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Re: Probation [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think it's a whether it works or not thing. Either you did a crime and deserve prison time or you didn't do a crime and are free.

In a perfect world felons would actually dislike being there and stop committing crimes, but that just isn't the case. The recidivism rate is to high to say any rehab is working at all. Time to work on conditions instead of rehab measures?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
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Re: Probation [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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Among the possible reasons (and I have not researched this particular case at all so some of these may or may not apply in this case)

Article only says she narrated, so her specific charges may be less

Been in jail a year without bond - any sentence will most likely include time served and if she doesn't face much more than that no need for a trial

Speedy trial considerations

Cooperating witness possibility

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Probation [Nova] [ In reply to ]
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Nova wrote:
Seriously it's hard to tell. OJ got off. Casey Anthony got off. George Zimmerman got off. Who the heck knows what a jury thinks.

I have heard of the case and have seen the tape. A jury will supposedly be seeing it for the first time. Do they see the whole tape? Just snippets? ANY of it? Is what they are seeing backed up with a chronology of events and who is who?

Personally, with what I know, lock them up. A jury might not see it that way.

the tricky part is that you need, as a juror, to find them guilty of the specific crime(s) in question to the evidentiary standard of the court in question. if the question is, "are they bad people?" or "did they do something horrible?" it's a no-brainer.

but sometimes even obviously shitty, even obviously criminal, people get found not guilty, rightly, of the specific crimes in question.

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Re: Probation [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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Cook County jails and prisons have been overpopulated for years. At some point, you have to decide which offenses will get jail time, and which won't, because you can't send everyone who's convicted to prison.


I have a hard time imagining that this offense isn't a lot worse than what a lot of other inmates are doing time for. I sure hope not, anyway. If Cook Count's jails and prisons are overflowing with people who committed worse crimes than this, we have very serious problems. Nuke it from orbit type problems.









"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Probation [Nova] [ In reply to ]
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Nova wrote:
I don't think it's a whether it works or not thing. Either you did a crime and deserve prison time or you didn't do a crime and are free.

In a perfect world felons would actually dislike being there and stop committing crimes, but that just isn't the case. The recidivism rate is to high to say any rehab is working at all. Time to work on conditions instead of rehab measures?

First, I do not believe there are many, if any, who "like" being in prison. The recidivism rate has to do with conditions outside the prison, not inside. Second, there are countless studies showing prison is a deterrent. Certainly evidence shows it is not enough of a deterrent to stop a majority of crimes, but it is a deterrent nonetheless. Third, it is virtually impossible to turn a "bad person" into a "good person." If someone has an utter disregard for life, there is little you can do to change that. Further, if they come from an environment that creates a cycle of poverty and crime, returning them to that environment is likely to "undo" anything prison can do. Fourth, "rehabilitation" is only one of the five purposes of incarceration. It isn't even first on the list. So, prison still serves its purposes even with a low rate of rehab.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

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Re: Probation [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
Nova wrote:
I don't think it's a whether it works or not thing. Either you did a crime and deserve prison time or you didn't do a crime and are free.

In a perfect world felons would actually dislike being there and stop committing crimes, but that just isn't the case. The recidivism rate is to high to say any rehab is working at all. Time to work on conditions instead of rehab measures?


First, I do not believe there are many, if any, who "like" being in prison. The recidivism rate has to do with conditions outside the prison, not inside. Second, there are countless studies showing prison is a deterrent. Certainly evidence shows it is not enough of a deterrent to stop a majority of crimes, but it is a deterrent nonetheless. Third, it is virtually impossible to turn a "bad person" into a "good person." If someone has an utter disregard for life, there is little you can do to change that. Further, if they come from an environment that creates a cycle of poverty and crime, returning them to that environment is likely to "undo" anything prison can do. Fourth, "rehabilitation" is only one of the five purposes of incarceration. It isn't even first on the list. So, prison still serves its purposes even with a low rate of rehab.

I actually think we are saying the same thing. I agree with your assessment.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
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Re: Probation [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
Among the possible reasons (and I have not researched this particular case at all so some of these may or may not apply in this case)

Article only says she narrated, so her specific charges may be less

Been in jail a year without bond - any sentence will most likely include time served and if she doesn't face much more than that no need for a trial

Speedy trial considerations

Cooperating witness possibility

I was going to point that out as well. She did do a year, so I'm sure that was factored in to her sentence. She might also have had no previous criminal history, which also would have been taken into account.
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Re: Probation [zed707] [ In reply to ]
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Dude.

I mean, I get it. But no prior record is the kind of thing that should get you probation for a shoplifting charge. This? Really?








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Probation [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
Dude.

I mean, I get it. But no prior record is the kind of thing that should get you probation for a shoplifting charge. This? Really?

Yes, really. Prior record is definitely considered for felony charges. You don't think somebody with multiple felony convictions should be sentenced differently than someone with none? It makes sense to me that it is taken into consideration.
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Re: Probation [zed707] [ In reply to ]
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One's record should certainly factor into sentencing. Not to the point that this particular heinous felony should result in probation. It's not a binary thing, right?








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Probation [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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"Hey, it's her first time abducting and torturing a disabled person. First offenses shouldn't result in hard jail time."








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Probation [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
"Hey, it's her first time abducting and torturing a disabled person. First offenses shouldn't result in hard jail time."

But she didn't actually DO any of the torturing. She was behind the camera.

You're thinking what should happen, not what they can convict her of and then the appropriate sentence for said crime.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
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Re: Probation [Nova] [ In reply to ]
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Uh huh.

Again, seriously? You really don't think she's "technically" guilty of any crimes?

We live in a system in which getaway drivers can be convicted of murder as an accessory to the crime. This chick "only" livestreamed the abduction and torture of a disabled guy, so I'm supposed to believe that our criminal justice system can't find her accountable in any meaningful way?

Please, bitch.








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Probation [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
Uh huh.

Again, seriously? You really don't think she's "technically" guilty of any crimes?

We live in a system in which getaway drivers can be convicted of murder as an accessory to the crime. This chick "only" livestreamed the abduction and torture of a disabled guy, so I'm supposed to believe that our criminal justice system can't find her accountable in any meaningful way?

Please, bitch.

If Casey Anthony can get off, than anyone can.

I'm not saying she shouldn't be prosecuted, I'm just saying we don't know all the facts...

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
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