I didn't say it wasn't wise, he had to do it but I'd be steamed.

I'm assuming he is (was) too. I wouldn't have liked to be one of his dogs or horses when the letter came in. Hopefully talking to a NYT reporter and then interviewing her made him feel better.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Lance was a public figure under libel law, which requires him to show actual malice by the author--that is that the author had knowledge of falsity or was recklessly disregarding the the possibility of falsity. Miller is not a public figure, and cheating by a private individual in an amateur race is likely not an issue of public concern. Therefore, her burden would be much lower, likely just negligence depending on the state. Nevertheless, truth is a defense and Dan/Slowtwitch could probably prove that she cheated by a preponderance of the evidence. But getting there can be very expensive.

Source: I published an article about libel in law school and have had libel cases in my practice.

how would this work across international borders, though? would a (hypothetical) case be brought in california or british columbia?

-mike

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Or he can just pull out the communication decency act, flip to section 230, and flip the bird with both hands.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I'm not a lawyer, and I don't know where stuff said on forums by anonymous people falls legally.

Would the responsibility for what is said(libelous, illegal, slanderous etc . . , by anonymous posters, rest with the owner of the site?

I think I've seen discussions on here about past issues in this vein, that while someone may be anonymous publicly, they can be tracked down, and ID'd via the back-end.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I'm going to give you a lawyer answer - it depends.

Possibly, there could be some liability. The argument is that Dan hosts the site and, therefore, is responsible for the content. Arguably, if Dan knew or should have known there were blatantly false and slanderous statements and did nothing to remove them, he could be argued to be liable. That is a weak argument and would take some effort to get a Judge to buy it, but it is possible. Personally, I completely disagree. But, I have seen arguments like this. They usually fail, but it only take one Judge to think the other way.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

That would apply to forums and comment sections, right, but what if Dan had posted a link to one of the news articles about her, or put the entirety of one of those articles on the site? He is quoted in those articles as well. Not sure if that would change the argument. It's a different level of interaction on Dan's part than simply hosting a site where some people said somethings.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

NOTE: NO LEGAL ADVICE IS BEING GIVEN AND I AM NOT COMMENTING ON DAN'S LEGAL LIABILITY. THIS IS JUST FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES.


Correct regarding the forums and comment section.

Let's assume Dan was not quoted in the articles. If he merely put a link to the articles on ST or copied the articles on ST, and that's all he did, it would be tough to argue Dan is liable for anything.

Dan was quoted in the articles. So, Dan is potentially liable for anything he said in those articles. Assume he said something that was knowingly false, then linked ST to those articles, it could be used to increase his liability b/c now he is not just speaking to one news outlet, but spreading those comments via his own website. I don't know the legal form of ST, but assume it is an Inc or LLP, etc. That act could go from making Dan individual liable to making ST liable.


NOTE: SORRY FOR BEING REDUNDANT AND HYPER-SENSITIVE, BUT AGAIN, TO BE CLEAR, NO LEGAL ADVICE IS BEING GIVEN AND I AM NOT COMMENTING ON DAN'S LEGAL LIABILITY. THIS IS JUST FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

NOTE: SORRY FOR BEING REDUNDANT AND HYPER-SENSITIVE, BUT AGAIN, TO BE CLEAR, NO LEGAL ADVICE IS BEING GIVEN AND I AM NOT COMMENTING ON DAN'S LEGAL LIABILITY. THIS IS JUST FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES.

I'm an accountant and sometimes the lengths we go to protect ourselves is so ridiculous that I wonder if we work for clients or just work to avoid getting sued.

That said, no one does "cover your ass" like a lawyer.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I'll take Doctors for a 1000 Alex.

I'll take Doctors for a 1000 Alex.

The only thing I go to a Doctor for is to treat my cramps from signing so many of their waivers...

They're not waivers, they are acknowledgements (you really don't think the medical industry would be allowed to get liability waivers, the trial bar would never let that happen).

From the episode shrink wrap.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Efq6JQ0tqgU

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

That would apply to forums and comment sections, right, but what if Dan had posted a link to one of the news articles about her, or put the entirety of one of those articles on the site? He is quoted in those articles as well. Not sure if that would change the argument. It's a different level of interaction on Dan's part than simply hosting a site where some people said somethings.


I don't know if this is relevant, but the NYT article came well-after the blow-up here on the forum, and indeed the forensic work that some forum members were involved with that more or less confirmed Julie Miller cheated. That all happened in the weeks and months after IMC happened, and outside of the triathlon community, the story had not really gone public.

That's when Dan stepped in and shut down at least one thread - that was well before the NYT piece.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Did anyone notice the follow up to the NYT piece last week?
Shows video from FinisherPix - I'm not sure why this didn't emerge earlier (or did it? I wasn't such an ardent follower of the drama).

Probably not interesting as more evidence - the available evidence had already moved the the issue well beyond contestability. It does at least give a better indication of where/how she cheated, which some people were still curious about. She simply skipped the first lap of the marathon, rejoining the race as if she were on her second lap.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/28/sports/julie-miller-ironman-video-offers-proof-that-disqualified-triathlete-cut-course.html?smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur

I think the author enjoyed writing the closing line:

"I emailed Miller to tell her about the video and ask her if she could explain why it shows her passing the second camera just once. She did not respond."

try to keep up ;)

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

Truth is a defence in these things so the cheating comments are fair game since its backed up by data, video and the fact thatcshe is suspended but making fun of her appearence is not so good. Dan has a duty to moderate the forum to keep it to the facts in this type of a situation.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
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