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Re: No Posts on the UN's Attempt to Tell the US Where to Put it's Embassy [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
Also, Jerusalem, by right of war -- which the various Arab belligerents started -- is Israel's to do with as it pleases.
By right of war? There are plenty of examples where various countries would have liked the results of a war to have been accepted by other countries. Sometimes the outcomes are accepted (Poland in 1945), and sometimes they're not (Poland in 1939).

The first hostile act of the 1967 war was the Israeli air attack on the Egyptian air force. While the Israelis certainly felt threatened by the actions of the surrounding Arab countries leading up to June 5, 1967, it's not certain that the Arabs would have launched a first attack. The Israeli territorial gains from that war were not recognized by the UN security council (including the US and Canada), much less the Arab countries. Israel eventually decided to give the Sinai back to Egypt and to pull their troops from the Gaza strip. I can visualize some sort of future agreement between Syria and Israel where Israel is able to pull their troops from the Golan Heights.

However, the West Bank, and especially Jerusalem, is an impossible situation. Everything including religion, national security, national pride, economics, and displaced populations needs to be accommodated. Good luck with that.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: No Posts on the UN's Attempt to Tell the US Where to Put it's Embassy [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
efernand wrote:
Quote:
You do realize there are existing agreements in place, right?


What? The US agreed to only put our embassies where the UN says it's ok to?


Lets put it this way - the USA is now disqualified itself as a legitimate broker in the peace process no matter how much Trump rants and raves about the UN doing it his way.


What "peace process" is that, pray tell?


Its been a failure because of religious fanaticism on both sides. But Trump has made an unlikely peace even more unlikely.


Have Justin fly over and solve it? Why does the US have to always be the lead on this shit? Why can't Canada step up?


My point is that Trump is not taking "the lead" at all. Quite the contrary. He tried being the bully boy making threats and its backfired on him. Explained in this youtube. I agree with these two guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NVsYl02tQo


Looks to me like the Orange-Haired Wonder was just obeying the 1995 law requiring the US to relocate its embassy to Jerusalem. So, in a sense, you can say that he's the most law-abiding president in recent memory, right? ;-)

The Palestinians are going to throw periodic temper tantrums as the need suits them. If it wasn't a Jerusalem embassy move it would have been some other reason to engage in this or that intifada. What are they up to now? About 20 of them?

Even the other Arab nations are getting tired of their act, and at least the Saudis -- who face a hegemonic Iran and its ballistic missiles it's giving to those Houthi rebels in Yemen -- are willing to make behind-the-scenes kissy face with the Israelis if it helps them stave off the Persians, who are still the real threat in the Middle East and Southwest Asia.

And there was a good reason why no presidents since then carried through on that (US) law. They knew it would derail the peace process and incite violence. But Trump doesn't really understand international diplomacy, and when the US needs other countries' support for other international reasons, like, say, the DPRK, we may find ourselves rueing this decision.

Earlier today, emboldened by the UN vote against the US, Palestinian President Abbas said the Palestinians would not accept any US peace proposals. Jared Kushner has been working on one for months and it was expected to be launched in early 2018.

See:
http://www.bbc.com/...middle-east-42453530

Meanwhile protests and violence continue to escalate in the West Bank and Gaza.

What exactly did Trump achieve here?
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Re: No Posts on the UN's Attempt to Tell the US Where to Put it's Embassy [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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This is the one thing that I like about trump

He has made everyone put their money where their mouths are.

An abstention is a vote against so he is absolutely correct that the US gives money to people happy to take it but who are just contemptuous of the US.

I think this was quite clever. Bit sledge hammer to crack a nut but he has made his point clearly
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Re: No Posts on the UN's Attempt to Tell the US Where to Put it's Embassy [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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A list of all the countries who voted with us and are now part of to coalition, and they get to come to our party!!! So much WINNING!!!!!!



Israel, Guatemala, Honduras, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Marshall Islands and Togo.
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Re: No Posts on the UN's Attempt to Tell the US Where to Put it's Embassy [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
An abstention is a vote against so he is absolutely correct that the US gives money to people happy to take it but who are just contemptuous of the US.

Yeah, because disagreeing with something Pres Trump did must mean those countries hold the US in contempt.

Seriously?

