- Rationale proved to be totally false.

- Country headed for civil war and/or Islamic rule rather than secular democracy.

Your points?



Totally false? Hardly. You are forgetting why we went to war. It was because UN Resolution 1441 needed to be enforced. Let's say you were stopped by the police with all your buddies in the car. They asked to search the vehicle for drugs (you had none). Would you die and get your buddies' killed to prove your point of privacy? I bet not.

As for Civil War, you really need to stop watching CNN so much and start reading books and talking to military who have come back. Perhaps (2) countries might be the solution. Who knows? But, at least now they have A CHOICE to decide for themselves......

No, you can not support the troops and not support the cause.If your wife screwed your neighbor, would you go to confession and then call it a day?

Is that is what as known as an analogy?

WTF does:No, you can not support the troops and not support the cause.

have to do with:If your wife screwed your neighbor, would you go to confession and then call it a day?

Get ahold of yourself man, you're cracking up!

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

We lost over 58,000 US military in Vietnam and never accomplished a damn thing.

So by your logic (can't support the troops if you don't support the cause), this means you don't support Vietnam veterans. I'm shocked! What are you? - some kind of liberal, leftist, Michael Moore lovin turd?

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

-- Totally false? Hardly. You are forgetting why we went to war. It was because UN Resolution 1441 needed to be enforced.

Laughable. Bush Jr. was scheming this one way before the 1441 showdown.

Would you die and get your buddies' killed to prove your point of privacy? I bet not.

If I refuse consent, the cops all of a sudden get to shoot me dead?

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see where you pointed out how the war in Iraq actually benefits the US.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

As for Civil War, you really need to stop watching CNN so much and start reading books and talking to military who have come back.

or he could look to the National Intelligence Council and its report to Bush:

(09-15) 22:55 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --

The National Intelligence Council presented President Bush this summer with several pessimistic scenarios regarding the security situation in Iraq, including the possibility of a civil war there before the end of 2005.

In a highly classified National Intelligence Estimate, the council looked at the political, economic and security situation in the war-torn country and determined that -- at best -- stability in Iraq would be tenuous, a U.S. official said late Wednesday, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

At worst, the official said, were "trend lines that would point to a civil war." The official said it "would be fair" to call the document "pessimistic."

The intelligence estimate, which was prepared for Bush, considered the window of time between July and the end of 2005. But the official noted that the document draws on intelligence community assessments from January 2003, before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and the subsequent deteriorating security situation there.

This latest assessment was performed by the National Intelligence Council, a group of senior intelligence officials that provides long-term strategic thinking for the entire U.S. intelligence community.

Acting CIA Director John McLaughlin and the leaders of the other intelligence agencies approved the intelligence document, which runs about 50 pages.

The estimate appears to differ from the public comments of Bush and his senior aides who speak more optimistically about the prospects for a peaceful and free Iraq. "We're making progress on the ground," Bush said at his Texas ranch late last month.

A CIA spokesman declined to comment Wednesday night.

The document was first reported by The New York Times on its Web site Wednesday night.

It is the first formal assessment of Iraq since the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate on the threat posed by fallen Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

A scathing review of that estimate released this summer by the Senate Intelligence Committee found widespread intelligence failures that led to faulty assumptions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

LMAO....they are SUPPOSED to give pessimistic views!!!!

Best to prepared for worst case scenarios.

Sounds like your a MM fan. Do you REALLY think the world would be a safer place if Gore were in office? Do you really think that Kerry could have led the country after the invasion?

Our elected officials are paid to make choices. I don't agree with many of their choices, but I do support them after they are made......

LMAO....they are SUPPOSED to give pessimistic views!!!!
Best to prepared for worst case scenarios.

Agreed, when are we going to start preparing? We've been chasing our tail due to our failure to plan for too long in Iraq.

