. If that's you then again I apologise but a lot of what you read on this board and others is racism thinly disguised as legitimate comment on "characteristics of Islam".
While I'm at it the PLO (by my limited understanding) is a political organisation representing the Palestinian people which it defines itself geographicaly. While the majority of its members may be Muslim I doon't think you could class it as 'Muslim' as it represents some Christians and ironically some Jews.
Also whether or not a group which acts in the name of Islam is in fact Muslim must also be up for debate. Muslim representatives in the UK are constantly denouncing the actions of the groups you name as completely inconsistent with the basiic tenets of the faith. Again I'm not able to say whether they're right to assert that but that's where the arrgument about the West's actions tie in.
If you are an anti-US and anti-Western terrorrist that may be enough to recruit x like minded individuals. If you (for the sake of argument) distort your religion to REQUIRE that your views be transforrmed into a terrorist campaign then you'll probably recruit a few more. If the West play into your hands by launching a global war of dubious legitimacy that can be characterised (by you and I'm talking about propogannda here) as 'anti-Muslim' then to a large extent they have themselves to blame for increasing the appeal of your organisation in certain people's minds.
"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
I just feel that some topics are to emotive and in today's environment too dangerous to shoot the breeze about. I couldn't care less if people who've never been near a wheel tunnel want to debate the aero advantages of dimpled wheels but when it comes to stoking what is already a fairly loaded anti-muslim environment I want to know that people are at least knowledgeable. If that's you then again I apologise but a lot of what you read on this board and others is racism thinly disguised as legitimate comment on "characteristics of Islam".
While I'm at it the PLO (by my limited understanding) is a political organisation representing the Palestinian people which it defines itself geographicaly. While the majority of its members may be Muslim I doon't think you could class it as 'Muslim' as it represents some Christians and ironically some Jews.
Also whether or not a group which acts in the name of Islam is in fact Muslim must also be up for debate. Muslim representatives in the UK are constantly denouncing the actions of the groups you name as completely inconsistent with the basiic tenets of the faith. Again I'm not able to say whether they're right to assert that but that's where the arrgument about the West's actions tie in.
If you are an anti-US and anti-Western terrorrist that may be enough to recruit x like minded individuals. If you (for the sake of argument) distort your religion to REQUIRE that your views be transforrmed into a terrorist campaign then you'll probably recruit a few more. If the West play into your hands by launching a global war of dubious legitimacy that can be characterised (by you and I'm talking about propogannda here) as 'anti-Muslim' then to a large extent they have themselves to blame for increasing the appeal of your organisation in certain people's minds.
"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
Re: ISLAM [hasbeenswimmer]
[ In reply to ]
We were not in Iraq when on 9/11/2001 or the first attack on the WTC or the Cole or the Kobar towers or the US Embassy........
Yeah, and those incidents don't really comprise "nearly all" the terrorist attacks that have happened worldwide in that period of time either. The reason that a majority of attacks since 2004 have been perpetrated by Muslims is because we are occupying a Muslim country. Remove Iraq from the equation, and Muslims account for a minority of recent attacks.
None of this is meant to take away from the seriousness of Islamic terrorism, but when people make comments like "nearly all terrorists are Muslims", especially when certain people of a marsupial persuasion have proven to be rabidly anti-Muslim to a ridiculous degree, there will be others that call them on it.
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Yeah, and those incidents don't really comprise "nearly all" the terrorist attacks that have happened worldwide in that period of time either. The reason that a majority of attacks since 2004 have been perpetrated by Muslims is because we are occupying a Muslim country. Remove Iraq from the equation, and Muslims account for a minority of recent attacks.
None of this is meant to take away from the seriousness of Islamic terrorism, but when people make comments like "nearly all terrorists are Muslims", especially when certain people of a marsupial persuasion have proven to be rabidly anti-Muslim to a ridiculous degree, there will be others that call them on it.
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Re: ISLAM [hasbeenswimmer]
[ In reply to ]
"I took a look at the list you supplied and the only one on the list that I even have remote knowledge of the Basque movement"
I think that's a function of what is important to the U.S. more than a true indication of the nature of the other groups at work. Quite frankly, we don't care too much about Turkey or Sri Lanka. We have had our military in the Middle East for a long time, and we have strong ties to Israel and a large Jewish population, all of which means that the things that go on in the Middle East get a lot of coverage. Add to that the obvious al Qaeda and Iraq War factors and it's not surprising that that's the coverage you see.
