I'm a lawyer. A family law barrister. Work in NZ and for myself. I've worked for myself for the last 3 years. I really enjoy the type of law I do as it aligns with my values, although it is stressful work. Whilst it is not the best paying area of law (I do quite a bit of legal aid work - ie work funded by the government, for people who cannot afford to pay a lawyer themselves - I work in a location which has probably some of the worst socio-economic issues in NZ), it is most definitely one of the most interesting, if you find people fascinating.

I deal with some very difficult people, whose interests I need to represent. Many of them don't take my advice very well, often having mental health, drug, alcohol, and violence issues.

Some of the stories I hear are horrendous. I have learnt how to compartmentalize my work from my outside life as I've gotten older. About 10 years or so ago, I'd often wake up at 3am thinking about cases, then lie there awake until 540am when it was time to go to the pool. There is a very real risk of suffering from vicarious trauma in the type of work I do, but you have to figure out early on that you can only do your best for clients, and to not take on board all of their issues. Otherwise you won't survive in this area of law. You definitely can't be a black and white thinker.

At law school, getting a job at a big firm is touted as the ultimate accomplishment. I'm glad I went down another path. I can't think of another job I'd rather have. Or maybe I'm just having a good day today? hah

Here in NZ, there is a real big push by the law society to make sure lawyers are looking after themselves properly. Been a few lawyers caught with meth here, one was a police prosecutor who was dealing at the same time! He was in a tutorial of mine at uni too. hah

Obviously never worked in family law where a child's safety is at risk and legal action needs to be taken urgently to remove them from that situation. ;)

It is a job, it's also a very stressful job. You basically eat what you kill and if you get unlucky you lose everything and go bankrupt

While in the Army, twice I pulled kids out of homes in the middle of the night. Once, I pulled a wife out of her house after being beaten by her husband. I signed at least a dozen warrants that resulted in arrest and confinement. So, I hear ya. But I was directing my response to Windy and the many people who allow their jobs to consume their lives. In reality, what the vast majority of us do simply is not that important.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Chiropractic for me has never been high stress. I think I was lucky to get into it at the right time in the early 1980's when it was easier to start up then than it is today. IMHO a lot of chiropractors have made it a high stress job by wanting to live the perceived "doctor lifestyle" with the all the trimmings. Its hard to compete against a system that tends to discriminate against you when it comes to coverage. I've just been very lucky by not a) trying to keep with the ortho surgeons lifestyle b) living in a small town c) having a wife that has a good job d) living comfortable but not extravagant and being content with that.

Same thing with other professionals. My accountant is the most laid back guy you'd ever know but he used to be a corporate bean counter in downtown Toronto. Packed it in and now has a hobby dairy farm and local business accounts. The guy extended his life by 10-15 yrs with that decision.

It is a skill to be able to serve your clients but not internalize their problems. First time around I was doing mostly immigration law. I was not able to make it personal. So when someone was in dire straits in Bosnia or Rwanda, etc. it tore me up.

I'm working very hard now to understand that no matter how badly someone has screwed up their own situation, it is not my own personal problem to take home. I do everything I ca to fix it, but I can't take it back for them. Just a little over a year in, so far so good.

If you can't figure that out you won't last.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I agree. One of the docs in town ended up addicted to all sorts of substances because he got stressed out trying to crank the maximum amount of volume through his office. His wife didn't help because she wanted a very expensive lifestyle. When it all crashed and burned someone else picked up his expensive house at a discount. He is recovered now and remarried a very nice lady and is doing okay with a slower pace. Another doc who made alot of money went bankrupt. Many more are divorced. Most of these professional jobs even if you are making less than average you are making more than 90 percent of population. If you get a charge out of helping people and doing your best and being happy with what you have its a pretty good gig. I liked the comment from the NZ lawyer sounds like he has the right attitude. I looked into moving to NZ at one point as I understand in many ways it is a more egalitarian society than US or Canada.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I was responding to the guy who said that his chiropractic buddy had a lot of stress

Ah...

I worked at her firm, but she was before my time. Left in 2012 for the federal government - took a big pay cut but losing the golden handcuffs was worth way more than what I gave up in pay.

As for patent prosecution, it's tough in BigLaw because of the billing pressures. You're rarely given enough billable time to fashion an adequate response, nevermind drafting a good spec. A lot of time is written off. I was fortunate to be in litigation, rather than prosecution.

And as an associate, the worst times were not when I was working insane hours. In some ways, even though I drank too much and spent too much time on planes, those were the most exciting times of my life. The worst was when the work dried up. The billable hours requirement doesn't change.

The bean counters here have made it even worse... When trying to forecast budgets vis-a-vis FTE positions, we're supposed to avoid thinking of who's actually in that job right now because a) that's too personal, and b) employees come & go, so instead we're supposed to frame the staffing for various budget programs as 'roles' instead of actual persons. Then, on top of that, when you try to apply various tracking & reporting tools as part of our new work order management system (which in turn we're supposed to be able to query/report against for budgeting purposes), everything that has a measurable cost/function associated with it is defined as an 'asset' ~ in that way, an employee/role is considered an asset essentially just like a printer or motor pool car... We need X number of asset Ys to perform service Z, and what does that cost? Managing personnel resources, indeed...

