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Re: US Army General: New Recruits Not Strong Enough to Throw Grenades [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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I believe he’s written another as well. I’ll put it on the list for my next year.

I think he’s right about conditioning out the reluctance to kill, and we haven’t installed any of the safety switches we try to put in Soldiers.

******************************
If I don't, who will? -Me
It's like being bipolar in opinion is a requirement around here. -TripleThreat
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Re: US Army General: New Recruits Not Strong Enough to Throw Grenades [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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jmh wrote:
Good book. I saw some of the draft version of it in IOC in 1994. The CO of the IOC at the time was assisting LtCol Grossman with a review and he shared some of it with our class. I purchased the book when it came out a few years later.

Ones of its themes- that we can condition out the reluctance to kill- might be relevant to the other thread on the school shootings.

I've read that. And S.L.A. Marshall's widely discredited work on not many folks firing their weapons with purpose in combat. My experience is NOT turning the young American Soldier "on" in terms of killing but/rather turning him "off" or, rather controlling his natural inclination to shoot the fuck out of shit. Which can be entirely counterproductive in COIN.

Steve
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Re: US Army General: New Recruits Not Strong Enough to Throw Grenades [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
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Steve Hawley wrote:
jmh wrote:
Good book. I saw some of the draft version of it in IOC in 1994. The CO of the IOC at the time was assisting LtCol Grossman with a review and he shared some of it with our class. I purchased the book when it came out a few years later.

Ones of its themes- that we can condition out the reluctance to kill- might be relevant to the other thread on the school shootings.


I've read that. And S.L.A. Marshall's widely discredited work on not many folks firing their weapons with purpose in combat. My experience is NOT turning the young American Soldier "on" in terms of killing but/rather turning him "off" or, rather controlling his natural inclination to shoot the fuck out of shit. Which can be entirely counterproductive in COIN.

David Hackworth, in "About Face," was pretty dismissive of S.L.A. Marshall and his work as well. I've also read other treatises that back your contention up, for what it's worth.

"Out G the G," is what I remember most from "About Face," btw.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: US Army General: New Recruits Not Strong Enough to Throw Grenades [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Hackworth

what a piece of work. i remember as battalion commander some of my company commanders were enamored of him (based on his "About Face" bullshit). I made it clear to them if they ever falsified data or weapons accountability I'd fire them on the spot.

He came out and watched our culminating graduation exercise for young infantry Soldiers. A all night 12 mile roadmarch that ends with a torch-lit ceremony. It's modeled roughly on the USMC crucible and the IDF ceremony at Masada. Hackworth spoke glowingly of what we were up to that night/morning. Then published a scathing article about how INF OSUT was shit because drill sergeants could no longer hit trainees or put them in wall lockers and roll them down hills, etc.

Not a fan.

Steve
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Re: US Army General: New Recruits Not Strong Enough to Throw Grenades [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
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Steve Hawley wrote:
Hackworth

what a piece of work. i remember as battalion commander some of my company commanders were enamored of him (based on his "About Face" bullshit). I made it clear to them if they ever falsified data or weapons accountability I'd fire them on the spot.

He came out and watched our culminating graduation exercise for young infantry Soldiers. A all night 12 mile roadmarch that ends with a torch-lit ceremony. It's modeled roughly on the USMC crucible and the IDF ceremony at Masada. Hackworth spoke glowingly of what we were up to that night/morning. Then published a scathing article about how INF OSUT was shit because drill sergeants could no longer hit trainees or put them in wall lockers and roll them down hills, etc.

Not a fan.

I served with a Marine Corps infantry officer out in San Diego who loved "About Face" and worshiped the ground Hackworth walked on. Right up until he met him and then spent some time with him. That's all I'll say about that.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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