"But comparing any one of the groups you listed to any big time Muslim extremist group is like comparing a firecracker to a daisy cutter bomb"
I'm not sure what you mean by "big time." certainly you could probably name a few Islamic groups by name. However, lots of people could certainly list the Irish Republican Army, or the FARC (kidnap people in Colombia), or the ETA (Basques) or the Tamil Tigers (invented the suicide bomber). The fact that we hear about Hamas or al Qaeda doesn't necessarily mean they are more "big time", just better publicized.
"n the last 5-10 years I bet that if you totaled all the various bombings and attacks from Muslim groups you would come up with 10,000 + dead due to Muslim terrorism,"
I think you overestimate the casualties. In 2003, the last year I could find an unclass version of the State Depts "Patterns of Global Terrorism", there were 625 deaths from terrorist incidents.
Like i said, there's no argument as to whether or not the majority of terrorism is coming from Muslim Extremists right now. However, it doesn't take much to find a whole mess of other groups operating around the world. It doesn't take much to find that lots of groups that you might consider "Islamic" are politically motivated, not religiously motivated. It also doesn't take much work to find Muslims denouncing terrorism.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
I think that's a function of what is important to the U.S. more than a true indication of the nature of the other groups at work. Quite frankly, we don't care too much about Turkey or Sri Lanka. We have had our military in the Middle East for a long time, and we have strong ties to Israel and a large Jewish population, all of which means that the things that go on in the Middle East get a lot of coverage. Add to that the obvious al Qaeda and Iraq War factors and it's not surprising that that's the coverage you see.
"But comparing any one of the groups you listed to any big time Muslim extremist group is like comparing a firecracker to a daisy cutter bomb"
I'm not sure what you mean by "big time." certainly you could probably name a few Islamic groups by name. However, lots of people could certainly list the Irish Republican Army, or the FARC (kidnap people in Colombia), or the ETA (Basques) or the Tamil Tigers (invented the suicide bomber). The fact that we hear about Hamas or al Qaeda doesn't necessarily mean they are more "big time", just better publicized.
"n the last 5-10 years I bet that if you totaled all the various bombings and attacks from Muslim groups you would come up with 10,000 + dead due to Muslim terrorism,"
I think you overestimate the casualties. In 2003, the last year I could find an unclass version of the State Depts "Patterns of Global Terrorism", there were 625 deaths from terrorist incidents.
Like i said, there's no argument as to whether or not the majority of terrorism is coming from Muslim Extremists right now. However, it doesn't take much to find a whole mess of other groups operating around the world. It doesn't take much to find that lots of groups that you might consider "Islamic" are politically motivated, not religiously motivated. It also doesn't take much work to find Muslims denouncing terrorism.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
"No Roo, I wouldn't argue with the statement that most terrorism is currently being perpetrated by Muslims. The way you know that is because I've said it many times in my own posts. Maybe if you read up on stuff instead of assuming you know what's going on without any evidence, you wouldn't hold such a messed up view of the world. "
Hey apologies for the late reply. I've been swamped though not doing anything near as important or crucial as running the US Navy. -:)
Well if you've said it many times in your postings, for sure they weren't the ones to me. I didn't see them, only the first one on this thread hence my comment and the follow up here claiming that you did so many-many times. Or maybe you're stretching it a little ...again?
As for your assumption I don't read and therefore hold up such a big messed up view .... well it's just slowguy inuendo isn't it? Typically there's nothing to back up another shoot from the hip comment.
Back on track, the interesting thing about all of George W's speeches (just made another) whether they be addressed to the public in general or addressing the armed forces and their families is that they do ring honest. Obviously Iraq being his political archillies heel he has done his best to explain it. Basically the Iraq justification goes on the premise that despite the bad intelligence interpretation about the nukes that weren't there, America and the world are better and safer off without Sadam. The Sadam that has used WMDs pretty often, attacked the Middle Eastern neighbours (plural), sponsored and supported terrorist groups and was a threat to USA and the West. The same Saddam who triggered the invasion through his non compliance with inspectors.
