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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
Arch Stanton wrote:
It's pretty easy to get Mexico to pay for the wall. Instead of catch-and-release, we use catch-and-put-'em-on-a-chain-gang-buildin'-da-wall. Not only does the wall get built but their is a real disincentive for getting caught.

im sure this was facetious, but in case its not... that would be more expensive than just paying skilled citizens, among other issues with the idea.

It's a great idea, but only if we torture them first.
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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [HandHeartCrown] [ In reply to ]
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HandHeartCrown wrote:
sphere wrote:
Spicer just said (I know, I know) the President's plan to force Mexico to pay for the wall is a 20% import tax.

So there's that.


Can someone explain which planet Trump is from?

Doesn't a 20% import tax mean that the American consumer is still paying for the wall? If my Mexican avocado now costs $1.00 but will cost $1.20 in the future, aren't I shelling out money to pay for the wall? Do I not buy avocados? If we all decide to not purchase Mexican goods (implying zero tax is collected), how does that address the "Mexico will pay" statement (yes, I know this is unrealistic but it's a devil's advocate argument)?


The tax incidence does not necessarily fall on the party paying the tax. It depends on the price elasticity of supply and demand. If there are good competitors for Mexican goods in the US market, then the incidence of the tax (or a high %) would fall on Mexico.
Last edited by: SH: Jan 27, 17 4:35
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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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Great Wall of China seemed to work out alright for a few thousand years right? I'd rather spend the dollars on border enforcement labor or hell even bring home 10% of the military and have them hang out down there instead of being overseas.
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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [kppolich] [ In reply to ]
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Great Wall of China seemed to work out alright for a few thousand years right?


A Wall would work out well if the idea was to keep out marauding armies. China started doing well after they opened their borders to trade.


I'd rather spend the dollars on border enforcement labor.


I think there are far better ways to deal with illegal immigrants than building a wall. Enforcing labor laws in particular but those don't get headlines even if they would work far better.


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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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I think there are far better ways to deal with illegal immigrants than building a wall. Enforcing labor laws in particular but those don't get headlines even if they would work far better.

It is strange how every few years there will be a raid on a chicken farm or small factory and then you don't hear anything again for another few years. Oklahoma has a strict law on illegals and, from what I've read a while ago, a lot of construction businesses/farmers complained about difficulty getting workers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HB1804

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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
if so, why?

"the Wall" is just the beginning of the decline of the american way of life.

Goods and services will increase exponentially.

Wage gap will then also increase exponentially.

Property prices will spiral down.

Travel for americans will become more dangerous, but probably less expensive.

More chemistry and botany teachers will get 'cancer', fulfilling trump's plan to make america great again.



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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [schroeder] [ In reply to ]
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schroeder wrote:
I think there are far better ways to deal with illegal immigrants than building a wall. Enforcing labor laws in particular but those don't get headlines even if they would work far better.

It is strange how every few years there will be a raid on a chicken farm or small factory and then you don't hear anything again for another few years. Oklahoma has a strict law on illegals and, from what I've read a while ago, a lot of construction businesses/farmers complained about difficulty getting workers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HB1804

Of course! First, we build the wall. Bam! Then we ask real nicely about how to get those guys that are great at framing a house in 104 degree weather to come here and live. It's win/win.
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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [kppolich] [ In reply to ]
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kppolich wrote:
bring home 10% of the military and have them hang out down there instead of being overseas.

I am certainly glad that wasting the military's time isn't up to you!

You'd think that the military would have better things to do than hanging out at a stupid border?! Thata so narrow minded! Also if you haven't digured it out, we could be there with military personnel and still not be able to do much to ROEs and all of the crazy rules we must abide by! You could've just said hire more boder patrol and I'd been fine with that but your statement is just plain ludicrous

Speed kills unless you have speed skills!!!
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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
vecchia capra wrote:
veganerd wrote:
CrankyNeck wrote:
With adequate manning and additional technology, I don't see how a wall wouldn't severely curtail illegal immigration from Mexico. So I say give it a go.

