I just got back from Moscow. The metro there is a revelation. Runs constantly (never have to wait more than about 2mins on a platform), goes all over the city (never have to walk more than 4 or 5 blocks to find a station), is basically clean, no crime, and cheap as dirt (about $0.50 to ride as far as you want to go). Of course, it's heavily government subsidized, but that's a separate issue.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I loved having rail transport when we lived in Europe. We could walk from our house to the station, get on a nice clean train, and in less time than it would take to drive you'd be in London, Paris, Frankfurt, Rome, etc. Then it was public transport all over the city (with an occasional cab ride). Those were the days.......

Of course, the fares didn't cover the costs associated with keeping the trains running. But that's how people there wanted their tax money spent. Different cultures, population density, and general expectations, but it sure was nice.

---

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

I am not sure you understand how mass transit works...........

High speed rail serves Europe, Japan, China and elsewhere pretty well.

We Americans love our cars. Rail is for other people.

Hence, my observation about all you Eurotrash types (hahaha!) having figured it all out. What's for sure, is that we haven't. One look at California's high speed rail project will tell you everything you need to know about where we are on the learning curve. ;-)

---

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

You have never ridden the Long Island Rail Road have you? 400k passengers a day. I don't know if its profitable, but its necessary if you work in NY city and live outside the city.

I've ridden it. And the Acela and several other commuter rail lines as well as Amtrak cross-country. We suck at passenger rail, for a variety of reasons. But the technology, at heart, is still rooted in the 19th century. You can't just up and move rail lines and stations and re-lay them where needed, though I'm not sure that should even be a requirement to justify rail (let alone high-speed rail... and in the U.S., outside of that Rhode Island and Massachusetts 28-mile-long stretch, where speeds can hit 150 mph, rail is largely limited to, at best, 110 mph).

Rail takes a comprehensive commitment on all fronts, public and private, which we don't have. And like another poster observed, we love our cars and aren't going to easily give them up, absent the feds coming in and forcibly taking them away, I suppose.

---

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Oh, I agree. What I'm saying is that we're nowhere close to being as good at rail -- let alone high-speed rail (where our SUCKAGE is YUUUUUGE! ;-) -- as those folks in Europe and Asia. Some of this is partly for cultural/societal reasons and some partly because our passenger rail infrastructure is a joke, and public and private coordination in improving it is mostly nonexistent. For rail, which I doubt actually pays for itself anywhere in the world (and that's fine with me), we first have to overcome our obsession with making sure it doesn't cost us big money in subsidizing it.

We mostly don't sell rail the right way, I think. I have no problem with subsidizing it -- lavishly, even -- as long as I'm assured that it's money being put to efficient use. Will it be at a high-enough rate to justify the losses we see with Amtrak (except for, maybe, Acela) and other passenger rail lines?

I'm no expert on rail, that's for sure. So if some of the folks who are could lay out for us just how we can ramp it up here in the US, I'm all eyes and ears. :-)

---

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Rail pays all over the world on may fronts.

Hitachi give rolling stock away in return for 30 year maintenance contracts.

Banks and the TOC's (train operating companies working under franchises appointed by the government) all make cash. Banks by underwriting rolling stock over a 20-30 year contract. TOC's by taking on contracts where the risk is public, the profit private and if you don't think that's possible look at the ones that have walked out of contracts.

Public private finance is well established in Europe Asia and Australasia where every thing from schools to hospitals to new rail lines are done on government contracts with a government guarantee because the risk of lending over a 30 year period is so great.