Sounds like your a MM fan. Nope. Do you REALLY think the world would be a safer place if Gore were in office? Pretty much the same from a global/world perspective I'd guess. From a U.S. perspective, yes - he would not have distracted our mission to wipe out terrorism with some stupid foray into Iraq. Do you really think that Kerry could have led the country after the invasion? Do you define what Bush&Co. are doing as "leading"?

Our elected officials are paid to make choices. I don't agree with many of their choices, but I do support them after they are made...... Why? are you stupid or something?

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

We went to war in Iraq because of the WMDs that we "knew" were there, according to Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rumsfeld, etc. If, as you contend, we went specifically to enforce 1441, then why did we ask the weapons inspectors to leave so we could commence military action? http://www.usatoday.com/...nspectors-iraq_x.htm

And you still haven't indicated why you think the war is a "success." Are you waiting for Sean Hannity (or insert your favorite right-wing liar here) to tell you what to say?

What is silly is that people continue to defend this administration. They told us they had specifics about the WMDs - where they were lcoated, what stockpiles they had, that there could be mushroom clouds in 45 minutes. All of it was bullshit. They cherry picked the scary stuff from the intelligenc reports, but ignored the parts that cast doubt on the scary stuff. That was done, yes, deliberately, because they wanted war in Iraq.

Do you deny this? What part don't you get?

What is silly is that people continue to defend this administration. They told us they had specifics about the WMDs - where they were lcoated, what stockpiles they had, that there could be mushroom clouds in 45 minutes. All of it was bullshit. They cherry picked the scary stuff from the intelligenc reports, but ignored the parts that cast doubt on the scary stuff. That was done, yes, deliberately, because they wanted war in Iraq.

Do you deny this? What part don't you get?

>>>>>>>>>>

How uneducated are you on the course of events? Are you 18?

I hate to start name calling...but @$%@#$ forget that the UN had ALREADY found them to be in breach of 1441 before this whole thing started. That is why they passed 1441. So, the real question should be....where they go rather than a statement like "he lied to us". That's just pointing fingers rather than looking at the process of how we got there.

Folks will always want to know where the "smoking gun" was hidden or would enjoy seeing a barrack full of nukes, but that isn't going to happen in mass quanities b/c they didn't have enough materials.

Did the facts change during the course of events? You betcha. The who/want/why and how should be investigated. Unfortunatley, the official that Bubba elected ditched town and won't answer any of the questions. That was before Dubya's tenure.

I have no problem pointing fingers and lying blame, but this Bush bashing crap is ridiculous.......

http://www.whitehouse.gov/...3/02/20030205-1.html

I think he is 18. Maybe 20.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Your posts barely make any sense. This is your last chance to try and ACTUALLY RESPOND to my points:

1. The Bush administration said they knew specifically where the WMDs were, what they had, etc. Where did they go?

2. Why did we kick the UN Weapons inspectors out of Iraq before they could complete the inspections that were underway (since you rely on 1441)?

last chance.

C'mon, spineless Tim. Can't you respond to my questions?

My last post on this thread. I enjoy debate...but not when the other hasn't done his homework and won't directly respond to questions I've raised, but hypocritical enough to point the finger at me.

1) They never said they knew "specifically" anything......go listen to Colin's talk at the UN for your answers. I've provided a link in my post, but yet you haven't provided a link to anything you've said to back it up.

Where'd they go? I dunno, we blew-up all the fuckers that hid them.

2) Sigh...you've got it all wrong.

Good night.

Goodnight, ignorant moron. Sleep well.

No oil in Darfur.

My last post on this thread.

Good, now please go lobby your beloved leader to follow your example and extricate himself from situations where he has gotten in way over his head.

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

mopdahl wrote

The truth about how many Iraq civilians have died in the war, or what the injuries to our troops really are/look like.

Public beheadings, forced rapes, stonings--these are regular occurrences in our allies Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

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Lets see! Nobody has a uniform, everybody has a gun. Those civilians must have connected the battery, before the caps on the car bomb when they died.

Smart bombs are only as smart, as who guides them.

The sad truth is every war has high civilian deaths.

I missed it on CNN.