Jesus, you're dense.

Okay. Go with your definition. Why is it better to define Moore as a guy who molests teenagers than a guy who is sexually attracted to children?

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''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

Old rule of politics, when you have mud to throw that will stick, be generous and throw more than will stick, leaving it to the other side to argue, in effect, "It is not as bad as they say."

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Because it's accurate, pedophile isn't.

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

Okay. So we agree he molests teenagers (or at least, that he has in the past). Is it better for us to reward him with a Senate seat because he'll vote for the tax bill, or would it be better for Alabama and the rest of the country if somebody else (possibly even someone who will vote against the tax bill) is elected instead and we start sending a message that we don't want guys like that representing us in the Senate?

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''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

Argh. Just saw this 'lead' in my local paper/website, al.com: "Woman makes false Roy Moore claim to Post; possibly part of sting on reporters."

I wonder how many will see this and think, "this proves that women are making false claims against Roy Moore" and read no more.

Stupid as paper/website has endorsed Doug Jones.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

I've just been trying to set the record straight, as to what the accusations are and what has or hasn't been said.

1. What first drug me into this clusterfuck, was Veganard, saying that Moore admitted to dating a 14 year old, Moore never said anything remotely close to that.

2. He's never admitted and other than the accusations there is not evidence.

3. according to the woman who was supposedly molested by Moore, and her interview, she was what seemed to me contradictory in her statement and she said he never had sex with her.

As I've said before, I hope he gets elected, for a variety of reasons.

So no, we don't agree he has done any such thing, we agree he's been accused of doing something 40 years ago and not one damn thing since, because it there had been we'd have heard about it. People who are have that tendency don't stop. ymmv

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

I asked similar questions previously, and received no response. Don't hold your breath. It seems he's just trying to make out that Roy Moore 'isn't so bad as all that,' without explicitly endorsing him.

ETA: Oops, my bad. Explicit endorsement above.

Yes, you're probably right that (less well educated) people will misinterpret this headline to fit their own biased narrative. I would hope it gets enough coverage locally via other media that people will actually understand the story and the motives involved.

It speaks to the credibility of the original WaPo story, which was very well researched and corroborated (despite CruseVegas's assertions to the contrary), that they were able to sniff out this woman's false accusations and discover that she was involved with Project Veritas.

I agree that there is no evidence that Moore was a pedophile. Also, I believe, no evidence that he pursued any relations with other women once married (some evidence that he was once not a gentleman after being married).

But do you believe that he did not try to date high school girls when he was in his 30s? If so, two more questions for you:

According to Moore, how old was he when he met his wife, and how old was she?

According to Moore, when did he first see his wife and what was the occasion?

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Jane, you ignorant slut, you're so wrapped up in your own pile of ozze, you don't remember me saying I hope he got elected just so I could see your head explode, more than it already has over this?

Where's your outrage over congress's rules on reporting sexual misconduct?

Jesus you're forgetful.

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

I was one of the first to post here about that. Guess you missed that. See, unlike you I'm against sexual harassment, especially against minors, and could care less about politics. Clinton is an asshole and should have resigned and probably be in jail for rape. Conyers should resign. Franken should resign. They're all scum.

By the way, you don't think that Roy Moore's comment that "I never dated anyone without their parents' permission" (when he was in his 30s) was implicating?

Very much so. I think this will really be compelling for some who examine the evidence and maybe previously were biased against the WaPo.

Secondarily, I retract my thought that somehow this could help Roy Moore. I reflect on the one of the basic rules of media relations I learned in media training. You could call it the Nixon rule because his video was offered as a lesson: never repeat the accusation made against you. (Of course, Nixon famously said, "I am not a crook.")

For this sting to have worked for Moore, it would require telling a narrative that included "a woman went to the WaPo and said, 'Roy Moore got me pregnant when I was 14 and took me for an abortion.'" Even followed by, "it wasn't true and it was part of a sting," you just can't go around saying the first part.

Could be the sting might have worked for Veritas, but it could not have helped Moore.

I'm still waiting to hear from Veritas as to the truth: was she your employee O'Keefe? Are you veritas. Why quiet all day?

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

In the interview, I thought it was odd, for Moore to say, he had the permission of the girls parents he dated. I also got the impression, in the interview he dated some older teen girls, 18 & 19 year old girls.