Oh, I get it. I started as a patent prosecutor in a big firm, soon switched to IP licensing and tech-heavy M&A/private equity deals until I left big firm life. I get the billing pressures, for sure. That said, in the prosecution world at least the deadlines are generally known and can be planned around. Sure, you get some clients who drop the need for a provisional app on you at the last minute because they're about to give a public speech in the morning or something, but in general you know when the next office action responses are due - the volume of work is still big, but you can plan around it better than if you're on an M&A deal where the closing deadline keeps getting shifted after you've spent 3 days & nights killing yourself trying to get ready for it.

ETA: Regarding time getting written off, you should still get credit for that time in terms of meeting billing requirements, unless you really fucked something up or are spectacularly inefficient. The write-off may bite you on realization rates, but you should still get credit for the hours worked.

I have to say the focus on billable hours in the legal profession is one of the worst things about working as a lawyer. You can feel like you are constantly clock-watching all day. It can also be a driver of inefficiency.

I think that some of the main things that can be enjoyable about working as a lawyer are:

1) the intellectual challenges that it can bring
2) helping your clients and forging a close relationship with them
3) having a collegial bar

I think some lawyers lose sight of these things and become overly concerned with how much money they can make, which often comes at the expense of some of their happiness. The constant pressure to perform and 'win'. I'm not sure how aggressive litigation can be in the USA, but I know that here you can still have a laugh with opposing counsel on cases which are still hotly contested. I read "A Civil Action" recently and I was struck by how personally the main lawyer took everything. Not a good way to work in the law imo.

I guess when you're in a high pressure job, you're going to want to unwind in some way, and that's where drugs and alcohol come in for some people...I know I was a binge drinker on weekends etc when I was at uni as I liked to party, and still do have the odd big night from time time. But what I was doing was not altogether uncommon for others my age here (which is problematic in itself).

<<I have to say the focus on billable hours in the legal profession is one of the worst things about working as a lawyer. You can feel like you are constantly clock-watching all day. It can also be a driver of inefficiency. >>


Agreed. I loved not having to bill hours when working in-house, and it's one of the most unpleasant parts of my job now that I'm 'outhouse' counsel again. Even outside the office I think in 6-minute increments (much to my wife's chagrin).


<<I think that some of the main things that can be enjoyable about working as a lawyer are:

1) the intellectual challenges that it can bring
2) helping your clients and forging a close relationship with them
3) having a collegial bar >>


I love the intellectual aspect of my job.


The only client I've ever had anything like a close relationship with was my general counsel when I was in-house. Technically speaking, nearly all my clients are corporate entities, not individuals, but even in terms of the people at the client companies - I'm not close to any of them really, even though I get along with the vast majority of them. Many of them I've only met a few times in person; most of the communication is phone and email-based.


<<I'm not sure how aggressive litigation can be in the USA...I read "A Civil Action" recently and I was struck by how personally the main lawyer took everything.>>

Surely you jest...we are the kings of scorched earth, rape-pillage-and-burn litigation. Not everyone is like that, but it's not uncommon either. I used to work across the street from the firm that represented Grace & Co. in the Civil Action saga - many friends of mine have worked there over the years. Excellent firm, but all the more Gigantic, Tremendous & Frightening LLP since they merged with a powerhouse Washington DC firm about 15 years ago.

I do miss having a glass of wine with you when I travel to DC.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Prosecutor here. Can say that dealing with criminals and seeing defendants with lengthy prior criminal histories wears on you and changes your outlook on humanity in general. When I do end up putting people in Jail, there's really no pleasure. There's also the matter of dealing with defense attorneys who in some instances, try to let dangerous people back out in to society, resulting in one instance, a new fatality.

I hurt my foot right after my deployment, and used to run to clear my head. Since I can't run, and after losing a trial I ended up drinking a little, and can see the temptation towards drinking or abusing drugs to numb the frustration. At the end of the day, legal jobs are diverse enough that one *should* be able to get away from unhealthy habits.

I agree with these posts above. I practiced IP law (patent/lit/transactions) for 15 years in law firm life (medium-sized firm). I stopped chasing the $$$ early on and built up my own client base. That gives you independence from the law firm rat race. I worked very hard, but there was no pressure, other than client needs. That was pretty nice.

I was then given an opportunity to join an in-house patent team at a great company. I took the chance and, after 2.5 years in house, I will probably never go back to law firm life. In house is just a lot more fun for patent law. Different types of stress, but still fun.

Of course, moving from Mpls, MN to Portland, OR for the in-house position was pretty nice too.

Cheers!

If the dangerous dude walked, it's because the prosecution didn't do its job, there just wan't enough evidence, or there was a dumb jury. Unless the defense violated some ethical or legal boundary.