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: No Posts on the UN's Attempt to Tell the US Where to Put it's Embassy [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Andrewmc wrote:
An abstention is a vote against so he is absolutely correct that the US gives money to people happy to take it but who are just contemptuous of the US.

Even if it's true that "an abstention is a vote against" (could equally be argued that it's a vote for), then a country disagreeing with this one action is an indicator of their contempt for the US?
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Re: No Posts on the UN's Attempt to Tell the US Where to Put it's Embassy [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
efernand wrote:
Quote:
You do realize there are existing agreements in place, right?


What? The US agreed to only put our embassies where the UN says it's ok to?


Lets put it this way - the USA is now disqualified itself as a legitimate broker in the peace process no matter how much Trump rants and raves about the UN doing it his way.


What "peace process" is that, pray tell?


Its been a failure because of religious fanaticism on both sides. But Trump has made an unlikely peace even more unlikely.


Have Justin fly over and solve it? Why does the US have to always be the lead on this shit? Why can't Canada step up?

My point is that Trump is not taking "the lead" at all. Quite the contrary. He tried being the bully boy making threats and its backfired on him. Explained in this youtube. I agree with these two guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NVsYl02tQo

You didn't answer my question.
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Re: No Posts on the UN's Attempt to Tell the US Where to Put it's Embassy [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
efernand wrote:
Quote:
You do realize there are existing agreements in place, right?


What? The US agreed to only put our embassies where the UN says it's ok to?


Lets put it this way - the USA is now disqualified itself as a legitimate broker in the peace process no matter how much Trump rants and raves about the UN doing it his way.


What "peace process" is that, pray tell?


Its been a failure because of religious fanaticism on both sides. But Trump has made an unlikely peace even more unlikely.


Have Justin fly over and solve it? Why does the US have to always be the lead on this shit? Why can't Canada step up?

My point is that Trump is not taking "the lead" at all. Quite the contrary. He tried being the bully boy making threats and its backfired on him. Explained in this youtube. I agree with these two guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NVsYl02tQo

You didn't answer my question.

We are smart enough to stay out of it. And of course we don't have the financial or military might that the US does. But of course, you knew all that.

===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)
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Re: No Posts on the UN's Attempt to Tell the US Where to Put it's Embassy [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
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CaptainCanada wrote:
windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
efernand wrote:
Quote:
You do realize there are existing agreements in place, right?


What? The US agreed to only put our embassies where the UN says it's ok to?


Lets put it this way - the USA is now disqualified itself as a legitimate broker in the peace process no matter how much Trump rants and raves about the UN doing it his way.


What "peace process" is that, pray tell?


Its been a failure because of religious fanaticism on both sides. But Trump has made an unlikely peace even more unlikely.


Have Justin fly over and solve it? Why does the US have to always be the lead on this shit? Why can't Canada step up?

My point is that Trump is not taking "the lead" at all. Quite the contrary. He tried being the bully boy making threats and its backfired on him. Explained in this youtube. I agree with these two guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NVsYl02tQo

You didn't answer my question.

We are smart enough to stay out of it. And of course we don't have the financial or military might that the US does. But of course, you knew all that.

I did, CG not so much, but then again he thinks beating the wives of political dissidents is cool
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Re: No Posts on the UN's Attempt to Tell the US Where to Put it's Embassy [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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Here's why I give zero f*cks about what the UN says when it comes to Israel:



Bunch of Jew-hating anti-Semites, is all. They just dress up their anti-Semitism in fancy diplospeak that fools only the truly credulous.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: No Posts on the UN's Attempt to Tell the US Where to Put it's Embassy [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
Here's why I give zero f*cks about what the UN says when it comes to Israel:



Bunch of Jew-hating anti-Semites, is all. They just dress up their anti-Semitism in fancy diplospeak that fools only the truly credulous.

You have got to be kidding.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: No Posts on the UN's Attempt to Tell the US Where to Put it's Embassy [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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Why does the US have to always be the lead on this shit?


The U.S doesn't have to be on the lead on this shit, the U.S chooses to take the lead and get involved because it is in their security interests. The U.S isn't doing anyone a favor other than themselves and Israel.


Why can't Canada step up?


Because it is none of our business and we decided to let independent countries decide their own future. We don't feel a need to tell others how to live. We live in peace and you are always at or close to war so maybe you could learn a few things.
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