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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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Don't normally post Breitbart, but here is an interesting article with Bret Easton Ellis (author of American Psycho). Not only does he say Patrick Bateman would support Trump (well duh if you read the book), but a bunch of people in Hollywood he won't name said they are voting for trump even if they wont admit it publicly. I'm telling you, people wont' admit they do it. Its like a guilty pleasure. I also heard several Bernie supporters in the last week say they may pull for trump, while others said they would stay home. Only hardcore dems who happened to have been supporting Bernie sanders have said they will vote for Hillary.

What does this mean? It means we have no idea until the conventions are done whether Trump will get his ass handed to him in a landslide. But we do know Cruz won't likely win unreliable votes. Only dyed in the wool conservatives and people who hate hillary so much they see cruz as the lesser of two evils will vote for him.

http://www.breitbart.com/...would-support-trump/


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:

But, Cruz still has a shot. I hope not, but I understand why he stays in. If everyone else had dropped out earlier, he likely would be the front runner.


Yes, if everyone else had dropped out he would be the front runner in a one man race. But I think you meant "if everyone else but Trump had dropped out earlier", which may not be accurate. I don't think all the Kasich, Rubio, Bush supporters would have automatically supported Cruz. He is more polarizing than Trump is. The race would be closer though.
Last edited by: Harbinger: Apr 26, 16 1:42
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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
TheForge wrote:
Damn. I know you like ink and know you are one of those trump voters that won't admit it. But damn.

Seriously of all the candidAtes after Rand, kasich was the most reasonable. But I can't like justify in my mind him being selected he hasn't won any state but his own.


I would agree with you if the entire primary process wasn't such bullshit. It should be on one day across the country. Otherwise, a shit-ton of votes don't even count.

Also, consider this:

In WI, 1,072,699 people voted in the GOP primary. 531,129 voted for Cruz. He got 36 delegates.

In NY, 868,987 people voted in the GOP primary. 524,932 voted for Trump. He got 89 delegates.

How the fuck does that make any sense???

Cause in heavily blue states, GOP votes matter more.
There's a nice story that in one Brooklyn or Queens district Cruz got the delegate because he got 1 vote. Not won by one, he got the single GOP vote cast in that district...

In OK, Trump got 130k for 13 delegates. 10,000 votes per delegate
In Hawaii, he got 5600 votes for 11 delegates...

So Hawaiians are 20 times more important to Trump than Oklahomians.

And since it's a primary, the GOP can make up the rules.
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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [scorpio516] [ In reply to ]
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scorpio516 wrote:
JSA wrote:
TheForge wrote:
Damn. I know you like ink and know you are one of those trump voters that won't admit it. But damn.

Seriously of all the candidAtes after Rand, kasich was the most reasonable. But I can't like justify in my mind him being selected he hasn't won any state but his own.


I would agree with you if the entire primary process wasn't such bullshit. It should be on one day across the country. Otherwise, a shit-ton of votes don't even count.

Also, consider this:

In WI, 1,072,699 people voted in the GOP primary. 531,129 voted for Cruz. He got 36 delegates.

In NY, 868,987 people voted in the GOP primary. 524,932 voted for Trump. He got 89 delegates.

How the fuck does that make any sense???


Cause in heavily blue states, GOP votes matter more.
There's a nice story that in one Brooklyn or Queens district Cruz got the delegate because he got 1 vote. Not won by one, he got the single GOP vote cast in that district...

In OK, Trump got 130k for 13 delegates. 10,000 votes per delegate
In Hawaii, he got 5600 votes for 11 delegates...

So Hawaiians are 20 times more important to Trump than Oklahomians.

And since it's a primary, the GOP can make up the rules.

No. Not for the primary, it doesn't. That's my point. I know the GOP makes up the rules. Again, my point is, it is a broken system.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [TheForge] [ In reply to ]
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And someone could choose Sarah Palin for their VP and totally change the game again!
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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [TheForge] [ In reply to ]
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I was going to post yesterday that I didn't have a problem with what Kasich and Cruz are doing. Kasich is my favorite of the GOP bunch.

But then this morning NPR was interviewing either Kasich himself or his campaign manager or something, and was asked if he thought he could block Trump for getting all the delegates today. And he replied to the effect of, "I wouldn't call it 'blocking.' Trump may win the delegates assigned by the beauty contest, and the rest of the delegates will go to us." And he said the term "beauty contest" in a sneering tone.

It rubbed me the wrong way. Referring sarcastically to the democratic process that way.
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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [trail] [ In reply to ]
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His behavior like that of Cruz and the rest of the party has been disgusting.

I would much rather it be somebody else, but the behavior of the party and the losers has been we want your votes and the will of the people should be upheld when it is in line with us. I'm fine with a party choosing their own candidate based on their weird rules, but that isn't how they sell it to the people. Had it been mitt Romney, bush, Rubio, kasich where trump is now, they would be playing the will of the people card against Cruz, period. Cruz would be arguing the same 1235 argument and the party wouldn't. They would be saying the people spoke and the party is behind the people.

With that said, I'm becoming more convinced this is just noise. More and more party insiders are taking that it belongs to them. Trump is scoring big and Cruz is getting hurt with trumps calls about the rigged system and Cruz being too comfortable with it. Party insiders are swallowing the tough pill that what they think is best for the party isn't online with too much of the public and the obvious blowback that woukd occur.

His isn't the 1800's nor is it 78. Both parties have sold the public on the legitimacy of primaries. Swooping in and taking it away would basically delegitimize it.


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [TheForge] [ In reply to ]
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The real issue to me is why we let two parties which are basically a couple of private clubs wield so much influence in our form of government.
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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [Moonrocket] [ In reply to ]
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And someone could choose Sarah Palin for their VP and totally change the game again!

No one would could possibly think of adding Sarah Palin as VP running mate and the only game she would change is to cement a losing ticket.

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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [Rambler] [ In reply to ]
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I agree there, but that is just how it is. They've managed to divide and conquer the electorate and even if there weren't inertia towards the status quo, there are no viable option. The next largest party, the libertarians (I was an exec officer in), can't get its act together. Fighting more with itself than towards a common goal. Then there is money. The way our system is designed, it just doesn't promote multiple parties coalescing to a common goal even in the sort term. I do disagree with the fundamental structure of our governance system. I would rather see 100 parties than 2, with a virtual cage match of ideals with strong personalities not beholden to each other negotiating and siding with each other in delicate alliances.


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [Rambler] [ In reply to ]
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The real issue to me is why we let two parties which are basically a couple of private clubs wield so much influence in our form of government.

Voters let them do it because that is what the voters want. There have been a lot of Independents running in the past and they aren't taken seriously. Other anti-establishment guys like Ron Paul are portrayed as fringe candidates by the mainstream parties and media but the people play along and vote for the candidate the party decides they like.

It's up to the voters to change the system, the system is perfectly happy maintaining the status quo.

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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
And someone could choose Sarah Palin for their VP and totally change the game again!

No one would could possibly think of adding Sarah Palin as VP running mate and the only game she would change is to cement a losing ticket.

I wasn't really referring to her personally, but someone could choose a total dog VP that would sway voters even more.

McCain's chances would have been much higher with a respectable VP.

I'm just saying there are more rounds to this fight. Imagine if Trump chooses a VP just as volatile and inexperienced as he is? That could further sway voters.

Honestly if Kasich and Cruz really didn't want Trump Cruz should bow out. He has no shot at winning the general anyway and he should push his supporters to Kasich who has the best shot at actually winning- but we know that will not happen.
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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [Moonrocket] [ In reply to ]
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Honestly if Kasich and Cruz really didn't want Trump Cruz should bow out. He has no shot at winning the general anyway and he should push his supporters to Kasich who has the best shot at actually winning- but we know that will not happen.

Doing "what's best for the party" is a slogan repeated by those not running. The candidates do what is best for themselves, full stop.

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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [Rambler] [ In reply to ]
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The real issue to me is why we let two parties which are basically a couple of private clubs wield so much influence in our form of government.

Can not tell you how many times I've thought this when hearing all the whining about "My voting rights" and "I'm being disfranchised" and blah blah blah. What the hell is wrong with you people you're not voting in anything more then who's going to be president of you private club that wins the opportunity to represent your club in a national election.

You have no "Voting rights" in a primary. If the parties want to they can ignore all the voters and pick Gumby as their Representative for president. The parties do not show up in the constitution or any laws...their private freakin' clubs that have done an excellent job selling their persona as the government.

~Matt

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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [MJuric] [ In reply to ]
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Again, that is fine, so parties can fund primaries going forward? THey should be anyways, but any legitimacy of taxpayer funded primaries would be lost if they just choose who they want. End of story.

That is what I'm ultimately getting at. The legitimacy of primaries is they lead people to believe they decide who the party chooses. In most cases, the party vets the candidates and is able to steer the vote to their preferred candidates, but in this case, they haven't. Now they are telling voters their votes don't count.

Libertarians (at least in florida) do not hold a primary unless required by law (state law requires multiple candidates for state office eliminate in primary), but respect the primary selection in those few cases. National office candidates are selected via state conventions (open to all registered libertarians) and we did not feel that it was appropriate for the public to fund our candidate selection process.

If a party wants to pic their guy regardless of the votes cast, they need to do away with the costly primary system funded by taxpayers, or fund it themselves.


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [Harbinger] [ In reply to ]
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Harbinger wrote:
JSA wrote:

But, Cruz still has a shot. I hope not, but I understand why he stays in. If everyone else had dropped out earlier, he likely would be the front runner.


Yes, if everyone else had dropped out he would be the front runner in a one man race. But I think you meant "if everyone else but Trump had dropped out earlier", which may not be accurate. I don't think all the Kasich, Rubio, Bush supporters would have automatically supported Cruz. He is more polarizing than Trump is. The race would be closer though.
. Cruz has no shot. Trump beat them in 5 states tonight and got more percentage of the vote than Cruz and Kasich put together. They are done!
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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
Trump cannot beat Hillary. Period. Cruz would be beaten even worse. Only Kasich can win and I am pulling for him.
That's your most rational course of action at this point. But I think Kasich's chances of getting nominated are close to zero. The Republicans are going down in flames this year, as they richly deserve. They have cultivated the anti-intellectual element for years, endorsing mysticism and bigotry over reason, and now that element is taking over the party.

It's hard to believe that not long ago Hillary appeared to be a god-awful candidate, but the Republicans have managed to make her look like the most acceptable of the leading major-party candidates. Now THAT takes real talent!

BTW, this place certainly looks different from the last time I posted here.

-----
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

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Re: Cruz and Kasich publicly colluding - SERIOUSLY [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
The real issue to me is why we let two parties which are basically a couple of private clubs wield so much influence in our form of government.

Voters let them do it because that is what the voters want. There have been a lot of Independents running in the past and they aren't taken seriously. Other anti-establishment guys like Ron Paul are portrayed as fringe candidates by the mainstream parties and media but the people play along and vote for the candidate the party decides they like.

It's up to the voters to change the system, the system is perfectly happy maintaining the status quo.

I've come to the conclusion that from a democratic and governance standpoint a parliamentary system would be better than what we have in the USA today.

But I have a hope that President Trump will improve the functioning of our our executive/legislative system by eliminating gridlock and polarization politics. He might do this by being a pragmatic leader, making bipartisan deals that actually make small incremental improvements. After eight years of action-less, polarizing rhetoric from the President, he doesn't have to do much to remind voters what effective governance is and thus set the bar higher.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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