But to me of more importance are his arguments for staying and winning the fight. To me the benefit of democratisation for the Iraqi people is noble but less significant than not allowing the insurgents and terrorist to win and take over Iraq to make it the home base for anti US and Western countries operations. Also it will change the flavour of the whole Middle Eastern situation to the the kind of region which the fundamentalists want. Very bad for us in uncountable ways. For one thing imagine a West hating trio of Iran, Iraq and Palestine all nice and united with that bad Muslim fueled attitude bent on exacting Jihad wherever and whenever they can.
But the one thing even more crucial that George W avoids pointing out Tony Blair has said it recently in a short concise although subtle manner. Yes Bush and the administration know it only too full well but need to be politically correct.
Tony Blair - "It is in fact a war between civilisations."
It's subtle because Blair doesn't say out the word Islam outright. But which other civilisation is he talking about? There is really no other viable answer is there?
For those doubters still mumbling the rights of the Muslim people and sensitivities we should afford them, even as they plot and plunder ask yourself this -
"Which civilisation do you belong to? Which civilization is barbaric, screwed up and motivated by mindless fervour?"
The EVIDENCE is all around from the behaviours and practices of individuals to those at the governmental levels. By right people with religious fervour with mindless attitudes to kill off other innocent people don't deserve any consideration ...whatsoever. The more individuals supposedly who are selflessly and broad mindedly willing to concede the position of those on that side are really burying their heads in the sand leaving their asses exposed awaiting a stick of dynamite to be shoved where the sun don't shine. Such folk may actually enjoy the sensation right up to the second the dynamite blows them up ass first. But seriously such individuals in our midst far from being the righteous, broad minded , compromising dudes (no compromising with religious fervoured crazies) actually are selfishly creating more vulnerability to that kind of danger for our own.
Hey apologies for the late reply. I've been swamped though not doing anything near as important or crucial as running the US Navy. -:)
Well if you've said it many times in your postings, for sure they weren't the ones to me. I didn't see them, only the first one on this thread hence my comment and the follow up here claiming that you did so many-many times. Or maybe you're stretching it a little ...again?
As for your assumption I don't read and therefore hold up such a big messed up view .... well it's just slowguy inuendo isn't it? Typically there's nothing to back up another shoot from the hip comment.
Back on track, the interesting thing about all of George W's speeches (just made another) whether they be addressed to the public in general or addressing the armed forces and their families is that they do ring honest. Obviously Iraq being his political archillies heel he has done his best to explain it. Basically the Iraq justification goes on the premise that despite the bad intelligence interpretation about the nukes that weren't there, America and the world are better and safer off without Sadam. The Sadam that has used WMDs pretty often, attacked the Middle Eastern neighbours (plural), sponsored and supported terrorist groups and was a threat to USA and the West. The same Saddam who triggered the invasion through his non compliance with inspectors.
But to me of more importance are his arguments for staying and winning the fight. To me the benefit of democratisation for the Iraqi people is noble but less significant than not allowing the insurgents and terrorist to win and take over Iraq to make it the home base for anti US and Western countries operations. Also it will change the flavour of the whole Middle Eastern situation to the the kind of region which the fundamentalists want. Very bad for us in uncountable ways. For one thing imagine a West hating trio of Iran, Iraq and Palestine all nice and united with that bad Muslim fueled attitude bent on exacting Jihad wherever and whenever they can.
But the one thing even more crucial that George W avoids pointing out Tony Blair has said it recently in a short concise although subtle manner. Yes Bush and the administration know it only too full well but need to be politically correct.
Tony Blair - "It is in fact a war between civilisations."
It's subtle because Blair doesn't say out the word Islam outright. But which other civilisation is he talking about? There is really no other viable answer is there?
For those doubters still mumbling the rights of the Muslim people and sensitivities we should afford them, even as they plot and plunder ask yourself this -
"Which civilisation do you belong to? Which civilization is barbaric, screwed up and motivated by mindless fervour?"
The EVIDENCE is all around from the behaviours and practices of individuals to those at the governmental levels. By right people with religious fervour with mindless attitudes to kill off other innocent people don't deserve any consideration ...whatsoever. The more individuals supposedly who are selflessly and broad mindedly willing to concede the position of those on that side are really burying their heads in the sand leaving their asses exposed awaiting a stick of dynamite to be shoved where the sun don't shine. Such folk may actually enjoy the sensation right up to the second the dynamite blows them up ass first. But seriously such individuals in our midst far from being the righteous, broad minded , compromising dudes (no compromising with religious fervoured crazies) actually are selfishly creating more vulnerability to that kind of danger for our own.