The only way that makes sense is if the FBI tapped his phones legally, or they know another agency did so.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

That is possible, but the Cheeto-dusted Hairpiece should immediately retract his statement about Obama.

Or Obama should sue him. That would be epic.

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

Obama would have as much chance as winning that lawsuit as Sessions has of being convicted of perjury.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Yeah, but wouldn't jury selection be fun to watch!

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

lol.

Seriously, the spectacle is already as much "fun" as I can handle.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Here's a piece on the FISA Trump stuff. McCarthy is a former federal prosecutor and knows his criminal procedure stuff. He, along with everyone at National Review, were very opposed to Trump, so this is no fluff piece.

Here is the most interesting point in my mind: there have been reports that there was a FISA investigation connected in some manner with Trump during the election; and, if true, it seems unlikely that DOJ would have asked the FISA court for authorization without clearing it with the White House.

While Obama has denied he "ordered" an investigation, the question that should be asked is: were you informed of the investigation?

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

That worked out well for hillary didn't it.

Maybe trump should hire those guys he used that went to Hawaii to find out the truth on obama....what world leaders would trust this dipwad (not counting pooty and the n.korean nutjobs).

Still not seeing any evidence, but Trump has proven to be ahead of the media curve at every turn. So last week we were talking about evidence of Trump or staff colluding with Russians. Now we are talking about proof he has been tapped. It almost feels like a counter punch that would force the democrats to produce evidence, supporting the seeds he planted, or admit they have nothing. Looking like the later.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

The only thing his lies are forcing is more republicans distancing themselves. He is a train wreck!

Yes, but to date there is no evidence he was lying. And most of the more informed conversations from both sides are very careful in not saying that it didn't happen. Only that Obama didn't order it in lawyer like speak. See, it has become to easy for the left to miss the forest by looking at the trees.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Well that's Trump's MO, drop a bomb with no evidence, and then his supporters say "well no evidence he's lying". Doesn't he have the burden of proof? And he says he learned that this happened. WHy not show what he learned rather than forcing Congress to spend time and money investigating (what he apparently already knows)

See: Chaffetz statement saying illegal vote tweets are not being investigated.

He sure would do himself a lot of favors by actually having something that people could follow thru on. I guess the point is he cries wolf enough and even those willing to believe him are left wondering

Or the parties who are being asked don't want to be accused of calling the President a liar, lest they feel the wrath of the Cheeto-in-chief and/or his supports.

While you parse things effectively to achieve your objective, I think the evidence points to the fact that he was not telling the truth. Note, I did not say he was lying.

And that is a good point, but several people from the last admin who have publicly denied it, haven't really denied it. They have only said the president didn't order such a thing. Not that it didn't happen. I would think that would be an easy thing to deny if it didn't happen. Here is again what I see as possible. The system has so many people under the surveillance grid, it isn't beyond belief a political party wasn't observed for legitimate or illegitimate reasons. It is just so common there is no control over it anymore now than when people had problems with it under Bush. Only now, a president who is challenging the status quo is in office and the bureaucrats aren't liking it. Leaking is pretty much the only power that bureaucrats have to challenge a sitting president, however, the intelligence community can leak really bad things, and if they were monitoring the campaign for legitimate or illegitimate reasons, they have dirt.

What I find odd is that people who once agreed with me on the dangers or believe in a panoptical surveillance grid and police state when bush was in office are fine with it under Obama. It is wrong, and maybe/hopefully by messing with Trump we can see some real control put on it. Otherwise, we have long passed the Rubicon of any sort of gov't for the people by the people bs.

What you need to ask yourself is why is it so easy for intelligent people to believe in this. Why after our resident self serving bureaucrat slowguy commented about posting links to potentially classified information did I laugh in his face along with others. Because we lost faith in gov't institutions, and the self serving people that run them. This started long before trump. For me it started with Bush.

I hope he is right, but if he isn't; who cares? The damage is done moving us even closer to burning the whole thing down.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

I don't find it beyond belief that a court issued a warrant (and, if so, Trump really didn't think through bringing that to the surface). And I would not have a problem with that as long as the proper procedures are followed (yeah, there's wiggle room, you might judge shop a little to get the PC, but it's the way it's done). Clapper, for what it's worth and I know people dismiss him, said no such warrant was sought (from memory). Moreover, Trump as I understand it can simply pick up the phone, call the DOJ, and find out, did it happen?

I find it beyond belief that Obama personally ordered a wiretap (just as I would find it beyond belief that Trump would do so, I just give folks the benefit of the doubt in committing such high crimes, and sometimes I am disappointed). And I would think that in order to initiate an actual investigation into that claim (which is a highly serious claim), one would have to have more than Trump's 5 am tweet. He says he learned about it, gimme something to go on to back that up and I'm with ya. Otherwise it's just another fever dream as far as I am concerned.

I know I am missing stuff as there is a long list, but how many times has he tweeted with no evidence, people get in a tizzy, nothing ever gets investigated, and it's soon forgotten. Curiel. 5 Million votes. Wiretap.... there's likely a ton more, as I've forgotten. That is the MO. Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain, but jump on the pieces of raw meat he throws over the top

And I'd take issue with your classifying a lot, or most, or many, or whatever term you want to use, of folks that believe this shit as "intelligent." Are they taken for fools on the Curiel issue? The 5 million illegal vote issue? Intelligent people believed that... and what of it?

Obamas spokesman said it didn't happen, James Comey said it didn't happen. James Clapper on Morning Joe said it didn't happen. Trump said Obama had his phone tapped. What part of these people saying he did not have Trumps phone tapped is lawyer speak? Am I missing something?

I think he needs to put up or shut up. But that isn't happening. And I doubt it hurts him with his core supporters and I'll still Vote for him over any democrat.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

No they said obama didn't order a wiretap. Show where they said he or people in his staff were not surveilled or monitored.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Absolutely no reason to insert myself into this debate... LOL

But I'm refereeing this. Is that what Trump said" That "he or people in his staff were being surveilled or monitored"? He may have, I don't do twitter

But we can only know the value of a response by knowing what, exactly it is responding to.

See, it has become to easy for the left to miss the forest by looking at the trees.

How does the left react when a President makes unsubstantiated claims though? Were they supposed to just sit back and say "it didn't happen so let's move on?" Trump made the accusations and it is now up to him to prove them. The left has called for that and now the balls in Trumps court. Not sure how else they would have played it.

Trump is the one who is scrambling to prove his allegations and if they do turn out to be things he simply pulled off the Breitbart news, that is a problem. It means he is either not getting or not paying attention to his advisors (assuming someone is advising him) but more importantly, it makes it difficult to believe anything he says. Half the country doesn't believe him now, he really can't afford to distance even more.

I think Trump made a really dumb mistake and the silence from the administration seems to bear that out. They will stall and delay and Trump will never admit that he made a mistake but he goofed, and everyone knows it. His groupies don't care of course but a lot of people do.

A whole lot different than when the media does it.

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

There is a big difference! Also the medias claims seem to be true as one Trump staffer after another is found to be lying about meeting with Russians. Just a matter of time!

Weird times. Since 9-15 years ago fox was saying there is nothing to fear idnyou did nothing wrong and the left was at arms with the fisa court. This morning i heard a shownthat has a disproportionate number of left leaning callers doing the old republican and right defense of govt surveillance and trust over the mechanisms in place. As I the only one who was pissed when bush and obama did it?

http://www.foxnews.com/...s-coming-for-us.html

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

A big difference in what specifically? I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

https://www.wsj.com/articles/william-barr-one-standard-of-justice-11608318832


Barr stated that the CIA "stayed in its lane" and didn't spy on the Trump campaign before the FBI opened Crossfire Hurricane