And what do you say to the families who own land on the border? They have to give up chunks of land they rightfully own because you want a wall? would you be willing to sell part of your property to pay for the wall too?

Families cannot own the land immediately adjacent to the border, the Federal government has an easement of around 50 ft or so on all borders. A property owner also cannot deny the government the right to access the border adjacent to their property or enter their property in pursuit of illegal border crossers and smugglers.


the plans require a lot of eminent domain seizures from families.

Nope, the courts denied landowners eminent domain rights when the CA wall was built because the US aleady controls the border and adjacent land.
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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [schroeder] [ In reply to ]
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schroeder wrote:
I think there are far better ways to deal with illegal immigrants than building a wall. Enforcing labor laws in particular but those don't get headlines even if they would work far better.

It is strange how every few years there will be a raid on a chicken farm or small factory and then you don't hear anything again for another few years. Oklahoma has a strict law on illegals and, from what I've read a while ago, a lot of construction businesses/farmers complained about difficulty getting workers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HB1804

I worked on the last workplace enforcement action just before Obama took office. Obama's DHS appointees prohibited all workplace enforcement raids, they should start up again as soon as the intelligence investigation and logistics needs are done.
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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [vecchia capra] [ In reply to ]
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vecchia capra wrote:
veganerd wrote:
vecchia capra wrote:
veganerd wrote:
CrankyNeck wrote:
With adequate manning and additional technology, I don't see how a wall wouldn't severely curtail illegal immigration from Mexico. So I say give it a go.

And what do you say to the families who own land on the border? They have to give up chunks of land they rightfully own because you want a wall? would you be willing to sell part of your property to pay for the wall too?

Families cannot own the land immediately adjacent to the border, the Federal government has an easement of around 50 ft or so on all borders. A property owner also cannot deny the government the right to access the border adjacent to their property or enter their property in pursuit of illegal border crossers and smugglers.


the plans require a lot of eminent domain seizures from families.

Nope, the courts denied landowners eminent domain rights when the CA wall was built because the US aleady controls the border and adjacent land.

are you agreeing or disagreeing that people will lose their land?

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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Initially, I say no. Yet, I haven't followed this issue closely. I just don't know how it's going to keep everyone out. All I know is that wall is going to cost close to 8 billion and the US wants Mexico to pay back that amount. Mexican officials are saying they're not going to pay. So, does that mean the US will impose a tax that you and I will pay in order to get this wall built? It just seems fishy to me. Seems more like a wall to keep people in if you ask me.
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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
vecchia capra wrote:
veganerd wrote:
vecchia capra wrote:
veganerd wrote:
CrankyNeck wrote:
With adequate manning and additional technology, I don't see how a wall wouldn't severely curtail illegal immigration from Mexico. So I say give it a go.


And what do you say to the families who own land on the border? They have to give up chunks of land they rightfully own because you want a wall? would you be willing to sell part of your property to pay for the wall too?


Families cannot own the land immediately adjacent to the border, the Federal government has an easement of around 50 ft or so on all borders. A property owner also cannot deny the government the right to access the border adjacent to their property or enter their property in pursuit of illegal border crossers and smugglers.



the plans require a lot of eminent domain seizures from families.


Nope, the courts denied landowners eminent domain rights when the CA wall was built because the US aleady controls the border and adjacent land.


are you agreeing or disagreeing that people will lose their land?

Some will not be happy about it, some will.

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"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012
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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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You mean like the land that the Governor of Calif is taking for some train that might go somewhere?
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Re: does anyone here actually think a border wall is a good idea? [dvfmfidc] [ In reply to ]
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dvfmfidc wrote:
You mean like the land that the Governor of Calif is taking for some train that might go somewhere?

do you agree with eminent domain or not? or do you have nuanced views?

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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