I thought more contradictory, was the woman's interview, when recalling when she was 14 years old that she said he took my clothes off and was fondling me over my clothes, I mean he left some of them on and then went on to say when she asked him to stop and take her home he did.

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

Such a great story. Journalistic integrity can still exist in 2017.


That only registers a 2 on my outrage meter.

That wasn't the reason for the BS pregnancy scam. What the woman wanted was an on-tape admission by the WaPo reporter that she thought that such a story would cause Moore to lose the election. If she got that, Veritas could say "look, the WaPo admitted they want Moore to lose the election! They will do anything to make that happen!" with the subtext being "Can you trust anything the WaPo says?"

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"Go yell at an M&M"

What a gentleman... he stopped short of forcible rape on a 14 year old.

Based on a lot of the innuendo and slander that's been posted on ST, until I heard this interview, I thought he was being accused of statutory rape.

Very little fact of the accusations have been talked about and a whole lot of him being a pedophile and anyone not getting in line, is being accused of supporting said alleged and beyond bad behavior.

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

Here's a random front page from the NYT. Can you point to a story that you feel is "fake news"? Thanks, I appreciate your wisdom in this area.

Understood. See emphasized text above. We were just ruminating on the political effects in Alabama.


Edit: As to your point, it backfired om O'Keefe. LOL

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

If I recall correctly, she said that he undressed her down to your bra and underwear and was fondling her at that point. I didn't notice any inconsistencies in her recounting. I think after saying that she was undressed, she clarifies that she still had her bra and underwear on, so maybe that part led you to think she was being inconsistent. I actually found her clarification of that detail to support her believability.

From all accounts the WaPo story was very well researched and all of the details appear to be consistent, including multiple witnesses who said the accusers confided in them with the details many years prior.

So I'm puzzled when you pick on one part of one accuser's story to extrapolate a belief that Moore is innocent of these accusations, when even that supposed inconsistency isn't actually inconsistent. It seems that anyone looking at all the accusations and corroberations objectively, as many Republicans even have done, the conclusion would tend towards the allegations being credible. YMMV

Nothing very big on there. Indeed, my problem with that issue of the NYTimes is that all the news is too small to read, no matter how big I make my screen as enlarged it is too blurry to make out even the date of the issue.

Putting aside snark, I'll give you my thoughts. First, as I said above, my definition of "fake news" is my own, not Trumps. Second, my primary focus in terms of fake news on the front page of the NY Times is the "news analysis" pieces. That front page appears to be from the HW Bush era. Had they started labeling and publishing "news analysis" pieces then? They do now.

While I cannot read the articles, here are three things that I suspect are fake news:

(1) "Bush is under pressure" that is an opinion, of the type that frequently appears on the NYT front page. What is the truth of that statement? Is it, "NYT editors declare Bush is under pressure," or is it "sources in administration say Bush stated he feels under pressure" or "Nancy Pelosi says Bush is under pressure from her." I can't read the article to determine which it is, but usually what I've seen makes me think it is my first guess. In other words, the editors have inserted something that, IMO, belongs on the Op-Ed page onto the front page.

(2) "As campaign din hits peak, city voters have heard it all." So if you can read the article, do you find details about a comprehensive scientific poll about what city voters have heard? Or do the writers simply provide anecdotes of the reactions of a selected small sample of voters?

(3) "School dress codes v. sea of bare flesh" - does the article identify a school where I can find a "sea of bare flesh?" (Do not answer the question, in case Roy Moore reads this thread.}

Now I don't care much about the second two examples, they are fluff pieces that we enjoy reading in the newspaper. The first one is an example of one that often concerns me in the NYT. There was a time when Bush was under pressure on the economy -- big pressure. If this was during that time, then no problem. However, IMO the NYT often inserts these types of editorial comments to start a narrative of pressure or whatever kind of narrative it wants to create.

Anyway, lets go to today's NYT. On the front page is this: The Trump Administration's Incoherent Stance on Competition. The article goes on to discuss the net neutrality and Time Warner/ATT merger issues. Not news. It is opinion, so on front page it is fake news.

I'm pretty sure that there have been liberal and progressive voices that have lamented the NYTime's new policy of editorializing on the front page.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Coming back to this, I thought I agreed with you, to wit: I guessed that O'Keefe's motivation was more to discredit the WaPo than to help Moore.

However, according the the Atlantic's estimation:


The rest of the Atlantic piece is, as usual, very good.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev