There was a federal state of emergency declared on Saturday. They could have gotten there sooner than they did.

This is the Saturday before the levee broke, right? See any potential problems with that?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I guess you're saying that since no one knew the levees were going to break, no one could have known a large Natl Guard response would be needed. But hell, the Coast Guard must have known it was going to be bad given their response.

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It would seem so...But, remember, they got their equipment out of the area just like they would normally do with a major storm approaching...Similar to the US Navy sending it's ships out to sea and away from the harbors and ports to escape the storms damage. I don't believe it was in anticipation of any resuceing being required. They just happend to be the ones best positioned when the need was there.

I guess you're saying that since no one knew the levees were going to break, no one could have known a large Natl Guard response would be needed.

There's that, and there's the consideration of what would have happened to those 40-70,000 Natl Guard troops- and their supplies, and their equipment- had they rushed right in like lightning after the hurricane. (Somehow. Still not sure how that's supposed to have happened, anyway.)

But hell, the Coast Guard must have known it was going to be bad given their response.

It doesn't matter, jhc. OK, let's assume everyone "knows" it's going to be bad. How bad? In what way? You have to accurately assess the situation before you commit tens of thousands of people to fixing the situation. The Coast Guard doesn't have to do that because, as a first response team, their response is pretty much the same, no matter how bad the disaster is.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Thoughts:

(1) This is the Coast Guard's mission. It is not the mission of the Department of Defense. "Semper Paratus"--Always Prepared is their motto.

(2) Sending federal troops into a state univited requires permission of the Governor or invocation of the Insurrection Act. The Governor was slow to respond and the President was considering, but ultimately rejected, using the Insurrection Act.

(3) Other services, including the National Guard, were also plucking people from rooftops and saving lives within hours of storm passage. The incessant media focus on the Superdome and the Convention Center took away from this story reaching the masses.

(4) The U.S. Coast Guard is a great service with great people who have historically performed great acts of heroism. My father is a retired USCGR O-6, and I am proud to have trained with and known a number of Coast Guard aviators. "Iron men in wooden ships."

"Iron men in wooden ships."

I think the term is actually "wooden boats." ;)

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Thanks, JHC, for the recognition. Last number I heard was something in the range of 24,000 people assisted by the Coast Guard. To put that in perspective (as CNN did the other night), Air Station New Orleans (where Coast Guard helos fly from), in the last week, has doubled the number of rescues it has made in the last 50 years. That's staggering. Like I said in Kitty's "Where are the choppers?" thread, most people do not understand the magnitude of rescuing that many people, most by helicopter. Clearly the media has been slow to understand. They've been focused on the other military services and their response, all the while orange and white helos are buzzing all around, doing what we are trained to do and do every day. It's taken a week for media outlets to recognize what we've been up to. Better late than never.

How, or why, was the Coast Guard response so good? The answer is complex. It starts with the Coast Guard's motto, Semper Paratus (Always Ready). The Coast Guard trains and operates every day for now, not something in the future. That means having people who know what they're doing, having the equipment to do the job, and the leadership and authority to get the job done.

Two, leadership. The chain of command (Commandant to Area Commander to District Commander to Group and Air Station Commanders, and right down to the pilots and boat coswains themselves) in the Coast Guard is designed so that the missions can be conducted in the most efficient and effective manner allowed. In this case, many different levels of the chain of command contributed to the success. First, someone (likely the District Commander) re-positioned the staff units to Baton Rouge and St. Louis, and as far away as Norfolk, VA, and pre-positioned aircraft and boats (and crews) in safe zones. This allowed operations to continue uninterrupted, and allowed for a response as soon as weather allowed. Second, lower-level commanders, those in charge of air ops and, later, boat ops, simply did what they do every day- they organized and executed search plans. Finally, the Area Commander and leadership at HQ got involved helping both to respond to the storm and respond to the Coast Guard's own people. (Let's not forget that all of the Coast Guard personnel involved likely lost their own homes, belongings, etc., yet selflessly continued with their jobs)

Third, Coast Guard people are extraordinary. You will find no other service, military or otherwise, with people as dedicated and competent in their jobs. Period.

As for the suggestion that the Commandant is a political appointee, he is not. The Commandant is the only officer in the Coast Guard to hold the rank of Admiral. Such a rank takes a career of roughly 30+ years. A pool of candidates for promotion to Admiral (and, hence, assignment as Commandant) is developed from eligible Vice Admirals (of which there are four). Yet while the Commandant is hired from within, the Secretary is ultimately responsible for the selection, which infers some level of political involvement. I have no idea the extent politics plays in the selection and appointment, but I do know that every Commandant comes to the job with an incredible amount of real life Coast Guard experience. His political affiliation/views are a separate matter entirely.

Finally, Rear Admiral Duncan, the Commander of the 8th District (headquartered in New Orleans), happens to be my former boss. I was his Aide. He married my wife and me. When he got assigned to the 8th District we all wondered how an Admiral who had spent his career everywhere but the 8th District could get such an assignment. His assignment was for two years, and was due to expire this past summer. He got extended a year, and is now in charge of Coast Guard operations for Katrina. Ironic? Perhaps. Then Commander Duncan was Group Commander in Charleston, SC, when Hurricane Hugo devastated that city, and he commanded Coast Guard operations for that storm and response. Turns out his assignment to New Orleans was a perfect choice.

Semper Paratus,

Todd

Thanks for the reply Todd... no doubt the CG did an admirable job.

I do have a thought for all those who have basically replied that the CG are the first responders, everyone else comes in later - what happens if an inland city gets destroyed?

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what happens if an inland city gets destroyed?

By what?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Well, the CG has authority to respond to inland disasters as well. Having assets available is a different story, but we have the legal authority.

Bottom line, though, the National Response Plan gives the answer(s). Involvement by local, state, and federal responders, depending on the event.

Todd

terrorist? tornado? earthquake? asteroid? Godzilla?

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terrorist? tornado? earthquake?

None of those are likely to destroy a city, or devestate it to the degree that NO has been devestated. (With the exception of a major earthquake, but I don't know of any inland cities at serious risk of that.) First response in those situations is likely going to be handled by the people with the assets in place for it- state and local authorities.

asteroid? Godzilla?

If Godzilla rides an asteroid into Topeka, I say we write the city off.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

terrorist with nuke?

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terrorist with nuke?

Caveat: I haven't seen the federal plan for this, and I'm sure one exists, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it called for first response, or something close to it, from federal agencies.

That said, the reality of the situation is that the first responders are still likely to be state and/or local teams, simply because they're already in place, more or less.

The actual reality of the situation is that if a city is destroyed by whatever method, it takes time to respond to it adequately, and there's just no way around that. If you think we can mobilize some sort of massive federal response to immediately show up and start picking up the pieces after a nuclear bomb, I'm sorry, but you're dreaming.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Coasties did a superb job, no doubt. The Navy/Marine Corps team (and Mexican marines, can you believe it?) and other countries stepped in to give them a hand:







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050909-N-4374S-008 D'iberville, Miss. (Sept. 9, 2005) - U.S. Navy Sailors assigned to the amphibious assault ship USS Bataan (LHD 5) and Mexican Marines, carry a log over their shoulders, as they remove debris at D'iberville Elementary School, in support of Hurricane Katrina Relief efforts. The school will be used as shelter, providing food and medicine for the evacuees. The Navy's involvement in the humanitarian assistance operations is being led by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), in conjunction with the Department of Defense. U.S. Navy Photograph by Photographer's Mate 2nd Class Michael Sandberg (RELEASED)

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050909-N-8154G-232 Gulf of Mexico (Sept. 9, 2005) - The Dutch frigate HMS Van Amstel (F-831) sits anchored off the Mississippi coast, while assisting with Hurricane Katrina relief efforts along the Gulf Coast. The Dutch and Mexican Navies, have sent ships to assist joint U.S. military forces in the area. The Navy's involvement in the humanitarian assistance operation is being lead by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), in conjunction with the Department of Defense. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer’s Mate Airman Jeremy L. Grisham (RELEASED)

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050909-N-8154G-220 Gulf of Mexico (Sept. 9, 2005) - The amphibious assault ship USS Bataan (LHD 5), background, sits anchored off the Mississippi coast, along with the Dutch frigate HMS Van Amstel (F-831). The mutli-national force is participating in hurricane relief efforts along the Gulf Coast. The Navy's involvement in the humanitarian assistance operation is being lead by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), in conjunction with the Department of Defense. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer’s Mate Airman Jeremy L. Grisham (RELEASED)

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050909-N-8154G-180 Gulf of Mexico (Sept. 9, 2005) – The Mexican Navy amphibious ship Papaloapan (P-411) sits off the coast of Mississippi preparing to assist with Hurricane Katrina relief efforts along the Gulf Coast. The Mexican and Dutch Navy, have sent ships to augment joint U.S. military forces in the area. The Navy's involvement in the humanitarian assistance operation is being lead by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), in conjunction with the Department of Defense. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer’s Mate Airman Jeremy L. Grisham (RELEASED)

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050909-N-8154G-168 Gulf of Mexico (Sept. 9, 2005) – The Mexican Navy amphibious ship Papaloapan (P-411) sits off the coast of Mississippi preparing to assist with Hurricane Katrina relief efforts along the Gulf Coast. The Mexican and Dutch Navy, have sent ships to augment joint U.S. military forces in the area. The Navy's involvement in the humanitarian assistance operation is being lead by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), in conjunction with the Department of Defense. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer’s Mate Airman Jeremy L. Grisham (RELEASED)

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050909-N-4757S-098 New Orleans (Sept. 9, 2005) – Search and Rescue Swimmer, Aviation Warfare Specialist 2nd Class T.J. O'Dell, assigned to the "Dusty Dogs" of Anti-Submarine Squadron Seven Five (HS-75), offloads relief supplies from an SH-60F Seahawk helicopter for the residents in a rural area near the city of New Orleans. The Navy's involvement in the humanitarian assistance operation is being lead by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), in conjunction with the Department of Defense. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer's Mate 3rd Class Craig R. Spiering (RELEASED)

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050909-N-4757S-021 New Orleans (Sept. 9, 2005) – Search and Rescue Swimmer, Aviation Warfare Specialist 2nd Class T.J. O'Dell, assigned to the "Dusty Dogs" of Anti-Submarine Squadron Seven Five (HS-75), returns to an SH-60F Seahawk helicopter after speaking with residents in a rural area near the city of New Orleans. The Navy's involvement in the humanitarian assistance operation is being lead by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), in conjunction with the Department of Defense. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer's Mate 3rd Class Craig R. Spiering (RELEASED)

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050909-N-4374S-009 D'iberville, Miss. (Sept. 9, 2005) - U.S. Navy Sailors assigned to the amphibious assault ship USS Bataan (LHD 5) and Mexican Marines as they remove debris at D'iberville Elementary School, in support of Hurricane Katrina Relief efforts. The school will be used as shelter, providing food and medicine for the evacuees. The Navy's involvement in the humanitarian assistance operations is being led by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), in conjunction with the Department of Defense. U.S. Navy Photograph by Photographer's Mate 2nd Class Michael Sandberg (RELEASED)

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050909-N-1467R-077 D’Iberville, Miss. (Sept. 9, 2005) – A U.S. Marine assigned to 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU-11) stationed at Camp Pendleton, Calif., cuts a fallen tree as part of the cleaning efforts st D’Iberville Elementary School. The school will be used as shelter, providing food and medicine for the evacuees. The Navy and Marines’ involvement in the humanitarian assistance operations is being led by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), in conjunction with the Department of Defense. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer’s Mate Airman Pedro A. Rodriguez (RELEASED)

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050909-N-1467R-052 D’Iberville, Miss. (Sept. 9, 2005) – A U.S. Sailors assigned to the amphibious assault ship USS Bataan (LHD 5) and Mexican Sailors assigned to the amphibious ship Papaloapan (P-411) work together to clean D’Iberville Elementary School. The school will be used as shelter, providing food and medicine for the evacuees. The Navy's involvement in the humanitarian assistance operations is being led by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), in conjunction with the Department of Defense. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer’s Mate Airman Pedro A. Rodriguez (RELEASED)

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[reply][b]terrorist? tornado? earthquake?[/b]

None of those are likely to destroy a city, or devestate it to the degree that NO has been devestated. (With the exception of a major earthquake, but I don't know of any inland cities at serious risk of that.)[/reply]

If the New Madrid fault goes again, we could see St Louis and/or Memphis literally disappear.

I got a buddy who's a structural engineer - does soil testing for a living. Sez Memphis is sitting on about 1800 feet of clay. If it's hit by a major earthquake (and the New Madrid holds the record for the continental US), all that clay effectively turns to quicksand....

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